Earthbound & Mother 3 Q&A

[Quibster]

Here's some questions I have, mainly about Giygas and Pokey Minch. Please provide sources and/or in-game screenshots. It would help clear things up a bunch.

Did Giygas retain his passive mind manipulation whilst being contained in the Devil's Machine, and in his unsealed form?

Was Pokey really under the influence of Giygas during their battle with Ness and Friends, and during the events of Mother 3? After all, he literally created an empire themed after himself.

Why didn't unsealed Giygas affect or influence Ness and Friends in his Unsealed and Sealed form with his Mind Manipulation?

Has Giygas and/or Giegue ever used their mind manipulation abilities in a fight before?

Why weren't all of the NPC's in Earthbound Zero and Earthbound affected by Giygas? Does he selectively choose who to manipulate and influence?

Can we get Porky a Sealed Key? He'd practically be invincible.

Estimated or supposed time when CRTs will be released?

 

[Quibster]

Please give me a better explanation than "lolTOTU".

Edited.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

sigh

I'll answer soon ok? Need to gather crap up and stuff.

edit: Since my laptop decided to be a butthole and hakai literally everything I've spent my time on, I'll unfortunately have to reply to this tomorrow.

 

[Quibster]

No problem.

 

[Madotsuki24]

Q: Did Giygas retain his passive mind manipulation whilst being contained in the Devil's Machine, and in his unsealed form?

A: Yes, that's his whole character, he mind controls people and corrupts them with conceptual evilness, that's why every enemy tries to kill Ness, when you kill Giygas at the end of the game, the enemies do not attack you any more, because Giygas died and since Giygas died, evil does not exist any more, so no one attacks you in the game and every single person in the world turn good and cannot be bad, best ending in a fictional story ever!!!! >W<

Q: Was Pokey really under the influence of Giygas during their battle with Ness and Friends, and during the events of Mother 3? After all, he literally created an empire themed after himself.

A: This is where it gets complicated. Porky was corrupted by Giygas in the fight with Ness and friends but he went back in time just in time before Giygas died and because Giygas died, evilness does not exist any more, however, Porky time travelled and he seemed to have gone into an alternative world, so because he time travelled to get into his world, Giygas was never defeated by Ness, so evilness could still be inside of him, which could explain why he formed a whole evil organisation and brainwashed everyone to do whatever he commanded them to do, so I would say that the answer to your question is yes, he was under the influence of Giygas in both Mother 2 and Mother 3.

Q: Why didn't unsealed Giygas affect or influence Ness and Friends in his Unsealed and Sealed form with his Mind Manipulation?

A: Simple! Because Ness went into his mind and defeated Ness' Nightmare, the evil part of his brain and because there's no evilness in his brain that can be affected, he's immune to Giygas' mind control and corruption! >:3

Q: Has Giygas and/or Giegue ever used their mind manipulation abilities in a fight before?

A: Not that I remember, I never remembered him ever using Brainshock in his fight, he normally uses these abilities: PK Fire, Thunder and Freeze Beta, PK Rockin' Alpha and Beta and PK Flash Beta, but never Brainshock, so Brainshock shouldn't be on his page.

Q: Why weren't all of the NPC's in Earthbound Zero and Earthbound affected by Giygas? Does he selectively choose who to manipulate and influence?

A: I have no idea actually, he did say that he hated humanity and wanted them to all die, so I would say that it was PIS.

Q: Can we get Porky a Sealed Key? He'd practically be invincible.

A: Yeah, of course we should give Porky a Sealed Key, there's no reason not to! >:3

Q: Estimated or supposed time when CRTs will be released?

Sorry, Idk the answer, you should ask a Mother revisor that question...


I hope this all helps!!!! >:3

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

@Ant No problem. Anyway, this is my second attempt at typing a response...But I'll keep things short since Madotsuki has done a pretty good job at responding to the questions. Anyway:

1) Before I even answer this, I would like to say that some of these questions (including this one) were already answered on this thread that the OP had made back the. I think that alone should speak for itself which kinda makes this thread a bit useless but regardless... To answer this, Yes Giygas did retain his old abilities. What makes you say that he hasn't? You might as well post scans and justification to back up your implied claims here. Like, Giygas was growing immensly in power that he was becoming an abstract mass of evil, I don't even see why he would lose such an ability that especially correlates to his concept and existence. The only thing the Devil's Machine does is contain his form and keep his sentience in check, it doesn't suppress any of his abilities at all. And before you say that what the profile states contridicts what I am say, it doesn't. "Tremendous power" clearly refers to what Giygas became after the events of Mother; his true form which caused the destruction of the future timeline. Granted, it could use better wording to prevent confusion. Plus all his actions during the events of the game are done from within the machine, including using mind hax across time, it's plain obvious throughout the text of the game, even as early as Buzz Buzz.


2) As said before, yes. Again, clearly obvious within the text of the game that Pokey was under the influence of Giygas. Such as Betryaing and taunting Ness, causing inconviences throughout his journey, and especially assisting Giygas throughout, being a right hand ma. Does that alone conviences you that he was clearly influenced? If not, then I don't even know what else to tell ya. And no, Pokey calling Giygas an "All mighty idiot" doesn't mean anything at all nor does it imply that he has free control or whatever. And even so, he refers Giygas as his Master and treats him as an Omnipotent evil force; taunting Ness and his party how he can't really win and stuff. As for Mother 3, yes he's still under his influence, just not directly. Giygas had already corrupted his mind in Mother 2 and as such, there's still lasting damage of it which is why the action he does in the game happens. I don't how him constructing an empire based off of him is supposed to debunk it, if anything, it kinda further proves my point. He became a dictator of the island and a skillful manipulator. Even ruined a family cuz why not.


3) Basically what Madotsuki said. He was resisting throughout the journey and had to travel within his Magicant to truly destroy the evil in his mind. Doing so allowed him to destroy all of the evil, fears, and doubts that were within him, allowing him to absorb the true power of the eight "Your" Sanctuary locations. As for the others, this is likely as a result of Truth's protection and the fact that Ness is the universe.


4) No, he hasn't, but that's irrelevant. The fact is that he has passive mind manipulation, it doesn't need to be displayed in a fight because we've already seem its capabilities outside of fights. Even then, Giygas hasn't gotten an opportunity to even use them in a fight, he was holding back against Ninten and Ness was immune to his mind manipulation, so just cause he hasn't used it in a battle doesn't mean he can't or wouldn't.


5) This is more along the lines of just gameplay. There obviously has to be regular people to interact with for the game to be believable. There doesn't need to be a specific explanation.


6) You mean the absolutely safe capsule? He already has it on his profile lol


7) Probably before 2020

 

[Quibster]

It boggles my mind that Mr. Monotoli was selectively chose by Giygas to do his bidding― a person who was a kind man, and had no evil in him as Paula said in-game. Does this mean that Giygas' mindhax isn't passive towards those who don't have evil hearts? Sure, they can be influenced remotely, but not passively as seen in Mr. Monotoli's case.

Reply to 2: If Pokey was still affected by Giygas in Mother 3, who is the embodiment of evil, does that mean that Giygas still exists and is alive during the events of Mother 3?

Reply to 5: That didn't answer my question at all. Why didn't Mr. 4-D Conceptual Evil affect everyone in the game? Is his Mindhax limited to a certain number of people? Or is it a matter of him being in character, where his ultimate goal all along was to swallow the entirety of the universe in his darkness as Buzz-Buzz warned? If that's the case, then his Mindhax isn't passive in some cases― which should be better explained in his Giygas's profile. You can't shrug this question off with "Oh, Game mechanics." Giygas obviously didn't affect everyone (including average human beings)in-game, and I, including everyone else, deserve a proper explanation as to why.

 

[Quibster]

Here are some questions about Lucas and Masked Ma...

Both Lucas and The Masked Man were able to pull needles out of the Dark Dragon. Said Dark Dragon is Low 2-C (Used to be 2-C, but apparently it was changed.) and just one Needle is enough to keep the dragon sealed. Does this mean that Masked Man also has Low 2-C scaling via PK Love? Can they both scale from the Dark Dragon in terms of Tiering?

Can we get someone to review Masked Man's Intelligence on his Profile? "Good enough to command an army" is not part of the official tiering.

Can someone review and calc the tremors/quakes produced after pulling a needle in-game? Do these tremors shake the whole island because of the Dark Dragon, because of the power produced by pulling out the needle, or both?

 

[Quibster]

bump

 

[Quibster]

Here are some questions about Lucas and Masked Ma...

Both Lucas and The Masked Man were able to pull needles out of the Dark Dragon. Said Dark Dragon is Low 2-C (Used to be 2-C, but apparently it was changed.) and just one Needle is enough to keep the dragon sealed. Does this mean that Masked Man also has Low 2-C scaling via PK Love?

Can we get someone to review Masked Man's Intelligence on his Profile? "Good enough to command an army" is not part of the official tiering.

Can someone review and calc the tremors/quakes produced after pulling a needle in-game? Do these tremors shake the whole island because of the Dark Dragon, because of the power produced by pulling out the needle, or both?

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Ok so I can finally answer now...

"It boggles my mind that Mr. Monotoli was selectively chosen by Giygas to do his bidding― a person who was a kind man, and had no evil in him as Paula said in-game. Does this mean that Giygas' mindhax isn't passive towards those who don't have evil hearts? Sure, they can be influenced remotely, but not passively as seen in Mr. Monotoli's case."

What boggles my mind is how you just completely ignored and did not consider my arguments and proceeded to assume that Giygas has a degree of Activated mind hax despite having evidences of passive mind hax regardless, which I don't think seems to be the case here. How is it not passive in Mr. Monotoli's case when he was completely under the influence and he broke out of it? Also there's an an enemy called Unassuming local guy. So yes Giygas can hax "good" people. He can hax things without minds, literally the only thing stopping him is Ness (because as said before, he was resisting throughout). Giygas' mind hax does not need to make complete sense. It's just how they decided to design the enemy mechanic. If everyone is an enemy what is the point?

"If Pokey was still affected by Giygas in Mother 3, who is the embodiment of evil, does that mean that Giygas still exists and is alive during the events of Mother 3?"

What is so hard to understand about lasting influence? There's nothing implying that Giygas is alive in Mother 3 at all. Even with the unused theme or suggestive backgrounds meant for the final boss, Itoi made it clear that it was always gonna be a brother vs brother in the end. Giygas isn't a "true" concept like Truth either, his consciousness was completely destroyed yet evil still exists. If Giygas were alive in Mother 3, he'd have Low-Godly regen or something, which is not happening.

"That didn't answer my question at all. Why didn't Mr. 4-D Conceptual Evil affect everyone in the game? Is his Mindhax limited to a certain number of people? Or is it a matter of him being in character, where his ultimate goal all along was to swallow the entirety of the universe in his darkness as Buzz-Buzz warned? If that's the case, then his Mindhax isn't passive in some cases― which should be better explained in his Giygas's profile. You can't shrug this question off with "Oh, Game mechanics." Giygas obviously didn't affect everyone (including average human beings)in-game, and I, including everyone else, deserve a proper explanation as to why."

sigh, no offense but I think you're quite literally the only one here who is complaining about this. Using "everyone" within this context is quite inappropriate. Anyway...Again. It does not need to make perfect sense; It's a video game. This is like asking why Dark Gaia's mind hax doesn't affect everyone on earth despite it being passive planetary mind hax. If Giygas really wanted, he could possess every being on Earth simultaneously. Mind controlling an entire planet is not out of the scope of a Low 2-C higher dimensional conceptual being. Why didn't Giygas manipulate Ness' parents from across time to never have him born? These little plot "holes" or whatever you want to call them don't have to make sense. The EB developers didn't sit at a round table discussing lore for hundreds of hours in an effort to explain away every little thing, they were kinda busy programming the darn game. If you can't accept that video games (especially older ones) have plot holes or logic that doesn't follow our own, I don't know what to tell you. TLD; Learn to accept that these minor things are PIS. And I don't have to keep repeating myself millions of times... seeing as statements, from reliable sources, like Buzz Buzz, have shown he's been affecting everything just by appearing and this has been hammered down throughout the game, occam's razor suggest there are simply people who resist it.

"Both Lucas and The Masked Man were able to pull needles out of the Dark Dragon. Said Dark Dragon is Low 2-C (Used to be 2-C, but apparently it was changed.) and just one Needle is enough to keep the dragon sealed. Does this mean that Masked Man also has Low 2-C scaling via PK Love? Can they both scale from the Dark Dragon in terms of Tiering?"

This is a pretty obvious no. Just because something can seal something else does not mean there is any AP scaling, and PK love simply pulls out the needle that sealed the Dragon. If that were the case, Flint's durability would be Low 2-C since he tanked Two PK Love attacks point blank.

"Can we get someone to review Masked Man's Intelligence on his Profile? "Good enough to command an army" is not part of the official tiering."

Above average for Claus would be fine because commanding an army does require good critical thinking despite being an emotionless robot slave, It's a valid feat. Plus like, I can't see psychics just having average intelligence, Intelligence and psychic potency are at least correlated in some way. And here, both Claus and Lucas can utilize an advance technique (PK Love) that only those two can use.

"Can someone review and calc the tremors/quakes produced after pulling a needle in-game? Do these tremors shake the whole island because of the Dark Dragon, because of the power produced by pulling out the needle, or both?"

There's no clear answer but I'm pretty sure it's the dragon so calcing this would be kinda pointless.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't have much to say at the moment, but I think QuirkyBoy and Madotsuki are being reasonable here.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Pretty much a redux of this thread that was rejected.

 

[Quibster]

I'll put it to the side. Not trying to start anything. Apologies.

Anyways― what are the major changes you plan on giving the verse in the CRT?

Robot Keys for the Mother 2 Cast?

Maybe Pain Tolerance for Poo on the basis of having his limbs, and mind taken away by the Spirit of Poo's Ancestors?

A profile for the Ultimate Chimera, who can OHKO Lucas with just a single bite?

Perhaps Time Travel for the Mother 2 cast via the Phase Distorter?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Robot keys aren't really necessary, they don't change their abilities or give them an upgrade. The only thing I can think of is that they don't need to eat or rest, they don't have organs, and they can use a machine that would otheriwise be bad if something living was used.

Anyways, I think it's best if you wait for those questions about the CRT until it's actually done, everyone is working hard to make sure we've gotten everything so please be patient.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

I feel like we shouldn't touch on the subject anymore, I'm kinda tired from it. No one here has any issue with his abilities, so I think it's reasonable that we can put this to rest.

Anyway, yeah I agree with DatOneWeeb

 

[Quibster]

I'm just as passionate about the verse as the rest of ya'll. Sorry if I'm stressing you guys out. Kind'a bummed that I'm just causing issues rather than raising questions.

Anyways, I won't touch this verse until the CRT. Please notify me when it has been made― I don't like being that one guy who's impatient.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Robots are barely different from their main forms, and especially in Ness' case, he's already Omnipresent across space-time before possessing a Robot.

 

[Vsbattler]

if ness is the only 2-C member of the Chosen Four, then how did the others tank attacks from Giygas?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

That would be considered an outlier since Giygas is displayed as far superior than the others.

 

[Madotsuki24]

if ness is the only 2-C member of the Chosen Four, then how did the others tank attacks from Giygas?

Game mechanics.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Basixally what DOW and Madotsuki said.