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Dragon Ball upgrades
- Thread starter Antvasima
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Yeah im pretty sure there is a note on the speed page saying that. It definitely aplies here since Infinite Speed humans and low tier fighters would be inconsistent.Newendigo said:
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Time stop should be useless in a place of nothingness as logically Time Stopping prevents any change in space, by virtue of Time itself (which is what usually measures change in space) and Space being non-existent, there's absolutely nothing to be stopped.
Also this would mean everyone there is infinite in speed or something if not for the rule changing.
There are 0 statements, implications, much less confirmation in regards to Daishinkan creating Time and Space out of thin air so that's out of the window, too.
We see some form of what seems to be substance around in those clouds or whatever those are that stretch far further from the arena and they were there before grand priest did anything.
The place looks absolutely nothing like universes that were erased from existence by Zen'o. Which kinda supports the (otherwise moot) argument of "doesn't even look like nothing" which is usually depicted as some uniform nothingness - The world of void does not look like Nothingness even when compared to the series own depiction of what a True Void should be.
Unlike your usual nothingness, nothing was ever erased from existence there either and everyone also exists just fine.
Daishinkan stated the world is empty rather than "it's nothing."
There is some light source actually iluminating both the arena and the space around it which should logically be impossible if there was no space for said light to travel through.
Finally there's the matter pointed out by Iamunanimous since a bunch of characters who would otherwise need air to breath aren't dying there or something (though to be fair they would die in a void of space either way so this one is kinda irrelevant I suppose).
Having all this in mind I find it way more certain to go the obviously more likely choice and say "they shook an infinite void like that of space" than actually go out of our way and say "they shook infinite nothing", which to be fair makes borderline 0 sense.
There are 0 statements, implications, much less confirmation in regards to Daishinkan creating Time and Space out of thin air so that's out of the window, too.
We see some form of what seems to be substance around in those clouds or whatever those are that stretch far further from the arena and they were there before grand priest did anything.
The place looks absolutely nothing like universes that were erased from existence by Zen'o. Which kinda supports the (otherwise moot) argument of "doesn't even look like nothing" which is usually depicted as some uniform nothingness - The world of void does not look like Nothingness even when compared to the series own depiction of what a True Void should be.
Unlike your usual nothingness, nothing was ever erased from existence there either and everyone also exists just fine.
Daishinkan stated the world is empty rather than "it's nothing."
There is some light source actually iluminating both the arena and the space around it which should logically be impossible if there was no space for said light to travel through.
Finally there's the matter pointed out by Iamunanimous since a bunch of characters who would otherwise need air to breath aren't dying there or something (though to be fair they would die in a void of space either way so this one is kinda irrelevant I suppose).
Having all this in mind I find it way more certain to go the obviously more likely choice and say "they shook an infinite void like that of space" than actually go out of our way and say "they shook infinite nothing", which to be fair makes borderline 0 sense.
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Just to play devil's advocate, if there is so much stuff that completely disproves the statement of World of Void having no space or time, what is there to suggest that exclusively the "infinite" part of the statement is accurate?
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That part hasn't been contradicted.
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Unlike the "no time and space", there really isn't one thing contradicting the Infinite part as far as we're aware.
EDIT: Ninja'd by J-Man.
EDIT: Ninja'd by J-Man.
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It does have space and time. The center pillar moves according to time's flow, although time "flows differently," there. It has space because it's clearly visible and open, and things are allowed to exist within it. I genuinely think that by "void," they mean just an infinite expanse of empty space-time, separate from the "normal," multiverse which is in itself a single* continuum to begin with.
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Your whole second sentence is a description of the afterlife. The voids Zeno make are visible and open, and things are allowed to exist in it, plus space-times are generally shown to not exist in voids (Which is why Whis had to make a new timeline for Trunks and Mai). I don't see why this world of nothingness would be different.
Additionally, we don't know how the center pillar works, so it's fallacious to base it on something that was explicitly stated to not exist there.
Additionally, we don't know how the center pillar works, so it's fallacious to base it on something that was explicitly stated to not exist there.
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Yes, but Zen'o's voids are quite literally the result of him erasing something previously unlike the World of Void which has a bunch of contradictions to the statement while having nothing to support it.
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1. "The voids Zeno make are visible and open" ...And 100% different from the WoV, even up to design. When it's the same series depicting this stuff differently, this does work as an argument.Unite My Rice said:
2. "And things are allowed to exist in it" ...The point is that in Zeno's voids we see him erasing something and see that that void was the result of everything that previously existed there being erased. Unlike the World of Void which is an empty world as opposed to nothing as far as Daishinkan is concerned .
3. Well, may be a matter of perspective, but to me It kind of sounds more strange if we were to assume a thing that works based on and measures Time would be working without Time or Space, but maybe that's just me.
EDIT: Either way, as this is nonetheless a staff board, I shall leave to the others to discuss this matter. Once again, my apologies.
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Sorry to barge in but it looks like Whis has confirmed Jiren is as strong as a God of Destruction if not stronger. So maybe comparable to the Angels if we go by the first scaling with Beerus and Whis? I don't think the Angels deserve the low 2-C rating that the Grand Priest rightfully deserved though.
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It's uncertain if Grand Priest will get a Low 2-C rating. I can see at best "At least High 3-A" but im uncertain.
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At least High 3-A isn't warranted either since the gap to the next tier is literally infinite, although i personally believe he should be that tier, we don't have any proof besides assumptions.
Anyway the upgrades have long been performed, should we close this thread?
Anyway the upgrades have long been performed, should we close this thread?
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Well I don't know if there is anything left too discuss now.
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Leave it open and change the board.
Closing it will just result in another one popping up anyway.
Closing it will just result in another one popping up anyway.
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- The voids Zeno make are from previous universes going bye-bye, the origin of the WoV is unknown.
-"Unlike the World of Void which is an empty world as opposed to nothing as far as Daishinkan is concerned ." Oh
Is "filled with infinite nothingness" not the same as "empty"?
"The point is that in Zeno's voids we see him erasing something and see that that void was the result of everything that previously existed there being erased." And...?
-Once again, I bring up the inconsistency + Godpad and Hit argument.
-"Unlike the World of Void which is an empty world as opposed to nothing as far as Daishinkan is concerned ." Oh
Is "filled with infinite nothingness" not the same as "empty"?
"The point is that in Zeno's voids we see him erasing something and see that that void was the result of everything that previously existed there being erased." And...?
-Once again, I bring up the inconsistency + Godpad and Hit argument.
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I think we jumped the gun with 'limited reactive evolution' because for all I know Goku might just be getting used to his new form like what happened in SSG. I personally think we should have waited for round 2 of the fight where Goku fires it up again. Even GP said, he'll wait before making assumptions. And ofcourse there is more to the form, notice the veins popping and that oozaru like voice in Goku's scream?
The high 3-A upgrade seemed blatantly reasonable to me. But I appreciate the fact that you guys discuss each and everything lol.
Speaking of everything, what about Shin's statement which implied Jiren > Infinite Zamasu? By scaling shouldn't they be upgraded to low 2-C? I mean the requirement is creating/destroying universal spacetime continuums.
- Vegeta has destroyed the whole RoSaT twice.
- Goku destroyed Hit's parallel dimension.
- Kale destroyed Cocotte's dimension.
I know these were pretty small dimensions, but it shows that:
> they are capable of destrying spacetime continuums
> they have that kind of range
> now they have got scaling on their side.
So is there any reason why we are not discussing this?
The high 3-A upgrade seemed blatantly reasonable to me. But I appreciate the fact that you guys discuss each and everything lol.
Speaking of everything, what about Shin's statement which implied Jiren > Infinite Zamasu? By scaling shouldn't they be upgraded to low 2-C? I mean the requirement is creating/destroying universal spacetime continuums.
- Vegeta has destroyed the whole RoSaT twice.
- Goku destroyed Hit's parallel dimension.
- Kale destroyed Cocotte's dimension.
I know these were pretty small dimensions, but it shows that:
> they are capable of destrying spacetime continuums
> they have that kind of range
> now they have got scaling on their side.
So is there any reason why we are not discussing this?
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What are some examples of some other voids in fiction?
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Going by these feats alone, you are right. I already mentioned that these dimensions were pretty small. But my main point was that if they are capable of doing so to a finite dimension, and they have universal range, shouldn't they be able to destroy a universal spacetime continnum (which is the requirement of low 2-C) when even the scaling suggests so?Aeyu said:
Correct me if I am getting it all wrong.
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- Thread starter
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I will close this thread and remove the highlight, as it seems to mostly have concluded and turned very long and disorganised.
However, it would probably be good if another staff member starts a new staff thread to discuss if the Grand Priest should be Low 2-C, "At least High 3-A", or just High 3-A, as well as if Jiren should scale from infinite Zamasu.
However, it would probably be good if another staff member starts a new staff thread to discuss if the Grand Priest should be Low 2-C, "At least High 3-A", or just High 3-A, as well as if Jiren should scale from infinite Zamasu.
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