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But that’s only cos it’s consistent with the primary material. Since it’s a secondary source
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Dragon ball universe crt
- Thread starter Omegabronic
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It actually comes from the guides that are used, and everything in the guide is considered canon by the guide.
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- #123
it comes from the guides, but it is only accepted because it is consistent with the main cannon, if it wasn't consistent or if it didn't had evidence for it, we wouldn't have used it
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If secondary canon (guidebooks) conflicts with primary canon then it's disregarded.
Why do you think we don't use the SSJ2 and SSJ3 multipliers?
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Akira Toriyama says in an interview that the multiplier is 50x, but he feels like its more of a 10x boost rather than 50. While the last bit is irrelevant, this doesn’t necessarily make the guidebooks more reliable. As stated previously, for the same reason we don’t use ssj2 2x multiplier and ssj3 4x.
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Could you show this interview? Especially because it's in the same guides we use, where there are several interviews with Akira toriyama.
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Episode 28: I've checked, and this was only Whis explaining to Goku & Vegeta that universes come in pairs. The following cinematic is purely to accentuate that, hence why the balls are colored in pairs
Episode 55: There is no mention of those balls representing the Universes, and there is only 6 of them in total which further shows that they don't represent the Universes
Episode 41: What's the evidence of that being situated inbetween Macrocosms? I've looked through the episode, and haven't found any.
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Weak argument, considering as this is Toriyama's direct words
And we're not arguing transformations here, so don't bring up something irrelevant
Stefano4444
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Yes, the guides and databooks are secondary canon, but treating any information coming from them as headcanon by default unless all of them have been directly stated/show in main canon its bonkers.
Just because King Kai never stated how much big its the Other World is doesn't automatically disgregate all the info about the realm to be universal in size.
That a ridiculous standard, as long there is no direct contradiction the information from guides and databooks are fair to be use as evidence, and if there is some inconsistencies then it still doesn't mean that the rest of the info must be now wrong.
Those do not looks like separated dimensions at all, they looks more like large nebulas or dwarf galaxies within the map, and this assumption is baseless as nothing indicate that those are suppost to rappresent separated dimensions.
If we trully must assume that those visuals are suppost to be fully accurate on scale descriptions that are meant completely retcon the original structure given to Universe 7 (even thought the DBS Manga show the same structure still exist), then we have to say that Other World and Kaioshin Realm are no longer part of Universe 7 (like with ROSAT) and that universes are only 3-C in size.
Yeah, i completely disagree with the CRT.
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The argument is whether the map is truly to scale. When super shenron transforms we visibly see the two universes.
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Well said
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Did you miss the point of the op?
That’s the quote, I’ll find the interview when i have time
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With nothing but pretty ambiguous visuals to go by, more likely than not it's proposed viewer interpretations of said visuals that're inconsistent rather than the actual author himself's words.
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- #135
and he did that by showing the said universes
the balls are consistent with the earlier showing made by whis and the one showed earlier in episode 41
it is located in the "neutral space" between universe 7 and 6, stated in episode 29 of dbs, can't find an clip in english to send unfortunately
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FRA disagree
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Disagree FRA
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Not going to nobody has made shit arguments but where exactly do anyone of you explain why the map is to scale? That’s one of the Ops main point.
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I want both of the moderators that have accepted the proposal to reveal what they think should be the way to calculate feats going forwards, because this isn't something so small to just take away without understanding what would come after it and filling it's vacuum.
How do you explain there only being 6 balls in the anime, then? Not to mention that the point falls before reaching to this point, as put in context Whis is only visualising Universes being in pairs, the Kaioshin Realm failing to be outside of them, and these universes all being seemingly identical not being possible
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OP hasn't exactly given an alternative if the map wasn't to scale, either. If this goes through without that being established in the first place, there'll be an unbelievably huge vacuum needing to be filled in the wiki, and the fact that neither of the two moderators in agreement have addressed this is pretty irresponsible.
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No, I don't think I will. The OP already gave alternative means of calculating Universe feats:
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If you need more, call me, see?
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- Thread starter
- #143
when did i ever said something like that?
i never even mentioned king kai in the op, we don't accept such statements here nowdays, and strictly use the macrocosm map to calc their sizes and distances, which is what the op is removing
in this case there is, the macrocosm map is contradicted size wise by the series
hence why that is only a possibility in the op, since the main point is that there is no reason to assume that they would be visible in the first place, besides we don't know what they would look like, so we can't say that they wouldn't look like that
just a reminder that the map suggested for the dbs anime is not being proposed to be used for the manga
what are you talking about? besides the fact that we see more than one galaxy in the visual, we also have no showing or statement of that being a single galaxy, we are seeing the universe, all we see is a massive center being orbited by numerous glowy points
even with the other points about how the macrocosm map in not in scale size wise?
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I want you to make it clear that you believe in completely disregarding the guidebook statements, if not explicitly presented in the show itself.
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I also think, we should disregard any agreement with the two administrators, in every DB topic they only appear to demote the verse and then disappear like a ghost
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Excuse me, but no alternative is actually required.
I'm very glad that it is not up to you then.
Eden_Warlock99
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that is why the point 2 in the op exists, even without the dbs map, the current one used in the calcs is still not reliable to use for calculations since it isn't in scale in size
show me when we are shown to only have 6 balls, which episode are you talking about? besides the super shenron showing is the most clear one and has no excuse
by showing the said universes
ouside of secondary cannon guides, is there any reason to assume that they would be outside? if it contradicts the guides we simply discard the said guide's statement since it is contradicted by the main cannon
why not?
yes i have
see the "proposals" part in the end
that is not the point in the op tho
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Great!
Here's a Dragon Ball Super guidebook that shows the same U7 map.
It has not been retconned. What's left now?
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- #151
1 see point 2 in the op, even using the guides a recalc would need to be done
2 it is again, a guide, which is secondary the main cannon and as such, if it contradicts it, then it will not be used
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the same episode you gave me..
Ep 55
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I'm refuting both the point that the guidebook map shouldn't be used because it was retconned and the Daizenshuu is too old, and I've already refuted the scans in the OP.
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Does it show contradicting itself? You just talk my friend and never show anything, we can show hundreds of proofs in your face and you're like, like I said earlier, that's just the Universe alive observed, it is nothing more than that, it is not the whole macrocosm.
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- #157
a screen shot i meant
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- #158
that is not the point in the op tho
not really, but regardless point 2 still stands since you didn't even touched the arguments in it
Stefano4444
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What contradict the macrocosm map? Aside for the visuals used in DBS, which i already stated why its a bad idea.
The same structure was show in DBS Manga for crying out loud, the canon series with its loosely based on Toriyama's vision and nobody else (aside for Toyotaro).
The way the universes are show make them seen to have just single large galaxy with a few large nebulas/dwarf galaxies orbiting around the main body.
I don't see how that can be interpreted in any different way.
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