Dragon Ball universal space time number downgrade

[CloverDragon03]

Just to clarify, thia thread is about the size of the realms, outside of the demon realm, it is not really trying to disprove that they are space times

If you already knew that, you can ignore this

Yeah I knew about this

 

[Stefano4444]

It doesn’t, we already went over this in omegas thread, DOSL is not mapped within the macrocosm of either universe so the most legitimate assumption that doesn’t break scaling is it being an extra dimension outside the macrocosm giving +1 space time to characters who sit on SSJ Gogeta and Brolys level 2 in addition to 2 macrocosms they already scale above.

Then some profiles need to be corrected since Super Goku's page say that can bust 6 universal size space-times (which would include the DOSL) back in Battle of Gods.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm in favor of 5 space-times. Remove only the Demon Realm

I am also in favor of this, I think this seems to be enough as the other arguments for supporting the other realms being like low 2-C is indeed solid validation, now we just hope one more member of the team to be removed from the demon world.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It doesn’t, we already went over this in omegas thread, DOSL is not mapped within the macrocosm of either universe so the most legitimate assumption that doesn’t break scaling is it being an extra dimension outside the macrocosm giving +1 space time to characters who sit on SSJ Gogeta and Brolys level 2 in addition to 2 macrocosms they already scale above.

But that’s for another thread, I think current discussion is about wether or not all the dimensions are space times.

My final position is that demon realm should be gone.

It makes a lot of sense

 

[AwkguyDB]

Ok Omega at this point we should go through the votes and comments and see who and how many agree to a certain amount

In total there are "6 Universes" that are in contention here and here's what people agree with so far:

6 Universes (disagree with the OP/ no changes):

5 Universes (The removal of either the Demon Realm or Hell):
@AwkguyDB, @TiltedFN, @CraigTucker (Kaioshin Realm),@AguilaR202, @TheGreatBanana, @CloverDragon03, @Matrixxxx @LuffyRuffy46307,

4 Universes (the removal of both Hell and the Demon Realm):
@LordGriffin1000,

3 Universes (Removal of the Kaioshin Realm or Swirling Lights with Hell and the Demon Realm):
@Phsccarvalho, @BestMGQScalerEver, @TheGodOfICE777, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Reiner, @Boyinluv2002, @Stefano4444

2 Universes (Agree with the OP/ all realms outside of the Afterlife and Living realm should be dropped): @Hasty12345, @AKUTO123, @Shiraito983, @RaveeCPN, @Akagami_Shanks1, @Hiryu-Z

The updated responses

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yeah I knew about this

Could you tag a few more team members?

 

[Stefano4444]

Just to clarify, thia thread is about the size of the realms, outside of the demon realm, it is not really trying to disprove that they are space times

If i must be frank, i think Hell its the only one that its legitimacy as a separated space-time its questionable (while ironically i think the place should have comparable size to the Afterlife due of basically be the floor of the entire realm), if not in this thread then it should be addressed in another CRT.

 

[AwkguyDB]

If i must be frank, i think Hell its the only one that its legitimacy as a separated space-time its questionable (while ironically i think the place should have comparable size to the Afterlife), if not in this thread then it should be addressed in another CRT.

Want to be put down for 5 then?

 

[Stefano4444]

Want to be put down for 5 then?

I already at 3 universes.

 

[Omegabronic]

Ok Omega at this point we should go through the votes and comments and see who and how many agree to a certain amount

In total there are "6 Universes" that are in contention here and here's what people agree with so far:

6 Universes (disagree with the OP/ no changes):

5 Universes (The removal of either the Demon Realm or Hell):
@AwkguyDB, @TiltedFN, @CraigTucker (Kaioshin Realm),@AguilaR202, @TheGreatBanana, @CloverDragon03, @Matrixxxx @LuffyRuffy46307,

4 Universes (the removal of both Hell and the Demon Realm):
@LordGriffin1000,

3 Universes (Removal of the Kaioshin Realm or Swirling Lights with Hell and the Demon Realm):
@Phsccarvalho, @BestMGQScalerEver, @TheGodOfICE777, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Reiner, @Boyinluv2002, @Stefano4444

2 Universes (Agree with the OP/ all realms outside of the Afterlife and Living realm should be dropped): @Hasty12345, @AKUTO123, @Shiraito983, @RaveeCPN, @Akagami_Shanks1, @Hiryu-Z

Could you separate the ones that agree on temoving the demon realm and hell? I want it to be perfectly organized in the op

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I think it should be okay for Hell to stay as a universe. The Daizenshuu divides the Afterlife (a different map from the globe that depicts the Afterlife as it's own sphere instead of half of one) into thirds, and Hell is an entire third in itself along with the Kaio Realm, which contains Heaven. Meaning Hell=the realm that contains Heaven.

Demon Realm being downgraded is fine though.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I'm honestly unsure. I can agree with the demon realm possibly going, maybe kaioshin realm too but I'm honestly don't know enough about the macrocosm stuff.

wanted check with you because its highly likely that the Afterlife is beyond 10xs baseline so the Kaioshin Realm shouldn't honestly unless we can prove the Afterlife is smaller than 10x but anyways wanted to see if your opinions changed

 

[Omegabronic]

I think it should be okay for Hell to stay as a universe. The Daizenshuu divides the Afterlife (a different map from the globe that depicts the Afterlife as it's own sphere instead of half of one) into thirds, and Hell is an entire third in itself along with the Kaio Realm, which contains Heaven. Meaning Hell=the realm that contains Heaven.

The map is not on scale in size tho, exept, which map are you talking about again? I may be confusing 2 maps

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The map is not on scale in size tho, exept, which map are you talking about again? I may be confusing 2 maps

Toei's map wasn't mentioned so it's still used, you made it for DBS but not for Toei you know?

 

[AwkguyDB]

The map is not on scale in size tho, exept, which map are you talking about again? I may be confusing 2 maps

He's talking about the Daizenshuu map that labels the three sections of the Afterlife

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

The map is not on scale in size tho, exept, which map are you talking about again? I may be confusing 2 maps

Yeah, I'm referring to a diff one

Dragon Ball Daizenshuu #7 - Pages 35-50

Also, the World Beyond is divided into three areas. That is, the Kaiou Realm, where the Kami live and where Heaven is located, the Enma Realm, where King Enma, who judges the souls of the dead, lives, and Hell, where souls of bad people are dropped, are the three

I think it's safe to say this division would be pretty redundant if Hell were smaller than individual sections of the other realms like Heaven

 

[Omegabronic]

Toei's map wasn't mentioned so it's still used, you made it for DBS but not for Toei you know?

No? The map was decided to not be in scale in size at all, that was the proposal in the thread

Yeah, I'm referring to a diff one

Dragon Ball Daizenshuu #7 - Pages 35-50

I think it's safe to say this division would be pretty redundant if Hell were smaller than individual sections of the other realms like Heaven

I mean, this could also just be dividing the dimensions of the afterlife, saying which ones there are, i honestly don't believe this is good proof for size personally, but i won't fight to hard on it either, as long as people don't use stuff rejected already i will be fine

 

[AwkguyDB]

Yeah, I'm referring to a diff one

Dragon Ball Daizenshuu #7 - Pages 35-50

I think it's safe to say this division would be pretty redundant if Hell were smaller than individual sections of the other realms like Heaven

This supports Hell having a vastly larger size than Heaven which is the same size of the Living Realm and in return supports the Kaioshin realm being 1/10th the size of this massive structure.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No? The map was decided to not be in scale in size at all, that was the proposal in the thread

For super, not for Toei, you just handed us a lasagna

 

[Omegabronic]

For super, not for Toei, you just handed us a lasagna

It was for the map in general

also eew lasagna? I prefer miojo

This supports Hell having a vastly larger size than Heaven which is the same size of the Living Realm and in return supports the Kaioshin realm being 1/10th the size of this massive structure.

Supports? There would need to be other things saying that hell is that big for this to support anything, it is an evidence yes, but you can't say that it is support

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It was for the map in general

According to you, it's just the map of the super

also eew lasagna? I prefer miojo

Lasagna, I was told that ramen noodles are harmful to health over time, I stopped eating them lol

 

[Omegabronic]

According to you, it's just the map of the super

no? it was about the map in general, super had an adition proposal that was negated sure, but the main proposal for the map itself was agreed, that was my proposal in that thread

Lasagna, I was told that ramen noodles are harmful to health over time, I stopped eating them lol

chocolate will have to be then

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It doesn’t, we already went over this in omegas thread, DOSL is not mapped within the macrocosm of either universe so the most legitimate assumption that doesn’t break scaling is it being an extra dimension outside the macrocosm giving +1 space time to characters who sit on SSJ Gogeta and Brolys level 2 in addition to 2 macrocosms they already scale above.

But that’s for another thread, I think current discussion is about wether or not all the dimensions are space times.

My final position is that demon realm should be gone.

It being mapped isn’t a good counter since it can just be in the subspace between other space times (the subspace thing was already accepted before anyone asks)

But I pretty much agree with everyone else regarding demon realm as well

 

[Omegabronic]

It being mapped isn’t a good counter since it can just be in the subspace between other space times (the subspace thing was already accepted before anyone asks)

There could still be the argument for if it even is a subspace at all, but let's leave that discussion for another thread

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah I knew about this

Can you ping more staff? Majority seem to agree on 5

 

[Omegabronic]

Can you ping more staff? Majority seem to agree on 5

The only 2 staffs with evaluation rights that comented do not agree on 5, do you mean the normal users? Because the majority of them do also do not agree on 5

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The current staff consensus with agreeing to the crt seems like Griffin agrees with Kaio Realm and Demon Realm possibly going but he said he’s not knowledgeable enough to comment on the rest of the stuff

DDM disagrees that Hell and Kaioshin realm aren’t 3-A sized and agrees that they are indeed 3-A sized not 100% sure what else DDM disagrees with though

 

[Omegabronic]

The current staff consensus with agreeing to the crt seems like Griffin agrees with Kaio Realm and Demon Realm possibly going but he said he’s not knowledgeable enough to comment on the rest of the stuff

DDM disagrees that Hell and Kaioshin realm aren’t 3-A sized and agrees that they are indeed 3-A sized not 100% sure what else DDM disagrees with though

Ddm agreed on 3 space times, kaioshin realm, living universe and afterlife, anything else you would need to ask him again

 

[AguilaR202]

It being mapped isn’t a good counter since it can just be in the subspace between other space times (the subspace thing was already accepted before anyone asks)

But I pretty much agree with everyone else regarding demon realm as well

It creates very blatant and undeniable circular scaling though, SSG Goku would have destroyed it in less hits than Gogeta and broly (2 macrocosms level AP at the time) could, I mean the dimension is broken into by literally exceeding the limits of the universe, it’s not on the maps that depict all conventional dimensions that belong to a single macrocosm, and it takes characters billions to trillions of times stronger than BoG Goku clashing to reach it, trying to make it as if it had been part of the macrocosm all along so BoG Goku retroactively scales to its destruction is as disingenuous an upgrade as it gets.

 

[TiltedFN]

It creates very blatant and undeniable circular scaling though, SSG Goku would have destroyed it in less hits than Gogeta and broly (2 macrocosms level AP at the time) could, I mean the dimension is broken into by literally exceeding the limits of the universe, it’s not on the maps that depict all conventional dimensions that belong to a single macrocosm, and it takes characters billions to trillions of times stronger than BoG Goku clashing to reach it, trying to make it as if it had been part of the macrocosm all along so BoG Goku retroactively scales to its destruction is as disingenuous an upgrade as it gets.

Dude stop talking about the scaling, we have been through this that bog goku will not scale, this crt is purely for accepting which spacetimes qualify.

 

[Omegabronic]

Dude stop talking about the scaling, we have been through this that bog goku will not scale, this crt is purely for accepting which spacetimes qualify.

Size, it is about size, we need to say size to not confuse the people

 

[TiltedFN]

Size, it is about size, we need to say size to not confuse the people

thats why i said which spacetimes qualify. For uni in size.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Dude stop talking about the scaling, we have been through this that bog goku will not scale, this crt is purely for accepting which spacetimes qualify.

I feel like another crt for Dosl not being in the macrocosm should be made since it was already accepted and this crt is for size and i disagree with it not being in the macrocosm for reasons I stated above but I do not want to derail this crt so for now treat It as being in the macrocosm and do another crt to remove it entirely unless op wants to include that too

 

[Omegabronic]

I feel like another crt for Dosl not being in the macrocosm should be made since it was already accepted and this crt is for size and i disagree with it not being in the macrocosm for reasons I stated above but I do not want to derail this crt so for now treat It as being in the macrocosm and do another crt to remove it entirely unless op wants to include that too

Yeah, let us focus on size for this thread

 

[Hasty12345]

Ok Omega at this point we should go through the votes and comments and see who and how many agree to a certain amount

In total there are "6 Universes" that are in contention here and here's what people agree with so far:

6 Universes (disagree with the OP/ no changes):

5 Universes (The removal of either the Demon Realm or Hell):
@AwkguyDB(Demon Realm), @TiltedFN(Demon Realm), @CraigTucker (Kaioshin Realm),@AguilaR202(Demon Realm), @TheGreatBanana(Demon Realm), @CloverDragon03(Demon Realm), @Matrixxxx(Demon Realm) @LuffyRuffy46307(Demon Realm), @SSJGeminiJJ(Demon Realm)

4 Universes (the removal of both Hell and the Demon Realm):
@LordGriffin1000 (Demon and Kaioshin Realm)

3 Universes (Removal of the Kaioshin Realm or Swirling Lights with Hell and the Demon Realm):
@Phsccarvalho, @BestMGQScalerEver, @TheGodOfICE777, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Reiner, @Boyinluv2002, @Stefano4444

2 Universes (Agree with the OP/ all realms outside of the Afterlife and Living realm should be dropped): @Hasty12345, @AKUTO123, @Shiraito983, @RaveeCPN, @Akagami_Shanks1, @Hiryu-Z

I actually changed my mind and agreed with Luffy's rebuttals to most the OP not that us blue names matter too much anyway

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

(Also I’d like to mention that Griffin never gave a stance on hell and only mentioned kaio and demon realm and said he could possibly see them going but he doesn’t know enough for the other parts of the macrocosm)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

(Also I’d like to mention that Griffin never gave a stance on hell and only mentioned kaio and demon realm and said he could possibly see them going but he doesn’t know enough for the other parts of the macrocosm)

Same went for DDM

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Living Universe is still considerably multitudes above baseline 3-A, taking that into consideration, Kaioshin Realm could still meet that 3-A size marking. Hell is actually larger than Heaven and it's like bigger than the Living Universe by a large margin; it is what takes up most of Otherworld's space. But I don't know full context on other details but as others said, 3 timelines sounds like a given minimum.

DDM seems neutral to the other realms and agrees that Hell should be bigger than Heaven.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Actually, it was only removed due to a Infinite size update which got over turned, so the whole "Earth being close to the edge of the Universe requires a universe far larger than the observable universe since not only is their OU bigger via better telescope technology, every planet, star, and galaxy known in our universe exists in the Dragon Ball universe and then some. Which means 46.5 lightyears is merely a spec compared to the rest of the universe.

Not really, the old Macrocosm scale shows Hell being much larger than planet Heaven

Another comment from him

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I actually changed my mind and agreed with Luffy's rebuttals to most the OP not that us blue names matter too much anyway

You are a good friend