Dragon Ball Super's scaling issue #9001: AKA this is not a revision request, nor any attempt to change anything about DBZ profiles. I just want to und

[Matthew_Schroeder]

To be fair, we don't always rate characters a certain tier for creating small craters in material that's much stronger than normal. For example, we don't rate Satsuki and Ryuko (in Junketsu) as 6-B for cracking/cratering that 6-B ship.
Granted, this is likely a different case, and Kale is very clearly 3-A.

The arena is made of Reinforced Katchin, designed so that even the GoDs will have a hard time breaking it. Kale cracked the arena by walking / powering up.

That is blatantly 3-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"And why wouldn't 3-A kale be PIS instead? As the first thing that happens is Kalulifa blocking her attack. Also Goku in ssj form should of been dead by this point cause he got a direct hit from Kale and there is also cabba being able to keep up with kale."
Doesn't matter. Give me a legit reason for the Caulifla deflection to not be PIS. Simply put, Kale is not PIS.

The easiest explanation is that Kale didn't use her full strength against Caulifla, because Caulifla is essentially the only person she genuinely cares for.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

"One reason to why isn't it pis like seriously goku and Vegeta train for 30 years to become 3-A and this random Loli transforms for the first time in her life and becomes 3-A."
Wow, you are really going to use the "This character is a cute girly girl so she can't be stronger than this manly hunky man" argument.

Go with the feats. Nothing else matter.

Super Saiyan Blue >>>>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan 3 > Super Saiyan 2 > Super Saiyan >>>> Base Goku.

And even Base Goku will be 3-B+

18 kicked Goku's Kamehameha in SSB like nothing. That makes her 3A by "feats" doesn't it?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Except said attack wasn't aimed at 18. Not only that, unlike 18, Kale has a legit new transformation with her feat.

 

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The easiest explanation is that Kale didn't use her full strength against Caulifla, because Caulifla is essentially the only person she genuinely cares for.

To bad the attack was against cabba the one she hated the most so that argument falls really fast.

 

[Blanked]

Thou since this is DB I will just leave...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

SSJ2 Caulifla's deflection is simply PIS when compared to Kale's later feats.

 

[Dark649]

To bad the attack was against cabba the one she hated the most so that argument falls really fast.

Most of these characters will become 3-A, so it's consistent.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Except said attack wasn't aimed at 18. Not only that, unlike 18, Kale has a legit new transformation with her feat.

And still that doesn't justify 3A rating.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It really does. Just how SSG justified a 3-A rating. Just how Golden Frieza justified a 3-A rating and not PIS.

 

[Dark649]

And still that doesn't justify 3A rating.

There is no need of justifications in Super due to my blogs.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

It really does. Just how SSG justified a 3-A rating. Just how Golden Frieza justified a 3-A rating and not PIS.

SSG had good solid feats and statements. Kale has none.

 

[Dark649]

SSG had good solid feats and statements. Kale has none.

No. The fact that she was a major threat by the troopers and forced Jiren to stop her is a big one.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Kale feats

-Pushed backs SSJ2 and SSB Goku.

-Destroyed Enhanced Katchin

-Toppo stated that even her voice was powerful.

-Vegeta saw her as a threat.

And once again, you keep ignoring the fact that all these characters are becoming 3-A regardless.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dark649

Not everyone agrees 100% with your blogs. While a lot of people here are too conservative with Super, you are imo way too liberal.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Komi

>Shows Kale feats

"It's PIS"

>Shows why it's not PIS

"She has no feats"

Stop moving the goalpost.

She either has feats which you think it's PIS, or she has feats which aren't PIS. There's no scenario where she has no good feats or statements.

 

[Dark649]

Not everyone agrees 100% with your blogs. While a lot of people here are too conservative with Super, you are imo way too liberal.

You don't even know and are only one user, the scaling will be more simple than what you think.

 

[Antvasima]

This discussion risks to turn too heated. Everybody calm down and try to be polite please.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Kale feats
-Pushed backs SSJ2 and SSB Goku.

-Destroyed Enhanced Katchin

-Toppo stated that even her voice was powerful.

-Vegeta saw her as a threat.

And once again, you keep ignoring the fact that all these characters are becoming 3-A regardless.

-Pushing back SS2 Goku is 4B. SSB was fine. She didn't do any damage to him. Gohan also pushed SS2 and Goku one-shotted him with Kaioken. Why isn't him 3A?

-Piccolo destroyed part of Vados barrier back in U6. Then why he is not 3A?

-And? That could range her more than 4B. But that's it. Super Buu could ripe holes into reality with his voice when he was angry.

-Frieza smiled at her transformation. And the others were not much worried.

I would love it when next episodes come and we have some soft of downgrades for those 3A's you say. Becoming 3A should have solid feats and statements.

@Antvasima Ok.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Pushing back SS2 Goku will be 3-A. Gohan is 3-A but it makes people salty

Because Vados' barrier wasn't made with the intention of making 3-As not break it.

Toppo is 3-A

Vegeta is 3-A and he is scared of her

 

[Dark649]

Again Komi everything post Battle of Gods will become 3-A for the only one important fact that Goku God Chi became his own.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Pushing back SS2 Goku will be 3-A. Gohan is 3-A but it makes people salty
Because Vados' barrier wasn't made with the intention of making 3-As not break it.

Toppo is 3-A

Vegeta is 3-A and he is scared of her

No. SS2 Goku is 4B. Unless you want Present Zamasu to be 3A too.

Champa's attacks didn't break it though....

And Zeno is 2C and he is impressed by everyone. Does this make them 3A or 2C too?

@Dark649 That's pretty incosistent. One moment Goku doesn't need SSJ forms to fight (Final form) Frieza and Copy Vegeta in Base one shotted Gotenks and the next moment Goku can not fight Present Zamasu and Basil in base and goes SSJ/SSJ 2.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Again Komi everything post Battle of Gods will become 3-A for the only one important fact that Goku God Chi became his own.

Stop saying this like it's a fact. Most people disagree with 3-A humans.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

-It's 3-A going by our revision plans. Because we agreed not to upgrade anyone until the end of the tournament. Or were you not paying attention?

-Barrier was never stated to be strong enough to hold 80 fighters with a good chunk of them being 3-A.

-Except Toppo (A 3-A) said this.

-Frieza was barely in the episode, he had one cut in image. And if you could not see all the Pride-Troopers, Vegeta, Cabba, Caulifla were worried.

No 3-A can also come from sheer powerscaling as well. Simple as that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@KOMI

Present Zamasu will be 3-A, yes.

Champa was obviously not going all out. Does context even exist with Dragon Ball debates?

It's in Zeno's character to be easily impressed. He's a child. Meanwhile Vegeta is a serious character. Again, context?

 

[Dark649]

Most people disagree with 3-A humans.

Then explain me why Roshi was able eliminate Jium or Krillin was able to hit Shosa and eliminate Majora, who overwhelmed 18, who will fight alongside 17 and she likely plans to attack Frost, who fought with Post God Absortion Goku and don't mention the world outlier.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We'll deal with Humans and Androids when the revision happens.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I just want to add that we shouldnt take that writer on twiter at his word.

Most of the time he establishes that its his opinion and not fact. When talking about powerscaling first he said 17=Gohan than he said Gohan>17. He also seems to think that Zeno is the only universe buster.

I really dont think he should use their twitter posts to justify stats.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

@KOMI
Present Zamasu will be 3-A, yes.

Champa was obviously not going all out. Does context even exist with Dragon Ball debates?

It's in Zeno's character to be easily impressed. He's a child. Meanwhile Vegeta is a serious character. Again, context?

Context could be said about what I said previously about Goku not letting a lot of power out.

Are you serious? Present Zamasu 3A????? Present Zamasu is 4B and Goku said that he had the potential to reach Beerus league one Day. SSR Black and Merged Zamasu are are leagues above normal Zamasu. If Zamasu was 3A why did he need Goku's body?

And Champa said that if someone breaks then he would be humilated. Vegeta saw the form for the first time. Sure he has to be worried because he doesn't know its limits and he is a saiyan.

@Dark649 That's pretty incosistent. One moment Goku doesn't need SSJ forms to fight (Final form) Frieza and Copy Vegeta in Base one shotted Gotenks and the next moment Goku can not fight Present Zamasu and Basil in base and goes SSJ/SSJ 2.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Then explain me why Roshi was able eliminate Jium or Krillin was able to hit Shosa and eliminate Majora, who overwhelmed 18, who will fight alongside 17 and she likely plans to attack Frost, who fought with Post God Absortion Goku and don't mention the world outlier.

Outliers exist. Deal with it.

18 is not on the same level as 17, and Roshi is weaker than Krillin who is weaker than Suppressed Base Gohan Pre-Ultimate Boost. The other character that they took out are featless.

It's like we can't find reasonable people to argue DBS here. They either think everyone is 3-A or that everyone should be downgraded to 4-B.

 

[Dark649]

The writers constantly contraddicts with themselfes and with the others and they portray the powerscaling the way they want to, which varies from writer to writer.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Are you serious? Present Zamasu 3A????? Present Zamasu is 4B and Goku said thathe had the potential to reach Beerus league one Day. SSR Black and Merged Zamasu are are legues above normal Zamasu. If Zamasu was 3A why did he need Goku's body?"

Via our new scaling rules yes. Also you seem to forget that there are multiple degrees of 3-A. A 3-A can still stomp other 3-A's in power.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Context could be said about what I said previously about Goku not letting a lot of power out."

???

"Are you serious? Present Zamasu 3A????? Present Zamasu is 4B and Goku said that he had the potential to reach Beerus league one Day. SSR Black and Merged Zamasu are are leagues above normal Zamasu. If Zamasu was 3A why did he need Goku's body?"

One 3-A can be 1 trillion times stronger than another 3-A.

"And Champa said that if someone breaks then he would be humilated. Vegeta saw the form for the first time. Sure he has to be worried because he doesn't know its limits and he is a saiyan."

What's your point? Champa didn't use his full power and everyone is impressed / afraid of Kale.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

"Are you serious? Present Zamasu 3A????? Present Zamasu is 4B and Goku said thathe had the potential to reach Beerus league one Day. SSR Black and Merged Zamasu are are legues above normal Zamasu. If Zamasu was 3A why did he need Goku's body?"
Via our new scaling rules yes. Also you seem to forget that there are multiple degrees of 3-A. A 3-A can still stomp other 3-A's in power.

Well that's wrong. Goku compared Zamasu to Shin and said that he is strong for a Kaioshin and U7 Kaioshin wouldn't stand a against him. But that's it. Does this comparison make Shin 3A too?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That's all that's needed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No. It means that Zamasu is way stronger than Shin, as evidenced by him matching 3-B+ Goku.

 

[Dark649]

Outliers exist. Deal with it.

It's not an outlier, i'm sure they can say something to justify 18 the others because it's the way the writers decided to portray the characters in the episode, in another one they could be portrayed differently.

 

[Antvasima]

I just want to add that we shouldnt take that writer on twiter at his word.

Most of the time he establishes that its his opinion and not fact. When talking about powerscaling first he said 17=Gohan than he said Gohan>17. He also seems to think that Zeno is the only universe buster.

I really dont think he should use their twitter posts to justify stats.

Strongly agreed.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

That's all that's needed.

I don't intend to be rude but these are way way bad scaling rules you have there. Shin is High 4C at best. I only see this make everyone 3A here and not anywhere else.

Majin Buu could fight Basil and his drugged form. Does this make them 3A since Goku need SSJ to overpower completely Basil....

Your scaling should have more logic with PIS, Incosistencies, Feats and statements. I don't want to downgrade DB characters but let's use logic here...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dark649

Your argument doesn't make sense. If there's no reason for 18 to be that strong, and she has no feats on that level, you can't say she is 3-A.

18 is Star level, she's not one bit stronger than in the Android Saga. At best Krillin is Star level too. 17 meanwhile has been shown to be much stronger.