Dragon Ball Super's scaling issue #9001: AKA this is not a revision request, nor any attempt to change anything about DBZ profiles. I just want to und

[Dark649]

SSB Goku and Current Ultimate Gohan are likely more equal, but i need to see more from Gohan. According to other leaks something terrible will happen in the tournament (probably something with the angels) and Goku will attain that new form to counter it.

 

[Dark649]

Can we upgrade RoF Gohan and Tagoma to 4-B? Gohan stated that Tagoma would "rival me at my peak", meaning his Ultimate Form in the Buu Saga, and after Ginyu took over Tagoma, he became even stronger.

No, have you seen my blogs. Tagoma was easily defeated by SS Gotenks and SS Gohan, which are far weaker than Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Nope. He was stated to be stronger than Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan by both Gohan and Piccolo, that just means that RoF SS Gotenks and SS Gohan are stronger.

 

[Dark649]

It was stated that there was at time of peace after Buu defeat in were some characters barely even trained [Especially Goten and Trunks], Gohan was unable to turn SS2 and Ultimate due to him not training, even Future Trunks was upset that he could not sense that brimming power from him from his fight with Cell.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Gohan clearly trained. Why do you think he was wearing a jogging uniform?

Also, Being unable to turn SSJ2 =/= Being weaker.

Super shows with Cabba and Caulifla that turning Super Saiyan has more to do with technique than power. Cabba and Caulifla couldn't turn Super Saiyan but they solo everyon in Z including Super Saiyan 3s and Ultimate Gohan.

The actual statements are simply, Tagoma = Gohan at his peak, stated by multiple people and I think narrator as well.

Trunks was disappointed he couldn't feel Gohan's fighting spirit.

 

[Dark649]

He wore that clothes when going to battle Frieza army and prior he mainly wanted to stay with his family, lastly he stated that he doubted to turn even super saiyan and SS Gotenks, who is comparable to his Buu saga self because Goten and Trunks trained very little after Buu's defeat was able to damage Tagoma

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Herms on Twitter confirmed that Goku said he would release a LITTLE bit more of his power (after turning into SSB). That a little should be compared to his SSJ2 form.

Which means Kale > SS2 Goku not SSB Goku... Don't rush into conclusions guys...

 

[Dark649]

Sorry, but Kale is 3-A since she was able to break the arena with her screams, impress universe 11 and forced Jiren to act.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Dark

Okay, why is "trained very little" an argument for RoF Goten and Trunks but not ToP Android 18.

Also, it was plainly stated.

 

[Dark649]

Android 18 is an android and her power might also increase on her own, also Gohan said might and was more referring to his current best because Gotenks damaging him may think that they are superior to Ultimate Gohan, which is not the case, lastly in the same episode Roshi took and survived a punch from Tagoma.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Since when does her power increase on her own? That's the first time I ever heard that.

Gohan and Piccolo said he'd be a match for Gohan's peak, not his current best. Gohan's peak is his Ultimate form.

That's an outlier. It doesn't invalidate anything as much as Goku surviving a blast from Soul Zamasu.

 

[Dark649]

That is my speculation explanation about likely future events, this video at 10:28 also describes the situation.

 

[Ryukama]

Isn't the whole point of this thread to not use headcanons to explain away DBS's bullshit scaling? 18 being able to suddenly increase power on her own shouldn't be anything we have for the profiles. We don't want to become the new "18 can absorb energy".

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Exactly. Headcanons like the "Two Base Forms" are the reason we are in this problem.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Sorry, but Kale is 3-A since she was able to break the arena with her screams, impress universe 11 and forced Jiren to act.

I still insist that doesn't make her 3A but a potential threat. Frieza and the others where not impressed. Frieza smiled.

I think that we should wait. Also no God of Destruction was impressed by her like with Goku's SSB.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kale broke the arena. She is 3-A.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Kale is most obviously 3-A here.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^I can't tell if you guys are serious or not...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No I'm serious. Kale when in Berserk mode is a solid 3-A character.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Explain, because I'm not getting how

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Didn't you watch the episode?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The arena is made of Super-Katchin, reinforced Katchin that even the GoDs have a hard time breaking.

Kale cracked the arena without directly attacking it.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^Err, didn't the gods outright cause causal damage to it in their practice match?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

There is also the fact that she ragdolled SSJ2 Goku and walked right through SSB Goku's Kamehameha.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Err, didn't the gods outright cause causal damage to it in their practice match?

They only destroyed the weaker parts of the arena. They enhanced it when they fixed it.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

There is also the fact that she ragdolled SSJ2 Goku and walked right through SSB Goku's Kamehameha.

Again Herms on Twitter confirmed that Goku said he would release a LITTLE bit more of his power (after turning into SSB). That a little should be compared to his SSJ2 form.

He didn't and doesn't in general use SS3 because it has stamina issues. Between SS2 and Blue there is no other form than SS3 but the forms has a lot of drawbacks... So Goku uses Blue for foes > SS2. Also don't forget that Goku can not kill Kale here so he must carefully keep in check the power he uses. Not to mention that he has to preserve it so as to fight Hit and Jiren. Both OP characters.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But guess what SSJ2 will become after this revision? 3-A. i.e Kale is 3-A. Plus her destroying the stadium is also a 3-A feat.

 

[Blanked]

I hope people are not seriously thinking about giving kale 3-A rating from the insane pis against Goku's kamehameha.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why would it have been PIS?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

KOMI, stop talking about this "Little more power" nonsense.

Super Saiyan Blue is extremely more powerful than SSJ1 through SSJ3, the difference is great even if SSJ2 will become 3-A.

Kale has the most blatant 3-A feats so far. Argue with facts, not your feelings of how strong the character is.

 

[Blanked]

Why? Why? One her attack was easily blocked by ss2 Kalulifa, two her attacks couldn't one shot ssj cabba nor ssj goku.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Why would it have been PIS?

Also, many don't take into consideration the power output Goku gives to the tech. Goku's kamehameha was a bit more than his SS2 form could output. That's it. Kale may have potential for more than 4B but right now we can not be sure.

@Mathhew tell that to DBS and Goku who stated in the episode.

 

[Blanked]

If kale was 3-A ssj cabba and goku and ss2 Kalulifa would of been blown to pieces.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Why? Why? One her attack was easily blocked by ss2 Kalulifa, two her attacks couldn't one shot ssj cabba nor ssj goku."

Then SSJ2 Caulifla blocking the attack is PIS.

"One reason to why isn't it pis like seriously goku and Vegeta train for 30 years to become 3-A and this random Loli transforms for the first time in her life and becomes 3-A."

Different Saiyans, different potential, different transformation. Unless Cabba fighting SSJ Vegeta is PIS as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You guys seem to be ignoring the simple fact that a magority of post BoG characters are becoming 3-A...

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Also, to remind you something that is common with our situation. In U6 saga Piccolo, Vegeta and Goku broke each one of them Vados barrier where Champa's attacks didn't make a scratch. Does this make them 3A?

 

[Blanked]

"Why? Why? One her attack was easily blocked by ss2 Kalulifa, two her attacks couldn't one shot ssj cabba nor ssj goku."

Then SSJ2 Caulifla blocking the attack is PIS.

And why wouldn't 3-A kale be PIS instead? As the first thing that happens is Kalulifa blocking her attack. Also Goku in ssj form should of been dead by this point cause he got a direct hit from Kale and there is also cabba being able to keep up with kale.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

To be fair, we don't always rate characters a certain tier for creating small craters in material that's much stronger than normal. For example, we don't rate Satsuki and Ryuko (in Junketsu) as 6-B for cracking/cratering that 6-B ship.

Granted, this is likely a different case, and Kale is very clearly 3-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"One reason to why isn't it pis like seriously goku and Vegeta train for 30 years to become 3-A and this random Loli transforms for the first time in her life and becomes 3-A."

Wow, you are really going to use the "This character is a cute girly girl so she can't be stronger than this manly hunky man" argument.

Go with the feats. Nothing else matter.

Super Saiyan Blue >>>>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan 3 > Super Saiyan 2 > Super Saiyan >>>> Base Goku.

And even Base Goku will be 3-B+

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"And why wouldn't 3-A kale be PIS instead? As the first thing that happens is Kalulifa blocking her attack. Also Goku in ssj form should of been dead by this point cause he got a direct hit from Kale and there is also cabba being able to keep up with kale."

Doesn't matter. Give me a legit reason for the Caulifla deflection to not be PIS. Simply put, Kale is not PIS.