Dragon Ball Super - Super Hero Key and profile additions (SPOILERS!!)

[FluffyCreatureZ]

According to this, Broly would be much stronger if he could control his power. That and I'm pretty sure that's what he's being trained for.

Plus, the same thing happened to Kale, who had the same issue. She was berserk, but became even stronger upon controlling her power. In fact, the two have basically the same transformation

Yeah and he can't and cell max still scales above that. Cell max is completed he just can't be controlled which is why he's stated to be incomplete.

The scaling should go just as

Orange Piccolo >>>> DBSSH Ultimate Gohan >~ FP Gammas ~ DBSSH SSB Goku > Ultimate Piccolo > Initial Gammas ~ DBSB SSB Goku >>>>> "Rusty" SSJ Gohan > Piccolo > Base Gohan ~ Base Goku.

Piccolo compared the initial power of the gammas to SSB Goku, then he was confident as Ultimate/Yellow Piccolo to defeat Gamma 2. or at least Gammas ~ DBSB SSB but Ultimate Piccolo still backscales from him.

Gamma 2's suicide move, Cell Max and Gohan Beast are trickier though.

Orange piccolo scales to cell max. Orange piccolo also has a statement that puts him on the same level as Goku and vegeta.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

This debate wouldn't even be a problem if they were clear with what was intended

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This debate wouldn't even be a problem if they were clear with what was intended

It's dragon ball bro, any kind of power scaling has to be either super ambiguous or inconsistent. If what I heard was true then apparently toriyama despises and refuses to talk about power scaling. He doesn't even write the fights himself, the author doesn't write the fights of a fighting manga.

 

[Aachintya31]

the author doesn't write the fights of a fighting manga.

Then just ignore his scaling statements.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Then just ignore his scaling statements.

That's not the appropriate conclusion you should draw here.

 

[Aachintya31]

That's not the appropriate conclusion you should draw here.

Lol

 

[Godernet]

Could it be argued that Cell Max and Beast Gohan scale above a hypothetical Anime Moro/MUI Goku? since Super Hero takes place after the Granola Arc we at least know that Piccolo saw the end of the Moro fight and that he can sense Godly KI(or at least Moro.) That is at least enough for likely Low 2C for scaling to characters that would be stronger than TOP Jiren and Goku.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Could it be argued that Cell Max and Beast Gohan scale above a hypothetical Anime Moro/MUI Goku? since Super Hero takes place after the Granola Arc we at least know that Piccolo saw the end of the Moro fight and that he can sense Godly KI(or at least Moro.) That is at least enough for likely Low 2C for scaling to characters that would be stronger than TOP Jiren and Goku.

Yes but it's hypothetical so it's all head canon. For all we know, the anime may pull a manga and suddenly jiren doesn't scale to the GoDs anymore nor does broly because of toriyama's moving the goal post BS. Suddenly, MUI Goku is now low 2-C and not 2-C provided that we don't get new feats which is unlikely.

 

[Omegas03]

Thankfully they all scale above Belmod so the at least Low 2-C will still remain whenever they are Beerus level or not

 

[JOLTxx]

The scaling is very simple, how can there be so much discussion?
Cell max is stated by toriyama to be above broly (before you say he wasn't completed, hedo in the movie states that he is completed physically but not mentally so he is still comparable). So cell max, orange piccolo and gohan beast are all "At least low 2-C" and this is the scaling chain:
Gohan beast >> gamma 2 suicide > cell max => broly > orange piccolo.

Next up the gammas. The gammas were stated to be comparable to Goku and vegeta, as of now, goku and vegeta are capped at SSB casually and UI at past the limits. So gammas should at least scale above SSB Goku and Vegeta.
So low 2-C and this scales to the gammas, Super saiyan and ultimage Gohan, base piccolo and potential unleashed piccolo.

And before you say piccolo can't sense Goku and vegeta, he can still sense hikari broly who contest blue Goku and piccolo saw the fight. He could also sense kefla and somehow sign 1 Goku.

Nice,I agree with this. Also for that silly argument that piccolo can't sense Goku and vegeta, if you recall the cell saga, the androids didn't have any ki to sense and piccolo could still tell how strong they are and when he fused with Kami he was confident enough he could contend with them. So even tho ki can't be sensed in Dragonball it doesn't stop characters from having a sense of someone's power, especially if it's someone like piccolo who has done something like that in the past

 

[JOLTxx]

I'm against this beerus downplay I'm seeing... Like if we agree that suppressed jiren>>>Belmond>Beerus then I don't see the point in vegeta Training with beerus because he ought to have surpassed him if we look at it this way.

 

[JOLTxx]

Whis saying Belmod is stronger than Beerus was just based on one arm wrestling game they did. I still think beerus is stronger in combat capabilities

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I'm against this beerus downplay I'm seeing... Like if we agree that suppressed jiren>>>Belmond>Beerus then I don't see the point in vegeta Training with beerus because he ought to have surpassed him if we look at it this way.

Why are you bringing in discussion from that other thread over here?

Whis saying Belmod is stronger than Beerus was just based on one arm wrestling game they did. I still think beerus is stronger in combat capabilities

Are you seriously trusting Beerus' word more than Whis?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Also this thread discusses the anime continuity, which we don't know how things have or will play out. We're discussing things based on how they are in the now

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I'm against this beerus downplay I'm seeing... Like if we agree that suppressed jiren>>>Belmond>Beerus then I don't see the point in vegeta Training with beerus because he ought to have surpassed him if we look at it this way.

Vegeta training with beerus hasn't happened in the anime yet. I am sure this scaling will change once DBS anine comes back.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Vegeta training with beerus hasn't happened in the anime yet. I am sure this scaling will change once DBS anine comes back.

Agreed. And Beerus lvl will get up again but we need to focus on the Super Hero movie thread. Fluffy I think your post is perfect for the scaling.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Where is the idea that Piccolo can't sense godly ki coming from? He outright senses Super Saiyan God Goku struggling against Broly

 

[Aachintya31]

Cell Max being a flat out Low 2-C, I disagree so that's why I'd made a proposal of a "possibly Low 2-C" using WoG statement.

Depends whether they are talking about Base Broly,Ikari/Wrath Broly or FP super saiyan broly.

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

Also I don't like the idea of Gohan being above Broly. Unless they make his Beast form something he can only access in desperation

That’s just stupid baseless reasoning. Yeah it’s might be bad writing but the fact that multiple characters where scaled to Goku level or above like the Gammas via Piccolo or Piccolo himself via Toriyama and Cell Max stated above Broly then you have Cell Max stated above Ultimate Gohan, Orange Piccolo, the Gammas and even Goku and Vegeta all working together like the movie said.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That’s just stupid baseless reasoning. Yeah it’s might be bad writing but the fact that multiple characters where scaled to Goku level or above like the Gammas via Piccolo or Piccolo himself via Toriyama and Cell Max stated above Broly then you have Cell Max stated above Ultimate Gohan, Orange Piccolo, the Gammas and even Goku and Vegeta all working together like the movie said.

I was saying that as a personal gripe not an actual argument...

 

[Eseseso]

So can the low 2-c stuff now be added?

 

[MrLuk2000]

So I'm gonna reiterate the results we perhaps agree on?

Gammas 1 & 2 are "At least 3-A" with Gamma 2 is Low 2-C via full power

Gohan is "At least 3-A, Low 2-C as Gohan Beast"

Piccolo is "3-A, Low 2-C as Orange Piccolo"

Cell Max is "Low 2-C"

Anything else I'm missing?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Iirc some people were arguing Low 2-C Gamma 1 and 2 cause of Piccolo comparing them to Goku and Vegeta or something.

 

[MrLuk2000]

I have made the changes to Gamma 2 and Piccolo. If anyone could go over them to see if it looks good, it would be much appreciated

I even made a note to Piccolo's profile, but if anyone thinks it needs an improvement/rewording or not necessary, then feel free to either fix it or remove it

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Do the Gammas scale to DBS Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue or DBS Super Hero Super Saiyan Blue?

 

[AguilaR202]

End of ToP Blues are low 2-C so apparently to neither, not that I disagree but there is enough space for everyone relevant to be Low 2-C and have the in universe scaling make sense.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

End of ToP Blues are low 2-C so apparently to neither, not that I disagree but there is enough space for everyone relevant to be Low 2-C and have the in universe scaling make sense.

Piccolo compares their battle power to Goku and Vegeta (and though he visualizes their base forms that couldn't have been the literal implication because he should be far stronger than their base forms as he has been training for the past three years like they have), so they are most likely Super Saiyan Blue level

However, Goku and Vegeta are stated to be on par with Orange Piccolo, most likely in their Super Saiyan Blue forms

Which seems off because the Gammas scale to them but this can be remedied by differentiating between Broly Movie Blue and Super Hero Blue

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Seem to have answered my own question there. They most likely scale to Broly Saga Blue because that's the most recent known data they could possibly scale to and they cannot harm Orange Piccolo at all (who a present day Super Saiyan Blue is equal to)

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

What it looks like to me so far

Low 2-C: Super Saiyan Gohan < DBS Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue ~ Initial Gammas < Ultimate Piccolo < Serious Gammas < Ultimate Gohan

At least Low 2-C: DBS SH Super Saiyan Blue/Orange Piccolo < Cell Max (vaguely scales to Broly) =< Gamma 2's suicide attack <<< Beast Gohan

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

So can the low 2-c stuff now be added?

Agreed they already did the gammas and Cell Max they just need Gohan Beast and Piccolo low 2-C upgrade

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

What it looks like to me so far

Low 2-C: Super Saiyan Gohan < DBS Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue ~ Initial Gammas < Ultimate Piccolo < Serious Gammas < Ultimate Gohan

At least Low 2-C: DBS SH Super Saiyan Blue/Orange Piccolo < Cell Max (vaguely scales to Broly) =< Gamma 2's suicide attack <<< Beast Gohan

This^ MrLuk2000 this is the scaling I believe most agree.

 

[Aachintya31]

What it looks like to me so far

Low 2-C: Super Saiyan Gohan < DBS Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue ~ Initial Gammas < Ultimate Piccolo < Serious Gammas < Ultimate Gohan

At least Low 2-C: DBS SH Super Saiyan Blue/Orange Piccolo < Cell Max (vaguely scales to Broly) =< Gamma 2's suicide attack <<< Beast Gohan

Where do u keep beerus

 

[Omegas03]

So why are the gammas 3-A

Its pretty damn clear they are Blue tier.

 

[Omegas03]

Piccolo should also be Low 2-C with potential Unleashed as hes still somewhat relative to the Gammas

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So I'm gonna reiterate the results we perhaps agree on?

Gammas 1 & 2 are "At least 3-A" with Gamma 2 is Low 2-C via full power

Gohan is "At least 3-A, Low 2-C as Gohan Beast"

Piccolo is "3-A, Low 2-C as Orange Piccolo"

Cell Max is "Low 2-C"

Anything else I'm missing?

What? Who the hell agreed on this?
This is the correct scaling.

What it looks like to me so far

Low 2-C: Super Saiyan Gohan < DBS Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue ~ Initial Gammas < Ultimate Piccolo < Serious Gammas < Ultimate Gohan

At least Low 2-C: DBS SH Super Saiyan Blue/Orange Piccolo < Cell Max (vaguely scales to Broly) =< Gamma 2's suicide attack <<< Beast Gohan

 

[Aachintya31]

I guess this > should be replaced with ~

 

[Eseseso]

Wait, why is SSJ Gohan Low 2-C if he is below the Gammas and SSJB level people?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Wait, why is SSJ Gohan Low 2-C if he is below the Gammas and SSJB level people?

Because he can harm a casual Gamma 1 who is most likely Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue level

 

[Eseseso]

Because he can harm a casual Gamma 1 who is most likely Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue level

Eh, how much did he harm and hold his own against him?

Was it one minor blow or was it more?

 

[Spinoirr]

Im sure Dokkan will give us good renders of beast Gohan and orange piccolo