Dragon Ball Super - Super Hero Key and profile additions (SPOILERS!!)

[Sir_Marvulous]

Eh, how much did he harm and hold his own against him?

Was it one minor blow or was it more?

From what I can recall he was notably holding his own

 

[Eseseso]

From what I can recall he was notably holding his own

Oh ok then, Low 2-C is fine then.

My bad, just making sure that the Low 2-C's all actually deserved it.

 

[Aachintya31]

Can goku defeat beast gohan?

 

[Kin201]

Can goku defeat beast gohan?

If Beast Gohan has to fight Goku who can use UI in the movie, I think Goku still beats him.

 

[Aachintya31]

If Beast Gohan has to fight Goku who can use UI in the movie, I think Goku still beats him.

White hair vs Longer white hair
I think its like cell saga WHERE SSJ2 Gohan was stronger than everyone.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

The agreed upon scaling actually aligns very well with the statement that Goku is close to being a god during the Broly movie cuz Super Hero is three years after that so him crossing that benchmark makes sense

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not disagreeing with Low 2-C ratings; especially for Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, Gohan Beast, and Gamma 2's final attack, but I feel as if directly comparing them to how strong Broly was at his peak is rather iffy until we see further demonstration. Goku, Vegeta, and Broly should still be Low 2-C even in the base forms at this point for sure; given Goku already has hints of a Low 2-C base form back in the Broly movie via initially matching Wrath state Broly who stomped SSB Vegeta right off the bat. Vegeta eventually trained and surpassed base Goku even in his own base form after learning some degree of Ultra Instinct. Broly is also implied to have gotten much stronger even in his relaxed state via sparring with Goku and was able to keep up and grow from watching Goku and Vegeta fight and meditating.

There's even a vague statement from Goku that implies his strongest forms have gotten stronger to the point where he doubts Beerus or Whis could stop his wrath state. He should definitely be stronger than Beerus at his peak, though Whis comparisons are questionable.

Though, Piccolo has some doubts of Goku and Vegeta putting a stop to Cell Max even if they were there despite being the one who teaches them Fusion Dance and knowing how strong SSB's are, but he may not be aware of how much they grew. But it should minimum be above ToP era SSB's which are within the Low 2-C ball park.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Orange Piccolo (and therefore Super Saiyan Blue cuz they're stated to be equal) was able to throw down with and restrain Cell Max even after being critically injured

Cell Max vaguely scales to Broly because his physical body is complete, which we believe ties to Toriyama's statement

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Another thing, I think Orange Piccolo could have beaten Cell Max by himself if he wanted to and should be above Gamma 2. He faked his death just to motivate Gohan because he didn't want Gohan to be neglecting his training. He could have just restrained him with one arm and uses his other arm for Special Beam cannon to finish the fight as a last resort.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Another thing, I think Orange Piccolo could have beaten Cell Max by himself if he wanted to and should be above Gamma 2. He faked his death just to motivate Gohan because he didn't want Gohan to be neglecting his training. He could have just restrained him with one arm and uses his other arm for Special Beam cannon to finish the fight as a last resort.

While he wanted to motivate Gohan the stakes imply it was only the beast at that point that could've killed Cell Max

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

So why are the gammas 3-A

Its pretty damn clear they are Blue tier.

I agree they should also be low 2-C and where stated to be the strongest androids so above 17 who’s already low 2-C

 

[Nullflowerblush]

with barriers.

 

[Lacku]

idk if anybody has made a sandbox for Gohan yet but I've been working on one here (ignore the mcu sandboxes btw)

Love & Thunder sandboxes

vsbattles.fandom.com

I've only revamped his renders so far but I thought I'd share the sandbox here before I make any changes to his AP, dura, etc. Have we agreed on any values for Gohan in particular yet?

 

[Mageman460]

I don't think anyone asked this ... but they did technically show up in the movie.
Do Goten/Trunks deserve a new key for the movie? They were more confident going up against Cell Max then Krillin, so the two of them can scale over him. Gotenks should also get a Low 2-C Durability for tanking the attack that cracked Cell Max's head. In a failed fusion too. Gotenks in a not failed state should be higher with is AP scaling to his durability because of how ki works I guess?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Gotenks hit Cell Max's weak point.

 

[Mageman460]

Gotenks hit Cell Max's weak point.

It's not a weak point because of less durability, but because breaking it kills Cell Max. That was also the first actual damage done to Cell Max if I remember correctly.

 

[luis3333]

I'm not disagreeing with Low 2-C ratings; especially for Cell Max, Orange Piccolo, Gohan Beast, and Gamma 2's final attack, but I feel as if directly comparing them to how strong Broly was at his peak is rather iffy until we see further demonstration. Goku, Vegeta, and Broly should still be Low 2-C even in the base forms at this point for sure; given Goku already has hints of a Low 2-C base form back in the Broly movie via initially matching Wrath state Broly who stomped SSB Vegeta right off the bat. Vegeta eventually trained and surpassed base Goku even in his own base form after learning some degree of Ultra Instinct. Broly is also implied to have gotten much stronger even in his relaxed state via sparring with Goku and was able to keep up and grow from watching Goku and Vegeta fight and meditating.

There's even a vague statement from Goku that implies his strongest forms have gotten stronger to the point where he doubts Beerus or Whis could stop his wrath state. He should definitely be stronger than Beerus at his peak, though Whis comparisons are questionable.

Though, Piccolo has some doubts of Goku and Vegeta putting a stop to Cell Max even if they were there despite being the one who teaches them Fusion Dance and knowing how strong SSB's are, but he may not be aware of how much they grew. But it should minimum be above ToP era SSB's which are within the Low 2-C ball park.

bills at no time is intimidated by broly or surprised by what simply goku's statement can be quite dubious

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Fat Gotenks is weaker than Goten and Trunks individually. There is not a single timeline in existence where a rusty Goten and Trunks' failed fusion suddenly jumped from 4-B to Low 2-C.

The gem Cell Max adorns atop his head, evidently, is extra vulnerable to damage than the rest of his body, as Ultimate Piccolo, who is further than one-shotting distance away from Orange Piccolo and even further away from Giant Orange Piccolo, could deal Max great harm by shooting him in his head.

 

[luis3333]

gohan is comparable if not stronger than goku blue and vegeta blue base of the tournament that already climb to low 2c who range held up quite well against this same

 

[luis3333]

I guess it should be taken as a comical moment

 

[Mageman460]

Fat Gotenks is weaker than Goten and Trunks individually. There is not a single timeline in existence where a rusty Goten and Trunks' failed fusion suddenly jumped from 4-B to Low 2-C.

The gem Cell Max adorns atop his head, evidently, is extra vulnerable to damage than the rest of his body, as Ultimate Piccolo, who is further than one-shotting distance away from Orange Piccolo and even further away from Giant Orange Piccolo, could deal Max great harm by shooting him in his head.

Where is it said that failed Gotenks is < Goten and Trunks?
Also, the only thing confirmed to be rusty about Goten and Trunks is their fusion technique. At least as far as I remember.
Gotenks being slammed into the head is what cracked it.

Gohan jumps from 4-B to 3-A after becoming rusty and then re awakening the SAME transformation. And then he jumps from 3-A to Low 2-C after becoming rusty AGAIN in this movie.

I mean, Gotenks took an attack that cracked Cell's dome, while Ultimate Piccolo only caused him pain. Even if the dome has vastly lower durability, then Gotenks's durability should still scale above Ultimate Piccolo's AP.

I'm just suggesting maybe a Possibly Low 2-C for Gotenks.

Though I am also curious on what you think about Goten and Trunks getting new keys for this movie?

Edit: 3-A Gotenks, I misremembered and thought the Gammas and others scaling to them were Low 2-C my bad.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Where is it said that failed Gotenks is < Goten and Trunks?

Fat Gotenks is physically inept, Old Gotenks is geriatric, and the Daizenshuu 7 confirms that failing the Fusion Dance "[makes] them weaker instead of stronger".

Gohan jumps from 4-B to 3-A after becoming rusty and then re awakening the SAME transformation.

The transformation that allows him to continuously tap into his bottomless dormant power. Besides, Gohan was still being trained on and off by Piccolo following the Tournament of Destroyers, whereas Goten and Trunks were suggested to have been lounging about for the past three years, which is consistent with their portrayal in the epilogue of the original manga.

Anyway, my point with bringing up that they were rusty was to establish that their power now would only be marginally different than their power at the end of the Super anime series, which itself is only marginally different than their power at the end of the Majin Buu Conflict.

I mean, Gotenks took an attack that cracked Cell's dome, while Ultimate Piccolo only caused him pain.

Considering Cell Max was forced to regenerate the damage and how the scene was depicted, Piccolo more than likely destroyed part of his head. I'll pull up the clip later.

Though I am also curious on what you think about Goten and Trunks getting new keys for this movie?

Sure.

 

[Mageman460]

Fat Gotenks is physically inept, Old Gotenks is geriatric, and the Daizenshuu 7 confirms that failing the Fusion Dance "[makes] them weaker instead of stronger".

Thanks, that's unfortunate. Here's where I just say "that means Goten and Trunks are 3-A too." jk
Though tbf, the Fat Gotenks scan does seem to be more of a stamina thing, which didn't seem to be an issue in the movie.

The transformation that allows him to continuously tap into his bottomless dormant power. Besides, Gohan was still being trained on and off by Piccolo following the Tournament of Destroyers, whereas Goten and Trunks were suggested to have been lounging about for the past three years, which is consistent with their portrayal in the epilogue of the original manga.

I honestly forgot that Gohan was still being trained by Piccolo between the Tournaments tbh.

Anyway, my point with bringing up that they were rusty was to establish that their power now would only be marginally different than their power at the end of the Super anime series, which itself is only marginally different than their power at the end of the Majin Buu Conflict.

Why must Super forget the small half-saiyans ...

Considering Cell Max was forced to regenerate the damage and how the scene was depicted, Piccolo more than likely destroyed part of his head. I'll pull up the clip later.

Please do, because I don't remember Cell Max regenerating.

But yeah, this sufficiently debunks 3-A/Low 2-C Gotenks so I'll drop it.

 

[luis3333]

el número 17 no tiene 2c bajo y se ha confirmado que los rangos son más fuertes, no deberían subir a la cima de la explosión

 

[PLEASE]

Another thing, I think Orange Piccolo could have beaten Cell Max by himself if he wanted to and should be above Gamma 2. He faked his death just to motivate Gohan because he didn't want Gohan to be neglecting his training. He could have just restrained him with one arm and uses his other arm for Special Beam cannon to finish the fight as a last resort.

There is no evidence to support that he can.It won't make sense. In the end, Gohan is not unsure Vegeta and Goku can defeat Cell.If Piccolo can beat Cell, then why would Gohan say that?

 

[Aachintya31]

There is no evidence to support that he can.It won't make sense. In the end, Gohan is not unsure Vegeta and Goku can defeat Cell.If Piccolo can beat Cell, then why would Gohan say that?

Because orange piccolo > Goku and vegeta

 

[Eseseso]

Can we add Gohan's movie key yet?

 

[Kin201]

Sandbox for Gohan Beast page?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

So are the Gammas Low 2-C?

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

So are the Gammas Low 2-C?

They have the Gammas as Low 2-C with final attack even though they should be Low 2-C normally since there compared to Goku and there stated the strongest androids

 

[Lacku]

Sandbox for Gohan Beast page?

I’m in the process of making one but I’ve only done his renders so far and I’m waiting to hear what ratings we’ve all agreed on for him to have in his new key too, obviously gohan beast will be low 2-C but are we going to rate his base form, super saiyan and potential unleashed states the same as ToP or are there going to be any differences?

Love & Thunder sandboxes

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Kin201]

Low 2-C: Super Saiyan Gohan < DBS Broly Movie Super Saiyan Blue ~ Initial Gammas < Ultimate Piccolo < Serious Gammas < Ultimate Gohan
At least Low 2-C: DBS SH Super Saiyan Blue/Orange Piccolo < Cell Max (vaguely scales to Broly) =< Gamma 2's suicide attack <<< Beast Gohan

I think this is what was agreed upon. Ask mods to have a look (if they haven't done it already).

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why is Super Saiyan Gohan the weakest in the chain when he was decently holding his own against a serious Gamma 1? Gamma 1 only began to overwhelm Gohan after battling him for a prolonged period and becoming adjusted to his movies.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Oh, hey, the page for Gamma 2 claims that he has Limitless stamina which is blatantly incorrect. The justification for said rating even mentions that the Gammas run off of an exhaustible power supply which is completely antithetical to the concept of limitless stamina.

At best, this would be Resistance to Sleep Manipulation, as Gamma 1 stated that, as Androids, the two do not feel fatigue.

 

[Kin201]

Yeah, these two androids are stated to have limited stamina.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Why is Super Saiyan Gohan the weakest in the chain when he was decently holding his own against a serious Gamma 1? Gamma 1 only began to overwhelm Gohan after battling him for a prolonged period and becoming adjusted to his movies.

Because during the fight he notes Gohan's strength as a Super Saiyan being "within expectations" and was unconcerned. All the hits he took ultimately weren't significant

Also you can be weaker than someone and still be able to hold your own against them

 

[Nullflowerblush]

All the hits he took weren't significant in the long run

The damage may not have been significant, but Gohan still managed to wrestle with a serious Gamma 1 and exchange blows with him.

The scaling chain places Gohan two places below Ultimate Piccolo, which, evidently, does not appear to be the case, considering, yes, Piccolo did hold his own against a serious Gamma 2 but was quickly overwhelmed, even admitting that he would not have been able to keep pace with Gamma 2 two in the end.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Also at that point the Gammas weren't at full power. They only start exerting themself once the duo take on their ultimate states

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Oh, hey, the page for Gamma 2 claims that he has Limitless stamina which is blatantly incorrect. The justification for said rating even mentions that the Gammas run off of an exhaustible power supply which is completely antithetical to the concept of limitless stamina.

At best, this would be Resistance to Sleep Manipulation, as Gamma 1 stated that, as Androids, the two do not feel fatigue.

Android 17 and 18 have limitless stamina for the same reason lol

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

They’re androids