Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero | 2-C Goten, Trunks, Gotenks, and Majin Buu

[Sir_Marvulous]

Goten and Trunks
Goten and Trunks are confident that they can help against Cell Max.

For comparison, 18 is nowhere near as confident.

Krillin doesn't even consider the idea at all.

Additionally, Cell Max powering up threw Krillin off of the ground, but didn't do that to Goten nor Trunks.

The boys can fight competently against Cell Max better than 18, who at one point was nearly killed.

This proves they're above 18 and Krillin.

They even fight competently alongside Gohan and Piccolo.

A failed Gotenks was able to damage Cell Max's weak point, something that Potential Unleashed Piccolo couldn't do.

This should put Base Goten and Trunks at 2-C. Since their fusion, who shouldn't be worlds stronger than them as Super Saiyans due to being a failed fusion, is stronger than Potential Unleashed Piccolo, and because they can maintain a fight against Cell Max in a comparable manner to Gohan and Piccolo without any particular trouble (as opposed to 18 who nearly got killed), its reasonable to assume that individually they're about as strong as Base Gohan.

Majin Buu
In the same scene that Piccolo talks about the threat of the Gamma Androids, he implies that Majin Buu would be able to fight against them.

Buu should be outright 2-C. If not, then possibly/likely 2-C

 

[KingNanaya]

if only krillen helped out

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

So what I’m gathering

Goten and Trunks helped out against Cell Max and did better than Android 18 so Goten and Trunks>18 (Who’s 2-C)

And Majin Buu is 2-C because Piccolo said he would be able to help out against the Gammas but he’s hibernating making him in the 2-C ballpark as well

I probably agree with the crt then

(though I feel like Buu should scale to base Goku but Ignore this since it’s a discussion rule)

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

So what I’m gathering

Goten and Trunks helped out against Cell Max and did better than Android 18 so Goten and Trunks>18 (Who’s 2-C)

That's the evidence that they're stronger than 18. The scaling comes from the fact that their fusion is superior to Potential Unleashed Piccolo, which should put them on the level of base Gohan

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

That's the evidence that they're stronger than 18. The scaling comes from the fact that their fusion is superior to Potential Unleashed Piccolo, which should put them on the level of base Gohan

So
Goten & Trunks>Android 18

Gotenks>PU Piccolo

Gotenks would be 2-C either way

I don’t see how goten and trunks scale to base gohan though atp in the series they’d be above BoG Goku so there’s no way Ssj goten or trunks individually<Base Gotenks

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

So
Goten & Trunks>Android 18

Gotenks>PU Piccolo

Gotenks would be 2-C either way

I don’t see how goten and trunks scale to base gohan though atp in the series they’d be above BoG Goku so there’s no way Ssj goten or trunks individually<Base Gotenks

Base Gotenks would be > his fusees as Super Saiyans. Using multipliers, that would put the boys in base on a similar level to base Gohan

The difference between the Gotenks we saw and his fusees should not be bigger than a Super Saiyan multiplier considering it was a failed fusion

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I definitely fully agree with you, the CRT was very good

 

[Quintessence_PE]

I agree it looks good

 

[Omegas03]

Wait serious question about this


Are Fat Gotenks/Gogeta still stronger than the maximum power of their respective components? say Fat Gotenks > SSJ Kids? M12 Veku > SSJ3 Goku?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Wait serious question about this


Are Fat Gotenks/Gogeta still stronger than the maximum power of their respective components? say Fat Gotenks > SSJ Kids?

That's what is suggested in the movie

 

[Omegas03]

The fact that all those guys even mantained a bit of a fight against Cell Max is ridiculous, but if showings do suggest Base Goten/Trunks > 18 who's already 2-C I do agree with 2-C rating at least by scaling to 18, scaling to Gohan is probs debatable but seems alright.

Majin Buu being 2-C should already be a thing ever since the ToP due to Goku v Buu but this probably is good evidence for a likely rating I agree there's no way DBSSH thinks 18 > Buu.

EDIT: it's so ******* funny to think Base Goten would probably shitstomp initial ToP SSBKKx20 Goku due to sheer scaling

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Forgot to mention that this would obviously warrant a new key for all of the mentioned characters

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

EDIT: it's so ******* funny to think Base Goten would probably shitstomp initial ToP SSBKKx20 Goku due to sheer scaling

Dragon Ball power creep goes crazy

 

[Omegas03]

So we get

Fat Gotenks > Ultimate Piccolo > SSJ Gohan/Goten/Trunks >> Initial Gammas > Base Gohan ~ Base Piccolo ~ Base Goten/Trunks >>>>> 18 / more or less equal to her ToP self.

Buu being at least in the level of Initial Gammas?

 

[Nierre]

Dragonball constantly reminding people that power creeps trump all and that they dgaf about what makes sense lol

Following

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

wait, the profile of Goten and Trunks is from Manga? Shouldn't we wait until the whole saga is adapted?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Buu being at least in the level of Initial Gammas?

Yes, although since Piccolo is suggested to have known the Gammas were holding back, he may very well be higher

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

wait, the profile of Goten and Trunks is from Manga? Shouldn't we wait until the whole saga is adapted?

This is using the movie, which is a direct continuation of the DBS anime, which follows the original Dragon Ball manga. We don't need to wait for the DBS manga to adapt the Super Hero saga

In fact, Goten and Trunks already have their DBS Super Hero renders on their profiles

 

[Omegas03]

I would totally believe that Buu would have been shown at least SSJ if not Ultimate Gohan tier but it's safer to assume Initial Gamma lvl ig

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Agreed

 

[SwordLegendz01]

Seems fine, I agree.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I agree with it but a likely for Majin Buu.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

EDIT: it's so ******* funny to think Base Goten would probably shitstomp initial ToP SSBKKx20 Goku due to sheer scaling

You see
FUNNY
Wouldn't be the word that I'd use,
it's more like
"Oh my god, Dragon Ball Super has such bad powerscaling writing that even someshit like this is possible just so the characters can keep being relevant for the sake of power creep, Toriyama has no talent after Z"


...
Or something shorter, I don't know!!!​

 

[CloverDragon03]

"Oh my god, Dragon Ball Super has such bad powerscaling writing that even someshit like this is possible just so the characters can keep being relevant for the sake of power creep, Toriyama has no talent after Z"​

You say this but I just know you and many others would also be complaining if Super remained the Goku and Vegeta show

There's no winning here. People just complain a bunch

As for the OP itself, I'm iffy on the Fat Gotenks part because that only happened after being ping-ponged a bunch by Cell Max, Android 18, and Gamma 1

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Agree.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

You say this but I just know you and many others would also be complaining if Super remained the Goku and Vegeta show

There's no winning here.

It takes no effort to write a story that doesn't power creep (for no reason)
and doesn't make it the "Goku and Vegeta show"

Seriously, just "Gohan decided to train with Whis"
any justification would suffice.

The thing is they don't even try anymore.
Character are just strong because they need to be strong.

Again, SSJ2 Gohan was a whole three-arc set up since Saiyan Saga that culminated on that beautiful scene.
It was just "unlocking transformation to win", but it had layers to it.

I don't take DB seriously anymore.


With that said, I acknowledge DBS is bad enough for OP to make sense.
I agree.​

 

[CloverDragon03]

This should put Base Goten and Trunks at 2-C. Since their fusion, who should be stronger than them as Super Saiyans, is stronger than Potential Unleashed Piccolo, its reasonable to assume that individually they're about as strong as Base Gohan.

Well not only do I not agree with Fat Gotenks being stronger than Potential Unleashed Piccolo, but the idea that this makes them individually Base Gohan level is like... purely conjectural

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

As for the OP itself, I'm iffy on the Fat Gotenks part because that only happened after being ping-ponged a bunch by Cell Max, Android 18, and Gamma 1

Piccolo says this right after

Its pretty clear that its the fusion that did it

Well not only do I not agree with Fat Gotenks being stronger than Potential Unleashed Piccolo, but the idea that this makes them individually Base Gohan level is like... purely conjectural

I'd agree if this wasn't a FAILED Gotenks, who should not at all be worlds stronger than Goten and Trunks as Super Saiyans

 

[CloverDragon03]

Piccolo says this right after

Its pretty clear that its the fusion that did it

It just says the failed fusion "has come in handy." That doesn't specify what that means.

I'd agree if this wasn't a FAILED Gotenks, who should not be worlds stronger than Goten and Trunks as Super Saiyans

Even still, where's the link between Goten and Trunks and Base Gohan? You're creating a link that isn't there

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

It just says the failed fusion "has come in handy." That doesn't specify what that means.

I don't see why there's a need to elaborate on what that means. It should be VERY clear

In fact, after getting spiked, he takes charge of his flight and rams into Cell Max's head. I don't see why you're trying to extrapolate him getting volleyball-spiked

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't see why there's a need to elaborate on what that means. It should be VERY clear

It could mean a lot of things, especially in this case when the crack doesn't even come from Gotenks's power. It comes from Cell Max, 18, and finally Gamma 1 ping-ponging him around

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Just because it can doesn't mean its most likely, especially considering Piccolos specifically mentions the fusion

 

[CloverDragon03]

Just because it can doesn't mean its most likely, especially considering Piccolos specifically mentions the fusion

Riddle me this: Was Gotenks cracking Cell Max's head something he did with his own power?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Riddle me this: Was Gotenks cracking Cell Max's head something he did with his own power?

Clearly that's what's suggested since it was HIS BODY that did the damage and he was specifically called out by Piccolo

 

[CloverDragon03]

Clearly that's what's suggested since it was HIS BODY that did the damage and he was specifically called out by Piccolo

Even though it's not him attacking, but rather Gamma 1 launching him into Cell Max's head?

Which would show that Gamma 1 > Ultimate Piccolo, which is very much true...

If I throw you at something, is that your power or mine? It's mine because I put in enough energy to throw you at a certain speed

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Even though it's not him attacking, but rather Gamma 1 launching him into Cell Max's head?

Which would show that Gamma 1 > Ultimate Piccolo, which is very much true...

I think the fact that his body withstood the damage that was dealt proves a lot considering newton's third law

Also Ultimate Piccolo isn't overwhelmingly weaker than the Gammas and put up a pretty good fight against Gamma 2, so it seems more like Gotenks was the bigger factor

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also Ultimate Piccolo isn't overwhelmingly weaker than the Gammas and still put up a pretty good fight against Gamma 2, so it seems more like Gotenks was the bigger factor

He was very much being overwhelmed by Gamma 2 at full power so mehhhh

I think the fact that his body withstood the damage that was dealt proves a lot considering newton's third law

At best that's durability, which would make sense since Fat Gotenks survived several attacks from Cell Max, but even then that's iffy

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

He was very much being overwhelmed by Gamma 2 at full power so mehhhh

Rewatch the scene. He was still putting up a tough fight

 

[CloverDragon03]

Rewatch the scene. He was still putting up a tough fight

I've seen this fight three times now. Once Gamma 2 went full power (especially after he was trying to deny what Piccolo was saying about the Red Ribbon Army), Piccolo was getting his ass kicked and had to go Orange Piccolo

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I've seen this fight three times now. Once Gamma 2 went full power (especially after he was trying to deny what Piccolo was saying about the Red Ribbon Army), Piccolo was getting his ass kicked and had to go Orange Piccolo

Gamma 2 was going full power from the start of the fight. Piccolo although overwhelmed managed to get some good hits in