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Hi, it's me. I felt I should make this at some point, as I'd developed some grievances with this ability toward the end of the thread that it was accepted in, but I didn't want to be the guy spontaneously bringing up problems in a concluded thread. So, here's my response thread on the Grand Priest's Conceptual Manipulation. The thread in which this was accepted can be found here.
The overall premise is that the Grand Priest added the concept of time to the World of Void, which is once stated to be devoid of time and space, and is stated to lack the concepts of time and space in a guide released in Brazil and Spain. This guide was argued to be perfectly fine to use too, as it gives credit to Toei Animation and is given greater credibility through this website, which says the following (translated):
This all seems well and good, but I did find some problems with this, especially for a major ability like this. As such, I'd like to discuss them, and potentially remove this ability from the Grand Priest.
Problem 1: "Time and Space" vs. "The Concepts of Time and Space"
Despite being called "Problem 1," this is by far the lesser of the two problems with this addition. I wanted to save the bigger issue for last, so for now, I'll be starting with this. Obviously, time and space is a different beast compared to the concepts of time and space. As such, it's important to decide... Which one is being referred to, in the context of the World of Void? The thing is, I believe that simple "time and space" is being referred to, rather than their concepts, if we go by the priority of the canon material.
To begin with, the guide released in Brazil and Spain is much lower in terms of priority, given that it's a supplemental guide as opposed to the actual anime simply saying the World of Void lacks time and space, rather than their concepts. Not to mention, I'm not exactly sure what the above description of BIG BANG means for canonicity purposes.
But, even putting that aside...
Problem 2: Did the Grand Priest Actually Introduce a Concept of Time?
The short answer is: No, at least I don't think so.
Basically, the Grand Priest was agreed to have added the concept of time to a void with no concept of time. Even putting aside the aforementioned issue, though, I don't think this is the case. This scene demonstrates my point perfectly, so I'll cover the important parts about it here:
For a potent ability like this, I think the evidence in its favor is very shaky at best. It could be argued, but I don't think it's the most favorable interpretation myself. As such, I'd like to remove the Grand Priest's Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.
And well... That's about it. So, as per usual, I now open the floor for y'all to discuss!
Agree: Maverick_Zero_X (possibly Space-Time Manipulation), Damage3245 (possibly Space-Time Manipulation), DarkDragonMedeus (leaning, not definitive), Deagonx (is okay with possibly Space-Time Manipulation if need be), Planck69 (fine with "possibly" too), GarrixianXD (possibly Space-Time Manipulation)
Disagree:
Neutral:
(Bolded names indicate evaluating staff)
The overall premise is that the Grand Priest added the concept of time to the World of Void, which is once stated to be devoid of time and space, and is stated to lack the concepts of time and space in a guide released in Brazil and Spain. This guide was argued to be perfectly fine to use too, as it gives credit to Toei Animation and is given greater credibility through this website, which says the following (translated):
BIG BANG was born in 2008 in Santiago de Chile, dreaming of entertaining children, young people and adults, awakening their creative and social spirit. It is a creative and dynamic company, with a human, passionate team and a wealth of experience in its work. Recognized by licensees and prominent companies for being avant-garde in design and quality, focused on developing licenses through collectibles, albums, card games and promotional activities that are always back on trend and the simplest form of entertainment, in the territory of Chile and other countries in the region.
This all seems well and good, but I did find some problems with this, especially for a major ability like this. As such, I'd like to discuss them, and potentially remove this ability from the Grand Priest.
Problem 1: "Time and Space" vs. "The Concepts of Time and Space"
Despite being called "Problem 1," this is by far the lesser of the two problems with this addition. I wanted to save the bigger issue for last, so for now, I'll be starting with this. Obviously, time and space is a different beast compared to the concepts of time and space. As such, it's important to decide... Which one is being referred to, in the context of the World of Void? The thing is, I believe that simple "time and space" is being referred to, rather than their concepts, if we go by the priority of the canon material.
To begin with, the guide released in Brazil and Spain is much lower in terms of priority, given that it's a supplemental guide as opposed to the actual anime simply saying the World of Void lacks time and space, rather than their concepts. Not to mention, I'm not exactly sure what the above description of BIG BANG means for canonicity purposes.
But, even putting that aside...
Problem 2: Did the Grand Priest Actually Introduce a Concept of Time?
The short answer is: No, at least I don't think so.
Basically, the Grand Priest was agreed to have added the concept of time to a void with no concept of time. Even putting aside the aforementioned issue, though, I don't think this is the case. This scene demonstrates my point perfectly, so I'll cover the important parts about it here:
- The pillar drops, and only then does the Grand Priest make note of the time that has elapsed
- The Grand Priest raises his hand after declaring the tournament half over, and then the background changes - after he does the hand raise.
For a potent ability like this, I think the evidence in its favor is very shaky at best. It could be argued, but I don't think it's the most favorable interpretation myself. As such, I'd like to remove the Grand Priest's Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.
And well... That's about it. So, as per usual, I now open the floor for y'all to discuss!
Agree: Maverick_Zero_X (possibly Space-Time Manipulation), Damage3245 (possibly Space-Time Manipulation), DarkDragonMedeus (leaning, not definitive), Deagonx (is okay with possibly Space-Time Manipulation if need be), Planck69 (fine with "possibly" too), GarrixianXD (possibly Space-Time Manipulation)
Disagree:
Neutral:
(Bolded names indicate evaluating staff)
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