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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 71

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Zamasu, due to his immortal side, could still regen. As shown after Trunks cut him with his sword and Vegito impaled him. The reason Vegito couldn't kill him was due to said regen and PIS. The arc was set up so Trunks could get the win with an ending that made no sense and retconned a strongly believed fact. So, Trunks random friendship boost shouldn't be a factor as it belongs with the rest of Super's bad power scaling. No one should have been able to kill him due to his regen if Vegito at the time couldn't going by actual powerscaling.

I thought it was nice for a fusion (between Goku and Vegeta) to do a good job against an equal opponent for once or even have an opponent at equal strength.
 
@Watren Vallon The only reason Vegito stomped Fusion Zamasu in the manga was because both Future Zamasu and Goku Black were fodders which makes the Fusion weaker. In the anime Post-scythe Goku Black > Future Trunks Saga SSBKKx10 Goku and Future Zamasu was somewhat comparable to early Future Trunks Saga SSB which was why Vegito had a hard time beating Fusion Zamasu since his fusees were overall only slightly stronger compared to Fusion Zamasu's fusees if you add their powers together.

Although Future Trunks getting his time to shine is also probably a factor. And yeah the finale of the Future Trunks Saga was pretty bad.
 
I still think Goku Black should have slowly came around to the idea of being a Saiyan than a god because that would have been interesting development for such a villain. It also could've lead to an interesting fight between two Gokus who recognize themselves as Saiyans.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Something like SS4? LSSJ design is also good while we are at it.
Anything but a freaking SSJ with blue hair.
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Broly's design of his Oozaru power harnessed form is pretty similar to SSJ4 without the fur. I kinda like that design.
 
Well composite Goku has

Great Ape, Kaioken, Pseudo Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Second Grade, Super Saiyan Third Grade, Super Saiyan Full Power, Spirit Bomb Super Saiyan, Super (Saiyan) Kaioken, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Golden Great Ape, Super Saiyan 4, Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Perfect Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken, Super Saiyan Berserk, Ultra Instinct Sign, and Ultra Instinct

And if you also count Saiyan Beyond God as a form and Goku Black's Super Saiyan Rose that would be 22 forms total otherwise he has exactly 20.
 
So it's ok when Gogeta plays around for a main goal but not Vegito?

You were using Buu as a example of Vegito "Not playing around" and then attempted to use Gogeta vs Omega as an example of Gogeta playing around. Ignoring why he was doing so and that he then immediately tried to nuke Omega afterwards. There's also Vegito toying with Fusion Zamasu in the manga, and there was zero reason for him to do so.
 
Peter1129 said:
@Watren Vallon The only reason Vegito stomped Fusion Zamasu in the manga was because both Future Zamasu and Goku Black were fodders which makes the Fusion weaker. In the anime Post-scythe Goku Black > Future Trunks Saga SSBKKx10 Goku and Future Zamasu was somewhat comparable to early Future Trunks Saga SSB which was why Vegito had a hard time beating Fusion Zamasu since his fusees were overall only slightly stronger compared to Fusion Zamasu's fusees if you add their powers together.

Although Future Trunks getting his time to shine is also probably a factor. And yeah the finale of the Future Trunks Saga was pretty bad.
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That's some nonsense. Future Zamasu was even weaker than Black arc SS2 Goku. He could only keep up because of his immortality

Also none of this explains how SSB Goku was able to damage Fusion Zamasu with his Kamehameha and SSBKK was able to knock him out with a kick. The entire arc had horrible power scaling
 
Tbh I'll be happy if they drop these lame color changing transformations just for selling more merchandise. Instead focus on the story and bring up some cool hax to pair with Ultra Instinct
 
Like someone already said, Goku/Vegeta shouldn't been able to touch Zamasu after he fused, you would think then that if Goku/Vegeta can hold their own against Fused Zamasu, then Vegito should wipe the floor with him, but that doesn't happen! To make matter worse, you have Trunks later swing his plot armor and kill Zamau despite being weaker than Vegeta on his own!

The last 2 episodes of Zamasu arc was horrible.
 
Future Zamasu was constantly shown to be somewhat comparable to SSB lvl characters in the anime. Him getting pushed back by SS2 Future Trunks is clearly an outlier just to show off his immortality since he has far more feats of going up against SSB lvl characters such as SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, and SS Rage Future Trunks later on in the Future Trunks Saga.

Also Goku and Vegeta hurting Fusion Zamasu is an even bigger outlier considering how Goku Black alone was shown to be stronger than both of them prior to fusing. Not to mention the huge multiplier you're supposed to get from fusion.
 
ZERO7772 said:
SSG >>>>> SSB
SS4 >>>>> SSB

SSR >>>>>> SSB

SSB must be one of the lamest DB forms ever!
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Yeah because they didn't treat it well, i mean Goku uses it against fodder like Krillin
 
Well, a form that is supposed to rely 'buldozing through with raw power' won't look good against opponent that dwarf you in power, while a form that rely on 'godly technique' will look way better in the same situation.
 
There's no confirmed multiplier. Generally we would consider a 7.5x AP advantage to be a stomp in real life, but fiction doesn't tend to follow that rule, as characters in fiction are mostly shown to be capable of initiating stomps with just a 2x AP advantage.
 
You can't beat someone in real life who is twice as strong as you either. How would you compare an grown up man to a gorilla for example?
 
@Zero7772

Actually a grown man can beat a Gorilla, it just depends where he strikes first, like the face for example
 
Really? I would think a gorilla would send you flying with just a wave of it hand lol

I don't think human have a better chance of beating a gorilla than a grizzly bear
 
Yes, the intelligence gap usually is the reason why the human could win, but if you are skilled in martial arts or just well trained you can win against theoretically stronger animals.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Really? I would think a gorilla would send you flying with just a wave of it hand lol
I don't think human have a better chance of beating a gorilla than a grizzly bear
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The hunters of African would like to have a word with you. And the guy who killed a grizzly bear with a pocket knife. And the guy who fended off a crocodile with his bare hands.

It's all about technique and striking at the right place.

Using Composite Human turns this into a hilarious stomp.
 
I was talking about fighting a bear/Gorilla with your bare hands without weapons. Unless you puke their eyes or something, no way any human can overpower a Gorilla.

Literally, all they need is one hit on you and are screwed
 
Composite Human has Class 5 lifting strength, compared to the gorilla's measly Class 1 lifting strength. Gorilla dies horribly either way.
 
What is Composite Human? Are we talking fiction here?

I was talking about a situation where you put normal guy against a big animal.
 
Well, we are, and the VSBattles wiki uses the AP measurement of a stomp with 7.5x being the minimum.

And normal humans wouldn't just rely on their hands. Improvised weaponry is a thing.
 
Ok... let's turn this into a Dragon ball thread again, so I'll talk about some manga changes in the black arc. The arc itself was amazing but I would end it differently.

Starting with Vegito vs Merged Zamasu, the fight would go the same ending with a Final Kamehameha that was never fired, they defuse and Goku goes mastered ssb to fight Zamasu (Zamasu only has minutes of the fusion left). During the fight Goku decides to use his trump card, hakai. However before Goku can find an opening Zamasu starts to defuse and it's back to Goku Black and normal Zamasu again. Black is enraged and goes after Trunks but Vegeta gets in the way to fight Black. During their little scuffle, they start to clash hands. Black then starts monologging but before he could finish Trunks comes from behind and stabs Black right through the heart. Trunks tells Goku Black that this is what happens when he underestimates mortals and that bad actions result in heavy consequences. Trunks then throws him in the air (like Cell) and the Vegeta hits Black with a final flash while screaming "Go... to... HELL!" After Black is killed Zamasu starts to breakdown and cry, but Goku looks at Zamasu and tells him "It was fun fighting you two, but it's time to put an end to this". Goku then proceeds to hakai Zamasu as he screams in agony. Everyone is finally happy but mere moments later they sense a tremendous amount of energy and the sky goes dark and shows projections of Zamasu's face. Goku is confused why the hakai didn't work and Gowasu explains that since this is Goku's first time performing the move he cannot use it to the fullest extent. It may have destroyed him on a physical plane, but his soul still remains and Zamasu then becomes one with the universe and starts spreading across the multiverse. Gowasu explains that if they stay there any longer they'll become corrupted by Zamasu's twisted evil will. Goku, Vegeta and Trunks proceed to attack Zamasu but nothing works and they get blasted away along with every life form. During the failed attempt to harm Infinite Zamasu, the Zeno Button falls out of Goku's pocket and the rest is history.
 
There are no 100% accurate height values for characters in Dragon Ball it's really inconsistent, hell its a miracle that they mentioned Broly's height in promo material to be 10'0 feet
 
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