Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 69

[Warren_Valion]

What are they about?

 

[Peter1129]

DBS Goku's Profile revision. Seriously he's missing way too keys. He got many power boosts from Ultra Instinct during the tournament of Power and almost none of them are on his profile.

Removing at least 3-A key from Android 17 and Frieza's Profile. Because that statement about them going past their limit sounds more like it's referring to their stamina rather than power.

Low 2-C Anilaza. Since some of the arguments for rejecting Low 2-C can be debunked. But nobody in the previous thread brought up the correct reasons.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I feel like current Base Goku could be scaled back to UIO 1st because of what happened during the end... But I know a lot of people would be against it... So I'm only going to mention it here.

@Peter... I'm also curious. What is it about ? If it's anything I can help with... I'll do it. I need stuff to help relieve me of boredom.

Low 2-C Anilaza... Woo boy. Firstly.... I do agree. Secondly, the statement I feel is about both power and stamina. Jiren was hitting all of them with a power greater than when he first fought Ultra Instinct... So he was using that against them. With Android 17... That shouldn't be the case. He doesn't run out of stamina. Goku gets both, as well as Frieza... Because clearly they wouldn't be capable of fighting against Jiren using that level of power and they also are running out if power... If they didn't break their limits.

 

[Peter1129]

Thing is Android 17 and Golden Frieza only kept up with Jiren after he lost his tremendous strength. After Jiren regained some of his strength he completely overpowered both of them. But somehow a couple seconds later Base Frieza and Android 17 were able to keep up with Post-MUI Base Goku who had previously stopped said Jiren's energy wave that overpowered 17 and Frieza in a stronger form.

 

[ByAsura]

Goku is missing keys, like the start of the tournament, since it's far stronger than his fight with Hit. Some do seem unnecessary, like his unknown boost against Kale and Caulifa after fighting them for a while, but those could be added to other ones.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

They supposedly got stronger due to breaking their limits. Goku, Vegeta, and even non-Saiyans (Hit) did it throughout the tournament. Goku, Frieza , and 17 doing it out of nowhere isn't out of place in the ToP.

 

[Peter1129]

Goku and Vegeta getting stronger is due or their Saiyan biology. Hit got stronger because he has his Pure Progress improvement thing. Frieza and 17 doesn't have anything like that and not to mention Goku only said that line to Frieza after he used up his Golden Form. He never said that to 17.

 

[Peter1129]

Goku is missing keys, like the start of the tournament, since it's far stronger than his fight with Hit. Some do seem unnecessary, like his unknown boost against Kale and Caulifa after fighting them for a while, but those could be added to other ones.

Well not really just keys. I was thinking some of his keys name should be changed like Super Saiyan Blue (Post-Ultra Instinct -Sign-) and some of his justifications should be added onto the new keys.

 

[PaChi2]

Goku and Vegeta getting stronger is due or their Saiyan biology. Hit got stronger because he has his Pure Progress improvement thing. Frieza and 17 doesn't have anything like that and not to mention Goku only said that line to Frieza after he used up his Golden Form. He never said that to 17.

1) Frieza is a mutant.

2) Frieza is a prodigy

3) The guy in 4 months reached higher than Goku in ~20 years or so.

Now you are questioning him getting stronger mid-battle?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Both of them have been stated to be fighting prodigies and having limitless potential... At best, it's only applicable to just Goku... And no one else then.

 

[Peter1129]

@PaChi2 Show me a time when Frieza improved mid battle or from a small talk than. He's only shown to improve through training not a small talk that suddenly made his Base form that was equal to Pre-UIS Base Goku just five seconds ago stronger than his Golden Form.

 

[PaChi2]

@PaChi2 Show me a time when Frieza improved mid battle or from a small talk than. He's only shown to improve through training not a small talk that suddenly made his Base form that was equal to Pre-UIS Base Goku just five seconds ago stronger than his Golden Form.

You know that I cant prove it and yet ask for proof? Lol

He got stronger by being tied in hell and focusing on killing Goku. So... Welp.

 

[Peter1129]

Except he said he did some mental training in his time in hell. He doesn't have the time or luxury to do that in the tournament especially not in the last few seconds of the tournament.

 

[PaChi2]

Except he said he did say he did some training in his time in hell. He doesn't have the time or luxury in the tournament.

His training was focusing on killing goku. He was literally tied in the coccoon. That alone gave him a boost that made him comparable to Post-Zamasu Blue.

 

[Peter1129]

Image training is a thing in Dragon Ball Pachi.

 

[PaChi2]

Image training is a thing in Dragon Ball Pachi.

Frieza's Image training > Actual Combat and Zenkai and training with Whis (combined).

And still him breaking his limits at the end of the fight is unbelievable. Welp.

 

[Peter1129]

You even said it yourself Frieza is a genius. He became stronger than Goku who was training with Whis in 4 months. So why can't he become that much stronger with image training? And like I said before Frieza has only been shown to get stronger via training not mid battle or after a talk.

 

[PaChi2]

Welp.

Have it your way. Not like I care about this enough to discuss any further.

Low 2-C Anilaza wont get approved, just a heads up.

 

[Peter1129]

Low 2-C Anilaza wont get approved, just a heads up.

You can't be too sure. I've read some of the arguments for rejecting it and some of them make no sense whatsoever. For example I think one of the arguments were Goku didn't have the Lightning Visual effects around him when he fought Anilaza so he was holding back that time. That was one of the arguments I saw in one of the Anilaza thread.

 

[PaChi2]

You can't be too sure. I've read some of the arguments for rejecting it and most of them makes no sense whatsoever. Like really? Goku didn't have the Lightning Visual effects around him when he fought Anilaza so he was holding back that time. That was one of the arguments I saw in one of the Anilaza thread.

I politely refer you to the second sentence in the answer you quoted. Im done with db, naruto, bleach, one piece, pokemon, digimon and nearly any relevant verse. You can upgrade them to 2-A and I'd give you a thumbs up.

 

[Peter1129]

Ehh you're choice not mine. I'll probably have the 17 and Frieza thread up this weekend since it's the easiest of them all. DBS Goku's Profile revision thread will probably come next week. Anilaza's thread is the biggest one so I'll probably have to reread all the previous Anilaza threads before making mine so it will probably take a while.

 

[HST_Master]

You can't be too sure. I've read some of the arguments for rejecting it and most of them makes no sense whatsoever. Like really? Goku didn't have the Lightning Visual effects around him when he fought Anilaza so he was holding back that time. That was one of the arguments I saw in one of the Anilaza thread.

I politely refer you to the second sentence in the answer you quoted. Im done with db, naruto, bleach, one piece, pokemon, digimon and nearly any relevant verse. You can upgrade them to 2-A and I'd give you a thumbs up.

You heard him. 2-A Yamcha has his Support

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I have to agree with PaChi. It seems like a downgrade for the sake of downgrading, IMO. As well, it's hard to figure that Base Goku is stronger than 17 or Freeza at the end of the ToP, when Final Form Freeza was later matching him in a flickering SSJ state blow-for-blow against Jiren. Point blank, Goku's barrier protecting 17 and Freeza (the latter of whom lost Golden Form in his attempt to keep up the barrier) is sheer PIS. It's the classic Dragon Ball deus ex machina--"Goku saves the day, again!"

 

[Peter1129]

Right before this Jiren singlehandedly overpowered both 17 and Golden Frieza after getting over his issues. So Base Frieza keeping up with Jiren after this is a straight up outlier. Goku was the one that stopped Jiren's energy wave after 17 and Fireza's combined barrier shattered so yes he is stronger than 17 and Frieza after using the Complete Ultra Instinct in base. And it's not hard to believe considering how big the Ultra Instinct Sign boosts were.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

I come back to this site after a while, look into the newest DBS thread, and now people are arguing Base Goku>Golden Freeza... sigh. Never going to understand that POV when its been made extremely clear that Goku and Vegeta are not getting huge training gains anymore and their biggest power-ups are from transformations and fusions. Base Goku doing so well could easily be explained by him utilizing the Saiyan beyond God form. Explains why he can fight Base Freeza, who could dominate Base Dyspo, who hurt an off-guard Hit. Without SbG Goku only fought Dyspo with God and Blue. As a side note, SbG would also explain why Goku did so well against Hit in the Universe 6 Tournament even before going Blue.

The same issue applies with the Post-ToP God Goku>Kale>Pre-ToP SSB Goku debacle which I also disagree with.

Anyway, new trailer shows that Base Broly is far above SSG Goku and can contend with SSB Goku. He's definitely stronger than Rose Black even in Base and possible above Base Toppo. SSJ Broly is hard to tell but afaik Full Power Broly was stated to be the strongest fighter in Dragon Ball (minus the Angels and Zeno), so he would be above ToP MUI Goku and Limits Surpassed Jiren. Broly seems to be fighting Whis at one point but that could be manipulative trailer editing and Whis seemed very casual.I highly doubt Broly at his strongest will be above the Angels. We'll have to wait until the movie comes out in December to see (unless the plot gets leaked next week)

 

[Peter1129]

So you're one of those people who don't believe that Goku got stronger after using Ultra Instinct and Ultra Instinct Sign despite all the evidence showing he did get stronger.

 

[ByAsura]

@Super Dragon They're constantly get much stronger through training, they literally contradict Vegeta's statement in the U6 arc where it's introduced. Vegeta's statement is bs.

 

[Huesito88]

We don't accept saiyan beyond god form as a form.

 

[KLOL506]

SBG is essentially movie-exclusive. It isn't mentioned anywhere in the anime.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I have to agree with the posse. SBG isn't ever implied to exist in the anime.... At all .

 

[ByAsura]

Isn't it just his base form in the anime? I'm pretty sure there's guides about that.

Also, there's some indication that it exists; when Goku and Vegeta spar, they briefly gain a taste of SSB in base. Beerus states that base Goku is stronger than before and challenges him to a fight.

 

[Phoenix821]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ele0rkY8HI&feature=youtu.be

 

[DragonEmperor23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ele0rkY8HI&feature=youtu.be

thank you

 

[AKM sama]

Sorry I don't think Goku is missing keys. Although I think his profile needs some fixing to do with the speed ratings and rearranging his powers and abilities. His BoG arc justification also needs to be improved. I also made a blog explaining the BoG arc scaling in detail.

I am planning to take care of it by the end of November. I also have to make a similar blog about the ToP scaling.

 

[AKM sama]

I kinda agree with you. Right now from the trailer we saw SSB Goku gain the upper hand against Base Broly but than later on we saw Broly fighting SSB Goku with that huge energy ball. So right now I'm still kinda iffy on how strong Base Broly is. But the bare minimum is vastly above the First UIS via stomping Post-ToP SSG Goku And Vegeta.

Yellow eyes Broly was putting up a fight with Blueberry Goku, though I think Blueberry Goku will be a bit stronger and push Broly to use Super Saiyan. That's when both Blueberries team up.

So I think Yellow eyes Broly will scale below Blueberry, and ssj Broly will scale above both Blueberries working together.

Wonder that's when UI Goku or Gogeta show up and Broly goes green.

 

[ByAsura]

Just to ask, shouldn't Hit have Longevity? He's over 1000 after all.

@AKM

They fuse the Future Trunks and Universe Survival Sagas as if they're the same league of power though. Imo, that at least could be a key or mention since he's even stronger than Post-Future Trunks SSB as SSG.

 

[AKM sama]

Tbh I find that very iffy. Goku was getting beat as a SSG, and he even had to turn SSB in the instant of attacking/blocking. It seems that he was just using SSG to conserve stamina.

 

[ByAsura]

He was being beaten due to Dyspo's light bullet, the same thing Hit was being beaten by at first. There's actually a scene where it's implied he keeps up with Dyspo when he's not using it, and Goku could intercept him, catch his punch, and send him flying as well as withstand his attacks. I think Whis does say something like that, but Goku still goes SSB when he needs to.

He turned SSB the instant of attacking, which Dyspo felt the need to avoid. Also, Goku scales to Golden Frieza, who completely outmatched Dyspo, making that a non-argument.

 

[AKM sama]

In all of those instances Goku is getting beat up while Dyspo is only chilling. I admit Dyspo was caught off guard by the sudden appearance of SSG Goku, but he dominated the rest of the fight. Hit also beat up Dyspo pretty bad once he realised Dyspo's trick. So Hit and Golden Freeza are pretty much equals in that regard.

 

[ByAsura]

Again, it was with Light Bullet, the same technique that increases his speed thousands of times and Hit was getting beaten by at the time, plus there's still the scene where they briefly fight on par with each other. Even if SSG isn't equal (something we can agree to disagree on if need be), it's still relative since he took no real damage from his attacks and caught his punch while intercepting him without light bullet, even if he was off guard, the attack was meant to defeat Hit.

Yes, by using Hax and his fighting skill, which Dyspo could still withstand and didn't use as a chance to transform. It was the opposite of before, where Hit could counter his moves. They do not equal, Golden Frieza was winning due to his sheer strength and speed.