Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Damage3245]

Okay—This actually consistently bothers me. What retcon? Where in the story is this stated? Where does Goku say “I’ve temporarily lost my powers because Eto Bleh.” Even when Saiyan Beyond God “was a thing,” Toriyama said he still could go SSJ2-3, but that he “rarely would” because it was just better to use regular SSJ. At no point is there a moment where the plot is, inexplicably, rewritten. Hell, even when Toriyama said Goku never needed to go SSG again, that’s all he said. Not that he COULDN’T—Just that it was unnecessary.

To be fair I don't think that's what is meant by a retcon here; I think they're referring to it being phased out / no longer mentioned / dropped. Not someone explicitly acknowledging it in-universe and saying they can no longer do it.

 

[Veronica]

Can we do anything about it? She keeps mentioning it over and over and can't get better, i think getting a permanent ban from DB would be good.

Can't refute anytime so lets use censorship

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Because Goku going SSJ is always SSB in RoF. Frieza says go "SSJ" and Goku says "I don't need to go SSJ" and what do see its SSB, because at that time SSB is THE SSJ form. Also in DBZ Kakarot just calls it "SSJ" because Akira vision was base=SSG and SSB is the new regular SSJ form but U6 shows yellow SSJ again.

Goku not needing to use it dosen't equal it not existing anymore

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Can't refute anytime so lets use censorship

Honestly, we've discussed this with you a million times and we're just tired of it, just stop, we are asking politely.

 

[Veronica]

Goku not needing to use it dosen't equal it not existing anymore

It didn't exist. Akira literally said "Only base and SSJ (SSB) exist from now on, because he never planned anything beyond RoF when he made the movie.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

It didn't exist. Akira literally said "Only base and SSJ (SSB) exist from now on, because he never planned anything beyond RoF when he made the movie.

Nothing in the text proves that. Goku not needing it can just mean blue is better, which it clearly is

 

[Veronica]

Honestly, we've discussed this with you a million times and we're just tired of it, just stop, we are asking politely.

And I got nonsense fan-fiction answers such as: SSG x SSG

 

[TheGreatBanana]

1. That's before U6 arc
2. That's also before U6 arc and SSG power grew stronger
3. True, but that's before the retcon
4. False in RoF his base is SSG, he doesn't go SSG. He stacks SSJ on his base SSG power and god-ki thus creating SSB.
5. DBZ Kakarot has canonical information while DBH is fan-fiction tier writing

1-"That's before U6" stfu, buu safa was also before U6, does that mean it's retconed? No. You can't just say "Before U6" and expect people to agree with your dumb ass argument.
2-Same as 1, and so what if ssg power grew stronger...? Goku grows stronger all the time tf.
4-....his base isn't ssg, his base is literally his dark normal hair form, you can't be serious. Also contradicted by the fact that he can go ssj1-3 normally so your argument isn't just stupid, I literally makes zero sense. He literally stacks ssj ontop of ssg, not ontop of base form. Because if he did, he wouldn't be able to turn into ssj. Like bro, he literally goes to ssj, ssg, and then ssb.
5- idgaf, bring up arguments from the Canon.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

And I got nonsense fan-fiction answers such as: SSG x SSG

You just dislike the answer.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

And I got nonsense fan-fiction answers such as: SSG x SSG

...wtf is even ssg x ssg...?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

...wtf is even ssg x ssg...?

 

[Veronica]

...wtf is even ssg x ssg...?

The idea that Goku base SSG power gets multiplied by SSG transformation.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

...wtf is even ssg x ssg...?

There refering to SSG power becoming base power meaning that using the SSG form would be that form's power by itself ignoring that we don't see the form again for a long time after blue came around

 

[Veronica]

Nothing in the text proves that. Goku not needing it can just mean blue is better, which it clearly is

False. As it is shown that SSB is the SSJ form in RoF twice by Frieza and Goku himself.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Is ssg x ssg a new ship? Did jjk brainpower effect dbs? Find out on the next episode of "Veronica isn't just wrong, she's not making any sense"

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The idea that Goku base SSG power gets multiplied by SSG transformation.

Your fighting against very explicit text literally saying that's ehat happened. No one liked at the time but it's the truth

 

[TheGreatBanana]

There refering to SSG power becoming base power meaning that using the SSG form would be that form's power by itself ignoring that we don't see the form again for a long time after blue came around

We don't see it much because ssb is just a better form?

 

[Veronica]

Is ssg x ssg a new ship? Did jjk brainpower effect dbs? Find out on the next episode of "Veronica isn't just wrong, she's not making any sense"

That's literally what you believe

 

[Darkmon_cns]

False. As it is shown that SSB is the SSJ form in RoF twice by Frieza and Goku himself.

No it dosen't

The statements you provided don't do that

Goku saying he dosen't need SSJ infact implies they are separate transformations

 

[Fezzih_007]

...wtf is even ssg x ssg...?

My favorite ship in wattpad

 

[TheGreatBanana]

False. As it is shown that SSB is the SSJ form in RoF twice by Frieza and Goku himself.

And it gets "contradicted" literally by...the next ******* arc, and the next ******* arc, the next ******* arc, the next ******* movie, the next ******* movie

 

[Darkmon_cns]

And it gets "contradicted" literally by...the next ******* arc, and the next ******* arc, the next ******* arc, the next ******* movie, the next ******* movie

They don't even say that /: idk how she's getting that interpretation

 

[TheGreatBanana]

That's literally what you believe

What we believe is that goku got as strong as ssg in his base form via : Absorbing ssg power and preforming same/better feat than ssg.

 

[omegabronic]

To be fair I don't think that's what is meant by a retcon here; I think they're referring to it being phased out / no longer mentioned / dropped. Not someone explicitly acknowledging it in-universe and saying they can no longer do it.

Can we do something? Like, i am very sure they were warned beforehand for spamming the general discussion thread with this topic before

 

[Veronica]

No it dosen't

The statements you provided don't do that

Goku saying he dosen't need SSJ infact implies they are separate transformations

Than he goes SSJ when Frieza asked him and what do we see? SSJ version of SSG not (SSB) not yellow SSJ.

 

[Veronica]

What we believe is that goku got as strong as ssg in his base form via : Absorbing ssg power and preforming same/better feat than ssg.

Yes, he had that power in base in RoF. Explain to me how Goku has two SSG power when the source of power is the same?

 

[BlastX]

Unrelated but I can't decide if the forums censoring swears is funny or annoying at this point.

 

[Veronica]

And it gets "contradicted" literally by...the next ******* arc, and the next ******* arc, the next ******* arc, the next ******* movie, the next ******* movie

That's because it got retconned in U6 arc. SSB is there shown as a seperate transformation than as regular SSJ.

 

[RedReaper]

To be fair I don't think that's what is meant by a retcon here; I think they're referring to it being phased out / no longer mentioned / dropped. Not someone explicitly acknowledging it in-universe and saying they can no longer do it.

In that case then…like…why would that matter? Even if it’s phased out OOC, that doesn’t affect Canon. Like, it’s not even a valid way to go over powerscaling material. Especially since the method being questioned is the one that is explicitly noted to a permanent change to their base power level (without affecting you in any other conceivable way).

Also, I want to point out that even in the Anime, they use the RoF explanation verbatim in the Copy Vegeta Arc. So it’s straight up just not dropped-At least not until then.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Yes, he had that power in base in RoF. Explain to me how Goku has two SSG power when the source of power is the same?

Again. No one liked this and it wa sclowned on for months when it came up

But it's true, and just has to be accepted

 

[Veronica]

In that case then…like…why would that matter? Even if it’s phased out OOC, that doesn’t affect Canon. Like, it’s not even a valid way to go over powerscaling material. Especially since the method being questioned is the one that is explicitly noted to a permanent change to their base power level.

Also, I want to point out that even in the Anime, they use the RoF explanation verbatim in the Copy Vegeta Arc. So it’s straight up just not dropped-At least not until then.

Copy Vegeta arc is based on RoF abandoned concept of SSG power in base.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

That's because it got retconned in U6 arc. SSB is there shown as a seperate transformation than as regular SSJ.

I see no evidence they were ever the same form. You really haven't shown anything other then goku using a better transformation then what frezia asked form

 

[Damage3245]

In that case then…like…why would that matter? Even if it’s phased out OOC, that doesn’t affect Canon. Like, it’s not even a valid way to go over powerscaling material. Especially since the method being questioned is the one that is explicitly noted to a permanent change to their base power level (without affecting you in any other conceivable way).

Also, I want to point out that even in the Anime, they use the RoF explanation verbatim in the Copy Vegeta Arc. So it’s straight up just not dropped-At least not until then.

I'm neutral on the topic (especially since it's not even a CRT), just wanted to point out that point.

 

[RedReaper]

False. As it is shown that SSB is the SSJ form in RoF twice by Frieza and Goku himself.

Frieza has no clue what the Hell a SSB is. He literally just expected Goku to go blonde. Goku’s response to that you can interpret however, but Frieza is absolutely NOT a valid source.

 

[Veronica]

I see no evidence they were ever the same form. You really haven't shown anything other then goku using a better transformation then what frezia asked form

It's not a better transformation it's GOING SSJ ON TOP OF BASE SSG ALWAYS CREATING Blue. Meaning YELLOW SSJ Isn't 50x SSG because IT WILL ALWAYS TURN BLUE.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Yes, he had that power in base in RoF. Explain to me how Goku has two SSG power when the source of power is the same?

I'll explain it in the most simple way possible.
Goku has super saiyan, and super saiyan form is 50x stronger than base form.
Goku trained to be stronger by 50x, now goku in base as strong as he was super saiyan. Does that mean goku can't use super saiyan? Obviously no.
That's what ssb and ssg entire situation is.
Goku got as strong as super saiyan god in base, and now he can use also super saiyan god multiplier ontop of base.
I don't know how much simpler can I explain it.
And ssb is literally a saiyan with the power of super saiyan god as a super saiyan. Hence the funking name of "Super saiyan god Super saiyan." He literally stated on screen.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Man, you can say anything about Veronica, but you can't deny she atleast follow Goku ways of never giving up.

No matter time she is shot down, she keeps getting up to fight, what a anime protagonist!

 

[Veronica]

Frieza has no clue what the Hell a SSB is. He literally just expected Goku to go blonde. Goku’s response to that you can interpret however, but Frieza is absolutely NOT a valid source.

That's because SSB is just called SSJ it's later called SSB. So when he goes SSJ its "SSB" in later understanding when in RoF it's just regular SSJ

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Ulike goku, she gets a reverse Zenkai

Man, you can say anything about Veronica, but you can't deny she atleast follow Goku ways of never giving up.

No matter time she is shot down, she keeps getting up to fight, what a anime protagonist!

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Man, you can say anything about Veronica, but you can't deny she atleast follow Goku ways of never giving up.

No matter time she is shot down, she keeps getting up to fight, what a anime protagonist!

also has the same level of intelligence as DBS Goku and I’m not talking combat intelligence