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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

D3xQ1NMWwAAddzm.jpg:large

Oh YUH, Broly is fully in control and about to go IN!
 
Also just clicked to me but current Goku in DBS manga current full power is CUI meaning that he could had possibly learned to add his emotions with it
 
SirAlex09 said:
Drafts are out. Gohan has the edge in power while Goku has the edge in speed.

Goku straight up speed blitzed Gohan...that panel looked raw. But Gohan seems to hit much harder. Goku's hit barely do any damage
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Oh dear. I know some people will be pissed at this news.
Ovrhide said:
So current Broly blinks ToP Jiren away. Wild...
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Wait what ? When was Broly comparable to the current top tiers in the manga ? I know he’s implied to have fought Gohan but I thought he got stomped.

BlackeJan said:
How ya feel about it?
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I don’t really have an opinion on it. Everyone’s free to come up with their own interpretations of things. I just feel it’s an interesting perspectives.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Wait what ? When was Broly comparable to the current top tiers in the manga ? I know he’s implied to have fought Gohan but I thought he got stomped.
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This is confirmed in the anime and manga, where Piccolo and Gohan reached Goku's level, according to the last mention of the Akira, if Cell Max had been complete he would be on Broly's level, and Goku outplayed Jiren in the tournament by transforming into Superior Instinct (but didn't drop out of the tournament to win )

So anyone above Goku is superior to Jiren
 
Fezzih_007 said:
I don't think Kishi would kill Goku, like i doubt people would let that happen.
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He wouldn't. I think he would be too beholden to his own ideas of what Dragon Ball should be-As a lifelong fan turned friend (and coworker) of Toriyama Sensei, which would impede his ability to write for the characters. Kind of like how Deku couldn't master One For All because he saw it as "an external gift" from a "vastly better/superior source to himself' and thus could not "integrate" with the Quirk in the way his Predecessors could. The same applies to Oda.

And this isn't me saying they're bad-No, they're phenomenal at what they do. But they've gone on record to say they IDOLIZE Toriyama-Sensei, and it's even been stated by a former close artist that worked on One Piece alongside Oda that Oda keeps Dragon Ball in mind when writing everything to, in Oda's words, "subvert it with more complexity." As in, he has a PRECONCEIVED NOTION of what Dragon Ball IS and PURPOSELY WRITES AROUND THAT. Which makes total sense, because when you read his interviews, you SOON REALIZE he calls Toriyama-Sensei GOD-SENSEI very consistently. And Kishimoto, while not to the same degree, openly claims to have let Dragon Ball influence his choices as well, and also calls Toriyama God-Sensei.

These are not bad traits to have as a general person, but it is bad when you're trying to write Dragon Ball authentically. I think Toyotarou is the perfect person for the job not JUST because Toriyama chose him, but because he was one of the only people to see Toriyama behind the mask of his "I'm a lazy cool guy." Toyotarou has even gone on record to state he thinks Toriyama is lying about Goku's "non-heroic" self, because he thinks Toriyama secretly wants to keep that trait of himself (and Goku) hidden. Simiarly, he thinks Toriyama lied about "using SSJ to remove having to color hair," because if you actually look at the art, the shirt, belt, backgrounds, and Frieza's body crystal s(now that Goku's orange Gi is gone) means that Toriyama has equal to MORE to color in than he did before, and believes Tori claims otherwise to be humble. Kishi nor Oda probably would never think of this, because they respect him too much.

Whereas Toyo has gotten a much deeper understanding of Toriyama and his habits, and can much more deeply relate not just to his workflow/ideas (and thus make more Dragon Ball that is authentic and genuine), but also capable of moving in directions Toriyama would NOT go to further benefit the story. Good examples of this is when Toriyama outright said that Koyama's take on Goku's father was a masterful story that HE could NEVER write because of his much more positive and upbeat attitude and nature as a storyteller. He would never capture that tragedy, and we've seen with Minus and Granolah he was 100% correct. Which tells me that while Toriyama definitely knows Dragon Ball BEST and will ALWAYS have, will, and continue to be (in the afterlife) teller of Dragon Ball stories, he himself freely understands and admits his scope of writing is not all encompassing, can be flawed, and ultimately cannot fully engross everything Dragon Ball is and can be. But Toyo, if he learns the right lessons, (and given his own ideas, like making a spinoff Trunks Manga), and gets fully into his groove, COULD do what Toriyama did and MORE.
 
RedReaper said:
He wouldn't. I think he would be too beholden to his own ideas of what Dragon Ball should be-As a lifelong fan turned friend (and coworker) of Toriyama Sensei, which would impede his ability to write for the characters. Kind of like how Deku couldn't master One For All because he saw it as "an external gift" from a "vastly better/superior source to himself' and thus could not "integrate" with the Quirk in the way his Predecessors could. The same applies to Oda.

And this isn't me saying they're bad-No, they're phenomenal at what they do. But they've gone on record to say they IDOLIZE Toriyama-Sensei, and it's even been stated by a former close artist that worked on One Piece alongside Oda that Oda keeps Dragon Ball in mind when writing everything to, in Oda's words, "subvert it with more complexity." As in, he has a PRECONCEIVED NOTION of what Dragon Ball IS and PURPOSELY WRITES AROUND THAT. Which makes total sense, because when you read his interviews, you SOON REALIZE he calls Toriyama-Sensei GOD-SENSEI very consistently. And Kishimoto, while not to the same degree, openly claims to have let Dragon Ball influence his choices as well, and also calls Toriyama God-Sensei.

These are not bad traits to have as a general person, but it is bad when you're trying to write Dragon Ball authentically. I think Toyotarou is the perfect person for the job not JUST because Toriyama chose him, but because he was one of the only people to see Toriyama behind the mask of his "I'm a lazy cool guy." Toyotarou has even gone on record to state he thinks Toriyama is lying about Goku's "non-heroic" self, because he thinks Toriyama secretly wants to keep that trait of himself (and Goku) hidden. Simiarly, he thinks Toriyama lied about "using SSJ to remove having to color hair," because if you actually look at the art, the shirt, belt, backgrounds, and Frieza's body crystal s(now that Goku's orange Gi is gone) means that Toriyama has equal to MORE to color in than he did before, and believes Tori claims otherwise to be humble. Kishi nor Oda probably would never think of this, because they respect him too much.

Whereas Toyo has gotten a much deeper understanding of Toriyama and his habits, and can much more deeply relate not just to his workflow/ideas (and thus make more Dragon Ball that is authentic and genuine), but also capable of moving in directions Toriyama would NOT go to further benefit the story. Good examples of this is when Toriyama outright said that Koyama's take on Goku's father was a masterful story that HE could NEVER write because of his much more positive and upbeat attitude and nature as a storyteller. He would never capture that tragedy, and we've seen with Minus and Granolah he was 100% correct. Which tells me that while Toriyama definitely knows Dragon Ball BEST and will ALWAYS have, will, and continue to be (in the afterlife) teller of Dragon Ball stories, he himself freely understands and admits his scope of writing is not all encompassing, can be flawed, and ultimately cannot fully engross everything Dragon Ball is and can be. But Toyo, if he learns the right lessons, (and given his own ideas, like making a spinoff Trunks Manga), and gets fully into his groove, COULD do what Toriyama did and MORE.
Click to expand...
Blud cooked.
 
Apparently it's a bit less clear cut. Gohan punches Goku out of UI, then there's some dialogue before Goku goes back into UI for more fighting that ends inconclusively.

Broly then goes in for a fight on Goku's recommendation. They're pretty even, Broly doing better at first but Gohan gets the last blow when Vegeta interrupts and goes at Gohan. Goten and Trunks go after Broly.

Goku gets pumped and then joins in again and everyone ends up in base, tired.

Leaker's take is Gohan = Broly, Goku and Vegeta = but a bit below them, but the fightd are inconclusive and apparently Vegeta doesn't go UE. Also Beast is apparently faster than UI.

Overall, the saiyans are kinda just comparable overall.



But I don't know how reliable this guy is.
 
I have a question, are Broly's transformations different from those of a normal sayayin or is it that he is so excessively powerful that his SSJ1 is stronger than the advanced phases of the others?
 
Wesker018 said:
I have a question, are Broly's transformations different from those of a normal sayayin or is it that he is so excessively powerful that his SSJ1 is stronger than the advanced phases of the others?
Click to expand...
Both. Broly’s forms do not naturally come to him like other Saiyans (cannot transform at will), can alter themselves (Oozaru becoming Ikari and his SSJ going green), and more, but he’s also excessively strong in his base form (basic training was noted to be worthless in Broly because Paragus sucks, lmao, so his power basically was in perpetual {stagnant} growth until he met Goku and Vegeta—Who then pushed him so hard his base state became only 10x weaker than SSG Vegeta {Oozaru/Ikari Multiplier}, until he eventually was = to SSB Goku, {meaning should only be 10x weaker than SSB Goku}). That is an egregiously powerful base form.

These two factors make Broly virtually monolithic and singular amongst the Saiyan Race, similar to Kale and the Broly of the past continuity.
 
RedReaper said:
Both. Broly’s forms do not naturally come to him like other Saiyans (cannot transform at will), can alter themselves (Oozaru becoming Ikari and his SSJ going green), and more, but he’s also excessively strong in his base form (basic training was noted to be worthless in Broly because Paragus sucks, lmao, so his power basically was in perpetual {stagnant} growth until he met Goku and Vegeta—Who then pushed him so hard his base state became only 10x weaker than SSG Vegeta {Oozaru/Ikari Multiplier}, until he eventually was = to SSB Goku, {meaning should only be 10x weaker than SSB Goku}). That is an egregiously powerful base form.

These two factors make Broly virtually monolithic and singular amongst the Saiyan Race, similar to Kale and the Broly of the past continuity.
Click to expand...

That's insane, I can't even imagine what Broly would be like if he reached a new phase, just imagine broly SSJB. Do you think something like this will happen?
he would probably still be weaker than Beerus for some incoherent reason
 
Accelerated_Evolution said:
"An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power"

Basically the case with the Hakai stuff
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I never understood this take about hakai


Hakai has 2 feats against slump xters, it erased one and would have erased the other. And it's EE on a person, so it's not power, it's hax, there will be no tier change or whatever with it, hakai will simply have a 5d potency hax and all who have resisted it would have the resistance

POD isn't ki, you resist it or you don't
Accelerated_Evolution said:
Because Hakai was never showed to be near as powerful as it was showed in the crossover
Click to expand...
When has it ever been used against people at that level of slump xters or failed in the first place before that? Only thing anyone has resisted is EOD, and lower grade versions of it

And mind you, Beerus erasing Mashirito was accepted, it only went to 5d because of the upgrade, and then it suddenly became an outlier
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Beerus was still affected by the Toon force, Beerus at the end of the day with a stomachache.
Click to expand...
He got a stomach ache from the food created by the machine, either his body didn't agree with the food or thr machine's toon force overcame his resistance
 
Veronica said:
Does it mean base Broly=Ultimate Goban=SSB tier and therefore MUI is 50x SSB?
Click to expand...
We know for sure that UI sign is equal to 40x SSJB because Kefla (L-)SSJ was equal to SSJBK x20 and UI Sign was equal to SSJ2 Kefla (before she broly-zenkai'd herself to being capable of oneshotting him)

MUI therefore has to be more than 50x SSJB but that would be strictly Anime-only
 
Oh another interesting spoiler: Gohan explained to Goku that he controls his beast form "by raising his Ki to the maximum where he is about to snap and then control it." Broly witnesses this and is actually the one to interrupt the spar to fight Gohan himself. He basically applies the same principal to control his own power and fight on par with Gohan. ( He makes him sweat....One Piece sweatscaling can be applied here)
 
SirAlex09 said:
Oh another interesting spoiler: Gohan explained to Goku that he controls his beast form "by raising his Ki to the maximum where he is about to snap and then control it." Broly witnesses this and is actually the one to interrupt the spar to fight Gohan himself. He basically applies the same principal to control his own power and fight on par with Gohan. ( He makes him sweat....One Piece sweatscaling can be applied here)
Click to expand...
Rip the copers saying Gohan Beast negs Broly xd.
 
So seems like broly basically copied beat mechanism and applied it to his ssj to control it, it also seems like he's on par, if not slightly above beast Gohan, which means his fpssj form is even beyond that, if he's capable of accessing it.
 
Jaakor48 said:
So seems like broly basically copied beat mechanism and applied it to his ssj to control it, it also seems like he's on par, if not slightly above beast Gohan, which means his fpssj form is even beyond that, if he's capable of accessing it.
Click to expand...
Remember this is normal ssj, not his wrathful + super saiyan version as his hair is different
 
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