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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Lawyerr said:
"My series has timelines?"
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516.jpg

"Yeah but you see like each universe is contained inside of this thing called a 'Macrocosm' which contains a ton of other dimensions and each universe has its own macrocosm so like each macrocosm has its own timeline. Meaning you actually have these bigger timelines called Hypertimelines that have to be 5D to contain all these other timelines and each Time Ring, those things those guys with pointy ears wear sometimes, represents a Hypertimeline and there are infinite Hypertimelines because this one Dragon Ball game, Xenoverse 2, has this dude called Fu and Fu says that there are infinite histories with 'histories' referring to hypertimelines right? So like there are infinite hypertimelines but where are these hypertimelines kept? They gotta be kept in a like hyperhypertimeline that like contains all these 5D hypertimelines making it 6D and there's this thing in Xenoverse 2 and this other game called Dragon Ball Heroes called the 'Crack of Time' containing all these crystals showing every single infinite hypertimeline so I just need you to like say that those crystals are the hypertimelines so Dragon Ball can be upgraded to 6D on the VS Wiki. Oh the VS Wiki? That's like a community of lifeless dweebs who debate which fictional character wins against another fictional character like Goku fighting Superman. Convincing them that Goku has sixth dimensional power would really make my day."
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Which isn't what I asked. I'm asking for the reasoning for the rejection.
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I feel like the whole "does the crack of time actually contain the multiverse" thing is pretty straightforward, seeing as [something everyone seems to gloss over is] the Crack of Time is literally... verbatim called the space in between dimensions.

To answer your question, all that stuff about viewing timelines as finite/3-D/crystals, being super-dimensional, transcending space-time, being unaffected by 2-A destructive feats... doesn't fit our current standards for qualitative superiority.

Q: Is a structure bigger than a 2-A structure Low 1-C by default?​

No, the default assumption is that this is not the case. "Bigger" could mean having more 2-A structures and, as explained in greater detail previously, having more 2-A structures, or even infinitely many 2-A structures, unless uncountably infinite many, won't scale above a single 2-A structure in size. This is due to these structures actually have the same size as a baseline 2-A structure. It is, however, possible to at least achieve above the baseline 2-A power by upscaling from other characters who've performed 2-A feats or of the feats themselves, rather than by affecting 2-A structures containing other 2-A structures. However, if "bigger" is indicated to mean a size difference that makes the structure qualitatively superior to a 2-A structure the structure qualifies for Low 1-C unless the fiction specifies otherwise.

To elaborate, a structure larger than 2-A meets the requirements for qualitative superiority over them if it either explicitly mentions an uncountably infinite number of universes or has portrayals/statements of being bigger in size than 2-A structures to the point that even infinite multipliers on top of the size of that structure are of no relevance to it. Multiversal structures past Low 2-C frequently have a distance of unknown length along a 5th dimensional axis separating them. That isn't automatically Low 1-C, as for Low 1-C the distance must be known to be of non-insignificant size.

In that regard it is important to consider that, by its nature, it is not possible to accurately depict 5 dimensional space. As such depictions of the multiverse are usually not to be understood as accurate representation of the distance between the universes, but rather just qualitative analogies of the multiverse's structure.

As usual, evaluation of any additional evidence needs to be done case-by-case.
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Qualitative superiority is being more than infinitely greater than something, which is more akin to viewing something infinite as "zero" rather than simpy finite. You'd need statements for the crack of time like "the concept of space-time is irrelevant here" or "space-time is a non-entity here" or "space-time is an infinitesimal existence here..." you get the idea. There are other ways to prove QS like uncountably infinite universes or Infinity*2-A structure being irrelevant (I think we used an argument that the crack of time contains "non-existent histories," but that's pretty weak, not gonna lie).

Technically, we could've argued that since the Crack of Time is above a 2-A structure, it has to be Low 1-C by virtue of continuum hypothesis determining that there is no cardinality between infinity and uncountable infinity. Honestly though, that would've just forced the standards revision cited above to be implemented sooner if we used that line of reasoning...
 
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In fact, Toriyama is at the helm so I fully expect Daima to turn Dragonball Cosmology on its head. Either with a downgrade or upgrade.

So be prepared for next fall. Shit is going to get wild.
 
Wouldn’t events such as demigra erasing an infinite amount of Low 1-C timelines during xenoverse but still having his shit undone by a timescroll prove that those things operate on a higher time axis?

I’ll leave it to the experts to analyze because I’m not knowledgeable enough about DB games and overarching cosmology of them, much less tier 1 shenanigans.
 
Killerdrone123 said:
No crack of time doesn't have it's own time dimension
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I see, but if it has spacetime, wouldn't that mean there's a higher time dimension further servicing the timelines since the timelines can't be servicing the crack of time


Also why call it the crack of time if it's not a separate time dimension
 
Jaakor48 said:
I see, but if it has spacetime, wouldn't that mean there's a higher time dimension further servicing the timelines since the timelines can't be servicing the crack of time


Also why call it the crack of time if it's not a separate time dimension
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Even I came to that conclusion before but if I am not wrong c.o.t doesn't have time it was also called a space beyond time

 
Killerdrone123 said:
Even I came to that conclusion before but if I am not wrong c.o.t doesn't have time it was also called a space beyond time

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Even WoV doesn't have time initially but it's still under a time dimension tho, "space beyond time" is hard to quantify as it's saying that it's above time itself, father than lacking it


Has time travel affected the CoT before? Or have time abilities been used there?
 
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So how will the DBbros handle the 1-A changes? Because from what I've seen there are some translations of that Afterlife scan that implies a non-dimensional physiology, rather then just a place beyond whatever dimensions exist in the verse.

Is that scan even accepted to be worth anything or am I yapping.
 
Jaakor48 said:
Even WoV doesn't have time initially but it's still under a time dimension tho, "space beyond time" is hard to quantify as it's saying that it's above time itself, father than lacking it


Has time travel affected the CoT before? Or have time abilities been uses there?
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but there is no temporal dimension which contains c.o.t you have to prove that first it is only referred as a space not space-time
 
Killerdrone123 said:
but there is no temporal dimension which contains c.o.t you have to prove that first it is only referred as a space not space-time
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That's why I asked if time travel affects it or if time abilities work there, if either of those things do, then there's clearly time there
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
So how will the DBbros handle the 1-A changes? Because from what I've seen there are some translations of that Afterlife scan that implies a non-dimensional physiology, rather then just a place beyond whatever dimensions exist in the verse.

Is that scan even accepted to be worth anything or am I yapping.
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Afterlife is literally classified as a low 2c realm, no chance on hell it gets anything higher unless explicit proof is given
 
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