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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Ednaxel2 said:
Yeah it's above it?
Click to expand...
I might be confusing myself, what is the multi-stellar feat?
Ednaxel2 said:
Also Frieza destroying planet vegeta in the anime was calced at large star with everyone scaling to solar system with later multipliers
Click to expand...
but you don't have multipliers (or at least not many)
It only exists up to Kaioken x4 in this canon and the best you can do with the supersayan is to scale it above the ozaru (x10)
There is no reason to misuse the word several and give it a x3 with zarbon or others,
There is no guide to find the exact multiplier of ss grade 2 and 3 only has a mention of percentages that do not even reach x2 at grade 2
You have no mention of exact percentages of Freeza except for 100%
Furthermore, the feat should be reviewed, because considering the pacing of Abriged it is even possible that they increased the speed somewhat (for example, I think that the feat of Piccolo destroying the moon happens at a higher speed than the original anime)
 
Tbf that feat feels a bit iffy. The background changes completely: not only the stars behind the planet, but also the stars at its surroundings.

Also i think i've seen that Kakarott (which iirc there was a crt to make it canon) does not show the hole at all
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Has glassman ever made a downgrade thread that's gotten rejected?
Click to expand...
He made a big downgrade thread for sonic the hedgehog but at best the only thing that happened were abilities getting new justifications, but nothing too big. I'm fairly certain he made a dbh downgrade thread like last year but everything was rejected too.
 
Tbh they don’t make sense with our current scaling that insists the only power up Gohan got was his SS2 and not an additional rage amp considering SS1 Gohan would’ve been more than enough to kill full power perfect cell yet we accept the later as substantially superior to him.

Its either Gohan unlocked SS2 and got 10x stronger via rage to stomp Buff Cell or Buff Cell is not 10x FP perfect cell as originally thought.

There is also downscaling since SS2 is just 100x base practically every SS2 is baseline 4-B in base now.
 
I think people don't take into account SS2 wasn't made with a 2x multiplier in mind.

It changed by the Buu saga where it does feel like a 2x multiplier once it was made a proper transformation rather than Gohan's hidden power or a 5th grade Super Saiyan
 
Do we have a speed scaling blog for toei z and GT?

QRD

Z

Base Goku / Casual weighted Paikuhan cross the afterflife : 10.750 Sextillion

SSJ Goku (pre Otherworld tournament) :
537.45 Sextillion

Weightless Paikuhan/ SS1 Goku ( OWT): 26.87 Septillion

Super Kaioken/ Max speed Paikuhan (likely): 53.745 Septillion

Base Goku 7 years later: 53.745 septillion ( surpassed everyone in the afterlife which implies superiority in base over his previous peak in power, considering this is brought up when discussing fusion that needed near matched PLs to perform)

SS1 Goku 2.68 Octilion

SS2 Goku : 268 Octillion ( given that Súper Kaioken exists in this continuity Goku using SS2 has the implication of it being faster and stronger than that so 100x base speed at least)

Post RosaT SS3 Gotenks: at least 26.87 nonillion

Post Defusion Base Goku: 26.87 nonillion

Kid Buu fight SS3 Goku: 2.687 decillion


GT

Base GT Goku: 2.687 decillion

Meta Rildo : 134.36 decillion

Parasite baby: 134.36 decillion ( absorbed Rildos power into his own )

SS1 Goten: 6.71 undecillion ( matched parasite baby in base )

SS1 Gohan : 335.90 undecillion ( matched SS1 Baby Goten in base)

SS1 Goku : 16.79 duodecillion ( stomped SS1 Gohan in base )

Super Baby Vegeta 2 : 33.59 duodecillion ( it’s his SS3 equivalent according to guides and stomped SS3 Goku as a mere SS1)

Super 17 ( pre ki absorbtion): at least 33.59 duodecillion ( no sold Majuubs punch)

SS1 Gohan / Vegeta / Trunks / Goten : 1.679 tredecillion ( even in base they expected their attacks against 17 to achieve something despite witnessing Majuub get tanked, implying comparatibility to him in base; maybe not supposing they’re dumb and are out of their depth)

SS4 Goku / Post ki absorbtion S17 : 3.35 tredecillion ( only SS2 has solid scaling above a 2x speed multiplier)

Base Nouva: 3.35 tredecillion ( ‘on a different level compared to other shadow dragons’ which would include rage shenron who stomped SS4 Goku)

SS4 Goku/ FP SS4: 335 tredecillion ( matched Base Nouva in base, if not FPSS4 is definitely this fast given he absorbed SS1 Gohan Goten and Trunks’ ki into his base prior to transforming)

SS4 Gogeta: 3.35 Quattorodecillion ( likely considering base fusions > strongest forms, even just having base Gogeta scale above SS2 Goku would make him this fast as soon as he goes SS4)

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
AguilaR202 said:
SS4 Gogeta: 3.35 Quattorodecillion ( likely considering base fusions > strongest forms, even just having base Gogeta scale above SS2 Goku would make him this fast as soon as he goes SS4)

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I dunno if their speed is 3.35 Quattorodecillion, but to help with the math: SSJ4 Gogeta’s power is superior to a standard SSJ4 by “tens of times.” Both in Guide and on Website.

So potentially far greater than you calculated.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Do we have a speed scaling blog for toei z and GT?

QRD

Z

Base Goku / Casual weighted Paikuhan cross the afterflife : 10.750 Sextillion

SSJ Goku (pre Otherworld tournament) :
537.45 Sextillion

Weightless Paikuhan/ SS1 Goku ( OWT): 26.87 Septillion

Super Kaioken/ Max speed Paikuhan (likely): 53.745 Septillion

Base Goku 7 years later: 53.745 septillion ( surpassed everyone in the afterlife which implies superiority in base over his previous peak in power, considering this is brought up when discussing fusion that needed near matched PLs to perform)

SS1 Goku 2.68 Octilion

SS2 Goku : 268 Octillion ( given that Súper Kaioken exists in this continuity Goku using SS2 has the implication of it being faster and stronger than that so 100x base speed at least)

Post RosaT SS3 Gotenks: at least 26.87 nonillion

Post Defusion Base Goku: 26.87 nonillion

Kid Buu fight SS3 Goku: 2.687 decillion


GT

Base GT Goku: 2.687 decillion

Meta Rildo : 134.36 decillion

Parasite baby: 134.36 decillion ( absorbed Rildos power into his own )

SS1 Goten: 6.71 undecillion ( matched parasite baby in base )

SS1 Gohan : 335.90 undecillion ( matched SS1 Baby Goten in base)

SS1 Goku : 16.79 duodecillion ( stomped SS1 Gohan in base )

Super Baby Vegeta 2 : 33.59 duodecillion ( it’s his SS3 equivalent according to guides and stomped SS3 Goku as a mere SS1)

Super 17 ( pre ki absorbtion): at least 33.59 duodecillion ( no sold Majuubs punch)

SS1 Gohan / Vegeta / Trunks / Goten : 1.679 tredecillion ( even in base they expected their attacks against 17 to achieve something despite witnessing Majuub get tanked, implying comparatibility to him in base, maybe not supposing they’re dumb and are out of their depth)

SS4 Goku / Post ki absorbtion S17 : 3.35 tredecillion ( only SS2 has solid scaling above a 2x speed multiplier)

Base Nouva: 3.35 tredecillion ( ‘on a different level compared to other shadow dragons’ which would include rage shenron who stomped SS4 Goku)

SS4 Goku/ FP SS4: 335 tredecillion ( matched Base Nouva in base, if not FPSS4 is definitely this fast given he absorbed SS1 Gohan Goten and Trunks into his base prior to transforming)

SS4 Gogeta: 3.35 Quattorodecillion ( likely considering base fusions > strongest forms, even just having base Gogeta scale above SS2 Goku would make him this fast as soon as he goes SS4)

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
DDM told me SSJ4 is SSJ3 X Oozaru so SSJ4 is 10x SSJ3
 
RedReaper said:
I dunno if their speed is 3.35 Quattorodecillion, but to help with the math: SSJ4 Gogeta’s power is superior to a standard SSJ4 by “tens of times.” Both in Guide and on Website.

So potentially far greater than you calculated.
Click to expand...
AFAIK we don’t really use anything but SS1 speed for multiplication, even SS2 at 20x via grade 3 is not considered in blogs for speed.

A lot of the scaling hinges on the SS2 SS3 multipliers being accepted at 2x and 4x times so maybe if they’re accepted due to DBZKakarot canon thread we can extrapolate more values off this


Brogeefrong said:
DDM told me SSJ4 is SSJ3 X Oozaru so SSJ4 is 10x SSJ3
Click to expand...

Its actually 80x-100x SS3

SS3 Goku < Baby SS1 < 8xSuper Baby 2 (SS3 equivalent) < Golden Oozar Goku < at least 8x Golden Oozaru Baby < SS4 Goku with the exact same base power.
 
AguilaR202 said:
AFAIK we don’t really use anything but SS1 speed for multiplication, even SS2 at 20x via grade 3 is not considered in blogs for speed.

A lot of the scaling hinges on the SS2 SS3 multipliers being accepted at 2x and 4x times so maybe if they’re accepted due to DBZKakarot canon thread we can extrapolate more values off this




Its actually 80x-100x SS3

SS3 Goku < Baby SS1 < 8xSuper Baby 2 (SS3 equivalent) < Golden Oozar Goku < at least 8x Golden Oozaru Baby < SS4 Goku with the exact same base power.
Click to expand...
Uh, what?

It should go SS3 Goku < Baby SSJ1 < SSJ2 Baby < SSJ3 Goku (with Tail, as he returned feeling stronger and could put up a fight against SB2, though SB2 eventually won-Albeit casually) < SB2 (Baby’s SSJ3 Equivalent) < Golden Oozaru Goku < SSJ4 Goku < Golden Oozaru Baby < Blutz Wave Amped Golden Oozaru Baby < SFPSSJ4 Goku.

Edit: Included Blutz Wave Amp
 
RedReaper said:
Uh, what?

It should go SS3 Goku < Baby SSJ1 < SSJ2 Baby < SSJ3 Goku (with Tail, as he returned feeling stronger and could put up a fight against SB2, though SB2 eventually won-Albeit casually) < SB2 (Baby’s SSJ3 Equivalent) < Golden Oozaru Goku < SSJ4 Goku < Golden Oozaru Baby < SFPSSJ4 Goku.
Click to expand...
Baby literally states Goku didn’t get any stronger despite the tail.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Baby literally states Goku didn’t get any stronger despite the tail.
Click to expand...
I always attributed that to being Baby’s Ego. After all, once Goku DID become stronger than him (as a SSJ4) he profusely denied it until it became so apparent Bulma needed to amp him with Blutz Waves.

Edit: Assuming that he was speaking literally, though, that still doesn’t change the fact Golden Oozaru Baby > SSJ4 Goku.

It’s SFPSSJ4 Goku > Amped Golden Oozaru Baby.
 
Actually SS3 Goku was even with SS Baby, they both hit and smiled at each other during the fight, but because Goku couldn't handle SS3 in his child body he lost power and returned to normal.
 
RedReaper said:
I always attributed that to being Baby’s Ego. After all, once Goku DID become stronger than him (as a SSJ4) he profusely denied it until it became so apparent Bulma needed to amp him with Blutz Waves.

Edit: Assuming that he was speaking literally, though, that still doesn’t change the fact Golden Oozaru Baby > SSJ4 Goku.

It’s SFPSSJ4 Goku > Amped Golden Oozaru Baby.
Click to expand...
Edit: just rewatched the fight.

SS4 = Amped Oozaru Baby, they trade blows evenly for a few minutes and only get knocked simultaneously in a final clash, and this is despite both eating each others Garlick gun / KHH 10, the only thing that made baby stand out as marginally stronger is getting delayed damage from the KHH10 which still brought him down to a level where Goku who got hit head on by his super galick could also manage to KO him.

Second round Baby has the advantage because he gets restored by Brutz waves while Goku was just taking a nap, so presumably he got restored to his previous power, Goku then charges up his power with other Saiyans aiding him and gets a definite advantage over Baby this time eating his strongest attack without substantial damage and instantly knocking him out with a KHH10

So Amped Golden Oozaru = SS4 < FPSS4

But was even the initial SS4 we saw operating at 100% ? Goku didn’t get any heals and power loss is carries over to Oozaru as seen with Vegeta in the Saiyan saga, baby was definitely at max all times since the blutz waves were used to restore him.
 
Last edited:
https://ibb.co/4tWrYqh (Episode 123 of Super)
Why this statement ignored to scale ToP base Goku to atleast Goku Black arc SSB Kaioken x20, since Jiren's barrage punches>Merged Zamasu attacks and the fact that base Goku fights alone side Golden Frieza and Android 17. Its seems blatant that Goku was power creeping throughout the tournament.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Edit: just rewatched the fight.

SS4 = Amped Oozaru Baby, they trade blows evenly for a few minutes and only get knocked simultaneously in a final clash, and this is despite both eating each others Garlick gun / KHH 10, the only thing that made baby stand out as marginally stronger is getting delayed damage from the KHH10 which still brought him down to a level where Goku who got hit head on by his super galick could also manage to KO him.
Click to expand...
While they do fight evenly for a bit, it’s made blatantly clear before the 10x Kamehameha knocks him down that in that exchange Baby was losing steam due to the cost of forcing his body to unnaturally taking the form of the Oozaru. Further, it’s outright stated that Baby exceeded Goku’s power in the Perfect Files.

AguilaR202 said:
Second round Baby has the advantage because he gets restored by Brutz waves while Goku was just taking a nap, so presumably he got restored to his previous power, Goku then charges up his power with other Saiyans aiding him and gets a definite advantage over Baby…
Click to expand...
This is true—But then have an even exchange. Also, despite fighting at his “restored power” immediately after the boost, he is able to fight the powered up FPSSJ4 Goku when he goes all out. Meaning either his previous full power (which he had to of used, otherwise why was he knocked out?) means he was temporarily nerfed since the very beginning (which contradicts the restored statement), or Baby got stronger. The answer, according to Perfect Files, is he got stronger. (Episode 37 Summary)

“壮絶!!ベビーと悟空ダブルKO!
ベビーはブルーツ波でパワー倍増、悟空はパワーをなくし危機に。 地球では超神水による人類浄化が成功!!

Sōzetsu! ! Bebī to Gokū daburu KO! Bebī wa burūtsu-ha de pawā baizō, Gokū wa pawā o nakushi kiki ni. Chikyūde wa chō jinzui ni yoru jinrui jōka ga seikō! !

Epic!!! Baby and Goku double KO!
Baby's power is doubled by the Brutz waves, while Goku loses his power and is in danger. On Earth, the purification of mankind by Super Divine Water succeeds!“
AguilaR202 said:
…this time eating his strongest attack without substantial damage and instantly knocking him out with a KHH10
Click to expand...
Goku absorbs the Revenge Death Ball. This is the moment he entirely outclasses Amped Baby.
AguilaR202 said:
But was even the initial SS4 we saw operating at 100% ? Goku didn’t get any heals and power loss is carries over to Oozaru as seen with Vegeta in the Saiyan saga, baby was definitely at max all times since the blutz waves were used to restore him.
Click to expand...
Unsure.
 
Veronica said:
https://ibb.co/4tWrYqh (Episode 123 of Super)
Why this statement ignored to scale ToP base Goku to atleast Goku Black arc SSB Kaioken x20, since Jiren's barrage punches>Merged Zamasu attacks and the fact that base Goku fights alone side Golden Frieza and Android 17. Its seems blatant that Goku was power creeping throughout the tournament.
Click to expand...
Post UI 2 SSB scaling above UI 1 makes base Goku > Black arc SSB given that UI1 alone is > Blue Vegito and Base Vegito should be > SSB Goku/Vegeta from the black arc.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Hypothecaly, where a Toei Goten and Toei Trunks would scale, 4-A?
I need the information real quick for a thing.
Click to expand...
They scale above 18 who is above SS1 Goku during Cooler who is the first one to be 4-A+ in toei scale, at peak with SS1 they’re guide stated ( iirc) strongest warriors left on earth while Goku/Gohan/Vegeta were Dead/MIA which might make them above Kamicolo post-RoSAT so they’re most likely 3-C.
 
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