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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Nah, it doesn't change tiers or anything.

It's just removing his keys for the Super 17 and Shadow Dragons arc, since the entire premise of those are "He matched Super 17 as a Super Saiyan while Majuub did diddly squat" when in reality Super 17 was holding back at first (Even he says so "I thought you were different, but you're the same as all the rest, I can read all your moves") and proceede to clover him hard (even made him drop out of Super Saiyan twice) until he went Super Saiyan 4.
 
Atp the only way to downgrade DB tiers is to downgrade the cosmology which is impossible since the realms in the macrocosm fit a lot of the criteria needed to be considered seperate space-times usually you only need to hit one of the main criteria but db has like all of them besides the realms being depicted as bubble worlds even without toei/gt it should’ve been 2-C
 
godofice said:
Atp the only way to downgrade DB tiers is to downgrade the cosmology which is impossible since the realms in the macrocosm fit a lot of the criteria needed to be considered seperate space-times usually you only need to hit one of the main criteria but db has like all of them besides the realms being depicted as bubble worlds even without toei/gt it should’ve been 2-C
Click to expand...
impossible, he says, lol
 
BlastX said:
Why would I do that if I supported the upgrades, this is only based on wrong scaling, not the feat or anything.
Click to expand...
Nope, Goku watched them all get equally btfo by S17 whilst in hell, and still felt comfortable starting with SS1 against him.
 
I was remembering some things said here on vsbttles, the counterarguments are very meaningless, for example Zeno'oh is not 2-B because it exists in other timelines and such, but in such a work x certain character exists in the past, present, future and at the same time there are thousands of races like him and he is 5D/ low 1-C

Can it?
 
This is the same guy who later fired a Kamehameha x10 despite knowing his opponent absorbs energy.

He ain't that smart, and doesn't change the fact Super 17 just ****** around with him, got disappointed and curbstomped him with ease.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I was remembering some things said here on vsbttles, the counterarguments are very meaningless, for example Zeno'oh is not 2-B because it exists in other timelines and such, but in such a work x certain character exists in the past, present, future and at the same time there are thousands of races like him and he is 5D/ low 1-C
Click to expand...
How about he has no 2-B feats and the one time he erases the ‘world’ he only takes out one 12 macrocosm timeline?

BlastX said:
This is the same guy who later fired a Kamehameha x10 despite knowing his opponent absorbs energy.

He ain't that smart, and doesn't change the fact Super 17 just ****** around with him, got disappointed and curbstomped him with ease.
Click to expand...
My man he literally only found out 17 absorbed energy AFTER he used his KHH10, you are not paying attention. PIS is not an argument.

It matters not if he got stomped, he had a longer solo fight against a S17 that stomped the rest of them, even s17 mocking him isn’t hard evidence as he only really does say, you suck like everyone else lol, which doesn’t Imply inferiority at all.
 
GT speed scaling

Buu Saga Base Goku: 4.38 quadrillion c

SS3 Goku: 219 quadrillion c

Post-HTC SS1 Gotenks: 10.96 quintillion c

Buutenks: 21.9 quintillion c

Buuhan: 43.8 quintillion c

(BSS) Base Goku :1 (43.8 quintillion c)

(BSS) SS1 Goku : 50x

Rildo Base / Sigma / Meta: 1/50/50

Baby: 50 (assuming he scales to either Sigma or Meta Rildo as opposed to Base)

SS1 Goten: 2500x

SS1 Gohan: 125,000x

SS1 Goku: 6,250,000x

Majuub : 6,250,000x

Golden Great Ape/SS4: 62,500,000x

(S17) Base Gohan : 6,250,000x (Majuub expected Base Gohans KHH to be more effective than his own attacks vs S17 and was left in disbelief when it failed )

SS1 Gohan / Goku / Vegeta: 312,500,000x

SS4 Goku: 3,125,000,000x

Rage Shenron: 3,125,000,000x (no sold SS4 KHH x10)

Base Nova : 3,125,000,000x (stated to be above the previous dragons)

Base Goku: 3,125,000,000x (defeated Base Nova)

SS4 Goku : 1,562,500,000,000x

FPSS4 Goku: 15,625,000,000,000x w/ Dragon Hammer or Self Destrcution

Omega : 15,625,000,000,000x

Feel free to plug this shit into a calculator I'm not doing that
 
Dude, he actually found out he absorbed energy before he launched the KHHx10, that's why he did it.

What longer fight? The only reason he lasted that long was because he let himself get hit and was just smirking the whole time, once he went serious he hit Goku so hard he knocked him out of Super Saiyan twice, he lasted even less if we go that route.
 
BlastX said:
Dude, he actually found out he absorbed energy before he launched the KHHx10, that's why he did it.

What longer fight? The only reason he lasted that long was because he let himself get hit and was just smirking the whole time, once he went serious he hit Goku so hard he knocked him out of Super Saiyan twice, he lasted even less if we go that route.
Click to expand...

He only theorized s17 was doing that, and launched his KHH10 and confirmed his suspicion, even if the end result backfired on him, the fact he went to lengths to gauge his opponent makes your PIS argument even less likely.

S17 literally stomped everyone casually not even having to move locations, SS1 Goku punched him across the planet and showcased better feats than everyone else did against him, for your argument to work you need to assume he lowered his power below of what he used to stomp Uub and everyone else just for Goku specifically, and even then you only have him mentioning Gokus performance was similar to the group he previously stomped which also includes Uub.
 
I conceed on the first point since I just rewatched it subbed (since I only had the Español Latino version to go off from) Still the fact it took him that long to realize it and once he went SSJ4 he resorted to spam ki blast like no tomorrow instead of...IDK, punching him is definitely a dumb move, but then again this entire saga if dripping with PIS.

Dude, that punch did nothing, he literally just laughed about it after he was launched across the planet, the others did put a same fight since they managed to survive in base and managed to take a flash bomber, Vegeta even put on the same fight as him since he was still standing and going back to Super Saiyan everytime he knocked him out of it, even managed to catch him by surprise once by an afterimage (which didn't work because he countered that but he was still shocked), the only blows SSJ1 Goku got on 17 was stuff he let him do to test him (which again, I reiterate that he just laughed it off) after he got disappointed Super 17 assblasted with ease, only letting himself get hit by Ki Blast because it benefited him.
 
Like, I guess I'll be ok if the key was kept if he did perform "Better" than the others, but it should be made clear it wasn't against a Massively held back Super 17, SSJ1 Goku was never a match for him.
 
SDBH hax/resistance layers

Dark Ki < Demon God Power < God Ki < Time Power < Dark Factor

FAR extreme lowball btw because this isn't even considering the subsequent layers generated by characters being stronger than each other
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Releases a planet-wide super-virus that aims to extinguish the population targeted...

...which has been stated to work on alien planets in the past. The reason Jaco cautioned that the bomb would wipe out only the humans on the planet is likely because he understood that Saiyans were ineffective, and his only "motivation" for wanting to use the bomb was to prevent warring between the humans and the impending Saiyan child.
Click to expand...
If this were accepted it would also apply to Cell (Saiyan genes) and possibly Freeza (The Galactic Patrol can't do anything to him and actively try to avoid battling him, implying their super viruses are ineffective against him). I don't think there's anything on Moro's profile either and the Galactic Patrol were incapable of killing him via any means.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
If this were accepted it would also apply to Cell (Saiyan genes) and possibly Freeza (The Galactic Patrol can't do anything to him and actively try to avoid battling him, implying their super viruses are ineffective against him). I don't think there's anything on Moro's profile either and the Galactic Patrol were incapable of killing him via any means.
Click to expand...
I remember there's a quote that the Galactic Patrol couldn't kill him at all. So it must apply to him, I guess.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
If this were accepted it would also apply to Cell (Saiyan genes) and possibly Freeza (The Galactic Patrol can't do anything to him and actively try to avoid battling him, implying their super viruses are ineffective against him). I don't think there's anything on Moro's profile either and the Galactic Patrol were incapable of killing him via any means.
Click to expand...
I'll throw them out. What about Buu and Beerus
 
What is Majin Buu's regeneration level? Use scan to confirm your arguments and at least 5 lines of arguments

(A) Level: cells or cell phone

(B )Level: molecules

(C )Level: atoms

 
Last edited:
godofice said:
Well I know in the manga a planet tries to poison Beerus and he eats the poison and he tells them that their attempt of poisoning him doesn’t work because he’s a god and then he destroyed the planet
Click to expand...
Well, this could be something like resistance to poison, if I'm not mistaken that Galactic Patrol's extinction bomb uses a virus.
 
SwordLegendz01 said:
Well, this could be something like resistance to poison, if I'm not mistaken that Galactic Patrol's extinction bomb uses a virus.
Click to expand...
If he can't get got by biological warfare then chances are the extinction bomb isn't gonna do a damn thing to him, especially considering all it takes to resist it in the Dragon Ball universe is to be the most minimal level of "higher life-form"
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
If he can't get got by biological warfare then chances are the extinction bomb isn't gonna do a damn thing to him, especially considering all it takes to resist it in the Dragon Ball universe is to be the most minimal level of "higher life-form"
Click to expand...
No, we have discussed this including the use of hakai. And it is stated not least that some characters have high Ki mastery to fight some hax in DB. Perhaps it will be backed up with some narrative statements. Because Toriyama also said mastery of Ki is very important for battle.
 
Alright MAGGOTS listen up!

Because of infinite universes, we have couple of problems with our speed values for Toei crossing the universe/DBS shockwave stuff. All of these gotta go. These are either infinite speed feats (oh god, oh ****), or just unusable.

We need a backup in case infinite is rejected (which unfortunately, is the likelier scenario).

Gas has a MFTL+ flight feat in the manga, so that one is covered. But we need other feats for earlier arcs.

In the anime, there's a MFTL+ flight speed from the parasite being-thingy arc, which also works perfectly and is early enough into the series that we can apply good ol' multiplier abuse

Toei/GT, on the other hand, is quite tricky. I don't remember good feats off the top of my head, so we gotta search for some.

Again, this is may be the slightly less worse case scenario (the worse case is default to multiplier stuff from Buu Saga onwards, which jesus christ pls no), but it's also the more likely one. So we need to compile these feats pronto.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Alright MAGGOTS listen up!

Because of infinite universes, we have couple of problems with our speed values for Toei crossing the universe/DBS shockwave stuff. All of these gotta go. These are either infinite speed feats (oh god, oh ****), or just unusable.

We need a backup in case infinite is rejected (which unfortunately, is the likelier scenario).

Gas has a MFTL+ flight feat in the manga, so that one is covered. But we need other feats for earlier arcs.

In the anime, there's a MFTL+ flight speed from the parasite being-thingy arc, which also works perfectly and is early enough into the series that we can apply good ol' multiplier abuse

Toei/GT, on the other hand, is quite tricky. I don't remember good feats off the top of my head, so we gotta search for some.

Again, this is may be the slightly less worse case scenario (the worse case is default to multiplier stuff from Buu Saga onwards, which jesus christ pls no), but it's also the more likely one. So we need to compile these feats pronto.
Click to expand...
What’s wrong with toeiverse’s infinite speed feats? There’s no contradictions for toeiverse‘s infinite speed feats its actually more consistent

dbs the only argument was the t.o.p thing and I had a friend of mine check out the t.o.p episodes if it told us how much time passed during a fight and this is what he said

”OKAY I just looked it up, in the TOP only about 55-54 episodes were the maximum number of episodes for the TOP arc. And in those number of episodes only about 34 of them were ACTUALLY fights. Remember that each episode
Had a minute pass only at the END of an episode and the whole TOP was 45 mins, in the TOP they stop and talk multiple times between fights which allows time to pass. Because there is no WAY they are using infinite speed while stopping and talking. HERE'S AN ARGUMENT FOR THE INFINITE SPEED DBS CRT: Time was never shown to be passing whilst the characters are fighting and time is only noted as PASSING when an episode ends, it should even be noted that characters stop, talk, rest, monologue and transform MULTIPLE times during these fights which can very well allow time to flow again since they are no longer using infinite speed. It is very well possible for DBS characters to have infinite speed because the TOP has NO anti feats, time hasn't been shown to pass while they are fighting and they stop, talk and rest multiple times, which would allow the flow of time to resume since they are not resting, talking, monologuing etc at infinite speed. They are only fighting at that speed and in those fights, time was NEVER stated as ’PASSING’ ”

My friend also told me

”Bro you have no idea how many times I saw chariot say "time was passing in the TOP" I went "HUH!?"
they literally stop, talk, rest and do some many things besides fighting. Why should it be assumed that they have infinite speed the whole time when they stop multiple times, WHICH would allow time to pass.
The narrator has also never shown time pass while they were fighting. He only says time passes at the end of an episode AND in those episodes they stop and talk multiple times which would ALLOW time to pass.
So they do have infinite speed”


So t.o.p isn’t a contradiction and if someone argues time passes during a fight they should send scans for it as their burden of proof
 
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