Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[RinneItachi]

He was clearly giving him props and even called him "godly" when he went into MUI

He's clearly impressed by that level of power

He's been giving Goku props since they first fought, when Beerus was still barely even playing around, or when Beerus complimented Vegeta when he used CSSJB against him. Whis also constantly gives the Saiyan's praise for their ridiculous growth rate. That's not really a good argument in Dragon Ball.

Read the above. Just being impressed of someone's power doesn't mean that said person is comparable. Zeno is completely amazed by almost all the fighters in the ToP, does that mean Hit can one shot him?

 

[Maxnumb231]

him stating something that isn't correlated to power has nothing to do with power level, like I said on quote he was talking about how he moves, so no. That being said it seems you forget that beerus in BoG was also "impressed" vs enraged vegeta and when he fought SSG. this literally dont mean anything to scale when beerus thinks of something is impressive

 

[RinneItachi]

That's clearly being impressed with someone. If he was above him then he wouldn't be impressed.

Keep trying

Since when does being impressed mean that they're weaker? That's a complete logical fallacy.

"kEeP tRyInG" Is something people say when they don't want to talk reasonably. Don't be rude because you're annoyed that someone disagrees with you. The point of this site is to debate.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Is the idea of Beerus still being insanely powerful compared to everyone else also in DBH? Apparently it was stated that even Mechikabura at his strongest could still be defeated by any God of Destruction

 

[Maxnumb231]

That being said u can stick to promotional magazines and "consistency" but the matter of fact when it comes to narrative plot beerus is still relevant in power and it was showcased in this chapter. If beerus was so much inferior to moro and goku he would be useless EVEN IF KNEW the weakness, because he needs enough power to break the crystal AND speed to get to moro, which goku by his own power could not reach moro until he got boosted by uub.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Is the idea of Beerus still being insanely powerful compared to everyone else also in DBH? Apparently it was stated that even Mechikabura at his strongest could still be defeated by any God of Destruction

then again its not canon so people would argue that...

 

[RinneItachi]

Yeah, it's the thing where the writers just go "lol we don't want the main character to be comparable yet so their benchmark is practically omnipotent". They want Beerus to stay above the main cast for a very long time so the fans can keep getting excited at the ridiculous power of the Dragon Ball characters. It keeps people talking, buying, and watching. It's the smart thing to do for making money.

 

[RinneItachi]

I'm sure Goku will likely surpass Beerus someday, but, at least in the manga, it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

He's been giving Goku props since they first fought, when Beerus was still barely even playing around, or when Beerus complimented Vegeta when he used CSSJB against him. Whis also constantly gives the Saiyan's praise for their ridiculous growth rate. That's not really a good argument in Dragon Ball.

Read the above. Just being impressed of someone's power doesn't mean that said person is comparable. Zeno is completely amazed by almost all the fighters in the ToP, does that mean Hit can one shot him?

He's never stated that he was godly in any other form. He didn't say that to Vegeta either. Just that he'd be some low level GoD in a different universe (comparable to Toppo). MUI was stated to be a realm that GoDs couldn't reach which would include Beerus. There are no feats that puts him above that level. Let's move away from the praise argument. Can you show me any tangible evidence from the manga that Beerus is stronger? Any proof that he could take on a Mastered UI user or even Omen for that matter?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

@RinneItachi yeah but it kinda does get annoying when you have the writers hype up the next guy as being stronger then Beerus or being above the Gods of Destruction and then you find out Beerus is stronger still, not that it's a bad thing from a business perspective but from a narrative viewpoint it's like we get it already.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

him stating something that isn't correlated to power has nothing to do with power level, like I said on quote he was talking about how he moves, so no. That being said it seems you forget that beerus in BoG was also "impressed" vs enraged vegeta and when he fought SSG. this literally dont mean anything to scale when beerus thinks of something is impressive

You could literally use the same argument against Beerus's statement that he'd finish it quickly. You can't use double standards.

It was also stated directly by Whis that destroying the crystal was the only way to defeat him properly, which debunks it regardless.

 

[Dragomer]

Unless you have statements or actual proof, then you're simply stating headcanon here. You can't even prove that he's above Belmod let alone Jiren (which he's confirmed to be above).

Cope.

The manga isn't a headcanon, it's bad as a fanfic but it's still the truth.

The chapter literaly can't be more clear that Beerus was about to stomp Moro, you can drop the cope now.

 

[Dragomer]

Is the idea of Beerus still being insanely powerful compared to everyone else also in DBH? Apparently it was stated that even Mechikabura at his strongest could still be defeated by any God of Destruction

Yup, the DBH guys outright stated that if the GoDs showed up at any point earlier in the story, the story would have been over immediatly.

And Fu is literaly planned by Towa to be the next Mechikabura and is even stronger than Mechikabura.

 

[RinneItachi]

Read chapter 2 of the manga, Beerus is literally impressed by SSJ3 Goku back then, even saying he's "not bad", despite the fact that Goku shouldn't be close to a comprehensible fraction of a percentage of Beerus' power. Saying he looks godly or any other form of praise is completely irrelevant and unreliable for scaling the two.

Was that stated in the manga? Regardless, that's clearly not only a hyperbole when Beerus already has a lesser version of it, is also not even remotely referencing his actual power in comparison to Beerus, and isn't a direct statement about him being superior to Beerus. At most, the point of it just implies that he's roughly GoD level, but can't be used to scale him above Beerus in specific. And again, it's not a statement of power. Even if it was stated that Beerus could quite literally never perfect MUI, that's not the same as saying that Goku could beat him in a fight. There's a pretty massive difference between those two things. Yeah, Beerus implied that he could finish off Moro with ease, and could do so swiftly, while MUI Goku struggled and was mad at himself for failing. Disregarding that though, the burden of proof lies on you, not me. Beerus has been superior to Goku for a while now, and what needs to be proven is that Goku has sufficient evidence to support him being beyond Beerus' level, not the other way around. The only thing manga Goku actually has is indirect scaling to someone who has very few and vague implications of debatable superiority to Beerus.

 

[Maxnumb231]

You could literally use the same argument against Beerus's statement that he'd finish it quickly. You can't use double standards.

It was also stated directly by Whis that destroying the crystal was the only way to defeat him properly, which debunks it regardless.

You clearly missed the entire point, and literally going off an assumption it was meant to be a power level when it was specifically stated it was not but ok. There's no double standards on what he means finishing quickly or giving respect to how goku moves in UI, no correlation at all

 

[RinneItachi]

yeah but it kinda does get annoying when you have the writers hype up the next guy as being stronger then Beerus or being above the Gods of Destruction and then you find out Beerus is stronger still, not that it's a bad thing from a business perspective but from a narrative viewpoint it's like we get it already.

I fully agree. Actually I dislike that Goku hasn't definitively surpassed Beerus yet. As much as I like Beerus, I'd prefer it if they had kept Beerus around the level of SSJB Goku (RoF), while simply making the realm of gods a bit larger. You have the God's of Destruction (personally I'd have preferred it if Beerus was just mid tier among them), the Angels above them, the Grand Priest, Zeno's Attendants (obviously still no idea where they place but I'd imagine they're at least above the Angels), then Zeno. The realm of gods should've been larger, with maybe more universes, and they shouldn't have had Beerus look like an unreachable goal.

 

[RinneItachi]

Btw, I know only anime Whis has a page and that only manga Whis has this feat, but on Whis' page it says "Clairvoyance with his staff", but Whis here noticed Goku defeating Moro without the use of his staff, which implies that Whis has some type of Clairvoyance without it. If manga Whis were to get a page, that specification wouldn't be needed, or could be removed if anime Whis gets a similar feat.

 

[Dragomer]

Btw, I know only anime Whis has a page and that only manga Whis has this feat, but on Whis' page it says "Clairvoyance with his staff", but Whis here noticed Goku defeating Moro without the use of his staff, which implies that Whis has some type of Clairvoyance without it. If manga Whis were to get a page, that specification wouldn't be needed, or could be removed if anime Whis gets a similar feat.

Could just be cosmic awareness or just him sensing Moro's ki dissapearing tho.

 

[RinneItachi]

He sensed it right once Goku hit him, with the destruction of Moro not being instant, so it's not the latter. I could see it being the former though. Of course, the actual answer is "lol the angels be mysterious and know when stuff happen". Like how they occasionally smile either ominously or just peculiarly after or before something happens/is about to happen. Like Whis smiling at the end of the Broly fight.

 

[RinneItachi]

But yeah it is definitely supposed to be something unique, as, if it was just something anyone could sense, there would be no reason to show only his reaction to it. Beerus didn't seem to have any reaction either.

Btw, if Goku ends up fighting and defeating a more experienced Uub in just his base form, it would imply that base Goku whenever that happens is superior to a slightly weakened SSJB Moro Arc Vegeta, who was strong enough to be considered possibly superior to UI Omen Moro Arc Goku. Which would be an especially big deal for manga Goku who hasn't gotten that much stronger, due to the fact that the manga version never absorbed the power of SSJG into his base form.

 

[Yoyco]

Beerus words can be taken in so many ways. If we take it as he was gonna stomp Moro then that really just throws most of the scaling out the window, but if we take it as he was gonna help UI Goku. That would make more sense tbh

This is the type of chaos you get with a senile old writer & incompetent fanboy work together to write a series.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

You clearly missed the entire point, and literally going off an assumption it was meant to be a power level when it was specifically stated it was not but ok. There's no double standards on what he means finishing quickly or giving respect to how goku moves in UI, no correlation at all

Pretty sure you're the one going off of assumptions when the context was stated clearly in the chapter.

There is no comparison of power level or contest of strength. Either the crystal is destroyed or the galaxy goes bye bye. Making any other assumption is clear headcanon.

 

[RinneItachi]

Him saying he would wrap it up quickly doesn't imply he was just going to give Goku some help. It implies that he was going to directly confront Moro himself, and defeat him in a short amount of time. Yes, if he was going to just target the weak point, which is headcanon, then it isn't as big of a deal, but is still more than noteworthy when Goku failed to do so, yet Beerus was confident in his ability to do it with ease and in a short time frame.

Pretty much. Toriyama is 65 years old, and seems to have some problems, even beyond his, needless to say, "poor" memory. Dragon Ball is kind of a mess now, although I'd say it was never amazing, let alone a masterpiece, just good and very entertaining.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Cope.

The manga isn't a headcanon, it's bad as a fanfic but it's still the truth.

The chapter literaly can't be more clear that Beerus was about to stomp Moro, you can drop the cope now.

Only Beerus stans would believe that tbh.

Manga says and portrays differently.

Come back when you have actual evidence. I'll be waiting

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Him saying he would wrap it up quickly doesn't imply he was just going to give Goku some help. It implies that he was going to directly confront Moro himself, and defeat him in a short amount of time. Yes, if he was going to just target the weak point, which is headcanon, then it isn't as big of a deal, but is still more than noteworthy when Goku failed to do so, yet Beerus was confident in his ability to do it with ease and in a short time frame.

Pretty much. Toriyama is 65 years old, and seems to have some problems, even beyond his, needless to say, "poor" memory. Dragon Ball is kind of a mess now, although I'd say it was never amazing, let alone a masterpiece, just good and very entertaining.

He literally says that he would lend a hand. Geez idk maybe that actually implies that he was going to help. And wanted to wrap it up quickly with Goku as the scan implies.

He also tells us that he doesn't want the Gods finding out that he's helping a mortal with their problems

Also clearly stated that losing Earth would be troublesome. Whis states that killing Moro while leaving the earth intact can only be done by shattering the crystal

 

[RinneItachi]

Lending a hand in this context =/= giving some support, and is ignoring the obvious implications, which were that he was going to defeat Moro himself. Hell, Whis was literally surprised, even though he held no surprise at Beerus lending some support to the earthlings before, which further implies that this is a unique case. And no, literally nothing implies that he would've done it with Goku.

And that's relevant in what way?

Yeah, and MUI Goku failed to do so on his own while Beerus was fully confident in his capabilities of performing said feat, which means that it would still make Beerus superior, so what about it? Whis was also saying that to Goku after knowing that Beerus couldn't step in, as they had to go to the Grand Priest, which means that it doesn't concretely apply to Beerus in the first place, and can only be assumed as such as there is no direct statement otherwise. And as I mentioned earlier, Beerus is still relatively unfazed by Goku's new power. If he was stronger than Beerus, I severely doubt Beerus would just make some random praiseful comments about Goku's new power, and say nothing else.

 

[RinneItachi]

Anyways, this all comes back to the fact that, in the manga, there is no directly concrete evidence at all that MUI Goku is genuinely capable of defeating Beerus. There are implications, and it is a possibility, but arguing that he is definitively stronger just doesn't work when there is so little noteworthy evidence whatsoever. The anime is far more debatable, and I'd say leans in Goku's favor, but not the manga.

 

[Dragomer]

Only Beerus stans would believe that tbh.

Manga says and portrays differently.

Come back when you have actual evidence. I'll be waiting

The manga : Lol, Beerus shitstomp.

Your cope : 'b-b-b-b-b-but actual evidence!!!'

We've had this discussion over and over again even since ROF happened, people should just give up at some point.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Lending a hand in this context =/= giving some support, and is ignoring the obvious implications, which were that he was going to defeat Moro himself. Hell, Whis was literally surprised, even though he held no surprise at Beerus lending some support to the earthlings before, which further implies that this is a unique case. And no, literally nothing implies that he would've done it with Goku.

And that's relevant in what way?

Yeah, and MUI Goku failed to do so on his own while Beerus was fully confident in his capabilities of performing said feat, which means that it would still make Beerus superior, so what about it? Whis was also saying that to Goku after knowing that Beerus couldn't step in, as they had to go to the Grand Priest, which means that it doesn't concretely apply to Beerus in the first place, and can only be assumed as such as there is no direct statement otherwise. And as I mentioned earlier, Beerus is still relatively unfazed by Goku's new power. If he was stronger than Beerus, I severely doubt Beerus would just make some random praiseful comments about Goku's new power, and say nothing else.

You serious? Now you're making up a context that clearly wasn't implied. "Lets make this quick" also implies that it could be quickly done with both of them working together. Never says "I'll make this quick" which seems to be what you've implying. Just more headcanon. He was clearly fazed since he was astonished that he reached such a level during the TOP. Beerus made no indication that he could beat MUI. Any other assumption is literally based off of nothing. Everything in the series and narrative points to UI being a level GoDs like Beerus simply can't reach. And Merus reaffirms that notion by saying no one could beat it (baring the angels ofc).

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

The manga : Lol, Beerus shitstomp.

Your cope : 'b-b-b-b-b-but actual evidence!!!'

We've had this discussion over and over again even since ROF happened, people should just give up at some point.

Lemme guess

Your argument amounts to "B-but he said lets finish it quickly". "H-he dodged all of the gods for 5 seconds!" You'd get someone put in jail with that evidence if this was in court. Lmao

Ig I'll still be waiting on proof for this nonsense. Lol

 

[Dragomer]

Lemme guess

Your argument amounts to "B-but he said lets finish it quickly". "H-he dodged all of the gods for 5 seconds!" You'd get someone put in jail with that evidence if this was in court. Lmao

Ig I'll still be waiting on proof for this nonsense. Lol

'Y-y-y-y-your argument ammounts to stuff that actualy happened !!!'

Cope, go back to crying SSJBKK10 Goku should beat Beerus.

 

[RinneItachi]

Lol. Literally almost everyone in the world would agree that the context of his intentions were that Beerus was going to defeat Moro himself, as he considered it a unique case that he wasn't sure if Goku could handle on his own, which we clearly see that he couldn't, and didn't want the Earth to be destroyed as he does like the planet. You're seriously arguing about him using the word "Lets" instead of "I'll" in his sentence? Is English not your main language or are you just that desperate? Come on dude, I'm literally not even going to address that "point" beyond this. Yeah, a mortal achieving a state within such a short time span that even he hasn't achieved is an impressive feat, but that doesn't mean anything in regards to who would win. Nor did Beerus make any implications that he couldn't beat MUI, which is what you need to prove, I don't know why you're trying to act as if the burden of proof is on whoever is arguing in Beerus' favor, when it blatantly isn't. You're making exaggerations and false claims based off of a hyperbole statement just meant to hype up MUI. You're using Merus' random NLF statement and trying to use headcanon to make the statement suit your argument.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Lol. Literally almost everyone in the world would agree that the context of his intentions were that Beerus was going to defeat Moro himself, as he considered it a unique case that he wasn't sure if Goku could handle on his own, which we clearly see that he couldn't, and didn't want the Earth to be destroyed as he does like the planet. You're seriously arguing about him using the word "Lets" instead of "I'll" in his sentence? Is English not your main language or are you just that desperate? Come on dude, I'm literally not even going to address that "point" beyond this. Yeah, a mortal achieving a state within such a short time span that even he hasn't achieved is an impressive feat, but that doesn't mean anything in regards to who would win. Nor did Beerus make any implications that he couldn't beat MUI, which is what you need to prove, I don't know why you're trying to act as if the burden of proof is on whoever is arguing in Beerus' favor, when it blatantly isn't. You're making exaggerations and false claims based off of a hyperbole statement just meant to hype up MUI. You're using Merus' random NLF statement and trying to use headcanon to make the statement suit your argument.

The fact that you're not even going to address any of my points tells me that you really don't have any answer to them. Yeah I know Beerus fanboys from around the world would think ot would be that content, but we're told literary in the manga that there's only one way to defeat Moro. Not sure why it's not getting through to you but it could be due to denial I guess. "I'll lend a hand" in no way shows that he was going to solo or beat anything by himself. How about we use a dictionary since you still don't get it.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lend a hand

"To provide help"

https://www.yourdictionary.com/lend-a-hand

(idiomatic) To help or assist, especially voluntarily.

"If we all lend a hand the work will go quickly."

Oh wow would you look at that! All definitions point to it being a cooperative effort. Nothing else is insinuated here. You're the one exaggerating and making assumptions without backing anything up. At this point you're just rambling with nothing to show for it. If you can't counter any of my points and choose to ignore them, then I suggest you concede and drop it man.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

'Y-y-y-y-your argument ammounts to stuff that actualy happened !!!'

Cope, go back to crying SSJBKK10 Goku should beat Beerus.

Yeah you've got nothing which I expected

Hey guys! This is what happens when someone loses an argument and can't back anything up to prove their point.

Isn't it funny? Made me giggle tbh

 

[Dragomer]

Yeah you've got nothing which I expected

Hey guys! This is what happens when someone loses an argument and can't back anything up to prove their point.

Isn't it funny? Made me giggle tbh

You : is shown the manga

Also you : i-i-i-i-it's nothing!!!

Who was talking about headcanons again?

Cope. We'll see you next arc when Beerus laugh at the guy Goku will say 'wow, you could one shot Moro' to.

 

[RinneItachi]

Lol, you're so mad about this for no reason. Your entire argument extends to relying on vague, debatable implications, unreliable statements, or, in this case, nitpicking words while ignoring the actual context of them, while insulting anyone who disagrees.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Lol, you're so mad about this for no reason. Your entire argument extends to relying on vague, debatable implications, unreliable statements, or, in this case, nitpicking words while ignoring the actual context of them, while insulting anyone who disagrees.

I'm not mad

I'm just disappointed that this seems to be such a one sided debate. I can't even get a single scan out of you. Lol

If we took a poll on who brought forth the most evidence and logic in this scenario, then it would be pretty embarrassing for you.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

It just looks like a slap fight to me in general, to be honest.

That being said, man, this chapter. I hope 67 doesn't **** up the landing that 66 managed to stick. This was so hype actually reading through it.

Also, if these chapters get everyone thrown back to 3-B or even 3-C, I'm going to laugh.

 

[RinneItachi]

Literally what anyone who denies their own anger would say.

Typical.

Believe what you wish to. It's what you've been doing this entire time.

 

[RinneItachi]

It just looks like a slap fight to me in general, to be honest.

That being said, man, this chapter. I hope 67 doesn't **** up the landing that 66 managed to stick. This was so hype actually reading through it.

Also, if these chapters get everyone thrown back to 3-B or even 3-C, I'm going to laugh.

Just wait for every non-Saiyan Z Fighter to be planet level.