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So it is literally Super Saiyan 4 "returning"
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Dragon Ball Daima Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ednaxel2
- Start date
So it is literally Super Saiyan 4 "returning"
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Watch it they make ssj4 stronger than ultra instinct
NishizumiShiho
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I will off myself bruh
NishizumiShiho
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I wonder if BoG SSG Goku can one shot Third Eyes Gomah?
ShakeResounding
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Canon SSJ4 before GTA 6. Crazy.
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Yeah, ig thats why I dropped, I mean, the first episode hyped me and all, but the second and third... but I think I will give another try because if the fights are somewhat decent then whatever lol, but yeah it doesnt really feels like "dragon ball"
oh ho, this makes sense, I can see it
TegamiBachi25
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So how strong Gomah or what hax does he seem to have so far beyond depowering Goku back to base form?
Has anybody also made a sandbox with Daima Vegeta so far?
Has anybody also made a sandbox with Daima Vegeta so far?
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Gomah has Telekinesis, seemingly Earth Manipulation, Size Manipulation, (made himself titanic size), a form of regeneration(?), continual power growth, and energy projection for projectiles, barriers, and aura. Alongside his containment field and form reduction.
Prior to gaining the Third Eye he has a form of Clairvoyance with his room, claims to be able to give youth (likely through the Year/Life sucking machines we see are used to punish impoverished Demons), can fly, and was said to be stronger than Arinsu thought he was.
That’s really it. He doesn’t do anything particularly mind blowing outside of the field and form null.
Strength wise he’s vaguely above SSJ3 Mini Goku and multiple fighters on that level, and nebulously stronger than Buu. Which is a bit hard to quantify, but tier wise the standard Solar System-Multi Solar System range.
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Man, I can’t believe this actually happened. First Broly and Gogeta became canon, and now Super Saiyan 4 has officially joined it as well. It’s like Toriyama took all the parts of Toei Dragon Ball the fans loved the most and put it into the main canon. Shows even with his flaws with forgetting parts of his story, he knows what the fans want.
This battle also made me realize how OP Dabura would’ve been if he’d kept the Third Eye. If Gomah, a weaker fighter who didn’t appear to have any remarkable hand-to-hand combat skills and relied on his magic, could push the Z Fighters this far, imagine what Dabura could’ve done with it. Granted he had a power boost from Babidi, but I still think the boost from the Third Eye would’ve been even greater for him. Maybe he should’ve put more effort into trying to find it again.
This battle also made me realize how OP Dabura would’ve been if he’d kept the Third Eye. If Gomah, a weaker fighter who didn’t appear to have any remarkable hand-to-hand combat skills and relied on his magic, could push the Z Fighters this far, imagine what Dabura could’ve done with it. Granted he had a power boost from Babidi, but I still think the boost from the Third Eye would’ve been even greater for him. Maybe he should’ve put more effort into trying to find it again.
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Theory crafting time!
So from DBS:SH and DB
we knew that powerful Namekians (and the Dragon Balls by extension) can do these two things.
From the SS4 transformation cut scene we can also see that. Goku grows his tail back, so the tail and by extension the power of the Oozaru is still essential to this form.
Interestingly, one of the guidebook says that SS3 draws out every bit of power from a Saiyan's blood, meaning Goku's "potential" is already fully unleashed by SS3. So this version of Super Saiyan 4 might be like Goku's "Orange Piccolo" transformation to his "Power Awakened" state, which is Super Saiyan 3.
So from DBS:SH and DB
we knew that powerful Namekians (and the Dragon Balls by extension) can do these two things. - Unlock someone's hidden potential (Gohan and Krillin on Namek, Power Awakened Piccolo in SH)
- Power up someone beyond their hidden potential, or in other words, directly giving them extra power. (Orange Piccolo in SH, Neva buffing his Tamagamis (do they even have a hidden potential? They're kinda like robots))
From the SS4 transformation cut scene we can also see that. Goku grows his tail back, so the tail and by extension the power of the Oozaru is still essential to this form.
Interestingly, one of the guidebook says that SS3 draws out every bit of power from a Saiyan's blood, meaning Goku's "potential" is already fully unleashed by SS3. So this version of Super Saiyan 4 might be like Goku's "Orange Piccolo" transformation to his "Power Awakened" state, which is Super Saiyan 3.
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Super Saiyan 4 is a greater potential unlock than SSJ3 according to the GT Perfect Files, so that would fit.Theory crafting time!
So from DBS:SH and DB
- Unlock someone's hidden potential (Gohan and Krillin on Namek, Power Awakened Piccolo in SH)
- Power up someone beyond their hidden potential, or in other words, directly giving them extra power. (Orange Piccolo in SH, Neva buffing his Tamagamis (do they even have a hidden potential? They're kinda like robots))
From the SS4 transformation cut scene we can also see that. Goku grows his tail back, so the tail and by extension the power of the Oozaru is still essential to this form.
Interestingly, one of the guidebook says that SS3 draws out every bit of power from a Saiyan's blood, meaning Goku's "potential" is already fully unleashed by SS3. So this version of Super Saiyan 4 might be like Goku's "Orange Piccolo" transformation to his "Power Awakened" state, which is Super Saiyan 3.
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we need canonical janemba now
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A Canon Janemba that is the culmination of every evil that has ever existed across all universes throughout all of time
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So of course canon SSJ4 is the main thing of this episode and really Daima as a whole but there some more interesting things to talk about.
Gomah has an ability that forced Goku to revert back through each form down to base one by one. This is most likely a form of power nullification as Gomah doesn't seem to get any stronger.
Demon Realm Porunga is the FIRST wish dragon to ever "fight" someone in Dragon Ball history. The only time a dragon has been attacked was when King Piccolo killed Shenron, who didn't do anything to stop it. Demon Realm Porunga treated giant Evil Eye Gomah like he was random fodder. This confirms that the dragons can actually fight people surprisingly. In which case, it makes me wonder how strong Super Shenron is outside of wish granting.
This also kind of confirms that the whole rule about Shenron not being able to do anything beyond Kami's power isn't necessarily a universal rule or may have just been retconned, cause needless to say Neva could not have done that.
Gomah has an ability that forced Goku to revert back through each form down to base one by one. This is most likely a form of power nullification as Gomah doesn't seem to get any stronger.
Demon Realm Porunga is the FIRST wish dragon to ever "fight" someone in Dragon Ball history. The only time a dragon has been attacked was when King Piccolo killed Shenron, who didn't do anything to stop it. Demon Realm Porunga treated giant Evil Eye Gomah like he was random fodder. This confirms that the dragons can actually fight people surprisingly. In which case, it makes me wonder how strong Super Shenron is outside of wish granting.
This also kind of confirms that the whole rule about Shenron not being able to do anything beyond Kami's power isn't necessarily a universal rule or may have just been retconned, cause needless to say Neva could not have done that.
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Instead of being a literal machine like in GT, they could give janemba a better origin, like saying that the cosmic order or something like that was affected during Goku's fight against Beerus, or Gogeta's fight against Broly. (since it's the fights that seem to have affected the cosmology as a whole the most, apparently) or simply using the machine thing but in a more intelligent way in the makai itselfA Canon Janemba that is the culmination of every evil that has ever existed across all universes throughout all of time
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True
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There was no retcon, it just means Neva's overall magical power is that high, we literally saw him casually give Goku a transformation that overpowered gomah until the eye adapted again
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I thought that was implied to have been retconned with what Shenron gave to Piccolo in Super Hero, an power upgrade that surpasses anything Kami could've realistically done in any capacity.
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I hope there is an entire saga explaining about hell, which is the only place in the afterlife that is less explored and does not have a specific size.
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Isn't the current shenron from dende? Also i believe the limitations only affect when a wish is made to do things like kill someone stronger than the person or so, we've seen the dragons affect people stronger than the creator with several other wishes
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I mean... not much of a difference there, Kami was prob stronger than Dende anyway... even if not, Orange Piccolo is like... so far above Dende anyway
The limitation said is "i can't do things beyond my creator's power"... which, i mean... Orange Piccolo definitely is
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Drawing out someone's potential is an ability that has nothing to do with strength. Old Kai isn't Ultimate Gohan level, same with Elder Guru.
Mfers grasping for straws trying to create problems were there's not.
Shenron had just been upgraded to unlock potential when he did it to Piccolo.
Mfers grasping for straws trying to create problems were there's not.
Shenron had just been upgraded to unlock potential when he did it to Piccolo.
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The Orange form wasn't in his potential, it was a gift. That's what Omega's talking about
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Orange isn't just a potential unlock, it's a direct power up stacked on top of his unlocked potential, not far off from Granolah's wish just without the sacrifice.
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I think the theory with Orange is that once Dende upgrades Shenron, it truly becomes "Dende's" dragon, and Orange is just Kami's magic/power that powers the Dragon Balls returning to Piccolo (who has Kami)
Though that doesn't explain why the power up is, absolutely monstrous.
Do we have any indication that Orange utilizes godly ki in some way?
Though that doesn't explain why the power up is, absolutely monstrous.
Do we have any indication that Orange utilizes godly ki in some way?
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I mean... neither does the statement as Shenlong says it, all he says is "i can't do stuff above my creator", which is vague
Plus... Orange Piccolo is not a potential unlock, Shenlong says it is an "extra" he gave, aka, separated from the Potential Unlock that made Piccolo Yellow, all we can get from that is that Shenlong somehow created a stronger power than his creator... which is now consistent with the Red Porunga in Daima, as Neva was terrified of the giants in that island, and the Third Eye should be >> to them as it gives "absolute power" in the Demon Realm
also... why bring up Elder Kai and Guru? they have no restrictions like Shenlong as far as we know
as i said above, that is not what Orange Piccolo is, that was an "extra" Shenlong put in after doing the Potential Unlock
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Which by the way Shenlong shouldn't be able to just give people extra things apart from their wishes so that is something to look into as well.
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Shenlong might be able to do whatever the hell he wants as long as the main wish is also fulfilled?
He revived Frieza in meat chunks when he can restore vaporized peeps with their body intact and healthy.
Not the first time he bent the rules either (he didn't give Gomah extra wishes because he's a newcomer lol.)
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Frieza was reduced to atoms
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nah he wasn't, small black chunks can be seen falling after Trunks finishes killing him
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And ultimate Gohan is far above old Kai, what's your point?
Says who? When did boosting someone magically care about the PL difference between the caster and the receiver?
thetechmaster36
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I don't think that's necessarily true, because it's not really implied that Neva couldn't have done what Porunga did to Gomah, it's just that Neva doesn't really give a shit and watches the fights for the most part. Lest we forget, he's the one who created the Tamagamis, whom are said to be so powerful that Dabura couldn't even beat them.
Now, if you were referring to physical capabilities, then you would have a point; Neva is visibly decrepit and shows no semblance of being a physical fighter whatsoever. But his magical capabilities seem to easily dwarf Gomah's if Porunga was able to casually flick a highly-adapted Third Eye Gomah away like a fly. As the creator of the Demon Realm Dragon Balls, and therefore the Demon Realm Porunga, Neva would have to possess comparable prowess to Porunga until / unless we are told that that aspect of dragon creation is being retconned.
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Old Kai doesn't have the restriction we are talking to being if, i am the one who asks: what is your point?
cause Shenlong is said to not be able to do things beyond their creator's power?... have you kept up with the point to begin with?
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We know why he gave it, though.
Originally, the Dragon Balls the Namekians made were to be used to reward their pure hearted, powerful warriors.
Shenron was just operating on his original created intention built into Namekians long ago (as if you recall, Kami only made them out a sense of physiological need and familiarity, like he was "supposed" to have done this, as he did not recall his original culture at all.)
Why that reward was so potent is a different question, but given that the Warrior Clan's power almost always exceeded the Dragon Clan's, the only clan CAPABLE of making Dragon Balls, it only makes sense that it COULD make it so, otherwise there would have been NO POINT in making them for that purpose (as then the Dragon could not Reward the Warrior Namekians).
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