Nullflowerblush
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"Goku is finally starting to reveal his full power!"
already used Blue against the Trio of Danger
already used Blue against the Trio of Danger
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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SSJB shouldn't have been used until the first encounter with Jiren honestly
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yea it kinda was removed unfairly, akm shouldve just made another thread downgrading it like anyone else would
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Right it was handled so poorly and if we were to do anything remotely similar it would be a problem
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Whether you agree or disagree with the change proposed by that thread, you cannot deny that AKM handled that poorly
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Do we have a reliable and comprehensive 3-A scaling blog?
We have those for manga and anime scaling or does the fact everyone is 3-A until they just jump to Low 2-C make it pointless?
End of BoG Base Goku >1 ( one representing the AP needed to bust the entirety of U7)
U6 saga SSB Kaioken 10> 25,000
Hit rematch SSB goku > 25,000
ToP SSB KK 20 > 500,000
Post UI 1 Base Goku > 50 ( matched SS2 Caulifla before she amped herself with AD when he had previously fought her with SS2)
Post UI 1 SS2 Goku after AD > 25,000 ( outperformed his initial ToP Blue vs Controled Kale as he couldn’t even budge berserk with SSB Kamehameha earlier)
Post UI 1 SSG > 50,000 ( Instantly overpowered Kale and Cauliflas Combined ki blasts with his own, said ki blasts one shot SS2 Caulifla and Made Controlled Kale Heavily struggle trying to deflect it.)
Post U1 SSB > 2,500,000 ( SSGSSis literally the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God therefore 50x multiplier)
Post U1 SSB KK 20 > 50,000,000
Post UI2 SSB = Low 2-C the 3-A scale breaks here.
We have those for manga and anime scaling or does the fact everyone is 3-A until they just jump to Low 2-C make it pointless?
End of BoG Base Goku >1 ( one representing the AP needed to bust the entirety of U7)
U6 saga SSB Kaioken 10> 25,000
Hit rematch SSB goku > 25,000
ToP SSB KK 20 > 500,000
Post UI 1 Base Goku > 50 ( matched SS2 Caulifla before she amped herself with AD when he had previously fought her with SS2)
Post UI 1 SS2 Goku after AD > 25,000 ( outperformed his initial ToP Blue vs Controled Kale as he couldn’t even budge berserk with SSB Kamehameha earlier)
Post UI 1 SSG > 50,000 ( Instantly overpowered Kale and Cauliflas Combined ki blasts with his own, said ki blasts one shot SS2 Caulifla and Made Controlled Kale Heavily struggle trying to deflect it.)
Post U1 SSB > 2,500,000 ( SSGSSis literally the Super Saiyan form of Super Saiyan God therefore 50x multiplier)
Post U1 SSB KK 20 > 50,000,000
Post UI2 SSB = Low 2-C the 3-A scale breaks here.
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He most likely has been, but I doubt anything will happen regardless.
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There was way too many people calling him out for that to not be noticed but shit ain't gonna happen
BlastX
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Hey considering the Kamehameha his 2x your normal AP (as stated in the 3-A AP Blog for DBS) shouldn't anyone of the Half 2-C like Gogeta jump to 2-C with it? Since you just need to twice as strong to Jump from Half 2-C to 2-C? Or is there some ridiculous counterpoint to it?
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Shitty site standards saying multipliers doesn't work in tier 2.
You can be infinitely stronger than Low 2-C but still remain in Low 2-C
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Here lies the problem
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Actually I went through the blog, the reason the kamehameha is 2x in it is because while Beerus could nullify the first energy ball created by both of them, he found himself unable to easily nullify Gokus Kamehameha as a Super Saiyan, meaning that by itself, it was stronger than their combined energy earlier, so the next energy ball would be twice as strong as it was created by two powers of equal AP clashing.
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But then we run into problems when we have two characters combined and having a 2-C feat and trying to find out what their individual yields would be.
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2-C while remaining below baseline
Isn't it there are characters like this?
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Beerus and Champa were the first examples I ever saw in my life.
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Also regarding the 2-C thread the main reason it didn’t go through was because of these arguments
the main counters people brought up
Th three lines of arguments were addressed but not in a comprehensible manner, and spread out over a 1000 post thread
In reality there were plenty of solid debunks for each counter arguments against the 2-C upgrade.
> Gods have ki control
Gods are prohibited from fighting under any circumstances, it’s deemed taboo in-universe because the destruction will inevitably result in 2 universes being destroyed. this by itself already implies that regardless of what they do the result is always going to be two universes getting destroyed.
Furthermore the one time we see a GoD fighting inside the normal universes, Goku has to actively nullify the Destrictive Capacity of the attacks so that they don’t destroy the universe further suggesting a lack of ki control from GoDs even at much much lower levels of power
> the arena wasn’t destroyed, it doesn’t make sense for GoDs to be going all out and not destroy the arena when much weaker characters could.
The arena was only destroyed overtime, and endured constant damage, by the point any one character is destroying substantial chunks of Katchin the three GoDs have already fought on it, 80 fighters had been spamming thousands of ki blasts for prolonged periods of time, it becomes highly likely the arena grew weaker so that non GoD level characters could damage it, and though the GP did state after the three GoD fight that he found which areas of the arena needed improvement, the ones who actually patched up the destruction left by the GoDs were the GoDs themselves, making it unlikely they made a proper reparation of the arena beyond patching up the holes they left on it
> But Champa and Beerus were bleeding and getting bruised during their second fight, unless GoDs get damaged like that they can’t be going all out
Thats the weakest of all arguments and it becomes absurd because there are a metric fuckton on of instances of characters getting their asses handed to them completely with only a little dust on their clothes to show for it.
Just look at the broly movie.
Nevermind the GoDs in the tourney only actually clashed with ki attacks so they never took any direct damage themselves.
And the first fight between Beerus and Champa didn’t leave them with any bruises either but it was stopped all the same because it was going to destroy two universes.
Really, if the thread is remade with appropiate scans I’m certain most people will agree to the 2-C upgrade.
the main counters people brought up
Th three lines of arguments were addressed but not in a comprehensible manner, and spread out over a 1000 post thread
In reality there were plenty of solid debunks for each counter arguments against the 2-C upgrade.
> Gods have ki control
Gods are prohibited from fighting under any circumstances, it’s deemed taboo in-universe because the destruction will inevitably result in 2 universes being destroyed. this by itself already implies that regardless of what they do the result is always going to be two universes getting destroyed.
Furthermore the one time we see a GoD fighting inside the normal universes, Goku has to actively nullify the Destrictive Capacity of the attacks so that they don’t destroy the universe further suggesting a lack of ki control from GoDs even at much much lower levels of power
> the arena wasn’t destroyed, it doesn’t make sense for GoDs to be going all out and not destroy the arena when much weaker characters could.
The arena was only destroyed overtime, and endured constant damage, by the point any one character is destroying substantial chunks of Katchin the three GoDs have already fought on it, 80 fighters had been spamming thousands of ki blasts for prolonged periods of time, it becomes highly likely the arena grew weaker so that non GoD level characters could damage it, and though the GP did state after the three GoD fight that he found which areas of the arena needed improvement, the ones who actually patched up the destruction left by the GoDs were the GoDs themselves, making it unlikely they made a proper reparation of the arena beyond patching up the holes they left on it
> But Champa and Beerus were bleeding and getting bruised during their second fight, unless GoDs get damaged like that they can’t be going all out
Thats the weakest of all arguments and it becomes absurd because there are a metric fuckton on of instances of characters getting their asses handed to them completely with only a little dust on their clothes to show for it.
Just look at the broly movie.
Nevermind the GoDs in the tourney only actually clashed with ki attacks so they never took any direct damage themselves.
And the first fight between Beerus and Champa didn’t leave them with any bruises either but it was stopped all the same because it was going to destroy two universes.
Really, if the thread is remade with appropiate scans I’m certain most people will agree to the 2-C upgrade.
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It isn't about most people agreeing it's a about agreement of a few.
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I really don’t like this kind of defeatist mentality.
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You can try after defeat of almost 9 page of agreement in a few comments. We'll support you
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Someone is definitely planning on remaking the thread given the amount of us that were pressed about the change getting unrightfully reverted. We're all just lazy. Regular VSBW occurrence
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Those were the points
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they then got spread out like buckshot over 50 yardsThose were the points
First things first, all possible queries and counter-arguments should be tackled in the OP itself I'd reckon.
EVERY. LAST. ONE OF THEM. Before we go towards remaking it again. It should be thorough and concise with every bit of supporting evidence you can find under the franchise.
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I understand how weird and "fanfictiony" it would feel, but it would make sense. SSJB is explicitly just Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, as its original name was. SSJG is technically a transformation, but the transformation just consists of a Saiyan having and using God Ki. That's basically what it is, just a Saiyan with God Ki. If a Saiyan combines God Ki and a Super Saiyan form, that makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, or rather, SSJB. So a Saiyan being able to use Super Saiyan 3 on top of God Ki doesn't sound unreasonable, though it'd certainly feel like fanservice, completely unnecessary, and also extremely unoriginal.
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> Gods have ki control
God's of destruction do have Ki control. Beerus makes that obvious when he point's out that Toppo is still a novice in his control over Hakai. Beerus just didn't care about damaging the universe when he was fighting Goku. This whole argument about god's not being able to control their power is stupid. Beerus has fought Goku dressed as Monaka, fought a random Unicorn alien thing before he destroyed his planet, and perfectly destroyed an alien planet in half because he didn't like the food they served him. Beerus is easily capable of controlling his power when he needs to.
"Gods are prohibited from fighting under any circumstances, it’s deemed taboo in-universe because the destruction will inevitably result in 2 universes being destroyed. this by itself already implies that regardless of what they do the result is always going to be two universes getting destroyed."
Does it also imply that two gods of destruction would destroy their universes even if they were using 5 percent of their full strength? Does it imply that the amount of strength they use is irrelevant?
> the arena wasn’t destroyed, it doesn’t make sense for GoDs to be going all out and not destroy the arena when much weaker characters could.
The amount of time spent destroying the arena is completely irrelevant. I can run a 100 meter run it wouldn't be as fast as Usain Bolt but the result is the same a 100 meter run was done. The entire point of the fight between the 3 gods of destructions was to test the arena and the damage they did was recreated by much weaker characters. 80 fighters but most aren't even close to blue level. Jiren himself never really damaged the stage.
"the GP did state after the three GoD fight that he found which areas of the arena needed improvement, the ones who actually patched up the destruction left by the GoDs were the GoDs themselves, making it unlikely they made a proper reparation of the arena beyond patching up the holes they left on it"
This has no basis.
> But Champa and Beerus were bleeding and getting bruised during their second fight, unless GoDs get damaged like that they can’t be going all out
I agree it is the weakest of the arguments but you can't ignore that none of the gods of destruction seem fazed afterwards. There is also no proof that they were going all out. The entire purpose of the fight was to test the arena not to figure out who was stronger. The fact that they never used hakai attack and only normal ki attacks actually supports the fact they were holding back so I don't get your point.
Moving on, the reasoning that shaking the WoV makes you superior to the 3 gods of destruction is bad. You have to assume that gods of destructions can not hold back, can not control their power, and would cause destruction no matter how much strength they use just from interacting. With that reasoning GoD Toppo is stronger than all three as he not only destroyed the stage he caused the most damage out of everyone to it and to the WoV. Vegeta would instantly scale as well as he beat Toppo and so would Kefla as she almost beat a stronger UIO than the one that shaked the WoV.
Also, UIO has several statements that he's below the realm of god's of destruction. UIO 2 has the narrator state that he's still trying to approach the "realm of the gods" after his fight with Kefla. UIO 3 wasn't at that level and Vegeta made an entire speech to Belmond and yelled at Goku to in his words "Trespass into the domain of the Gods and defeat Jiren" cementing the fact that he was still inferior to the gods of destruction as UIO 3. It was only until he turned Mui that he reached that level.
Even the magazine that people use to try to prove that UIO 3(Herms says it was actually talking about MUI) was becoming stronger than Beerus supports the fact that UIO was not at that level. That magazine is still garbage tho because it has Beerus dialogue that never appeared in the show. Plus manga scaling.
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I thought we already had one?
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Nothing beyond the initial BoG 3-A explanation featured in the DB verse page afaik.
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Does anyone have or can make a good render of base Gohan in Super Hero?
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Going twice
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Anyone? I've made all relevant updates I just wanna add some renders
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Whis described the destruction of the universe due to moreso the power level SSJG reached being unprecedented, and even in that fight Beerus definitely shows Ki control.
Wouldn’t the stage’s surface also have to be considered bigger than multiple universes for the Ki control point to be valid?
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