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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

BOEGVELD said:
The beginning of a new chapter is still the next page. New chapter ≠ time passing. Chapters often end on a cliffhanger and Goku is still in the same position looking down on them.

I'm not gonna argue whether it makes sense or not because that's pretty much subjective and irrelevant. But we see Goku split a fusion onscreen, and that's all that really matters.
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no we don't he punches the fusion then they get knocked out, then after that they unfuse, it's most likely just they got knocked out of their fusion just like how someone can be knocked out of their transformation.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
no we don't he punches the fusion then they get knocked out, then after that they unfuse, it's most likely just they got knocked out of their fusion just like how someone can be knocked out of their transformation.
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Knocking someone out of their fusion IS Power Nullification...
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
no it's not, they defused after getting knocked out, getting knocked out is not power null, or do you wanna give everyone who knocked vegeta out of super saiyan power null?
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Knocking someone out isn't, knocking someone out of fusion is. He's literally defusing them.

Don't strawman. A transformation like SSJ is not comparable to a fusion. You can knock someone out of a transformation with AP, but you cannot knock someone out of their fusion with AP. Unless there's evidence suggesting otherwise, of course, but there isn't.
 
BOEGVELD said:
Knocking someone out isn't, knocking someone out of fusion is. He's literally defusing them.

Don't strawman. A transformation like SSJ is not comparable to a fusion. You can knock someone out of a transformation with AP, but you cannot knock someone out of their fusion with AP. Unless there's evidence suggesting otherwise, of course, but there isn't.
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Goku knocked the fusion out, but they only defused after they passed out, so they didn't defuse because of a special ability from goku's punch, they did because they were knocked unconscious, if that was legit power null then it would make forced spirit fission redundant.
 
???

Goku clearly just beat their asses so hard that they defused, that's just common sense for anyone who read the chapters. And no, Goku for some reason having power null in your words not making sense due to it being the focus of Vegeta's new ability isn't subjective and irrelevant, it's a very rational claim looking at it from a narrative standpoint. If you think narrative implications are irrelevant, you don't know how debates work. Vegeta's literal new power in the Moro arc is Forced Spirit Fission, which acts as both an absorption ability and more importantly power nullification. Goku also having power nullification for no logical or explained reason which is also never explored at all before or after makes 0 sense and invalidates the claim by itself. Even if we could assume it was power null, it'd be a major outlier considering that it's never mentioned at any point and was only demonstrated once. Not to mention that I'm quite sure Roshi or whoever it was with Goku there didn't bring it up at all.

Just cause there's no evidence directly claiming something isn't true doesn't mean it can't be argued that it isn't true. Are you also gonna argue that GoD Toppo can one-shot Full Power Jiren?
 
Looks like next DB Heroes is gonna be Gogeta vs SSR3 Goku Black.

That probably means Black defeated both UI Goku and BlueBlack Vegeta.
 
ZERO7772 said:
Looks like next DB Heroes is gonna be Gogeta vs SSR3 Goku Black.

That probably means Black defeated both UI Goku and BlueBlack Vegeta.
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Oh wow so gogeta blue>ui goku≥ss masked warrior>vegeto blue? I hate heroes and I'm glad its non canon, they don't like vegito for some reason
 
Gogeta probably won't just be fighting Crimson, since Broly and Majin Omega Shenron (yes, seriously) are also going to be there (unless the anime cuts their appearance out).
 
TheBestBoi said:
did that happen in the arcade? cus im pretty sure the anime cut android 17 vs super 17
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It's going to be happening in the next arcade mission, which the upcoming anime episode will be adapting. (Yes, they did omit the 17 fights, as well as both Gohan vs. Bojack fights)

I wouldn't be surprised if Omega gets the cut, but I'm expecting them to retain Broly given how much they adore the character.
 
RinneItachi said:
Goku clearly just beat their asses so hard that they defused, that's just common sense for anyone who read the chapters.
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AP doesn't allow you to nullify hax. That's common sense. Even in Dragon Ball massive AP advantages have not shown to cause characters to defuse.
RinneItachi said:
And no, Goku for some reason having power null in your words not making sense due to it being the focus of Vegeta's new ability isn't subjective and irrelevant, it's a very rational claim looking at it from a narrative standpoint. If you think narrative implications are irrelevant, you don't know how debates work. Vegeta's literal new power in the Moro arc is Forced Spirit Fission, which acts as both an absorption ability and more importantly power nullification.
Click to expand...
You can say it's a rational claim, but that is, again, subjective and irrelevant. You're disregarding a feat based on your own opinion on the matter. That's not a valid argument.
RinneItachi said:
Goku also having power nullification for no logical or explained reason which is also never explored at all before or after makes 0 sense and invalidates the claim by itself. Even if we could assume it was power null, it'd be a major outlier considering that it's never mentioned at any point and was only demonstrated once. Not to mention that I'm quite sure Roshi or whoever it was with Goku there didn't bring it up at all.
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It doesn't. There doesn't have to be a logical reason or explanation for Goku to have Power Nullificiation. If he's shown to use it, he has it. Feats also don't have to be repeated before they can be considered valid; it only being shown once doesn't make it an outlier.
RinneItachi said:
Just cause there's no evidence directly claiming something isn't true doesn't mean it can't be argued that it isn't true. Are you also gonna argue that GoD Toppo can one-shot Full Power Jiren?
Click to expand...
Arguing scaling is very, very different from arguing an onscreen feat... though there is evidence for FP Jiren > GOD Toppo, so I don't know why you brought up this example.
 
BOEGVELD said:
AP doesn't allow you to nullify hax. That's common sense. Even in Dragon Ball massive AP advantages have not shown to cause characters to defuse.

You can say it's a rational claim, but that is, again, subjective and irrelevant. You're disregarding a feat based on your own opinion on the matter. That's not a valid argument.

It doesn't. There doesn't have to be a logical reason or explanation for Goku to have Power Nullificiation. If he's shown to use it, he has it. Feats also don't have to be repeated before they can be considered valid; it only being shown once doesn't make it an outlier.

Arguing scaling is very, very different from arguing an onscreen feat... though there is evidence for FP Jiren > GOD Toppo, so I don't know why you brought up this example.
Click to expand...
Yikes, you're still arguing?

What's common sense is that Goku clearly doesn't have power null.

So you disregard everything I say and just claim I'm spouting irrelevant unobjective opinions without any reasoning other than "Because I say so"? If anything, the one basing their views on nothing but an opinion is you. Read below.

The point isn't that it's unexplained, it's that it's never mentioned or shown elsewhere and has no basis other than an extremely vague feat that you're only personally interpreting as power null. Indeed, feats don't need to be numerous to be validated, but this is an instance where Goku showcases what you claim is power null, but doesn't use it and never mentions it anywhere else in the entire franchise of DB's history, and it also being contradicted by the fact that it's literally Vegeta's new ability in the very same arc you're claiming he uses it in.

You're saying that something can't be debunked without straightforward and concrete evidence, the same argument people use to say that GoD Toppo one-shots Jiren because Jiren never actually showcased EE resistance.
 
Can we get Chou Vegeta an Ultra Ego key already? I wanna make an Ego vs Instinct matchup asap cuz I need to witness some juicy debate that doesn't come from reddit or comicvine.
 
Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Can we get Chou Vegeta an Ultra Ego key already? I wanna make an Ego vs Instinct matchup asap cuz I need to witness some juicy debate that doesn't come from reddit or comicvine.
Click to expand...
UI Goku should destroy, UE vegeta barely got any stronger than SSBE, but I think we should wait a little before we make anything conclusive.
 
SSBE Vegeta was only keeping up with Granolah via superior fighting skills and fleeing. There was clearly a blatant power gap between the two. UE Vegeta made Granolah shit himself just by transforming, charged straight on, Got several heavy blows on Granolah, tanked several blows, and made Granolah attempt to hide. The only reason UE Vegeta ended up getting overpowered was because Granolah got that bullshit, plot-contradicting power boost.
 
ZetaMarishi said:
Then please, I have to hear this. UE Vegeta's honestly done better against Granolah than UI Goku. Granted, that's partially because of other factors, but... UI is a very massive amp.
Click to expand...
Okay so the main idea you guys have is granolah blitzed and one shot UI Goku then Granolah >>> UI Goku. We would assume this without context but this makes a big hole in the scaling for two reasons, 1. Goku and vegeta are portrayed equal in base, and both had similar difficulty against granolah as SSJ 2. SSBE is not nearly a big of a boost as UI sign, let alone perfected UI which is miles above that we know this because Goku and vegeta were equal in the TOP but Sign was more impressive than SSBE, and same with moro arc.
SSBE vegeta was shown relative to granolah, there was a power gap, but vegeta could still react to, keep up with and take blows from granolah at the beggining of the fight and was able to even push him to serious mode as in not casual because granolah was pissed with vegeta, which means that vegeta can keep up with granolah at his best, through a combination of skill and reactive PL. Now lets see the context of why Goku lost, granolah said his UI gets weaker over time which is how granolah was able to reach Goku despite UI being active and that means Goku was off guard and vulnerable which means granolah found an opening with his sharingan and used a pressure point attack to one shot and KO. So Granolah at full power shouldn't scale to UI Goku. Now for how UE Vegeta scales, SSBE Vegeta was comparrable to but weaker than full power granolah but after transforming he casually overpowered and knocked granolah around, which means that the tables turned completely, but granolah could still harm vegeta and keep up with him despite this, but this isn't that big of a boost, vegeta went from a little weaker to a little stronger to eventually comparable, while an amp like UI is much larger, like how sign Goku couldn't even touch 73 moro, but in UI was able to completely stomp. So basically it goes like this Granolah after asspull > UE Vegeta > Granolah > SSBE vegeta >>> SSB Vegeta ~ SSB Goku. And like this, SSBE vegeta << Sign Goku <<< UI Goku. Sorry for the text wall.
 
I wanna know why Granolah's power is considered plot contradicting (bullshit I understand to an extent). Yeah it came from the middle of a fight with no prior build up, but it's not like only saiyans have the privilege to gain power ups in battle.
 
RinneItachi said:
Yikes, you're still arguing?

What's common sense is that Goku clearly doesn't have power null.

So you disregard everything I say and just claim I'm spouting irrelevant unobjective opinions without any reasoning other than "Because I say so"? If anything, the one basing their views on nothing but an opinion is you. Read below.

The point isn't that it's unexplained, it's that it's never mentioned or shown elsewhere and has no basis other than an extremely vague feat that you're only personally interpreting as power null. Indeed, feats don't need to be numerous to be validated, but this is an instance where Goku showcases what you claim is power null, but doesn't use it and never mentions it anywhere else in the entire franchise of DB's history, and it also being contradicted by the fact that it's literally Vegeta's new ability in the very same arc you're claiming he uses it in.

You're saying that something can't be debunked without straightforward and concrete evidence, the same argument people use to say that GoD Toppo one-shots Jiren because Jiren never actually showcased EE resistance.
Click to expand...
Yikes, you're still arguing?

Why would it need to be mentioned or shown again? The feat is very simple and straightforward. Girls fuse > Goku punches fusion > girls defuse.

Vegeta having FSF doesn't "contradict" it. In fact FSF is completely different to what Goku did. Goku unfused a regular fusion while Vegeta can simply take any energy that isn't originally from [insert character].

Anyway, this isn't even a CRT lmao. Let's stop wasting time.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
I wanna know why Granolah's power is considered plot contradicting (bullshit I understand to an extent). Yeah it came from the middle of a fight with no prior build up, but it's not like only saiyans have the privilege to gain power ups in battle.
Click to expand...
The dragon literally ******* said he awakened all of Granolah's potential over his entire life span to make him the strongest. By that info alone he shouldn't be getting anymore powerful outside of becoming a more skilled fighter.
 
Vegeta tells Granolah multiple times that his power is meaningless because he lacks experience. Granolah then says he'll have to make up for that in this fight and uses that to grow stronger. I don't see how that doesn't make sense.
 
True, but the dragon never said anything about including power enhancing forms. The two red eyed form is likely the Cerealiens equivalent of SSJ. It would be like unlocking all of Goku's potential, but then he can just use the ssj forms to enhance his already maxed out power.

Besides we know that one can still achieve even greater power even after having all of their potential unlocked and boosted (Gohan).
 
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