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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

RedReaper616 said:
Omega’s thread means GT Goku solos all of DBS in Base. Wild.
Click to expand...
Depending on how that other thread goes, Hit could end up having 5D Time hax combined with his durability negation hax. Hit has 118 sextillion to 9.46 nonillion c speed. So my KING Hit will protect ALL OF SUPER from the terrors of the Grand Tour.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Depending on how that other thread goes, Hit could end up having 5D Time hax combined with his durability negation hax. Hit has 118 sextillion to 9.46 nonillion c speed. So my KING Hit will protect ALL OF SUPER from the terrors of the Grand Tour.
Click to expand...
Speed wise I thought Gt scaled higher?
 
Huesito88 said:
Speed wise I thought Gt scaled higher?
Click to expand...
His page doesn't link to a speed blog and only scales his base form above the 4.38 quadrillion times FTL feat from the Otherworld Saga in Z. Comparatively DBS has a complete speed blog making use of accepted form multipliers upscaling from a 118 sextillion times FTL feat in BoG, albeit that would probably get nerfed if the Afterlife size is reduced.

So Base BoG Goku is currently sitting around 30 million times faster than Toei Goku after the Cell Saga and GT Goku upscales from that feat. Then SSG is accepted as 160,000x base, Blue should be 1,600,000x base and KKX10 would be 16,000,000x base.

So that equates to what? Hit being over 480 trillion times faster than the feat GT Goku is upscaling from? Unless I've gotten something wrong?
 
CryoTheMayo said:
His page doesn't link to a speed blog and only scales his base form above the 4.38 quadrillion times FTL feat from the Otherworld Saga in Z. Comparatively DBS has a complete speed blog making use of accepted form multipliers upscaling from a 118 sextillion times FTL feat in BoG, albeit that would probably get nerfed if the Afterlife size is reduced.

So Base BoG Goku is currently sitting around 30 million times faster than Toei Goku after the Cell Saga and GT Goku upscales from that feat. Then SSG is accepted as 160,000x base, Blue should be 1,600,000x base and KKX10 would be 16,000,000x base.

So that equates to what? Hit being over 480 trillion times faster than the feat GT Goku is upscaling from? Unless I've gotten something wrong?
Click to expand...
Oh right I forgot we managed to upgrade the BOG feat in size
 
CryoTheMayo said:
Depending on how that other thread goes, Hit could end up having 5D Time hax combined with his durability negation hax. Hit has 118 sextillion to 9.46 nonillion c speed. So my KING Hit will protect ALL OF SUPER from the terrors of the Grand Tour.
Click to expand...
unfortunelly, without the Universal heaven calc......that number will go down significantly regardless of the result
 
I'm guessing that this talk of GT Goku soloing all of Super in base form is from that thread which will remove the composite cosmology thing that Dragon Ball has on here, right? I haven't been active for a few weeks, mainly due to a severe mental depressed mood I was in, so I'm admittedly out of loop with what's been going on lately.
 
Huesito88 said:
Oh right I forgot we managed to upgrade the BOG feat in size
Click to expand...
Yeah well taking a glance the Toei section has a Speed blog that puts Kid Buu at 547.5 quintillion which would be less than 1/200th of Base Goku's speed in Super. Base GT Goku upscales from Kid Buu which would put him around 1/200th of Base DBS Goku. So GT SS3 Goku would only be around 2x faster than Base DBS Goku. Ergo Hit is over 8,000,000x faster than GT SS3 Goku in the Baby Saga.

From there it gets murky because of Super Saiyan 4's multiplier. If we say it's 10x SS3 (4,000x) then Baby Saga SS4 would be 20x faster than DBS Base Goku. His profile then states his SS1 surpassed his SS4 by the Super 17 Saga which would mean he is over 80x faster. So over 1,600x the speed of DBS Base Goku.

So Hit should be around 10,000 times faster than SS4 Goku (Super 17) and I'm too lazy to figure out how much stronger he is by the end of the Shadow Dragons saga.

It seems to me like the GT pages could use a fixup with the scaling and given a stats blog upscaling from the Z anime blog.
 
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The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I'm guessing that this talk of GT Goku soloing all of Super in base form is from that thread which will remove the composite cosmology thing that Dragon Ball has on here, right? I haven't been active for a few weeks, mainly due to a severe mental depressed mood I was in, so I'm admittedly out of loop with what's been going on lately.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately Many Worlds got taken from the cosmology so it's no longer composite. The current thread is about the size of the Afterlife. The current conclusions is that the Toei anime, original manga and DBS Manga could remain 2-C but the DBS Anime has some issues which could downgrade the size of the realm and take 2-C scaling from the anime until the USS.

I believe the Time Room is still accepted as canon to the cosmology so timelines are still Low 1-C. Even if they get removed we will still have Low 1-C Heroes at least.
 
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CryoTheMayo said:
Unfortunately Many Worlds got taken from the cosmology so it's no longer composite. The current thread is about the size of the Afterlife. The current conclusions is that the Toei anime, original manga and DBS Manga could remain 2-C but the DBS Anime has some issues which could downgrade the size of the realm and take 2-C scaling from the anime until the USS.

I believe the Time Room is still accepted as canon to the cosmology so timelines are still Low 1-C. Even if they get removed we will stay have Low 1-C Heroes at least.
Click to expand...
To be clear, all the original information used for the Low 1-C justifications came exclusively from Toei, or was presented in all mediums including Toei.

-Time Room (Toei Anime Exclusive)
-ROSAT statement (All media)
-Bulma statements (DBS Manga Exclusive)

The thread where Low 1-C was accepted only used the first two, while the thread accepting the blog included the last one. In other words, Toei's Low 1-C justifications don't need a re-evaluation since all the original justifications were present in Toei. However, the manga would need a re-evaluation since without the Time Room, the last two justifications may need to be looked at in concert to see if they hold up.

Now's as good as time as any to ask, this might sound like a really dumb question, but is the DBS Anime considered canon to the Manga or Toei?
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I'm guessing that this talk of GT Goku soloing all of Super in base form is from that thread which will remove the composite cosmology thing that Dragon Ball has on here, right? I haven't been active for a few weeks, mainly due to a severe mental depressed mood I was in, so I'm admittedly out of loop with what's been going on lately.
Click to expand...
basically yeah
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
To be clear, all the original information used for the Low 1-C justifications came exclusively from Toei, or was presented in all mediums including Toei.

-Time Room (Toei Anime Exclusive)
-ROSAT statement (All media)
-Bulma statements (DBS Manga Exclusive)

The thread where Low 1-C was accepted only used the first two, while the thread accepting the blog included the last one. In other words, Toei's Low 1-C justifications don't need a re-evaluation since all the original justifications were present in Toei. However, the manga would need a re-evaluation since without the Time Room, the last two justifications may need to be looked at in concert to see if they hold up.

Now's as good as time as any to ask, this might sound like a really dumb question, but is the DBS Anime considered canon to the Manga or Toei?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it is dbz manga
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
Now's as good as time as any to ask, this might sound like a really dumb question, but is the DBS Anime considered canon to the Manga or Toei?
Click to expand...
I believe it is considered a sequel to the manga. It could be worth a shot trying to make it canon to Toei but I don't think it would pass unfortunately.

The saving grace will probably be the HTC and possibly the Neutral Space (which people have recently tried to use to get either 6D Timelines or 5D Hit via Hypertimeline manipulation).

omegabronic said:
unfortunelly, without the Universal heaven calc......that number will go down significantly regardless of the result
Click to expand...
In theory DBS Anime top tiers could upscale from that same feat starting with Beerus and Champa destroying U6 and U7 but we do lack a timeframe for that destruction statement. If we had a timeframe we could at least somewhat salvage the speed ratings.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
His page doesn't link to a speed blog and only scales his base form above the 4.38 quadrillion times FTL feat from the Otherworld Saga in Z. Comparatively DBS has a complete speed blog making use of accepted form multipliers upscaling from a 118 sextillion times FTL feat in BoG, albeit that would probably get nerfed if the Afterlife size is reduced.

So Base BoG Goku is currently sitting around 30 million times faster than Toei Goku after the Cell Saga and GT Goku upscales from that feat. Then SSG is accepted as 160,000x base, Blue should be 1,600,000x base and KKX10 would be 16,000,000x base.

So that equates to what? Hit being over 480 trillion times faster than the feat GT Goku is upscaling from? Unless I've gotten something wrong?
Click to expand...
No, if you check Goku (Toei)‘s page they scale to 10.74 sextillion. It’s only been applied to a couple pages though. (The reason why is because I’m lazy)
 
CryoTheMayo said:
In theory DBS Anime top tiers could upscale from that same feat starting with Beerus and Champa destroying U6 and U7 but we do lack a timeframe for that destruction statement. If we had a timeframe we could at least somewhat salvage the speed ratings.
Click to expand...
DBS anime top tiers already scale from that via World of Void shenanigans (Jiren shaking the World of Void, which 3 Gods of Destruction going all-out couldn't do when 2 were going to destroy 2 universes)
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
No, if you check Goku (Toei)‘s page they scale to 10.74 sextillion. It’s only been applied to a couple pages though. (The reason why is because I’m lazy)
Click to expand...
Man these Toei pages are a mess right now. Okay in that case GT is probably faster than Super and will be way faster if the Afterlife nerf goes through. I'm still betting on my boy Hit in speed equalised matches.

CloverDragon03 said:
DBS anime top tiers already scale from that via World of Void shenanigans (Jiren shaking the World of Void, which 3 Gods of Destruction going all-out couldn't do when 2 were going to destroy 2 universes)
Click to expand...
Yeah but if the Afterlife size is downsized then that feat would also inherently get knocked down wouldn't it? So all of the upscaling would have to be updated to new values which would be significantly lower. I don't believe there is a speed calc using the WoV or Beerus vs Champa right? We just use that for 2-C scaling and all of the speed scaling is via multipliers upscaling from the BoG feat.
 
Huesito88 said:
Yeah your Clover
Click to expand...
You're*
dHXdycv.gif
 
So if the downgrade goes through that means Anime Beerus would only be baseline 2-C (via the statement with Champa)...which would mean if the manga dodges the downgrade...Manga SSG Goku could beat Anime Beerus.

I'm gonna need this result so we can do Battle of Gods 2: Manga vs Anime edition thank you.
 
CryoTheMayo said:
So if the downgrade goes through that means Anime Beerus would only be baseline 2-C (via the statement with Champa)...which would mean if the manga dodges the downgrade...Manga SSG Goku could beat Anime Beerus.

I'm gonna need this result so we can do Battle of Gods 2: Manga vs Anime edition thank you.
Click to expand...
Actually, there is still Beerus and Champa combine force can blow up both U6 and U7 so if we factoring the distance between two universes Beerus would be 1.5 baseline 2-C which is unqualifiable > baseline 2-C but < 3 universes 2-C. Still > GT
 
Vietthai96 said:
Actually, there is still Beerus and Champa combine force can blow up both U6 and U7 so if we factoring the distance between two universes Beerus would be 1.5 baseline 2-C which is unqualifiable > baseline 2-C but < 3 universes 2-C. Still > GT
Click to expand...
I don't think it works like that...
 
Vietthai96 said:
Actually, there is still Beerus and Champa combine force can blow up both U6 and U7 so if we factoring the distance between two universes Beerus would be 1.5 baseline 2-C which is unqualifiable > baseline 2-C but < 3 universes 2-C. Still > GT
Click to expand...
That's not really usable on the wiki though is it? The reason 2-C is considered an infinite gap is because of the unquantifiable distance between universes in the first place. So Beerus and Champa should still only be baseline 2-C, as their statement only refers to destroying 2 universes.

Comparatively if the Manga doesn't get hit with the nerf, SSG Goku will be 2-C via threatening the Afterlife and Living World. Meaning Manga SSG Goku should be as powerful as Anime GoDs.

The only thing that would keep Anime DBS above Manga DBS would be the WoV shaking feat which I believe would be downgraded to 3 Universes which Jiren and UIS Goku would scale above.

If the Spacetime standards revision gets updated then Manga DBS macrocosms would become 7 2-C (AL, LR, Kaioshin, 3 HTCs, Demon Realm) and Anime DBS macrocosms would become 5 2-C (AL, LR, Kaioshin, 1 HTC, Demon Realm), GoD-level would be 10 2-C and Jiren-level would be 15 2-C (EDIT: Correction, It would still be 10 2-C. I misremembered the scaling logic).
 
Last edited:
CryoTheMayo said:
That's not really usable on the wiki though is it? The reason 2-C is considered an infinite gap is because of the unquantifiable distance between universes in the first place. So Beerus and Champa should still only be baseline 2-C, as their statement only refers to destroying 2 universes.

Comparatively if the Manga doesn't get hit with the nerf, SSG Goku will be 2-C via threatening the Afterlife and Living World. Meaning Manga SSG Goku should be as powerful as Anime GoDs.

The only thing that would keep Anime DBS above Manga DBS would be the WoV shaking feat which I believe would be downgraded to 3 Universes which Jiren and UIS Goku would scale above.

If the Spacetime standards revision gets updated then Manga DBS macrocosms would become 7 2-C (AL, LR, Kaioshin, 3 HTCs, Demon Realm) and Anime DBS macrocosms would become 5 2-C (AL, LR, Kaioshin, 1 HTC, Demon Realm), GoD-level would be 10 2-C and Jiren-level would be 15 2-C.
Click to expand...
where would the 5 extra space times come for Jiren-level?
 
omegabronic said:
where would the 5 extra space times come for Jiren-level?
Click to expand...
My bad I was remembering a past revision that I think got rejected or removed at some point. Yeah Jiren's profile states he is 6 2-C because of GoDs clashing threatening 2 Macrocosms and he scales above them.

I'm gonna edit my post to correct that detail, thanks for pointing it out.
 
How to debunk Dragon Ball fans, a guide by Zenkaibattery1

  • Hyperbole- If you can't come up with a good point, say the statements are hyperbole or poetic language because it's dragon ball and it doesnt make sense
  • Outlier- Say the higher end feats are outliers because it has only been done once (if they say "why can't they just scale by being stronger" say it wouldn't make sense)
  • inconsistent- Say the showings/statements/representations are all inconsistent but still choose the lowest end" inconsistency"
  • Out of context- All the feats are out of context, unless it downgrades the verse
Bonus: Say "my verse doesnt get the same supposedly "good" treatement like Dragon Ball does and it isn't fair"= profit for your verse
 
Last edited:
Zenkaibattery1 said:
How to debunk Dragon Ball fans, a guide by Zenkaibattery1

  • Hyperbole- If you can't come up with a good point, say the statements are hyperbole or poetic language because it's dragon ball and it doesnt make sense
  • Outlier- Say the higher end feats are outliers because it has only been done once (if they say "why can't they just scale by being stronger" say it wouldn't make sense)
  • inconsistent- Say the showings/statements/representations are all inconsistent but still choose the lowest end" inconsistency"
  • Out of context- All the feats are out of context, unless it downgrades the verse
Bonus: Say "my verse doesnt get the same supposedly "good" treatement like Dragon Ball does and it isn't fair= profit for your verse
Click to expand...
Nice poetry, did your outliers buy it? 😹
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
How to debunk Dragon Ball fans, a guide by Zenkaibattery1

  • Hyperbole- If you can't come up with a good point, say the statements are hyperbole or poetic language because it's dragon ball and it doesnt make sense
  • Outlier- Say the higher end feats are outliers because it has only been done once (if they say "why can't they just scale by being stronger" say it wouldn't make sense)
  • inconsistent- Say the showings/statements/representations are all inconsistent but still choose the lowest end" inconsistency"
  • Out of context- All the feats are out of context, unless it downgrades the verse
Click to expand...
That's just Saint Seiya....
 
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