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Dragon Ball Super Anime - Zeno and Zamasu Ability

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Reiner said:
Conceptual one has been rejected far before when I was in the thread. OP has taken it back and only want the abstract existence to be evaluated.
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Can you elaborate please?
Planck69 said:
Yeah, regardless of whether or not it "fits", that's not grounds to reject a CRT.
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Okay.
 
Antvasima said:
Can you elaborate please?
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Well, OP want to upgrade Zamasu and Zeno to have Conceptual Manipulation, however i already explained it in some of my early comments that why both of them do not have that power, so he taken it back, right now we only evaluate Infinite Zamasu's Abstract Existence rating, which you can see my explanations in my comments
 
Antvasima said:
Can you elaborate please?
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Vietthai96 said:
Well, OP want to upgrade Zamasu and Zeno to have Conceptual Manipulation, however i already explained it in some of my early comments that why both of them do not have that power, so he taken it back, right now we only evaluate Infinite Zamasu's Abstract Existence rating, which you can see my explanations in my comments
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Basically, OP took it back because of the reasons @Vietthai96 explained. Abstract existence is all need to be evaluated which has been accepted already ig?
 
Vietthai96 said:
Anyway, the argument is, right now AE1 rating of Infinite Zamasu is only Possibly, however with the new updated evidences and arguments, we remove the Possibly rating, update IZ AE1's justification since it is very outdated, also Zeno's EE justification if this CRT get accepted

Game Zamasu also get updated
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Okay. That is probably fine then, but can you explain the new evidence and arguments in an easy to understand manner please?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. That is probably fine then, but can you explain the new evidence and arguments in an easy to understand manner please?
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Vietthai96 said:
It was explained in my comment
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Vietthai96 said:
Zamasu being a Will is stated in Toei Timeline, translated by Herm, a will is already abstract. Artbook however directly stated he become Ideas itself via the raw japanese, it is explained in my comment. Gowasu also stated him became Order and Justice itself, which clearly refering him become something abstract (Justice and Order is abstraction), it is also in line with him being a non-physical existence (cast aside his body, remain, divine vessel, etc...) which support him being abstract.

And while most of the time we don't use other dub or translations, but in this situation, all those translation into other language such as the one in OP all pointed at the same thing which is Infinite Zamasu being abstract being, order and justice itself, thus heavily support the validity of the AE1 rating

Lastly, while we can't really backscale game verse to canon/anime verse, game verse itself also directly stated the same thing. So i think, there is no doubt about Infinite Zamasu being AE1
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In short, DBS Artbook, Gowasu statement from anime (which backed up by many translations) and also a game scan. Directly stated Zamasu become the Abstract Ideas of Justice and Order of the universe, which is blatant AE1 evidences
 
Antvasima said:
I have unlocked them. Tell me here when you are done please.
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Alright, i'm done you can lock thosw profile, however would you mind open Son Goku (Super Dragon Ball Heroes)????, he need some edits as well, thank you

Edit: Also I forgot to mention this, Game Zamasu update is from mid-godly to high-godly regen, since he is now accepted as abstract ideas/conceptual being, game Zamasu like DBH regen from being erased as conceptual being.
 
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Vietthai96 said:
Alright, i'm done you can lock thosw profile, however would you mind open Son Goku (Super Dragon Ball Heroes)????, he need some edits as well, thank you

Edit: Also I forgot to mention this, Game Zamasu update is from mid-godly to high-godly regen, since he is now accepted as abstract ideas/conceptual being, game Zamasu like DBH regen from being erased as conceptual being.
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Shouldn't Hearts, cc Goku, Fu and the universe tree have a high-godly regeneration denial with these changes in zamasu's profile?
 
Minor question, does Zeno have any feat to affect IZ rather than just erasing the entire universe? Because if that's the case then he likely has no NPI feat due to indirect influence (IZ is concept type 2 for now), as stated by AE page:

Abstract entities recurrently strictly embody a concept, thought or idea up to a certain level of reality. For example, Eternity only embodies time on a local, universal scale. If the universe is destroyed, so is he.
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Delta333 said:
Minor question, does Zeno have any feat to affect IZ rather than just erasing the entire universe? Because if that's the case then he likely has no NPI feat due to indirect influence (IZ is concept type 2 for now), as stated by AE page:
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Hmm, i already think about this, we only have visual feat though, still IZ already become the universe at the time Zeno arrive, so if he want to erase the universe, he still need to interact with IZ first since the universe is also IZ, so i think the feat is valid. Also the ripple effect Zeno caused and IZ scream do look like IZ being affected, even a part of him already breach to other timeline
 
Vietthai96 said:
Hmm, i already think about this, we only have visual feat though, still IZ already become the universe at the time Zeno arrive, so if he want to erase the universe, he still need to interact with IZ first since the universe is also IZ, so i think the feat is valid
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So how is that different from Eternity example in AE page?
 
Vietthai96 said:
Hmm, i already think about this, we only have visual feat though, still IZ already become the universe at the time Zeno arrive, so if he want to erase the universe, he still need to interact with IZ first since the universe is also IZ, so i think the feat is valid. Also the ripple effect Zeno caused and IZ scream do look like IZ being affected, even a part of him already breach to other timeline
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I wonder why Zeno erased the entire timeline and not just that specific universe, was Zamasu in all 12 universes?
 
Delta333 said:
So how is that different from Eternity example in AE page?
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I mean, IZ is the universe now, meanwhile Eternity is an aspect of the universe (time of the universe), which mean in order to affect the universe, Zeno need to affect IZ to actually affect and erase the universe, also IZ existence already breach beyond Future Trunks timeline, so just simply trying to erase the universe to create chain reaction will not work, Zeno also need to affect the part where IZ breached to
 
This just seems like a flowery way to say that Zanasu is trying to impose his ideas on everyone else through genocide. It isn’t something to be taken literally. We hear time and time again that Zamasu believes himself to be capable of dictating the nature of justice and order. Why would we suddenly assume this to be some kind of conceptual existence? I disagree
 
Tarang123 said:
This just seems like a flowery way to say that Zanasu is trying to impose his ideas on everyone else through genocide. It isn’t something to be taken literally. We hear time and time again that Zamasu believes himself to be capable of dictating the nature of justice and order. Why would we suddenly assume this to be some kind of conceptual existence? I disagree
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has already been applied, there is nothing left to disagree or agree with.
 
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