Like I said before, plot. Unless you want to argue that the supreme kai should be Tier 2 for defending against Zamasu's blasts. Also, in your OP you argue that FZ = IZ in terms of strength, but it seems you're trying to argue that IZ is weaker here. Your original talking points also include feats from a weaker form of Zamasu, while not acknowledging that Trunks lost to the FZ that fought Vegito before he got the sword of hope.
The get out of jail free card basically
Both versions have the same feat of overpowering Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
You do realize that SSR Trunks could, for quite a bit, hold off a sword slash from a Power Stressed Mutated Zamasu right?
So if they're at least the same thing power-wise, then there's no sense trying to downplay IZ's feats. Especially since you're essentially saying FZ's physicals are greater than IZ's ki blasts.
Trunks got overwhelmed way easier in his next two fights with Zamasu than his first.
To quote you - "So... Not dying to it instantly but still very much being overwhelmed?"
I'm trying to show examples that indicate that Infinite Zamasu being superior to Fused Zamasu makes no sense. If it came off as downplaying, that's my bad.
Zamasu was casual in that first clash. He only started getting serious once Vegeta joined in
Was Trunks's sword being slowly pushed back as they clashed like with the Holy Wrath vs. Galick Gun clash or with the Gohan vs. Cell example you gave?
Which looks even worse for Trunks's accomplishments or lack thereof.
Zamasu was toying with him, though. Trunks tries to square up with him again after that initial clash and Zamasu punches him away into the ground and nearly destroys him before his plot power up.
I already commented my thoughts on the thread.
Bruh momento
Bruhhh
IZ’s feats against the Saiyans are pretty akin to FZ’s before Light of Justice. That’s the thing.
Honestly, you could argue that FZ did better against the Saiyan's than IZ did.
Well you were neutral on the actual IZ = FZ part so I’m not sure
When you put it into perspective like this, I guess it really does make sense for FZ to be superior to IZ…
Looks good!
Well we’ve all agreed that the three Saiyans downscale in some way. The question is what to do about lower forms
We might have to just downscale them even further, or just keep them at 3-A.
I would include FZ’s feats against the Saiyans compared to IZ’s, just to further show their comparability.
That’s where my question lies:
Valid.
Magetta should get a ToP key.
I’ll edit this in, thanks
It’s implied at least. I mean, Goku and Vegeta are shown as comparable and Trunks straight up got a Zenkai after Black stabbed him (probably, at least)
Eseseso, my dude. End of ToP stuff ain’t gonna work.
That just supports End of ToP/Broly Saga Base Frieza being Low 2-C.
And then Vegeta kicks Goku Blacks ass and met no resistance while doing so until the Sickle of Sorrow, which means that anything prior to the third trip doesn't scale to Low 2-C (So Rose GB pre Sickle of Sorrow and Zamasu don't scale). So SSB Goku and Vegeta (3rd Trip), SSR GB Post Sickle of Sorrow, and SS Rage Trunks post Zenkai all scale to 1/2 of FZ.
Isn't the scaling based on IZ = FZ?
Excellent scaling, Cinos, this all checks out!
Final Form Frieza = Weakened Jiren > Golden Frieza?
Well, if the Low 2-C scaling for SSJ1 and 2 are valid and not just outliers, than downscaling even further should be fine.
Right now, only Rage Trunks scales to FZ. So even if not an upgrade, Vegeta and Goku should downscale from FZ too. That's what I agree with.
Agreed here. The keys should be renamed to account for this
I assume it’s like
