Dragon Ball Manga - 3-A Buu Aaga

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Maybe. But didn't Kid Buu have the Vice Shout anyway? He could come for them at any point. Or did only Super Buu have portals?

He could, though Elder Kai states it as an eventuality after he got done destroying the universe, so the timeframe argument works regardless.

Plus Vice Shout's really a hole in space-time as opposed to a conventional portal ability that can arbitrarily choose destinations so I don't think he could use it to instantly go to the Kaioshin Planet itself whenever he wanted anyways.

Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P6.8, P7.1-5
Context: after Kaioshin hands Goku his Potara, but he refuses it
Goku: “…Like I thought, these…just ain’t suited for us…Even though you went out of your way to hand ‘em over…We want to fight with only our own power. I’m sorry, especially since things are so dangerous now…But [Boo] ain’t merged anymore either…“
Elder Kaioshin: “Yo-you idiot! What are you saying?! And at a time like this! It’s not like you gu-guys are in a martial arts match with Boo, you know!”
Vegeta: “…Well said, Kakarot. Just like a true…Saiyan.”
Kaioshins: “…!”
Goku: “It’s alright. I’m tellin’ ya, don’t worry. He can’t come all the way here. We’ll think up some sorta strategy. I feel bad for the aliens who will be sacrificed in the meantime, but we’ll use the dragonballs later…”

,Goku even thinks that they're safe for the time being on the Kai Planet and Buu won't reach them before they come up with a plan, which wouldn't really makes sense if he can just open a portal and immediately get to them.

 

[TiltedFN]

He could, though Elder Kai states it as an eventuality after he got done destroying the universe, so the timeframe argument works regardless.

Plus Vice Shout's really a hole in space-time as opposed to a conventional portal ability that can arbitrarily choose destinations so I don't think he could use it to instantly go to the Kaioshin Planet itself whenever he wanted anyways.

,Goku even thinks that they're safe for the time being on the Kai Planet and Buu won't reach them before they come up with a plan, which wouldn't really makes sense if he can just open a portal and immediately get to them.

yeah "eventually" meaning he would literally destroy the universe, and he was seen as an imminent threat, so we actually have a timeframe. It works regardless.

 

[Hasty12345]

I personally don’t think the phrase “death of the universe” when Buu is known to lifewipe supports a 3-A interpretation.

and if I see anymore of this “Boo” nonsense I’ll flip

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I personally don’t think the phrase “death of the universe” when Buu is known to lifewipe supports a 3-A interpretation.

And he's also known to completely destroying after lifewiping, as the statements say he would. And that's such a weird nitpick, but at any rate, "death of the universe" thing is just Viz wording, the original version just says 全宇宙はもうおしまいじゃ which is along the lines of "the entire universe is doomed."

And no one said this statement in particular is 3-A, just that it says he'll destroy the entire universe.

 

[Hasty12345]

And he's also known to completely destroying after lifewiping, as the statements say he would. And that's such a weird nitpick, but at any rate, "death of the universe" thing is just Viz wording, the original version just says 全宇宙はもうおしまいじゃ which is along the lines of "the entire universe is doomed."

And no one said this statement in particular is 3-A, just that it says he'll destroy the entire universe.

It’s not a weird nitpick.

and the original text is more clear.

regardless, I do personally think the poof and guidebook statement. Is enough for the upgrade but anyway.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Maybe if it said death of everything in the universe, but yeah, as the original text says nothing of the sort and says entire universe, it's whatever.

 

[TiltedFN]

Maybe if it said death of everything in the universe, but yeah, as the original text says nothing of the sort and says entire universe, it's whatever.

Yeah it all leads to the same conclusion, which again is backed up by guidebook, so at least a multi galaxy upgrade imo is warrented.

 

[Stefano4444]

Disagree, as much i would like to be true neither feats and scaling in the Manga are enough to support 3-A, even with the statements.

The most likely conclusion its that he will just wipe out the universe overtime, which at most can be used to support its Massively FTL+ rating.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

The most likely conclusion its that he will just wipe out the universe overtime, which at most can be used to support its Massively FTL+ rating.

Z Broly and Toei Buu were both given AP ratings from calcs of statements of overtime destruction of the exact same nature as Buu here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

This contradicts the guides and the story, as cell would be as much of a threat to the universe as Buu would, if this was true.

Infinite stamina, and 4-B AP = Buu and Cell

If it's over time, than they are equal threats to the universe.

He literally is.

 

[Huesito88]

That statement of Supremely Kai stating the "entire Universe will be doomed" was stated while he was watching Gohan fight Buutenks (a "Smart" Buu), admittedly though 1 chapter later Buutenks attempted to destroy the earth with a attack. So do with that what you will.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This is just so weak...​

---

"Universe go 'poof' statement"​

This is the only argument of the thread. The single one, all other are just gruesomely misrepresenting the requirements of 3-A/2-C.
It's also misinterpreting the quotes by definition.
​

---

"Threat to the universe/Battle for Universe statements"​

These are not support of anything.
At all.
Yes, if the rampaging overpowered toddler defeats the strongest guys in the universe,
he will destroy the universe afterwards.

That is all we can conclude from those statements. Buu took years to destroy a single galaxy worth of planets, and he just wiped the civilization of said planets.
None of these statements imply any sort of timeframe, and not even that Buu will destroy it in one attack.​

---

overtime doesn't really matter for tier 2

I'm sure you've been told this already.
It does matter.
If he just rampages and destroy everything in a realm, then transports to the other,
then.​

1. It's not Tier 2 because he isn't destroying the temporal dimension.​
2. It's not Tier 2 because he can destroy the matter overtime with a multitude of attacks​
3. It's not 3-B because he isn't doing it with a single blast. Lauching a bunch of Tier 4 attacks all accross the universe over the course of years isn't gonna put you at Tier 3.​

---

CONCLUSION​

This is the single most weakest attempt at upgrading a Tier 4 character to 3-A I've seen.

If you're worried about Goku's statement, it's contradicted by Buu's time taken to destroy a galaxy.
Goku has also no way of knowing how much power it takes to destroy something he never even witnessed.
This is also contradicted by the very narrative where DBS paints the universal destruction at a much lower pace to be an impressive display.

I DISAGREE.​

 

[Stefano4444]

Z Broly and Toei Buu were both given AP ratings from calcs of statements of overtime destruction of the exact same nature as Buu here.

Toei Kid Buu at least scale to Buuhan who had an actual feat on that scale, so his rating has more legitimacy.

Broly's tier its based on the fact that he destroyed the South Galaxy at the beginning of the movie.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Toei Kid Buu at least scale to Buuhan who had an actual feat on that scale, so his rating has more legitimacy.

Broly's tier its based on the fact that he destroyed the South Galaxy at the beginning of the movie.

Buuhan's thing is just a statement too though, and Toei Kid Buu got a 3-B upgrade from a calc of destroying the Kaioshin Realm overtime long before 2-C Buuhan was a thing.

He also got a calc for destroying the universe overtime (timeframe being his lifetime) as part of his AP key, if you check the 3-B Broly thread and his profile.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Literally why are you talking about Toei Kid Buu in a manga CRT?

Do you guys just enjoy derailing?

 

[Hasty12345]

That statement of Supremely Kai stating the "entire Universe will be doomed" was stated while he was watching Gohan fight Buutenks (a "Smart" Buu), admittedly though 1 chapter later Buutenks attempted to destroy the earth with a attack. So do with that what you will.

Is it? Why’s it even relevant to Kid Buu?

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Literally why are you talking about Toei Kid Buu in a manga CRT?

Do you guys just enjoy derailing?

It's to draw a comparison between overtime destruction calcs since some people seem to be under the impression they can't be used for AP ratings, keep up.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It's to draw a comparison between overtime destruction calcs since some people seem to be under the impression they can't be used for AP ratings, keep up.

"Keep up", no, this is just unrelated!

Overtime destruction can only be calculated if there's evidence it's going to be done with one attack. You have none for Manga Kid Buu, so no, don't bring that stuff up here mate!

Kid Buu might just start throwing 4-B blasts like a rampaging maniac and fly around destroying planets at MFTL+ speeds, that's not anything other than 4-B.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

"Keep up", no, this is just unrelated!

Overtime destruction can only be calculated if there's evidence it's going to be done with one attack. You have none for Manga Kid Buu, so no, don't bring that stuff up here mate!

<Overtime destruction
<One attack

You have no idea what you're talking about and are making a seemingly unintentional strawman as a result. Broly and Toei Buu's overtime calcs are done with the knowledge that it's, you know, overtime destruction, hence why the results are 3-B. If it were one attack, it'd just be outright 3-A.

Kid Buu might just start throwing 4-B blasts like a rampaging maniac and fly around destroying planets at MFTL+ speeds, that's not anything other than 4-B.

It's already been discussed above that the extent of his travel speed and the maximum timeframes one can extrapolate for how long it would take him makes it impossible for him to do it planet by planet or solar system by solar system.

 

[Flashlight237]

I dunno, as a Dragon Ball fan, I think this is pretty wack. Even 3-C Buu is stepping into finicky territory, and there's more support for 3-C Buu than anything higher.

Then again, it's a little hard to assess a verse whose fandom thinks Raditz stomps Mr. Popo due to their incapability of understanding the importance of strategy.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I dunno, as a Dragon Ball fan, I think this is pretty wack. Even 3-C Buu is stepping into finicky territory, and there's more support for 3-C Buu than anything higher.

What're your thoughts on a 3-C/3-B rating based on an overtime destruction calc like Broly?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

<Overtime destruction
<One attack

You have no idea what you're talking about and are making a seemingly unintentional strawman as a result. Broly and Toei Buu's overtime calcs are done with the knowledge that it's, you know, overtime destruction, hence why the results are 3-B. If it were one attack, it'd just be outright 3-A.

These are not mutually exclusive. I was thinking about a feat similar to Kaguya's Extending Orb, where it takes several seconds to consume a dimension, meaning the average energy per second is much lower (thus she doesn't scale to the entire thing). We also divide it when it comes to creation feats.

Overtime destruction is calculated by estimating the average energy per second/attack the character has done. However this still requires a scenario where you can't assume the character did the feat via speed+a sufficiently strong attack power.
Example, a mountain level character who takes a day to cause a continental level destruction will still be a mountain level character.

It's already been discussed above that the extent of his travel speed and the maximum timeframes one can extrapolate for how long it would take him makes it impossible for him to do it planet by planet or solar system by solar system.

Just grant Kid Buu the travel speed to do so, his is severely low balled to the safest and lowest end

What do you mean "maximum timeframes"? Kid Buu is imortal

There's also nothing stopping him from just launching MFTL+ blasts in all directions to accomplish the feat.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

, . He instantly goes to the kai realm pretty much. So if he didn't, per gokus statement, he would have just destroyed the entire universe in a "poof", just gone.

"And if he blows up other planets".

You guys just self-sabotage, it's insane.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

These are not mutually exclusive. I was thinking about a feat similar to Kaguya's Extending Orb, where it takes several seconds to consume a dimension, meaning the average energy per second is much lower (thus she doesn't scale to the entire thing). We also divide it when it comes to creation feats.

Overtime destruction is calculated by estimating the average energy per second/attack the character has done. However this still requires a scenario where you can't assume the character did the feat via speed+a sufficiently strong attack power.
Example, a mountain level character who takes a day to cause a continental level destruction will still be a mountain level character.

I clearly wasn't referring to something of the nature of ETSB when I equated it to Broly and Toei Buu, whose overtime calcs are not based on a singular attack but destroying the universe over a certain period of time.

Just grant Kid Buu the travel speed to do so, his is severely low balled to the safest and lowest end

What do you mean "maximum timeframes"? Kid Buu is imortal

There's also nothing stopping him from just launching MFTL+ blasts in all directions to accomplish the feat.

Said travel speed would surpass BOG Whis/Beerus/Goku (who're all way faster than Buu) highest speeds by a crazy amount, it doesn't work.

It's based on him going to the Kaioshin planet and threatening to kill the Kaioshin themselves, meaning it'd be before their natural lives are over. Scroll up for that full discussion.

What's stopping him is the fact that celestial bodies or even entire galaxies aren't anywhere near straight lines away from each other to be able to land any hits like that just shooting in all directions, and he doesn't have any way to navigate said attacks that way since inanimate objects don't have sense-able energy.

"And if he blows up other planets".

In Herms' translations of this scene, Goku specifically talks about aliens being killed.

In which case he's just referring to how Buu initially hunts out planets with life specifically. No different from how he specifically targets cities where he senses life and humanity itself and destroys them one by one, and how this is complete distinguished from him destroying the Earth itself. It's not a limiting statement of his capability, it isn't even the same thing as him destroying the universe itself, which comes after.

 

[Damage3245]

Every staff member who has commented here has rejected this.

This has no chance of being accepted.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Elder Kai isn't, and he straight up says he was going to come after them on the Kaioshin Planet after destroying the universe, implying he'd finish destroying it before their lives were up, Kibito calling Gohan "our" savior for being able to defeat Buu, Goku saying Buu would've done everyone in, Kibito stating that there'd be no peace for anyone in the universe now that he was unsealed, etc. It's made pretty clear that Buu would kill anyone and everyone, including the Kai.

Elder Kai says Buu will get to the realm eventually, he never said he was going to come after them.

だ っ た ら 全 宇 宙 は も うお し まい じゃ. 護 人 プ ウ は きっ とここ へ も 来る ぞ

It's based on him going to the Kaioshin planet and threatening to kill the Kaioshin themselves, meaning it'd be before their natural lives are over. Scroll up for that full discussion.

Well, that's out of the question, it was never implied:

1. The order of events. Buu can simply go to the Kaioshin Realm while rampaging on the universe, kill everyone and then go back to his business
2. that Buu was going after them specifically

What's stopping him is the fact that celestial bodies or even entire galaxies aren't anywhere near straight lines away from each other

Actual non-issue, I never said any of said attacks have purpose, he can just fly around shooting million upon millions of MFTL+ blasts everywhere destroying everything, there's actually nothing stopping him from destroying the universe that way
The one that don't hit anything will keep going

It can take an infinite amount of time for Buu to do so too

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Every staff member who has commented here has rejected this.

This has no chance of being accepted.

Personally I'm dismantling their arguments by myself, so even less so now

I can see a consistent list of members who always vouch for "these kinds" of upgrades from one another too

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Every staff member who has commented here has rejected this.

This has no chance of being accepted.

Being considerate to what the staff has said in the beginning of the thread I can only assume this kind of upgrade CRT is commonly rejected and attempted again

Looking at the caliber behind the arguments, if they're consistently like this, I believe a discussion rule is warranted

 

[Flashlight237]

What're your thoughts on a 3-C/3-B rating based on an overtime destruction calc like Broly?

If there is an actual timeframe (especially since cinematics don't exist in any form of print media), then I can see myself lightening my stance a little. Otherwise, it's too finicky to really consider.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Well, that's out of the question, it was never implied:

1. The order of events. Buu can simply go to the Kaioshin Realm while rampaging on the universe, kill everyone and then go back to his business
2. that Buu was going after them specifically

That's not how Elder Kai words what he says. He says he'll go there eventually too after saying he'll destroying the entire universe, they're different actions altogether. And that's quite the redundant interpretation considering the Kaioshin Realm is further removed from the universe than any other place in it. Not to mention it especially doesn't work considering that he'd never be able to get them if he left the universe intact before going to them because they'd just be able to iinstantly escape with Kai Kai which can go to any existing planet.

I never said that he's coming after them specifically, but that he'd reach the Kaioshin planet at some point to kill them. Buu not going after them specifically literally just helps that point if anything. Regardless, it's made very clear they fear being killed by him.

Actual non-issue, I never said any of said attacks have purpose, he can just fly around shooting million upon millions of MFTL+ blasts everywhere destroying everything, there's actually nothing stopping him from destroying the universe that way
The one that don't hit anything will keep going

It can take an infinite amount of time for Buu to do so too

What's stopping him is that Ki blasts like that detonate upon impact and he has no way of landing the hits on inanimate objects that far away. And it's still an issue no matter how many attacks he shoots, because objects in the universe literally just aren't straight lines singular directions apart. There's no way to hit everything doing something like that and there's a reason something this superfluous isn't attributed to the other calcs of similar statements.

No, it would not take anyone of any tier infinite time to destroy a literally finite universe.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

That's not how Elder Kai words what he says. He says he'll go there eventually too after saying he'll destroying the entire universe, they're different actions altogether. And that's quite the redundant interpretation considering the Kaioshin Realm is further removed from the universe than any other place in it. Not to mention it especially doesn't work considering that he'd never be able to get them if he left the universe intact before going to them because they'd just be able to iinstantly escape with Kai Kai which can go to any existing planet.

I never said that he's coming after them specifically, but that he'd reach the Kaioshin planet at some point to kill them. Buu not going after them specifically literally just helps that point if anything. Regardless, it's made very clear they fear being killed by him.

What's stopping him is that Ki blasts like that detonate upon impact and he has no way of landing the hits on inanimate objects that far away. And it's still an issue no matter how many attacks he shoots, because objects in the universe literally just aren't straight lines singular directions apart. There's no way to hit everything doing something like that and there's a reason something this superfluous isn't attributed to the other calcs of similar statements.

No, it would not take anyone of any tier infinite time to destroy a literally finite universe.

Infinite time was a hyperbole
No, it's not going to take an infinite amount of time, I was just saying it can take any amount of time.​

---

I don't have a reason to believe Elder Kai can even predict which order Buu will pick to destroy, but that doesn't really matter

---

It's also not the appropriate reaction to have your whole premise debunked, and say "well, it still clearly means what I meant"
It doesn't
And that's okay
Your entire premise was how Elder Kai stated that Buu was going after them. "I never said it"? It's a lie, you did. Look at this

he straight up says he was going to come after them on the Kaioshin Planet after destroying the universe

See? You said it
Admit you're wrong, it's clear you were referring to the statement I just debunked

I should also point out how dying in the Kaioshin Realm will result in your soul just remaining there too
Meaning the timeframe argument can be entirely discarded​

---

Your counterpoint to the ki blast was just repeating what you said again!
I'd like to inform you that the cardinal position of celestial bodies plays no part on my point!
So!
Stop!
Saying it does!

Yes, he can eventually destroy everything with this method
We know Buu can shoot over 8 billion attacks in just a couple seconds,
give it a couple YEARS, and this number will be so high that the likelihood of Buu hitting a lot of things is immense
Mix that with intentional destruction, and boom, you have your rapid universal destruction​

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I don't have a reason to believe Elder Kai can even predict which order Buu will pick to destroy, but that doesn't really matter

Yeah, it doesn't matter, because if he doesn't destroy the universe before attacking them, they'd just be able to dip.

It's also not the appropriate reaction to have your whole premise debunked, and say "well, it still clearly means what I meant"
It doesn't
And that's okay
Your entire premise was how Elder Kai stated that Buu was going after them. "I never said it"? It's a lie, you did. Look at this

See? You said it​

Because that's exactly what he says, which is that he'd come there and kill them. That's literally the entire point behind Shin and Kibito agreeing to let Elder Kai revive Goku (despite being against it earlier) and Shin offering his life up in direct response to that exact statement, you know, almost as if it's written as "if we'll die anyway standing by, might as well give up one of our lives on the chance Goku can do something.

Be that him intentionally chasing them or a consequence of going there, it doesn't matter, and I never argued either way. The fact doesn't change that he will come after them there specifically and will kill them there.

Your counterpoint to the ki blast was just repeating what you said again!
I'd like to inform you that the cardinal position of celestial bodies plays no part on my point!
So!
Stop!
Saying it does!

Yes, he can eventually destroy everything with this method
We know Buu can shoot over 8 billion attacks in just a couple seconds,
give it a couple YEARS, and this number will be so high that the likelihood of Buu hitting a lot of things is immense
Mix that with intentional destruction, and boom, you have your rapid universal destruction​

What you're saying only works with an omnidirectional explosion that has an actual expanding spherical AOE from the origin point that covers everything, not with individual attacks flying in straight lines. The sense of directions from Buu's human sized body and perception shooting individual Ki Blasts in straight lines from where he is, even in all directions, literally just isn't capable of having close to AOE to reach enough points in a 3-D sphere as big as the universe compared to him (straight lines from where he is is incapable of having an actual spherical AOE, which is the only way he could hit everything in the universe).

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah, I disagree with this. Starting to feel like we need a discussion rule for Kid Buu soon.

Personally speaking I'm fine with a rule being added. We've had a decent number of threads about this specific topic and they've all been rejected up to this point.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Yeah, it doesn't matter, because if he doesn't destroy the universe before attacking them, they'd just be able to dip.

Because that's exactly what he says, which is that he'd come there and kill them. That's literally the entire point behind Shin and Kibito agreeing to let Elder Kai revive Goku (despite being against it earlier) and Shin offering his life up in direct response to that exact statement, you know, almost as if it's written as "if we'll die anyway standing by, might as well give up one of our lives on the chance Goku can do something.

Be that him intentionally chasing them or a consequence of going there, it doesn't matter, and I never argued either way. The fact doesn't change that he will come after them there specifically and will kill them there.

What you're saying only works with an omnidirectional explosion that has an actual expanding spherical AOE from the origin point that covers everything, not with individual attacks flying in straight lines. The sense of directions from Buu's human sized body and perception shooting individual Ki Blasts in straight lines from where he is, even in all directions, literally just isn't capable of having close to AOE to reach enough points in a 3-D sphere as big as the universe compared to him (straight lines from where he is is incapable of having an actual spherical AOE, which is the only way he could hit everything in the universe).

I won't engage with this anymore
Read the very page you cited, he is offering his life to save the universe, not their lives.

The argument that Buu will destroy the universe in a thousand years or 75 thousand years is more than over at this point, you lost

You also never addressed the fact that they stay at the Kaioshin Realm after death, meaning there is no time limit to how long it takes for Buu to get there and destroy them, either body or soul

---

The way you speak about the ki blast argument tells me you are just unaware of the magnitude that 8 billion projectiles in all directions per second means over a period of years. I believe the sheer magnitude of the danmaku more-than-compensates for the lack of AoE, furthermore considering each of this 8 billion projectiles can burst into a solar system engulfing blast, meaning 4 light years per projectile.

Out of the, let's say in one year, so 2.5248e+17 projectiles he launched over one year, only about 50 billion would need to hit, or a hit rate of 0.00000198035488%.
That's beyond fair.

 

[CraigTucker]

Buu took years to destroy a single galaxy worth of planets, and he just wiped the civilization of said planets.

This had been address countless times. There is no point in continue using this argument. Buu did this in the past, this doesn’t mean he did it now as you can see when buu came back to existence he started to destroy the structure of the planet and ect not only the civilization. The argument here is just using a bad analogy fallacy.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Disagree for tempest, damage etc mods reasons

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I won't engage with this anymore
Read the very page you cited, he is offering his life to save the universe, not their lives.

Just going to re-cite what I said above because it seems you completely missed the point to strawman something I never said.

That's literally the entire point behind Shin and Kibito agreeing to let Elder Kai revive Goku (despite being against it earlier) and Shin offering his life up in direct response to that exact statement, you know, almost as if it's written as "if we'll die anyway standing by, might as well give up one of our lives on the chance Goku can do something.

Giving up their lives refers to giving Goku their lifespans. Read this part very carefully or just reread the whole of DBZ 306.

Elder Kai initially offers his life, they object, Elder Kai refutes their hesitance by saying he'd come there too, which is what makes them fold. It couldn't be more clear what's being said there.

The argument that Buu will destroy the universe in a thousand years or 75 thousand years is more than over at this point, you lost

Nope. He would've killed the Kaioshin by his own hand, so he has to be able to. There's no way around it.

You also never addressed the fact that they stay at the Kaioshin Realm after death, meaning there is no time limit to how long it takes for Buu to get there and destroy them, either body or soul

It doesn't matter since Shin nor Kibito were aware of that when Elder Kai said that and actually taking such a thing into account. They were completely shocked to see Elder Kai somehow get back up. And Elder Kai's clearly a special case for this too, none of the other Kai have kept existing in the Kaioshin Realm after their lifespans ended.

The way you speak about the ki blast argument tells me you are just unaware of the magnitude that 8 billion projectiles in all directions per second means over a period of years. I believe the sheer magnitude of the danmaku more-than-compensates for the lack of AoE, furthermore considering each of this 8 billion projectiles can burst into a solar system engulfing blast, meaning 4 light years per projectile.

Out of the, let's say in one year, so 2.5248e+17 projectiles he launched over one year, only about 50 billion would need to hit, or a hit rate of 0.00000198035488%.
That's beyond fair.

No, it absolutely doesn't compensate. Scaling from Cell's 4-B key is a range of only 1 AU, not 4 LY. He wouldn't make a dent in the universe like that.

The timeframe or how many attacks doesn't matter dude, the issue is him shooting blasts in straight lines from a human sized body and perception. He'll barely actually hit anything like that. He can't navigate or move Ki blasts to hit things when he has no idea where they're even at. No matter how long he fires attacks for the given range he has just isn't close, it's simply too limited. The number of attacks or how long he shoots them doesn't increase the limited range he has.

Try and visualize it. An AOE that consists of straight lines (directionally) out of a human sized body across a sphere 93 billion LY in diameter and a simple 1 AU wide (on actual impact too, not even the initial blasts themselves which tend to be pretty small). This omnidirectional stuff doesn't change anything without an actual spherical AOE.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Just going to re-cite what I said above because it seems you completely missed the point to strawman something I never said.

Giving up their lives refers to giving Goku their lifespans. Read this part very carefully or just reread the whole of DBZ 306.

Elder Kai initially offers his life, they object, Elder Kai refutes their hesitance by saying he'd come there too, which is what makes them fold. It couldn't be more clear what's being said there.

Sophism at it's finest.

Stop complaining and twisting a simple statement.

The statement was "I will offer my life, otherwise the universe is doomed"
Yet you INSIST the line is "I will offer my life because he will kill us anyway"
WHEN THERE'S NOTHING POINT AT THIS.

You're forcing, stonewalling, twisting the simplest statement in the entire universe to try and get your objectively false point across;

NO. There is no time limit to how long Buu will take to destroy the universe.
You can cope as much as you want.​

Nope. He would've killed the Kaioshin by his own hand, so he has to be able to. There's no way around it.

What are you talking about? What red herring bs is this? I'm not going to engage with that.

It doesn't matter since Shin nor Kibito were aware of that when Elder Kai said that and actually taking such a thing into account. They were completely shocked to see Elder Kai somehow get back up. And Elder Kai's clearly a special case for this too, none of the other Kai have kept existing in the Kaioshin Realm after their lifespans ended.

It does matter because their offer was to save the universe from death, that's what Elder Kai stated would happen, you keep ignoring this and focusing on the latter part of the statement WHICH DOESN'T EVEN SAY ANYTHING. The offer Shin and Kibito made are irrelevant.
Elder Kai isn't a special case whatsoever, we don't know any other kai whose life span was finished while in the realm, they were either absorbed, or something else.

No, it absolutely doesn't compensate. Scaling from Cell's 4-B key is a range of only 1 AU, not 4 LY. He wouldn't make a dent in the universe like that.

The timeframe or how many attacks doesn't matter dude, the issue is him shooting blasts in straight lines from a human sized body and perception. He'll barely actually hit anything like that. He can't navigate or move Ki blasts to hit things when he has no idea where they're even at. No matter how long he fires attacks for the given range he has just isn't close, it's simply too limited. The number of attacks or how long he shoots them doesn't increase the limited range he has.

Try and visualize it. An AOE that consists of straight lines (directionally) out of a human sized body across a sphere 93 billion LY in diameter and a simple 1 AU wide (on actual impact too, not even the initial blasts themselves which tend to be pretty small). This omnidirectional stuff doesn't change anything without an actual spherical AOE.

How can someone be just plain incorrect with such confindence.
Dawg, YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, and I'm sick of explaining basic logic and getting replied with "But see, it's hard to think about that, look at this baseless reasoning".

Talking to you is like talking to a brickwall.

Better yet, it's like talking to a person who is ignorant on math, physics or any sort of spatial awareness, but loves to talk like they do know what they're talking about. I'll not go into the math again, you very explicitly does not understand what you're talking about, what part of "0.00001% of the attacks would need to hit" you don't understand?

You don't think that's going to happen? Bring the receipts instead of just talking out of your ignorance. Actually bring up the emptiness of space, the likelihood of hitting any sort of object in the vastness of space while travelling at the speed the projectiles are travelling, BRING OUT THE MATH to prove that the 0.00001% opportunity isn't going to happen with over 2.2e17 samples.

 

[Golden_Void]

Universe kid buu but super buu needed dimensional hax to escape a planetary spacetime within the observable universe

The same spacetime base Vegeta busted by powering up in the Future Trunks arc

range at best

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

yeah tbh I think eventhough the thread is right, it's one of those threads with 0 chance of getting passed onsite