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well its apparent in both
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Dragon Ball Manga - 3-A Buu Aaga
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Guacamolefletcher
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He's a source on his power, and he can understand "hey, this guy is so strong, he could destroy the whole thing," which is backed up by guidebooks. Clearly, this conclusion has more evidence behind it.
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How is this an outlier? This is literally narratively based this doesn’t break the narrative in any way
If the title of the chapter and statements fit the same narrative then why would it not be taken literally? Also I thought Hermes translations were universally accepted on this wiki
Even if you severely lowball the time frame this is atleast 3-C or 3-B
CraigTucker
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Their was apart of the anime where Buu teleport to the Grand Kai world threating to destroy it but was stop because of Goku and Vegeta but yea I remember now
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That is toei only
CraigTucker
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Isn't this thread also upgrading toei?
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Goku's literally just going off what the Kais told him though. Elder Kai even has to go out of his way to remind him of this so him and Shin accepts the offer of giving his lifespan to him.
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Toei is already accepted but their feats don’t matter cuz Kid Buu already upscales Buuhan
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Yeah the absolute best and most that can be given to buu is 3-A, Goku being explicitly not worried of Kid Buu prior to him IT on their location proves he never had the AP or range to destroy the macrocosm in one shot.
Don’t personally agree with tier three though. 4-B and MFTL+ is all it takes to destroy everything in the universe.
Nullflowerblush
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The context includes:
- "This djinn possesses neither reason nor emotion. He exists solely to slaughter and destroy. To strike fear into the hearts of all living things. In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out." ~ DBZ:251 - "The Terrible Mystery"
- "Just as the Lord of Lords feared, Boo defies all imagination. At this rate, every living being on Earth and in the entire [universe] will be snuffed out." ~ DBZ:275 - "A Slim Hope"
- Earth is blown up. ~ DBZ:314 - "The Boo of Pure Evil"
- "Give them your Potara! They can combine again! Here!! Before any more planets get destroyed!!" ~ DBZ:315 - "Battle for the Universe"
"Poof" can also be interpreted as "all life forms and all planets disappearing", which is consistent with the above statements.
Guacamolefletcher
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Yeah, it wouldn't make sense narratively nor with the guides if it'd be over a long period of time, only for him to be 4-B, Null
not a counter to anything.
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I'm with Damage.
- 2,712
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I disagree, there was also guide book statements, like guac posted that confirms he could destroyed the universe, interpreting "poof" any other way doesn't seem right.
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When you fall into a certain impression of what the "narrative" is, that starts to taint all other pieces of evidence.
Everyone has different interpretations of what the "Narrative" is. It's not a good idea to rely upon it as an argument.
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Dude again, toei only
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Thank you @Nullflowerblush. It has always been shown and implied that Buu's "destruction of the Universe" is an over-time issue. Vegeta's statement and the chapter title, if you wish to rely on such things, do not contradict that context.
Guacamolefletcher
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I agree, but if it's something that's well-established by multiple pieces of evidence and guidebooks, and the story itself contextualized by super is implying it, then I think it's clearly swaying our understanding of the story more to tier three than low tier 4.
I agree with you "narrative" arguments suck, but I'm specifically talking baout the story and guides in this context
This contradicts the guides and the story, as cell would be as much of a threat to the universe as Buu would, if this was true.
Infinite stamina, and 4-B AP = Buu and Cell
If it's over time, than they are equal threats to the universe.
Nullflowerblush
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Cell's goal was never to go around the universe and blow up planets. Its goal was to spread terror through power.
Why would Cell be described as capable of destroying of the universe if that was never in its agenda?
Nullflowerblush
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"Destroy the universe", like "destroy the world", can mean a litany of things without proper context. Fortunately, context exists.
This is not like Goku and Beerus, where they are consistently described as being able to erase everything within the universe and reduce the entire structure to an empty void instantaneously. Buu has been consistently described as a planet-destroyer.
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Toei buu is 2-C
Guacamolefletcher
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The point is, cell would have the "power" to do so, just like the guide says for Buu.
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"Guides" are secondary canon at best, or even tertiary canon sometimes. And the information from the manga will always trump them.
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No it can't (poof is specifically used to make note of how instantenously something happens, and no it's not consistent. The story makes a clear distinction between Buu killing life and destroying individual parts of a place as minuscule as Earth in comparison than destroying the planet itself. The poof statement is completely unrelated to the above.
<Destroys entire cities
<80% and later all of humanity
<10% of the planet itself
<They still don't ever categorize it as him being in the process of destroying the Earth itself of Earth being destroyed
Life, cities and an entire part of the planet to the Earth itself, is like, unfathomably close in scale to life and planets to the entire universe (literally a bigger discrepancy than grains of sand on a beach). This interpretation makes no sense, it's just not how the wording works nor how the story writes things. Buu destroying life and individual planets has nothing to do him with destroying the universe itself.
Guacamolefletcher
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Your proof for "Destroying the universe" meaning over time with him being 4-B, which is NOTHING compared to the scale of the universe, is unsupported and lacks evidence.
People in universe think he's gonna do it quickly, the guides think that too.
Guacamolefletcher
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The manga doesn't contradict that.
ALSO, they are primary sources of evidence, even if "secondary canon"
that "secondary canon" is uncontradicted and uncontested, and especially with what we know of EML, it's a primary source too.
CraigTucker
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Guides can still be used to support the series, Unless supporting it condraict the seires and holds no value than this is irrelevent
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Guacamolefletcher
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Yeah
UNLESS they verbatum stated with hard direct statements that "buu was only gonna destroy the planets one by one," then it's not a contradiction
UNLESS they verbatum stated with hard direct statements that "buu was only gonna destroy the planets one by one," then it's not a contradiction
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Yeah 4-B is just wrong, even calling it overtime, the context given in series for the timeframe wouldn't make it anywhere near being lower than 3-B.
CraigTucker
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I was corrected on that Dude please get back in topic
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I Disagree. Unofficial translations are 99% unacceptable imo. You can change one word and create an entirely different kind of feat. The raw japanese would need to back up an unofficial translation if it was to be taken over the official ones.
An example of this would be the common use of the japanese word "Hoshi" 星 to refer to either a planet or star. The english translation of this word can easily turn a planet busting statement into a star busting statement, which is a massive difference to justify on a whim.
There needs to be intense scrutiny with unofficial translations. I'm not totally against them, but it is still 'technically' non-canon. They should only be used in specific situations where we do not have an official english translation, or it is very clear what the statement in japanese is referring to.
An example of this would be the common use of the japanese word "Hoshi" 星 to refer to either a planet or star. The english translation of this word can easily turn a planet busting statement into a star busting statement, which is a massive difference to justify on a whim.
There needs to be intense scrutiny with unofficial translations. I'm not totally against them, but it is still 'technically' non-canon. They should only be used in specific situations where we do not have an official english translation, or it is very clear what the statement in japanese is referring to.
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Herms is accepted on this site, this is not an argument, how about actually contesting the arguments.
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- #73
The guides are supporting the statements in the manga.
- 2,712
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- #74
Yeah thats good evidence, overtime would have to be 3-B at minimum, but its telling us it would be an done in an instant.If you believe the destruction of the Universe is overtime then it’s still tier 3
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The poof translation literally comes from Herms (who's been reputed for his translations of DB since like, 2005?) and consistently cross checked to be better than Viz which creates what's equivalent to an English Dub for the manga. Not to mention the wording used being the same as Zeno destroying 6 universes, which the official Crunchyroll subs translated as "Boom" if I'm not mistaken.
The translation's fine.
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I am contesting this universally. Herms is non-canon. Is he sometimes right? Yes. Is this a clear scenario for such an exception? No. Unless you can prove the raw japanese was specifically using the term "poof" over any other word.
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theres your proofIf you believe the destruction of the Universe is overtime then it’s still tier 3
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Overtime destruction fits his historical modus operandi, not even once do the people who have the most knowledge on him ever state he destroys more than planets at a given time, he took several years to destroy hundreds of planets, this really is taking one statement by Goku and taking it to its highest conclusion as if he were speaking in a non casual matter-of-fact manner to describe Buus capabilities.
2-C is out of the window right off the bat because Goku wasn’t the least bit worried about Buu while in the kaio realm, as shown here
Which forces to recontextualize Gokus statement to mean the living universe, and if were already having to downgrade the statement because it contradicts one made earlier, that should speak for the validity of the statement itself.
2-C is out of the window right off the bat because Goku wasn’t the least bit worried about Buu while in the kaio realm, as shown here
Which forces to recontextualize Gokus statement to mean the living universe, and if were already having to downgrade the statement because it contradicts one made earlier, that should speak for the validity of the statement itself.
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