Dragon Ball Manga - 3-A Buu Aaga

[TiltedFN]

Introduction
Hello all, my proposal for this thread is for the universal arguments to be taken into account from the buu saga. First off, we have goku's universal kid buu statement. .
Saying kid buu will make the universe go "poof" all the way from the kaioshin realm which is currently accepted as another spacetime. If we take this statement into account, this would upgrade buu to "Low multiverse level" Or "Universe level". Vegeta also says the universe is at stake: . Also the manga page says "battle for the universe". . So just some supporting evidence.

Counter arguments:
"Buu could've just destroyed the kaioshin realm and then destroy the rest of the macrocosm". You would have to prove that to be the case, goku saying it would go "poof" seems to imply one big explosion if they lost, with everything being instantly gone.

"The destruction could have been overtime"
Even if this was the case, overtime doesn't really matter for tier 2, it would still be a low multiverse level feat for destroying all the realms and their respective spacetimes.

We know that super buu is capable of affecting spacetime, albeit on smaller scale, he was still able to destroy spacetime, even goku's energy from going super saiyan 3 was able to hit the kaioshin realm which is another dimension, without any of the characters there even having to sense his energy, it just hit them, despite being in another spacetime entirely. , , https://imgur.com/ZiEBR7f. Now this is just some evidence that up to this point, characters can affect spacetime, not saying this is definitive evidence for tier 2 buu, but just something to consider.

Options: If you happen to disagree with tier 2 buu, i feel like "3-A" should be a possibility, even 3-B or 4-A would suffice, seeing as how he would be a universal threat stated multiple time within the manga. But to me 3-A makes the most sense.



Agree: CraigTucker, SSJGeminiJJ, OmegaBronic, Speedster352, Hiryu-Z, Guacomolefletcher

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Neutral:




Disagree: Damage3245, NullFlowerBush, SamanPatou, KingTempest

 

[CraigTucker]

Agree FRA

 

[Ped2018]

What fra lil bro

 

[CraigTucker]

What fra lil bro

My big monkey third leg

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I agree with an at least 3-B possibly 3-A Buu for the poof statement. Even if it was considered overtime, there's an indicated maximum timeframe of the lifespan of the living beings in the universe, and the poof makes it extremely quick at worst (even though there's some evidence that points to it being one attack). Could really just a stick a calc similar to Z Broly destroying the universe on it (which is way into 3-B) and call it a day and whether he's 3-A can be it's own discusion.

2-C is a complete reach because Kid Buu could easily just teleport back to the universe and blow it up. Just delete all the Tier 2 stuff it's as flimsy as it could be and won't go anywhere.

 

[Damage3245]

Oh, it's this topic again.

Yeah, I disagree with this. Starting to feel like we need a discussion rule for Kid Buu soon.

 

[omegabronic]

Vegeta also says the universe is at stake: . Also the manga page says "battle for the universe". . So just some supporting evidence.

How do we know that it is "universe" as in the entire macrocosm instead of being just the living universe? Since that is what most characters call it when they say "universe" in Z

Counter arguments:
"Buu could've just destroyed the kaioshin realm and then destroy the rest of the macrocosm". You would have to prove that to be the case, goku saying it would go "poof" seems to imply one big explosion if they lost, with everything being instantly gone.

He said "poof" which implies that buu would have made the universe disapear instantly, which would be true regardless if he destroyed the kaio realm first and then went to destroy the universe immediatly after

"The destruction could have been overtime"
Even if this was the case, overtime doesn't really matter for tier 2, it would still be a low multiverse level feat for destroying all the realms and their respective spacetimes.

again, how do we know that he would have destroyed all the realms instead of just the universe/living world?

We know that super buu is capable of affecting spacetime, albeit on smaller scale, he was still able to destroy spacetime

we accept that super buu>>>>>kid buu on this site, so not really a good comparison

, even goku's energy from going super saiyan 3 was able to hit the kaioshin realm which is another dimension, without any of the characters there even having to sense his energy, it just hit them, despite being in another spacetime entirely. , , . Now this is just some evidence that up to this point, characters can affect spacetime, not saying this is definitive evidence for tier 2 buu, but just something to consider.

this is a range feat for ki dimensional travel, nothing here implies space time being affected

Options: If you happen to disagree with tier 2 buu, i feel like "3-A, possibly 2-C" should be a possibility, even 3-B or 4-A would suffice, seeing as how he would be a universal threat stated multiple time within the manga. But to me 3-A or 2-C makes the most sense.



Agree: CraigTucker

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Neutral:




Disagree:

Agree on 3-A, possibly higher for kid buu

 

[TiltedFN]

Oh, it's this topic again.

Yeah, I disagree with this. Starting to feel like we need a discussion rule for Kid Buu soon.

why do you disagree with 3-A stuff or at the very least 3-B

 

[speedster352]

I agree with the updates

 

[TiltedFN]

3-A seems to be the most agreed upon so far, so it can just be debated 3-A

 

[Damage3245]

why do you disagree with 3-A stuff or at the very least 3-B

It relies on unofficial translations, generous interpretations and results in a very significant outlier for the series at the time.

The "supporting evidence" is very weak as well. Using the title of a chapter which has no reason to be taken literally... Using Vegeta's statement which means nothing for AP.

 

[TiltedFN]

It relies on unofficial translations, generous interpretations and results in a very significant outlier for the series at the time.

The "supporting evidence" is very weak as well. Using the title of a chapter which has no reason to be taken literally... Using Vegeta's statement which means nothing for AP.

Unofficial? How is it unofficial, this was translated by herms, the chapter title and vegeta statement aligns with goku's statement.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Herms is unofficial but I'm pretty sure it's always been the case that his translations have been given the most stock here.

 

[TiltedFN]

Herms is unofficial but I'm pretty sure it's always been the case that his translations have been given the most stock here.

yeah im using him because he's the most reliable and has been used for past threads, so i don't see translations being a strong argument here.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why is "poof" proof of an explosion?

 

[CraigTucker]

Why is "poof" proof of an explosion?

Based of context it can be interpertated as explosion in a sense

 

[Damage3245]

Based of context it can be interpertated as explosion in a sense

That's hardly solid proof when it can easily just be a figure of speech.

 

[CraigTucker]

How do we know that it is "universe" as in the entire macrocosm instead of being just the living universe? Since that is what most characters call it when they say "universe" in Z

Based of multiple statements from even the Kai supporting that buu was a threat to the kaio realms and one other realm( Think the grand kai world which is apart of heaven)

 

[CraigTucker]

That's hardly solid proof when it can easily just be a figure of speech.

I mean that would be your burden to prove its figure of speech

 

[TiltedFN]

Why is "poof" proof of an explosion?

It can easily be interpreted as one

 

[CraigTucker]

It can easily be interpreted as one

Can you give me the kanji of it please? I can short this out based of the kanji and I can't see the images of the link

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

It relies on unofficial translations, generous interpretations and results in a very significant outlier for the series at the time.

Why is it an outlier if it's being made an important point by the narrative? It'd only be an actual outlier if they were weighed down by a different feat which is asserted of a limit for ap, not DC.

You can't really prove a previous DC feat is where their AP caps at in any reliable manner.

That's hardly solid proof when it can easily just be a figure of speech.

That still implies the destruction is gonna happen fast and all at once, not a slow over-time "destroying one solar system at a time," of which keep in mind, we accept Kid Buu's speed at 50k times the speed of light, so he couldn't really feasably achieve this in any short time frame.

 

[Damage3245]

I mean that would be your burden to prove its figure of speech

I don't agree with that. The more extraordinary the claim requires more evidence.

 

[Quantu]

That's hardly solid proof when it can easily just be a figure of speech.

What exactly would "the universe would go poof" mean in a figure of speech scenario?

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

That's hardly solid proof when it can easily just be a figure of speech.

All onomatopoeias are basically figures of speech and not literal phrases. What's important is the usage of said onomatopoeia, which is used to describe something that happens instantaneously as an immediate event. Like literally the whole point of "poof" is to note when something happens disappears instantaneously.

 

[Damage3245]

What exactly would "the universe would go poof" mean in a figure of speech scenario?

It means Kid Buu will be free to rampage and destroy the Universe at his leisure.

Not that Kid Buu would spontaneously decide to destroy the entire Universe in a single attack.

If that was Kid Buu's aim, he could have easily done that at any time.

Just like how when he spontaneously decided to destroy the Earth, he just shot a Ki blast at it. So if Kid Buu wished to destroy the Universe (as your interpretation of Goku's statement would suggest), why didn't Kid Buu just do that as he did to the Earth?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I don't agree with that. The more extraordinary the claim requires more evidence.

Can you prove that a higher AP is inherently more extraordinary?

Just like how when he spontaneously decided to destroy the Earth, he just shot a Ki blast at it. So if Kid Buu wished to destroy the Universe (as your interpretation of Goku's statement would suggest), why didn't Kid Buu just do that as he did to the Earth?

We don't really know kid buu's motivations or anything related to that at all

It means Kid Buu will be free to rampage and destroy the Universe at his leisure.

We can contextualize this with DBS, where beerus was about to show up and within their knowledge (of the kais)

 

[TiltedFN]

It means Kid Buu will be free to rampage and destroy the Universe at his leisure.

Not that Kid Buu would spontaneously decide to destroy the entire Universe in a single attack.

If that was Kid Buu's aim, he could have easily done that at any time.

Just like how when he spontaneously decided to destroy the Earth, he just shot a Ki blast at it. So if Kid Buu wished to destroy the Universe (as your interpretation of Goku's statement would suggest), why didn't Kid Buu just do that as he did to the Earth?

What? That is not what is being implied at all, its implying some instant explosion that makes the universe disappear instantly AFTER he was done fighting goku and vegeta. He wanted to fight goku and vegeta. He sensed goku and vegeta's energy so he went to fight them.

 

[CraigTucker]

It means Kid Buu will be free to rampage and destroy the Universe at his leisure.

Yea that would assume a lot of things towards the nature of kid buu because he is the type of being who love destruction you can clearly seen when he came to existance all he did was destroying planets and galaxy

 

[TiltedFN]

The narrative is literally telling us he is capable of doing such a feat

 

[CraigTucker]

The narrative is literally telling us he is capable of doing such a feat

Not only the Narrative but even Goku and Elder kai implies he is a threat to the Entire Universe. Hell the fact he could have easily enter the Grand Kai Planet proves a lot of things

 

[TiltedFN]

Actually, that argument doesn't work because buu got done regenerating and then felt goku's ki, we dont know what he would have done if he didnt sense ki in the kaioshin realm, so we have literal context on what he would have done.

 

[CraigTucker]

Actually, that argument doesn't work because buu got done regenerating and then felt goku's ki, we dont know what he would have done if he didnt sense ki in the kaioshin realm, so we have literal context on what he would have done.

No he didn't sense Goku ki in the Grand Kai world he teleport it instantly without sensing ki. I think your confusing the kaioshen world and Grand Kai world

 

[Hiryu-Z]

I agree with 3-A

Btw, since this is the manga, Super Buu would upscale to 3-A and so is Gotenks and Ult. Gohan

 

[TiltedFN]

, . He instantly goes to the kai realm pretty much. So if he didn't, per gokus statement, he would have just destroyed the entire universe in a "poof", just gone.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Just like how when he spontaneously decided to destroy the Earth, he just shot a Ki blast at it. So if Kid Buu wished to destroy the Universe (as your interpretation of Goku's statement would suggest), why didn't Kid Buu just do that as he did to the Earth?

Because it's always been Buu's character to drag shit out and savor destruction. We see earlier in the arc that his dichotomy's only resorting to complete destruction when he doesn't have shit else to do. Same way he only resorts to attacking the Earth itself when he truly gets bored, same could be said for the universe.

Saying "poof" equates to some slow destruction of the universe is literally diametrically opposed to what the word itself means. Buu poofing the universe=/=whatever stray destruction he causes before that. They literally make this distinction in the arc itself with how he treats the Earth.

 

[CraigTucker]

, . He instantly goes to the kai realm pretty much.

Oh your using the manga, I was actually using the anime

 

[Quantu]

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"Poof" is used to describe stuff that happens suddenly. I don't see anything leisurely with that.

Also I never agreed to 3-A yet. I agree it doesn't have to mean a single attack.

But as JJ said, even stretching it out to a longer period should still yield something in the 3-B range.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Just gonna drop this too... the guidebooks also directly say that boo has the power to destroy the entire universe, while not saying this or ever implying this for other people with infinite stamina and enough attack potency to destroy any single celestial body, and the speed to traverse it (i.e. Cell)

 

[Damage3245]

Actually, that argument doesn't work because buu got done regenerating and then felt goku's ki, we dont know what he would have done if he didnt sense ki in the kaioshin realm, so we have literal context on what he would have done.

Likewise Goku does not know what Kid Buu would have done either. He's not a reliable source here.