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Dragon Ball Heroes Speed

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Vietthai96

Vietthai96

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Oke, It is me again with another Dragon Ball Heroes revision. This time is well................... infinite speed.

Reminders: Before i'm going to present the reasons, please:
1. Read all the arguments before decide to agree or disagree, i don't like peoples going in just to mindlessly agree or disagree and FRA'ing train
2. No meme, troll, joke, this is a very serious thread so please focus on the main issue

Without further ado, let get to the main point

Again before i'm going to the point 1, i need to remind that there is nothing here related to infinite universe, daizenshuu or chouzenshuu, as much as i don't like it, there is a discussion rule for it. Oke let do this.

Point I
We all know that DB characters are capable of moving, reacting and dodging as fast as their own ki blasts and explosions (scan 1, 2, 3, 4). So DBH characters have 2-A AP and range, which mean they capable of nuking infinite multiverse (2-A), they should be able to react, dodge, etc......the explosion that can destroy infinite multiverse, or a ki blast that can travel across the multiverse
But that is all????, well no, this is infinite speed, not some MFTL, so it is time for us to move to point 2 bellow. Point 1 by all mean, is a supporting point, not the main one

Point II


Dark Shenron, when awake, his energy wash over the entire multiverse. So time to analyze this feat:
1. His energy travel infinite distance because 2-A multiverse, the size is infinite, and his energy take finite time to cover. He should scales to it because it is his own energy/ki, and we all know ki scale to both AP, Dura and Speed. And he perform the feat extremely casual
2. Two characters Xeno Trunks and Chronoa, both have 2-A power, reacting to this energy the instant when Dark Shenron appear and his energy wash over, all at the same time, by all mean Trunks and Chronoa should have at least Infinite reaction speed, but hey, this is Dragon Ball, so reaction speed = overall speed, so Infinite speed for two of them

Well, however i believe you all will not be convinced. So we come to Point 3

Point III


Mechikabura, his black hole absorbed the entire multiverse, and the multiverse is 2-A, which mean the absorption speed must be infinite, as it absorbed an infinite sized structure into itself in finite time (actually it is very short that you can even call it almost instantaneous). So time to analyze this feat
1. The two characters in the manga, Xeno Trunks and Chronoa, again reacting to this absorption, and the absorption speed is infinite which mean they have infinite reaction speed at least. Which also supported point II where this same two characters reacted to Dark Shenron energy that wash over the entire multiverse
2. Mechikabura, you can see in his profile, he was powered by this same black hole, by all mean, this black hole capable of infinite speed absorption, Mechi's speed must be scaled to the absorption speed of the black hole, the black hole itself is actually a part of his body.
3. Demigra's Light Chain, it capable of travelling from outside Mechikabura's body, to the inside his black hole which is a part of him, to Chronoa, Old Kai and Trunks positions and then pulled them out. We can also see in the scan that Mechikabura absorbed all times, which mean the entire multiverse, infinite space-time/timelines was inside that black hole, his body, which mean the black hole is infinite in size, so Demigra Light Chain must travel infinite distance to catch Chronoa, Xeno Trunks and Old Kai and pull them out, it is very clear in all the scan, and the chain must travel to the inside and back to the outside


Bonus Point


Scan above belong to Fu (Heroes), Fu in that state (Fu: Youth (Dogidogi Completely Absorbed)) was far stronger than even TPU Mechikabura, thus his absorption power (including speed) must be way stronger than Mechikabura. Why it is must be stronger when Fu doesn't show to absorb the entire multiverse, simply, because two of them have the same Time Power which is a type of energy/ki, similar to Hakai Energy is a type of Ki for Gods of Destruction, Time Power is energy/ki specific for all space-time based power (which Mechi also used to create the Black Hole), a type of universal energy system. So by all mean, Fu absorption speed must be far stronger than Mechikabura which mean the absorption speed must be infinite. In the same scan when Fu sucking everyone, baring Towa who notice something wrong, all people reacting to the fact that they get absorbed, a Demon/Demon God Salsa still can use his tornado ability to keep both Gokus (CC Goku and Xeno Goku) out so they get spare from being suck away

So conclusion. It is very clear that by all mean, all these 2-A characters capable of infinite speed

Well that is all, my English is pretty bad and broken, but i hope everyone understand, also please discussing this seriously, no joke or meme
 
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I don’t think attacks that cover a 2-A distance means it’s infinite speed, considering the fact that the distance between universes is unquantifiable. Pretty sure that all this would just be 2-A range. Could be wrong on the standards, so Neutral for now though.
 
Ohhhh yeah.....This isnt gonna end well

I do hate to be the one to point this out and yeah I'm pretty much neutral on this I'm just here to see how it plays out if it gets any traction buuuut

I'm pretty sure you're aware that the Games are a completely different power set than the various Manga and Anime in other words the Scans you posted as evidence to support "Users Ki Blast Speed=Users Speed".......yeah all of that may not scale because those are all feats from the manga and anime

Again totally neutral I just thought I'd point that out.........
 
FallenMaou2234 said:
I'm pretty sure you're aware that the Games are a completely different power set than the various Manga and Anime in other words the Scans you posted as evidence to support "Users Ki Blast Speed=Users Speed".......yeah all of that may not scale because those are all feats from the manga and anime
Click to expand...
The DBZ and DBS anime are canon to DBH, but DBH isn't canon to them.

Whatever applies to the Z and Super anime continuity applies to DBH as well.
 
Neutral ig. We do seem to have a history of treating feats of affecting infinite structures as Range rather than infinite speed, though.
 
TheGatememer said:
I don’t think attacks that cover a 2-A distance means it’s infinite speed, considering the fact that the distance between universes is unquantifiable. Pretty sure that all this would just be 2-A range. Could be wrong on the standards, so Neutral for now though.
Click to expand...
I think that we usually consider such feats as range only, yes,, due to likely having to upgrade virtually all tier 2 and above characters otherwise, even though it is usually heavily contradicted.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Dominodalek @Elizhaa @SamanPatou @Theglassman12 @AKM sama

What do you think about this?
 
Neutral, leaning towards agreeing since this is similar to the BOG energy ball explosion feat but just infinitely greater.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that we usually consider such feats as range only, yes,, due to likely having to upgrade virtually all tier 2 and above characters otherwise, even though it is usually heavily contradicted.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Dominodalek @Elizhaa @SamanPatou @Theglassman12 @AKM sama

What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
Does this also include any cosmological scaling with speed? Say using the observable universes size or an infinite universe since it would only be range instead?
 
JirensMom said:
Neutral, leaning towards agreeing since this is similar to the BOG energy ball explosion feat but just infinitely greater.
Click to expand...
That was an actual explosion of energy that spread across a quantifiable distance. These cases are not. They are Space-Time Manipulation on a multiversal+ scale. At the end of the day, this is just hax.
 
Bunch of range feats that don’t even qualify for infinite speed, but rather immeasurable speed for being able to travel to the past and future of every timeline in finite time.

every character with a 2-A feat would have infinite/immeasurable speed if we used range feats for speed.

Hard disagree.
 
I also disagree until and unless they dodge that exact specific attack designed to nuke said multiverse, or they dodge something faster than said attack (Or they just dodge an even more powerful and focused version of the attack), like when Goku and Beerus actually legitimately reacted to the explosion ball that was much swifter than the shockwaves. We need to be extremely careful with feats like this.
 
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Well just wake up after long hours of sleeping..

Antvasima said:
I think that we usually consider such feats as range only, yes,, due to likely having to upgrade virtually all tier 2 and above characters otherwise, even though it is usually heavily contradicted.
Click to expand...

KLOL506 said:
I also disagree until and unless they dodge that exact specific attack designed to nuke said multiverse, or they dodge something faster than said attack
Click to expand...
Well, normally it is just range only, however dodging, reacting, etc.....to something that can cover infinite distance in finite time still considering as infinite speed. As i said point I is just a supporting point for point 2 and 3, Dark Shenron feat was already being exlained in-deep as his energy/ki wash over the multiverse, Xeno Trunks legitimately reacting to these this, they did this again with Mechikabura Black Hole. The reason there is no escapse is because Dark Shenron did't destroy the multiverse, Mechikabura on the other hand was too strong for them, he is at that time strongest (well except Zeno and Grand Priest of course), it will be really wrong in DB if somehow weaker character "outspeed" stronger character. And later Demigra Light Chain cross infinite distance inside Mechikabura Black Hole to reach and pull Xeno Trunks and Chronoa out, which is two time of crossing that distance, the Black Hole is infinite in size due to contain infinite amount of timeline inside it, later Fu has stronger sucking speed and Salsa still capable of performing his trick of tornado skill while being sucked amd all other character still reacting to the absorption, the scan is pretty clear
And also, Mechikabura is the Black Hole itself which capable of infinite speed absorption speed due to absorbed 2-A multiverse in a finite time (which actually pretty short). By all mean Mechikabura can be scaled to his own black hole absorption speed, because well, he is the black hole
 
i mean if distance/time is an infinite value divided by a finite time then logically destroying an infinite amount of something in finite amount of time constitutes infinite attack speed, and if they scale to that they should have infinite speed, its self explanatory.

saying "well every 2-a character should have inf speed then" doesn't work because we arent discussing every 2-a character lmfao and regardless unless it leads to a contradiction it doesn't really matter
so yeah agree ig
 
Also can people stop that, i never say they are 2-A so they must have infinite speed, it is bad and low content argument. The main issue is they reacting to something that can cover 2-A distance in finite time and Demigra chain feat which cover infinite distance, and Mechikabura being black hole itself which have infinite absorptiob speed
 
Vietthai96 said:
Well, normally it is just range only, however dodging, reacting, etc.....to something that can cover infinite distance in finite time still considering as infinite speed.
Click to expand...
True

Vietthai96 said:
As i said point I is just a supporting point for point 2 and 3, Dark Shenron feat was already being exlained in-deep as his energy/ki wash over the multiverse, Xeno Trunks legitimately reacting to these this, they did this again with Mechikabura Black Hole. The reason there is no escapse is because Dark Shenron did't destroy the multiverse, Mechikabura on the other hand was too strong for them, he is at that time strongest (well except Zeno and Grand Priest of course), it will be really wrong in DB if somehow weaker character "outspeed" stronger character. And later Demigra Light Chain cross infinite distance inside Mechikabura Black Hole to reach and pull Xeno Trunks and Chronoa out, which is two time of crossing that distance, the Black Hole is infinite in size due to contain infinite amount of timeline inside it, later Fu has stronger sucking speed and Salsa still capable of performing his trick of tornado skill while being sucked amd all other character still reacting to the absorption, the scan is pretty clear
And also, Mechikabura is the Black Hole itself which capable of infinite speed absorption speed due to absorbed 2-A multiverse in a finite time (which actually pretty short). By all mean Mechikabura can be scaled to his own black hole absorption speed, because well, he is the black hole
Click to expand...
Ah, so they are indeed reacting to and dodging the exact feat responsible for such a speed and are able to dodge faster versions of that same move type. In that case, I really don't have much disagreement then.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Oke, It is me again with another Dragon Ball Heroes revision. This time is well................... infinite speed.

Reminders: Before i'm going to present the reasons, please:
1. Read all the arguments before decide to agree or disagree, i don't like peoples going in just to mindlessly agree or disagree and FRA'ing train
2. No meme, troll, joke, this is a very serious thread so please focus on the main issue

Without further ado, let get to the main point

Again before i'm going to the point 1, i need to remind that there is nothing here related to infinite universe, daizenshuu or chouzenshuu, as much as i don't like it, there is a discussion rule for it. Oke let do this.

Point I
We all know that DB characters are capable of moving, reacting and dodging as fast as their own ki blasts and explosions (scan 1, 2, 3, 4). So DBH characters have 2-A AP and range, which mean they capable of nuking infinite multiverse (2-A), they should be able to react, dodge, etc......the explosion that can destroy infinite multiverse, or a ki blast that can travel across the multiverse
But that is all????, well no, this is infinite speed, not some MFTL, so it is time for us to move to point 2 bellow. Point 1 by all mean, is a supporting point, not the main one

Point II


Dark Shenron, when awake, his energy wash over the entire multiverse. So time to analyze this feat:
1. His energy travel infinite distance because 2-A multiverse, the size is infinite, and his energy take finite time to cover. He should scales to it because it is his own energy/ki, and we all know ki scale to both AP, Dura and Speed. And he perform the feat extremely casual
2. Two characters Xeno Trunks and Chronoa, both have 2-A power, reacting to this energy the instant when Dark Shenron appear and his energy wash over, all at the same time, by all mean Trunks and Chronoa should have at least Infinite reaction speed, but hey, this is Dragon Ball, so reaction speed = overall speed, so Infinite speed for two of them

Well, however i believe you all will not be convinced. So we come to Point 3

Point III


Mechikabura, his black hole absorbed the entire multiverse, and the multiverse is 2-A, which mean the absorption speed must be infinite, as it absorbed an infinite sized structure into itself in finite time (actually it is very short that you can even call it almost instantaneous). So time to analyze this feat
1. The two characters in the manga, Xeno Trunks and Chronoa, again reacting to this absorption, and the absorption speed is infinite which mean they have infinite reaction speed at least. Which also supported point II where this same two characters reacted to Dark Shenron energy that wash over the entire multiverse
2. Mechikabura, you can see in his profile, he was powered by this same black hole, by all mean, this black hole capable of infinite speed absorption, Mechi's speed must be scaled to the absorption speed of the black hole, the black hole itself is actually a part of his body.
3. Demigra's Light Chain, it capable of travelling from outside Mechikabura's body, to the inside his black hole which is a part of him, to Chronoa, Old Kai and Trunks positions and then pulled them out. We can also see in the scan that Mechikabura absorbed all times, which mean the entire multiverse, infinite space-time/timelines was inside that black hole, his body, which mean the black hole is infinite in size, so Demigra Light Chain must travel infinite distance to catch Chronoa, Xeno Trunks and Old Kai and pull them out, it is very clear in all the scan, and the chain must travel to the inside and back to the outside


Bonus Point


Scan above belong to Fu (Heroes), Fu in that state (Fu: Youth (Dogidogi Completely Absorbed)) was far stronger than even TPU Mechikabura, thus his absorption power (including speed) must be way stronger than Mechikabura. Why it is must be stronger when Fu doesn't show to absorb the entire multiverse, simply, because two of them have the same Time Power which is a type of energy/ki, similar to Hakai Energy is a type of Ki for Gods of Destruction, Time Power is energy/ki specific for all space-time based power (which Mechi also used to create the Black Hole), a type of universal energy system. So by all mean, Fu absorption speed must be far stronger than Mechikabura which mean the absorption speed must be infinite. In the same scan when Fu sucking everyone, baring Towa who notice something wrong, all people reacting to the fact that they get absorbed, a Demon/Demon God Salsa still can use his tornado ability to keep both Gokus (CC Goku and Xeno Goku) out so they get spare from being suck away

So conclusion. It is very clear that by all mean, all these 2-A characters capable of infinite speed

Well that is all, my English is pretty bad and broken, but i hope everyone understand, also please discussing this seriously, no joke or meme
Click to expand...

according to ctr but there is literally no feat the demon gods and time patrollers jumping to different times and time lines at pure speed would be good support feats
 
KLOL506 said:
Ah, so they are indeed reacting to and dodging the exact feat responsible for such a speed and are able to dodge faster versions of that same move type. In that case, I really don't have much disagreement then.
Click to expand...
Yes, in a sense, also The Black Hole amped Mechikabura power increases his ap, durability, speed, etc...or you know, energy/ki, and it is literally a part of his being
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Each universe is finite in size.
Click to expand...
Did i ever say about infinite universe???
GodlyCharmander said:
Nearly every character is capable of dimensional travel/spacetime hax with their energy.
Click to expand...
Did i use dimensional travel to prove infinite speed???, did i say they have infinite speed due to space-time hax???
GodlyCharmander said:
The range of that spacetime hax is 2-A.
Click to expand...
Did i say, they have 2-A range hax so they have infinite speed??
 
I honestly don't have any disagreement if they indeed react to an energy wave covering an infinite multiverse (and all speeds scale to each other in Dragon Ball as far as I'm aware so it would scale regardless).

So I agree with the logic of the thread at least.

Also, people who keep saying "well any character with thus feat would scale to infinite speed" really don't make sense to me. Unless there's a contradiction within their settings then they'd scale. End of story. That's no excuse for a blatant strawman.
 
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Vietthai96 said:
Did i ever say about infinite universe???

Did i use dimensional travel to prove infinite speed???, did i say they have infinite speed due to space-time hax???

Did i say, they have 2-A range hax so they have infinite speed??
Click to expand...
Never once did I say you said those things. I just stated some facts about Dragon Ball Heroes powerscaling with no indications to anything.

You also shouldn't break down constructive arguments when I was clearly trying to paint a picture with what I was saying. "Take a look at these facts, and reach a conclusion".

I never directly attacked any of your arguments, so you don't need to be defensive.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
Never once did I say you said those things. I just stated some facts about Dragon Ball Heroes powerscaling with no indications to anything.

You also shouldn't break down constructive arguments when I was clearly trying to paint a picture with what I was saying. "Take a look at these facts, and reach a conclusion".

I never directly attacked any of your arguments, so you don't need to be defensive.
Click to expand...
Well, sorry then, i thought you arguing against so i need to defend my point
 
Vietthai96 said:
Well, normally it is just range only, however dodging, reacting, etc.....to something that can cover infinite distance in finite time still considering as infinite speed. As i said point I is just a supporting point for point 2 and 3, Dark Shenron feat was already being exlained in-deep as his energy/ki wash over the multiverse, Xeno Trunks legitimately reacting to these this, they did this again with Mechikabura Black Hole. The reason there is no escapse is because Dark Shenron did't destroy the multiverse, Mechikabura on the other hand was too strong for them, he is at that time strongest (well except Zeno and Grand Priest of course), it will be really wrong in DB if somehow weaker character "outspeed" stronger character. And later Demigra Light Chain cross infinite distance inside Mechikabura Black Hole to reach and pull Xeno Trunks and Chronoa out, which is two time of crossing that distance, the Black Hole is infinite in size due to contain infinite amount of timeline inside it, later Fu has stronger sucking speed and Salsa still capable of performing his trick of tornado skill while being sucked amd all other character still reacting to the absorption, the scan is pretty clear
And also, Mechikabura is the Black Hole itself which capable of infinite speed absorption speed due to absorbed 2-A multiverse in a finite time (which actually pretty short). By all mean Mechikabura can be scaled to his own black hole absorption speed, because well, he is the black hole
Click to expand...
Vietthai96 said:
Also can people stop that, i never say they are 2-A so they must have infinite speed, it is bad and low content argument. The main issue is they reacting to something that can cover 2-A distance in finite time and Demigra chain feat which cover infinite distance, and Mechikabura being black hole itself which have infinite absorptiob speed
Click to expand...
Okay. I suppose that seems to make sense, but I would much prefer further input from the rest of our staff.
 
Antvasima said:
That is what I am afraid of as well.
Click to expand...
Ant, I fail to see the issue with characters scaling to what is very straightforward logic to me. It's the same scaling to large scale attacks as before, just on a larger scale.

Obviously, many situations don't fit the bill and there are contradictions then they can be addressed by the supporters of the setting in question and it can be rejected or accepted depending on the result.

Whether or not this is accepted, we really shouldn't deny an upgrade solely because it reveals a premise that applies to other verses as well.
 
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