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I also agree, we should expect more people I understood from DBH and DBXV composite verse
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Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse - Downgrade about statistics
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
- Start date
- Status
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@CurrySenpai if you don't give a reason why you disagree it won't count.
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I fear such threads.
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Thanks for clarifying. People disagreeing with thread without clarification has no weight and won't be counted.
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No, it doesn’t. You always have to clarify a reason for disagreeing. Even if it’s just FRAing someone else’s reasoning, a reason is needed
a lot on this site would be accepted or rejected if “I disagree” and nothing else was a requirement.
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Yeah, you right. I'll admit defeat here. But I would like to rephrase what I said
I don't think we should entirely discredit people who say "I disagree" and provide no reasoning. Sure, their words have no weight as they have provided nothing to give them, but you never know if they got something cooking in the background or are just saying it to let their presence be known.
Ignore me though, don't wanna derail.
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Alright, you will be ignored. No worries! (jokes)
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- Thread starter
- #51
It just says every timeline is 2-C sized, not that the DBS cosmology is 2-C at best.
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I myself am very interested about the Cosmology with regards to Xenoverse. Consuming the SDBHeroes manga/anime, you don't get the sense of 2-A tbh. It's very stressed that too many timescrolls = big bad. I'm aware of infinite history DLC and parallel quests but even connecting Xenoverse and Heroes has its own issues.
I'm gonna stay neutral for now
I'm gonna stay neutral for now
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Until today I wait for a CRT to upload DBS to 2-B
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- Thread starter
- #55
Was rejected back then.
Only things that was split were character version, who are now split in keys between XenoVerse, Heroes and Ultimate Mission X.
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Ok.
Still according to trunks the cosmology is based on MWI making it endless in 2-B. He states different worlds are created over the smallest of things. This is kinda retconned in DBS with introduction of time rings where it was stated there are only 6 time rings in universe 10. Each time ring being created when there is a significant change in history. Moreover , whis also stated that Grand Zeno and Grand Priest are very particular regarding time rings and time travel. So i don't believe that it is 2-B that too endless.
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- Thread starter
- #58
6 rings based on only the changes of DBS timeline, not all of them though.
And regardless DBH has many 2-B statements.
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Then it's fine i guess.
Starfeldway
He/Him- 581
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this argument doesn't contradict the op
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And those drawers that have no end where Kaioshin takes the rings of time?
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@Dagoth_OwO @Dominodalek @Vietthai96 @Ottavio_Merluzzo @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou @Ss3micah @ProudLearner @SSJRyu1 @sanicspood @God900
What do you think about this?
What do you think about this?
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- Thread starter
- #63
Can we stop talking about the 2-B level?
Heroes has two statements for 2-B. So whenever DBS is 2-C, Heroes/Xenoverse are 2-B at bare minimum.
Heroes has two statements for 2-B. So whenever DBS is 2-C, Heroes/Xenoverse are 2-B at bare minimum.
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- Thread starter
- #66
Nothing here says about infinite timelines here.
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Talking about Mortals, not history
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In the case it cites endless possibilities, but it's okay if that statement doesn't prove anything anyway, because I was having doubts about that too.
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It is vague on itself, if it has any clarification or context, it could qualify.
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- Thread starter
- #70
Endless possibilities seem more figurative speech rather to be fair.
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I was in doubt about it, so I sent it here so that more experienced members could evaluate and show their opinions about it. but let's proceed then.
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Just a heads up, we more recently accepted Endless as being a possible synonym for Infinite and multiple staff members; especially most of the English speaking ones and ones who live in the United States agreed that Endless if taken 100% literally is synonymous with the word infinite. So at worst, if the 2-B/2-A justifications come from the numerous "Endless" statements, then that would at worst downgrade the cosmology to "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A".
Also, I forgot what complaints people had with saying Budokai Tenkaichi series being part of the Heroes cosmology, but that did have a blatant infinite translation.
So I overall disagree with getting 2-A outright but personally don't mind just making it possibly 2-A next to at least 2-B. As for Immeasurable speed, I am also personally fine with that downgrade.
Also, I forgot what complaints people had with saying Budokai Tenkaichi series being part of the Heroes cosmology, but that did have a blatant infinite translation.
So I overall disagree with getting 2-A outright but personally don't mind just making it possibly 2-A next to at least 2-B. As for Immeasurable speed, I am also personally fine with that downgrade.
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- Thread starter
- #73
Yeah but we do not use that anymore, Heroes encompassing every Bandai Namco game of DB is baseless.
Though the "endless" statement ain't gonna be used anyways, it did not talk about timelines, but more as a way to describe how unique mortals can become.
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Since I was asked to respond and I've been unbanned for now, I suppose I'll do this as a christmas miracle before I retire
For starters, Discord's profile is likely outdated so please don't bring it here. Secondly, physical movement beyond time via physical movement is Immeasurable speed. Traveling to other space-times/universes is not considered Immeasurable speed which is why the feats in question were not considered Immeasurable speed and why DBS Whis doesn't have Immeasurable speed. Traveling/transcending through time to another point in time/era via physical speed on the other hand is Immeasurable, and the DDB's traveled to different eras/points in time, not simply just another space-time/universe. Traveling to another timeline in DB specifically requires Time Travel while traveling to another universe does not.
Immeasurable speed characters using portals is not a contradiction to Immeasurable speed. Where did this kind of reasoning even come from? This same reasoning could be used to outright downplay the other DB verses to an absurd degree since they use Instant Transmission, an instant teleportation technique similar to portals in nature, to cross even absolutely pathetic distances consistently, for example: Goku using IT to cross cities and a few meters, Kid Buu using Instantaneous Movement to travel to another planet right next to his first blown up planet in the same system, Whis tagging along with Goku's IT to go to Earth, SSB Goku using IT to run away from Broly to Piccolo's place, Base Gogeta using IT to cross the planet at best and again using it to travel in front of Broly who was in the same area etc, etc....despite already having the raw speed to cross those same distances easily.
Tldr: Utilizing teleportation/portal techniques is not a contradiction to speed, it's literally just a matter of convenience and efficiency, similarly to Instant Transmission, which they keep flat-out spamming for distances which they could easily cross with their already MFTL+ speed alone. The problem that I find with this doc is that it automatically assumes that these characters actually need portals to cross time when it's never remotely implied. Especially in the DG Buu feat. Why is this doc implying that he outright needed a portal to leave the timeline when nothing implies it? He just opened a portal, Chamel stated that he's leaving and he did. The claim that "He could have just run away physically if he needed to just fly to go to a different timeline, but he did not, implying that the Dark Dragon Balls have also used a portal to access another timeline" is instantly countered by IT since "they could have just flown away physically if they needed to just fly to go to that different location, but they didn't, implying that they couldn't".
The size of the Time Vault is irrelevant. Even if we go by the finite size Time Vault stuff, it would only apply to the Time Vault itself, not the amount of timelines outside of it, plus the fact that Time Vaults already exist in parallel timelines too. The wider multiverse itself would infinite while the Time Vault wouldn't, simple as that.
The rest I might do later as I'm very tired rn.
For starters, Discord's profile is likely outdated so please don't bring it here. Secondly, physical movement beyond time via physical movement is Immeasurable speed. Traveling to other space-times/universes is not considered Immeasurable speed which is why the feats in question were not considered Immeasurable speed and why DBS Whis doesn't have Immeasurable speed. Traveling/transcending through time to another point in time/era via physical speed on the other hand is Immeasurable, and the DDB's traveled to different eras/points in time, not simply just another space-time/universe. Traveling to another timeline in DB specifically requires Time Travel while traveling to another universe does not.
Immeasurable speed characters using portals is not a contradiction to Immeasurable speed. Where did this kind of reasoning even come from? This same reasoning could be used to outright downplay the other DB verses to an absurd degree since they use Instant Transmission, an instant teleportation technique similar to portals in nature, to cross even absolutely pathetic distances consistently, for example: Goku using IT to cross cities and a few meters, Kid Buu using Instantaneous Movement to travel to another planet right next to his first blown up planet in the same system, Whis tagging along with Goku's IT to go to Earth, SSB Goku using IT to run away from Broly to Piccolo's place, Base Gogeta using IT to cross the planet at best and again using it to travel in front of Broly who was in the same area etc, etc....despite already having the raw speed to cross those same distances easily.
Tldr: Utilizing teleportation/portal techniques is not a contradiction to speed, it's literally just a matter of convenience and efficiency, similarly to Instant Transmission, which they keep flat-out spamming for distances which they could easily cross with their already MFTL+ speed alone. The problem that I find with this doc is that it automatically assumes that these characters actually need portals to cross time when it's never remotely implied. Especially in the DG Buu feat. Why is this doc implying that he outright needed a portal to leave the timeline when nothing implies it? He just opened a portal, Chamel stated that he's leaving and he did. The claim that "He could have just run away physically if he needed to just fly to go to a different timeline, but he did not, implying that the Dark Dragon Balls have also used a portal to access another timeline" is instantly countered by IT since "they could have just flown away physically if they needed to just fly to go to that different location, but they didn't, implying that they couldn't".
The size of the Time Vault is irrelevant. Even if we go by the finite size Time Vault stuff, it would only apply to the Time Vault itself, not the amount of timelines outside of it, plus the fact that Time Vaults already exist in parallel timelines too. The wider multiverse itself would infinite while the Time Vault wouldn't, simple as that.
The rest I might do later as I'm very tired rn.
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Eh, endless can mean never-ending. As in constantly increase, ad infinitum, as in not infinite but increasing infinitely.
Countless actually makes as much sense as a synonym for infinite. As any one of the finite amounts can be counted up to (but if it's constantly increase then chances are by the time you've counted up to it it's already increase higher), but only infinity which isn't any number that be counted upto is countless.
But both words can be used as a synonym of ad infinitum, infinitely increasing but never reaching infinity. All about context.
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It is acceptable for 2-B, however.
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- Thread starter
- #78
Using portals ia a contradiction if they have never showcased/directly stated to use speed. They have always used on-screen hax such as portals.
Your MFTL+ vs IT example is a false equivalence as the MFTL+ feats do exist in this case. However the Immeasurable feats, not really, it was never said they do that through only speed, and characters who were powered from the DDB used portals, implying that the DDBs traveled in other timelines through portals as well.
Meh, would wait input from @Ottavio_Merluzzo and @Dominodalek about this.
Edit: Demigra said he wanted to wipe out all the multiverse from destroying a single Time Vault. It would be weird if more of them exist now that I think.
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Endless literally means the exact same thing as infinite as far as I am aware, whereas countless just means that it is not possible for somebody to count that high.
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Countless is acceptable for 2-B, and endless for 2-A, yes.
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