Downgrading Ayanokouji's Intelligence

[RoggerReggor]

This exists since nearly a year.

I remember Zetsu also aims to work on a standard to characterize Battle Intelligence, though yes, he could not find a valid definition for something like Supergenius Battle Intelligence, and he has also paused his work on this. Though I am sure he will get back to it (and I will also try to help him with it, if he needs it of course), not sure how it will influence this thread, but I agree with the fact that there should be clear standards for Battle Intelligence, and it is something which all powerscalers both need and deserve.

 

[First_Witch]

I remember Zetsu also aims to work on a standard to characterize Battle Intelligence, though yes, he could not find a valid definition for something like Supergenius Battle Intelligence.

Another bloke I know tried the exact same thing and I will tell you and this Zetsu fella the same answer he got when he asked me: You will never be able to quantify combat skill under the intelligence ratings VSB uses unless combat skill is fundamentally established.

What is EG or even SG level combat skill when its not even established what constitutes combat skill, you feel me?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I remember Zetsu also aims to work on a standard to characterize Battle Intelligence, though yes, he could not find a valid definition for something like Supergenius Battle Intelligence, and he has also paused his work on this. Though I am sure he will get back to it (and I will also try to help him with it, if he needs it of course), not sure how it will influence this thread, but I agree with the fact that there should be clear standards for Battle Intelligence, and it is something which all powerscalers both need and deserve.

Me and Zefra are trying to find what could be the upper limit for Humans, We are researching for that

Though, Imo Bruce Lee is a good example of a genius, He has created a new martial arts which is a mix of a ton of martial arts

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

If you believe a staff thread would be more conductive since the thread is controversial, sure.

But only one person can comment and they'll be limited. So it won't be very long and once it's finished you won't be able to do much.

If this is what we are doing that is fine with me, but I am also ok with just letting staff vote at this point. At this point arguments have been given on both sides and this thread has become way too long.

Arguments for each of the qualifiers for an EG rating have been made and there isn't a consensus on them. Here are the points of EG how arguments stand as I understand it.

Individuals whose knowledge spreads over multiple fields of science - I think this is an agree from both sides. While there has been some back and forth on how in depth his knowledge is, I haven't seen any claims for him not having this.

Vastly surpass the real world's upper human limits - Here the arguments were about Ayanokouji surpassing his instructors in each of their fields and the instructors being geniuses in their specific areas. It is also from Suzukake, the creator of the WR curriculum, describing the beta curriculum as in an entirely different dimension to the standard 10 levels and the level 6 curriculum being the limit of human development with every student dropping out from that point up. The counterarguments have been focused on Ayanokouji not actually having more knowledge than his instructors and being PHD/professor level only in those subjects. They have also argued against the scans which claim level 6 is the human limit.

At this level, many are capable of creating extremely advanced futuristic technology - Here there is agreement that Ayanokouji doesn't meet this.

Executing complex strategies even under high pressure - Here I think there is mostly agreement on this although there is disagreement on how "impressive" his strategies are. Multiple examples such as his X Strategy, Island Strategy, Paper Shuffle, and Knife Strategy have all been discussed. There isn't a case to be made that Ayanokouji doesn't employ complex strategies but the level of "high pressure" has been debated. Knife Strategy is the most prominent one where Ayanokouji came to the conclusion after seeing Housen pull out the knife and how he was holding it that allowing himself to be stabbed is the best course of action.

Outperforming supercomputers, the ability to perform extremely advanced thought processes such as calculations and multitasking - The most highly contested EG point of all of them. The arguments surround Ayanokouji's chess feat where the arguments are about him making a move better than the professionals and the chess engines Tsukishiro was using could come up with. The arguments were about the level of calculation needed for this. The counterarguments were claiming that doing this is possible IRL and since it was only 1 move it doesn't qualify as outperforming supercomputers. While the arguments for it discuss how his ability to find a better move than a team of professionals with multiple chess engines even once is noteworthy. Additionally, since this move was part of a series of move Ayanokouji had calculated in advance, it means his calculations to find that move needed to exceed the engines since the engine didn't see that move in its own calculation.

There is also debate over Ayanokouji's memory recall feats with the counterarguments being that these feats don't even exist. Given Ayanokouji's perfect memory and multiple instances of showing that he can search through his memories, the argument is that during his meeting with Arisu when she says "White Room" Ayanokouji searches through all his memories for any notion of her and how she could know about him since he then confirms that he has never seen her before and isn't missing ANY memories of his past. This was supported by both the scan from Y2V11 where Ayanokouji mentioned looking back across his school life to confirm Tsubaki had no reason to resent him, and how V0 is just a complete retelling of his past from memory. However the counterarguments claim that the feat in Y1V5 with Arisu doesn't require Ayanokouji to search through his memories and is not a valid feat.

Accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations - This has been debated around the scan where Ayanokouji mentioned his ability to consider all the possibilities of a situation and then can calculate how events will unfold. He mentions specifically that he "doesn't see the future" and he has no form of actual precog but his predictions stem from his analysis of variables and then intelligence based predictions/calculation. Some of his specific perditions have been debated such as the the Y1V6 meeting where he predicted the words, actions, and interactions of how an entire conversation of 7 people would unfold. This has been challenged on the basis of whether it is a "mathematical calculation based prediction". His prediction during the Unanimous voting exam has been discussed based on his prearranged strategy to use Kei at a certain point of the exam. This has been challenged based on asking what Ayanokouji specifically predicted when he gave Kei these instructions. During discussion on this feat it was noted that the exam was introduced just the day before it happened.

Scans have been provided in the thread already for each of the feats listed here, but I can find them again if they got lost in the thread. (Honestly likely)

So since arguments will be pretty much unchanged if we continue I am fine having staff just vote, but like I said if the decision is just to make this staff only with a few people I will be fine with that too.

@RoggerReggor
@MCH2

Did I miss any of the main points that have been discussed in the thread so far? I have intentionally not mentioned BIQ since that was a derail from the original thread anyway. Ayanokouji never had a seperate Combat EG rating to begin with, it just reflected his Intelligence tier.

 

[HelloThere1089]

Not separating BIQ would definitely work in your favor, since his BIQ is never surpassing his Gen IQ.