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Downgrading Ayanokouji's Intelligence

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madara.gif

Mods, come forth!
 
Dinozxd said:
Wait. Are we making a seperate thread for combat iq?
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I don't know why this keeps coming up.

I tackled both the general and combat IQ in the OP. There is no reason to separate them.

I swear this just feels like an attempt by those in disagreement with the thread to try and stall it even more.

Just give him a flat genius rating. If you want to separate his BIQ from his intelligence after that, you all can make a thread to do that. I am not proposing a split for his intellect, I am only proposing a downgrade and a rewording.
 
Phoenks said:
I don't know why this keeps coming up.

I tackled both the general and combat IQ in the OP. There is no reason to separate them.

I swear this just feels like an attempt by those in disagreement with the thread to try and stall it even more.

Just give him a flat genius rating. If you want to separate his BIQ from his intelligence after that, you all can make a thread to do that. I am not proposing a split for his intellect, I am only proposing a downgrade and a rewording.
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Understood, though I literally stated how I agreed with the OP many times lmao. I was just asking cuz so many ppl were talking about making a seperate thread or something.
 
MCH2 said:
This isn’t inclusive of everything and is more of a summary. (Since he has a separate “feats” section).

………….

Intelligence: TBD RATING
………….
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Added some of the missing references and added some changes for the feats section. “Current feats” section is mostly good, but it needs some changes. Though it’s too big to do that outside a separate thread.

Post is #394 on the 10th page.
 
examples for the problems in the current feats section as well, let's just tackle the chess game for now:

"Ayanokouji was simply dominating"
Said or implied nowhere. they were playing even in a back and forth.
this part should be deleted for the misrepresentation that it is.
"Where he took way lesser time of only a few seconds, while Sakayanagi was taking some minutes."
If you zoom in on this paragraph and ignore everything around it, you get this impression. However, Ayanokouji had already spent many minutes thinking before this point. The reason Sakayanagi is taking her time in this paragraph, and he isn't, is because she had many minutes left and he only had around 2. Only at the very end, after she thinks for many minutes, is it finally stated that Sakayanagi had less time remaining than he did. Given that he started after she did, she actually played her moves slightly faster than he did!
this part should be deleted for the misrepresentation that it is.
"At last, Sakayanagi won, though it was only possible due to Tsukishiro Tokinari's intervention, which was revealed later."
should be "though it was due to Tsukishiro Tokinari's intervention"
"He also reveals that Ayanokouji had made a move so great, that he had outperformed even his significant number of personnel and dedicated chess machines while doing the move."
Should be : He also revealed that Ayanokouji has made a better move than the professionals he hired who also had access to a machine.

Problems with the X strategy:
"In the Cruise Ship special test, he successfully deceives Ichinose. First, he makes Yukimura reveal himself as the VIP, but as soon as Ichinose calls Ayanokouji's number, it is revealed that the device which Yukimura showed as the proof of him being a VIP originally belonged to Ayanokouji, making it seem like Ayanokouji is the true VIP, however, it is soon revealed that the true VIP was Karuizawa all along, with whom, Ayanokouji had traded her phones and changed the sim cards as well"

This is wrong, Ichinose explicitly saw through the phone swap. Furthermore, this whole endeavor is tangential to X strategy...
 
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EDIT : X strategy rewrite draft removed. I will just compile in a separate thread that I will post a link of here once we get a verdict here.
 
Last edited:
MCH2 said:
This is wrong, Ichinose explicitly saw through the phone swap. Furthermore, this whole endeavor is tangential to X strategy...
Click to expand...
Incorrect. Ayanokouji's actions during the Zodiac exam are not tangential to X strategy. His actions during the exam serve for Ayanokouji to gain further control of Class D through Kei. Him winning the rabbit group builds a sense of reliance in Kei as she sees him as someone more capable afterward. This also served to placate Chabashira.
 
TheHuntsman1001 said:
Incorrect. Ayanokouji's actions during the Zodiac exam are not tangential to X strategy. His actions during the exam serve for Ayanokouji to gain further control of Class D through Kei. Him winning the rabbit group builds a sense of reliance in Kei as she sees him as someone more capable afterward. This also served to placate Chabashira.
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The part that is wrong is Ichinose being deceived, that's straight up misinformation. she saw through the whole thing and went along with it, so that Class C or A lose CPs.

The other parts are somewhat tangentially related to X strategy. but it can be addressed Concisely like this:
In the Zodiac exam, Ayanokouji implements a phone swap strategy that ends up winning the group for his class, demonstrating the credibility of his protection to Karuizawa.
 
MCH2 said:
The part that is wrong is Ichinose being deceived, that's straight up misinformation. she saw through the whole thing and went along with it, so that Class C or A lose CPs.

The other parts are somewhat tangentially related to X strategy. but it can be addressed Concisely like this:
In the Zodiac exam, Ayanokouji implements a phone swap strategy that ends up winning the group for his class, demonstrating the credibility of his protection to Karuizawa.
Click to expand...
agreed
 
If this helps the mods reach a decision, this is the draft for the revision of the intelligence section that I've made (will be discussed further in another thread alongside other changes once we have a verdict here). You can look at this and decide whether this warrants Genius, Extraordinary Genius or a mix of both.
Intelligence: TBD. He was the sole survivor of the fourth generation trained in the White Room, which used the βeta curriculum. The βeta curriculum was described as being in an entirely different dimension compared to the standard curriculum with 10 difficulty levels used in the White Room. For context, the fifth or sixth level of the standard curriculum were speculated to be the upper limit of human capability. [1] Accordingly, the seventh generation, who were assigned level 6 of the standard curriculum, all dropped out. Firmly establishing level 5 as the limit for human development. [2] He was described as a monster by both Suzukake, the creator of the White Room curriculum, [3] and Tsukishiro [4]. He was capable of logical reasoning when he was 2 years old. [5] He mastered five writing systems at the age of 3. [6] He achieved a perfect result on a hidden implicit memory test. [7] He was stated to be a genius at age 4. [8] He did college-level [9] and graduate-level [10] mathematics as a small child. Due to a speculated genetic mutation, Ayanokouji is capable of recalling experiences as far back as infancy – a feat defying the typical limitations of infantile amnesia. [11] He can selectively store and retrieve memories, even "opening the drawers" of his memory to revisit specific events from his past, as he describes it. [12] Furthermore, Ayanokouji demonstrates the ability to consciously erase or suppress unnecessary memories, though this process is not absolute. [13] In the White Room, Ayanokouji's level of ability was stated to be unattainable for White Room students that came after him and thus his data had to be lowered when shown to other students. [14] Ayanokouji was able to absorb everything he was taught as if he was swallowing it and adapted no matter the difficulty, stated as never having reached his "plateau". [15] Ayanokouji, by the age of 12, had already started surpassing the White Room's instructors who were renowned experts and geniuses within their respective fields. Therefore, the White Room struggled to find new things for him to learn due to his in-human learning ability. [16] The knowledge he has spans many diverse domains and is stated to be many times greater than the knowledge that one normally obtains in a lifetime. [17] Despite the lowered data, he was still viewed like a god-like figure and worshipped by the students who came after him. [18] He is comparable in classical chess ability to Arisu Sakayanagi [19], whom he stated is better than the professional chess instructors he played in the White Room. [20] He was able to make a chess move that was better, according to Tsukishiro, than even the best move from the professionals he hired who had access to a dedicated machine. [21] Stated by Ryuuen to possess unfathomable ingenuity. When planning, he can anticipate most possibilities and prepare counter measures accordingly. During Ryuuen's search to uncover Class D's mastermind (X), Ayanokouji was constantly able to anticipate and manipulate Ryuuen's actions. Tricked Yagami into going into the student council room by inserting an anagram into a lover letter addressed to Nagumo and anticipating that Yagami would read it.

Started his martial arts training at 4 [22], eventually culminating in him defeating all the martial arts instructors who taught him at the age of 9. [23] It was stated that if he were to fight with a professional fighter, the fight would be over instantly with Ayanokouji's victory. [24] He effortlessly defeated 6 fighters using a baton at the age of 9. [25] Shiro said that for every brawl he had with Ayanokouji, he used to win the first 1-2 matches against Ayanokouji, but Ayanokouji never lost afterward [26], despite both being trained in the same facility continuously. Due to his learning ability, Ayanokouji was able to master archery by watching tutorials [27] Additionally, Ayanokouji was able to learn skiing to some extent by observing Kushida and others. However, after watching Ryuuen and Kitou's techniques, he instantly improved his own skiing by assimilating their techniques on the advanced course. [28] He is constantly shown as possessing good intuition regarding the strength of an opponent from just a glance; As an example, he knew that Ichika Amasawa was weaker than him the moment they met. [29] This intuition allowed Ayanokouji to realize something was wrong when Shiba's movements appeared to be sharper than Tsukishiro's, which went against his intuition. Thus, Ayanokouji was able to deduce this was false information made to bait him into attempting to take out Shiba at the last second. [30]
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MCH2 said:
If this helps the mods reach a decision, this is the draft for the revision of the intelligence section that I've made (will be discussed further in another thread alongside other changes once we have a verdict here). You can look at this and decide whether this warrants Genius, Extraordinary Genius or a mix of both.
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This is very good, but I think you should add him tricking Yagami in as well, considering Yagami was the best of the 5th generation in the WR and Ayanokoji basically saw him as no real threat to him whatsoever and got him expelled relatively easily. This should be a pretty impressive feat for Koji, unless you think number 21 already covers this, but him getting Yagami expelled might deserve it’s own little section considering how smart Yagami is in his own right.
 
Slight nitpick.
was able to master skiing in a single day by absorbing Ryuuen's and Kitou's techniques
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On the first day, he mostly learnt it from observing Kushida and others, and on the second day, he instantly improved his technique which (he himself described his own technique as being "incomplete" before) by observing Ryuuen and Kitou.

So, I would personally go for this.
Kiyotaka was able to learn skiing incompletely by observing Kushida and others. However, after observing Ryuuen and Kitou's techniques, he could instantly improve upon it by seeing them race once in the advanced course.
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This would display his instant absorption of information to learn things instead of making it seem like he learnt it in an entire day through that text.
 
MCH2 said:
The part that is wrong is Ichinose being deceived, that's straight up misinformation. she saw through the whole thing and went along with it, so that Class C or A lose CPs.

The other parts are somewhat tangentially related to X strategy. but it can be addressed Concisely like this:
In the Zodiac exam, Ayanokouji implements a phone swap strategy that ends up winning the group for his class, demonstrating the credibility of his protection to Karuizawa.
Click to expand...
This is true.

Hoshinomiya had prevented this from happening by informing Ichinose from the start about the way to change SIMs. In fact, Ichinose herself decided to trick others by just uncovering the first layer of the trap. However, while you cannot say that Ichinose was completely deceived, she was still deceived because she couldn't figure out the true VIP. She still considered Karuizawa as one of the options, but to prove her trust to Kiyotaka, she had to show the collected smartphones of classmates of her own class, which would come under the stealing rule, meaning that both Kiyotaka and Ichinose knew some secrets about each other which could be confidential and harmful to each other, Ichinose obviously being the one not gaining mostly anything from this partnership while Class D at the time actually gaining things via Karuizawa's presence.

So, I think we can mention about Kiyotaka's double-layered trap without it hinting towards the deception as well.
 
You guys need to call PMFT asap, make the staff thread like witch said and let PMFT participate, I think you can secure win that way.
 
AyeZ2 said:
This is very good, but I think you should add him tricking Yagami in as well, considering Yagami was the best of the 5th generation in the WR and Ayanokoji basically saw him as no real threat to him whatsoever and got him expelled relatively easily. This should be a pretty impressive feat for Koji, unless you think number 21 already covers this, but him getting Yagami expelled might deserve it’s own little section considering how smart Yagami is in his own right.
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Considering all the context of the Yagami expulsion, that feat is the most 'Gifted' inteligence for Koji, after reading again. Tricking Yagami really don't require genius, considering that way he did. But for planning all that trap It actually gonna be genius.

It all started with the love letter that was written by Ayanokoji but that was handed over to Horikita through one of Kei's friends under the pretext that it was simple love letter from some random unknown girl in the class who fell in love with Nagumo. Horikita accepted the proposal to hand the letter to Nagumo since both of them were on the Student Council and she had the opportunity to meet with him. However she was afraid that Nagumo could misunderstood and think that the letter was written by her and that she is the girl who fell in love with him. At the student council meeting Nagumo showed up, in furious mood, saying that someone was spreading false rumors about him trying to expel certain student, and that person who started those rumors will face punishment when he finds out who he is. He also said that there will be no more student council meetings till the end of the culture festival. Seeing Nagumo in such a bad mood Horikita decided to ask Yagami for a favor. She explained situation to him and asked him if he could be the one to give the letter to Nagumo since he was male and there would be no misunderstanding that way. Yagami accepted. However Yagami was afraid that this could be some sort of trap so he decided to read the letter. On the first look letter seemed to be normal love letter however there was hidden message inside it that only Yagami was able to decipher. Message said something like "meeting at student council room, 3pm, expulsion" so that is why Yagami came to council meeting room. When Horikita gave love letter to Yagami she accidentally saw his notebook (He might have deliberately let her see, just to toy with her). She figured out that handwriting in his notebook was similar to handwriting of the person who delivered message to her about Ayanokoji's expulsion during the special exam on uninhabited island. She wasn't sure whether Yagami was the one who wrote that message to her or not, so she decided to take another look at his notebook while everybody were busy with the festival. When she came to the council meeting room, Yagami called her via phone. She was surprised and little bit afraid but she answered the call just to realize that Yagami was standing just behind her. Yagami asked her what is she doing at student council room to which Horikita lied that she lost her notebook somewhere and is trying to find it. She asked him what is he doing at student council room to which Yagami replied that he was following her after seeing her in bad mood and trying to call out to her to no avail. He then said that he will help her search for her notebook to which she first objected but then let him help. Two of them entered conversation, pointing out some strange coincidences in two of them meeting at the student council room. After some discussion Yagami told Horikita to drop the act and that he know that she did not loose her notebook but that she came to council meeting room because another reason. He then proceeded to tell her the real reason but Ibuki show up from behind him and knock him in the ground. Ibuki told Horikita that she saved her to which Horikita answered that she and Yagami were just talking. Yagami pretended to be confused and asked them why did they attacking him. Ibuki told him that she does not trust him, and Horikita told him that during the special exam on the uninhabited island she received strange message from unknown person and that she is trying to figure out identity of thet person. She told him that she is suspicious of him because she saw his handwriting in his notebook and it looked similar to handwriting of the person who wrote her that message. Yagami said that he was innocent, and Horikita admited that there was no definite proof. At that moment Nagumo entered the room and asked them what was going on and why were they bullying underclassmen. Yagami got up from the floor and lied that Horikita had lost her notebook and that they were trying to find it but that Ibuki mistakenly thought that Yagami was trying to do something immoral to Horikita and decided to stop him by force. Nagumo accepted that answer and then told Yagami that he wants to speak with him. Nagumo then accused Yagami that he was the one that spread the rumors about him trying to expel certain student. Yagami said that he was innocent and asked Nagumo what would he stood to gain by spreading such rumors, to which Nagumo answered that he was trying to toy with him and that him coming to student coucil room was evidence of that. (Nagumo was indicating that Yagami came to student council room in order to spy on him). Yagami denied that and said that it was coincidence that he came to student council room. Horikita then entered the conversation and said that Yagami told her that he followed her to student council room and that he is lying by saying that it was coincidence for him to be there. She also said that she believes that he wasn't following her but that he was spying on student coucil room. She then told Nagumo the truth about why she came to student council room. Yagami claimed to be innocent and asked Nagumo why he thought that he is the one who spread the rumors about him. Nagumo answered that Yagami was one of the few students who knew about special exam to expel Ayanokoji and that rules of that special exam forbid him to speak about it but that Yagami broke those rules by spreding rumors and that panishment for that is expultion. Yagami told Nagumo that he is lying and that he and Horikita are trying to set him up. He accused Horikita and Nagumo that they have planed everything from the beginning and that they deliberately gave him the letter which make him come to the student council room. Nagumo acted surprised said that the letter Yagami gave him was just love letter from some girl, but Yagami told him to stop acting and that he knows that even though that letter looked like ordinary love letter it was actually a riddle which he solved and read the message that told him to come to student council room. He then accused Nagumo and Horikita that they plotted everything together from the beginning but that he is innocent and that there was few other students who knew about special exam (to expel Ayanokoji) and that must be some of them that spread the rumor. Horikita was sincerely surprised since she never read the letter and Nagumo said that he never figured out that there was riddle in the letter however he then again accused Yagami that he read his personal letter and that that is yet another proof that he was guilty. Yagami then told him to drop the act and that he knows that Horikita and him are trying to set him up and that they are acting according to Ayanokoji's instructions. He accused both of them that they came at student council room to check whether he is the one who wrote the message to Horikita back on uninhabited island and that they give him the letter in order to lure him in and question him. He then claimed that Ayanokoji called them because he was afraid to face him alone and that he will soon come. Door opened and Yagami was happy because he thought that he was right and that Ayanokoji was coming but to his surprise Ruen showed up with few of his classmates and two professors (Sakagami and Mashima). Yagami was surprised while Nagumo told him that he had no idea what he was talking about and that he came to student council room in order to meet with Ruen. Ruen immediately accused Yagami that he was the one who hurt Komiya and Kinoshita during special exam on uninhabited island. Yagami denied that stating that he was innocent and that he was not capable for such a cruel act. Ruen told him that both Komiya and Kinoshita remembered what happened during the uninhabited island and that they both claimed thet Yagami was the one who pushed them. Yagami told them that he was innocent to which Nagumo told him that Komiya and Kinoshita testimonies are not the only proofs they have against him. Nagumo explained that there was several people whose GPS was disfuncional during the incident but that only two of them were able to reach Komiya and Kinoshita location at the moment of incident and that Yagumi was one of them. At the time that wasn't enough of a proof since neither Komiya nor Kinoshita nor Shinohara were able to identify their attacker but that now with their testimonies they have enough proofs. Yagami said that it was nonsense that they suddenly remembered who their attacker was after claiming for two months that they didn't know. He accused Komiya and Kinoshita that they were lying and that they were trying to set him up, but Mushima-sensei told him that ordinary students could not have known that his GPS was disfuncional. After this Yagami realized that he lost. Komiya and Kinoshita testified he tried to kill them, GPS confirmed their accusations and Nagumo accused him for breaking the rules of special exam to which punishment was expultion.
 
A second thread or an additional argument to determine the rating is absolutely needless.

We have already presented mountains of text, discussions and arguments. Let’s await the mods in peace until a verdict is thrown based on the information already presented.

Once we get it, I will create a new thread where the revisions to his intelligence/feats sections can be discussed.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Considering all the context of the Yagami expulsion, that feat is the most 'Gifted' inteligence for Koji, after reading again. Tricking Yagami really don't require genius, considering that way he did. But for planning all that trap It actually gonna be genius.

It all started with the love letter that was written by Ayanokoji but that was handed over to Horikita through one of Kei's friends under the pretext that it was simple love letter from some random unknown girl in the class who fell in love with Nagumo. Horikita accepted the proposal to hand the letter to Nagumo since both of them were on the Student Council and she had the opportunity to meet with him. However she was afraid that Nagumo could misunderstood and think that the letter was written by her and that she is the girl who fell in love with him. At the student council meeting Nagumo showed up, in furious mood, saying that someone was spreading false rumors about him trying to expel certain student, and that person who started those rumors will face punishment when he finds out who he is. He also said that there will be no more student council meetings till the end of the culture festival. Seeing Nagumo in such a bad mood Horikita decided to ask Yagami for a favor. She explained situation to him and asked him if he could be the one to give the letter to Nagumo since he was male and there would be no misunderstanding that way. Yagami accepted. However Yagami was afraid that this could be some sort of trap so he decided to read the letter. On the first look letter seemed to be normal love letter however there was hidden message inside it that only Yagami was able to decipher. Message said something like "meeting at student council room, 3pm, expulsion" so that is why Yagami came to council meeting room. When Horikita gave love letter to Yagami she accidentally saw his notebook (He might have deliberately let her see, just to toy with her). She figured out that handwriting in his notebook was similar to handwriting of the person who delivered message to her about Ayanokoji's expulsion during the special exam on uninhabited island. She wasn't sure whether Yagami was the one who wrote that message to her or not, so she decided to take another look at his notebook while everybody were busy with the festival. When she came to the council meeting room, Yagami called her via phone. She was surprised and little bit afraid but she answered the call just to realize that Yagami was standing just behind her. Yagami asked her what is she doing at student council room to which Horikita lied that she lost her notebook somewhere and is trying to find it. She asked him what is he doing at student council room to which Yagami replied that he was following her after seeing her in bad mood and trying to call out to her to no avail. He then said that he will help her search for her notebook to which she first objected but then let him help. Two of them entered conversation, pointing out some strange coincidences in two of them meeting at the student council room. After some discussion Yagami told Horikita to drop the act and that he know that she did not loose her notebook but that she came to council meeting room because another reason. He then proceeded to tell her the real reason but Ibuki show up from behind him and knock him in the ground. Ibuki told Horikita that she saved her to which Horikita answered that she and Yagami were just talking. Yagami pretended to be confused and asked them why did they attacking him. Ibuki told him that she does not trust him, and Horikita told him that during the special exam on the uninhabited island she received strange message from unknown person and that she is trying to figure out identity of thet person. She told him that she is suspicious of him because she saw his handwriting in his notebook and it looked similar to handwriting of the person who wrote her that message. Yagami said that he was innocent, and Horikita admited that there was no definite proof. At that moment Nagumo entered the room and asked them what was going on and why were they bullying underclassmen. Yagami got up from the floor and lied that Horikita had lost her notebook and that they were trying to find it but that Ibuki mistakenly thought that Yagami was trying to do something immoral to Horikita and decided to stop him by force. Nagumo accepted that answer and then told Yagami that he wants to speak with him. Nagumo then accused Yagami that he was the one that spread the rumors about him trying to expel certain student. Yagami said that he was innocent and asked Nagumo what would he stood to gain by spreading such rumors, to which Nagumo answered that he was trying to toy with him and that him coming to student coucil room was evidence of that. (Nagumo was indicating that Yagami came to student council room in order to spy on him). Yagami denied that and said that it was coincidence that he came to student council room. Horikita then entered the conversation and said that Yagami told her that he followed her to student council room and that he is lying by saying that it was coincidence for him to be there. She also said that she believes that he wasn't following her but that he was spying on student coucil room. She then told Nagumo the truth about why she came to student council room. Yagami claimed to be innocent and asked Nagumo why he thought that he is the one who spread the rumors about him. Nagumo answered that Yagami was one of the few students who knew about special exam to expel Ayanokoji and that rules of that special exam forbid him to speak about it but that Yagami broke those rules by spreding rumors and that panishment for that is expultion. Yagami told Nagumo that he is lying and that he and Horikita are trying to set him up. He accused Horikita and Nagumo that they have planed everything from the beginning and that they deliberately gave him the letter which make him come to the student council room. Nagumo acted surprised said that the letter Yagami gave him was just love letter from some girl, but Yagami told him to stop acting and that he knows that even though that letter looked like ordinary love letter it was actually a riddle which he solved and read the message that told him to come to student council room. He then accused Nagumo and Horikita that they plotted everything together from the beginning but that he is innocent and that there was few other students who knew about special exam (to expel Ayanokoji) and that must be some of them that spread the rumor. Horikita was sincerely surprised since she never read the letter and Nagumo said that he never figured out that there was riddle in the letter however he then again accused Yagami that he read his personal letter and that that is yet another proof that he was guilty. Yagami then told him to drop the act and that he knows that Horikita and him are trying to set him up and that they are acting according to Ayanokoji's instructions. He accused both of them that they came at student council room to check whether he is the one who wrote the message to Horikita back on uninhabited island and that they give him the letter in order to lure him in and question him. He then claimed that Ayanokoji called them because he was afraid to face him alone and that he will soon come. Door opened and Yagami was happy because he thought that he was right and that Ayanokoji was coming but to his surprise Ruen showed up with few of his classmates and two professors (Sakagami and Mashima). Yagami was surprised while Nagumo told him that he had no idea what he was talking about and that he came to student council room in order to meet with Ruen. Ruen immediately accused Yagami that he was the one who hurt Komiya and Kinoshita during special exam on uninhabited island. Yagami denied that stating that he was innocent and that he was not capable for such a cruel act. Ruen told him that both Komiya and Kinoshita remembered what happened during the uninhabited island and that they both claimed thet Yagami was the one who pushed them. Yagami told them that he was innocent to which Nagumo told him that Komiya and Kinoshita testimonies are not the only proofs they have against him. Nagumo explained that there was several people whose GPS was disfuncional during the incident but that only two of them were able to reach Komiya and Kinoshita location at the moment of incident and that Yagumi was one of them. At the time that wasn't enough of a proof since neither Komiya nor Kinoshita nor Shinohara were able to identify their attacker but that now with their testimonies they have enough proofs. Yagami said that it was nonsense that they suddenly remembered who their attacker was after claiming for two months that they didn't know. He accused Komiya and Kinoshita that they were lying and that they were trying to set him up, but Mushima-sensei told him that ordinary students could not have known that his GPS was disfuncional. After this Yagami realized that he lost. Komiya and Kinoshita testified he tried to kill them, GPS confirmed their accusations and Nagumo accused him for breaking the rules of special exam to which punishment was expultion.
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Nope. Kiyotaka planned all of it upon Nagumo and Ryuuen's supposed meeting.

He would require insane prediction ability to have his plan come in action, for example, the first impressive thing about the entire strategy (it is mostly a strategy btw, so nothing actually related to a lot of planning) is that Kiyotaka has never met Takuya, but still, he tries to infer Takuya's emotions from observing both Ichika and Tsukishiro's intentions, and inferred the treatment of generations after his generation (to be mentioned, without directly ever meeting any of these people), tried to set up Suzune to waste Takuya's time, to immediately have it timed with Takuya's arrival in the council. Perfectly judged that only Takuya would have the mental ability to decipher the text which he sent in the form of a love letter (he also used the love letter to get Takuya curious) and understand it, and would never be able to explain his presence in it.

Kiyotaka also filled Nagumo and Ryuuen's actions indirectly through both rumors and information filling, also irritated Takuya based on the fact that he himself never came there, judged it entirely that Takuya would cause a rampage in there, would hurt teachers, and would have an emotional breakdown.

And yes, all of this, he predicted and all of it happened just like he planned. It basically shows an insane level of profiling Kiyotaka has on his opponents and how he can set traps for them without meeting them for once (Takuya stayed for almost 7 volumes but never really had a proper meeting with Kiyotaka of the disclosure), and no, this CANNOT BE COMPARED to you planning your life steps in any way, there's just a much higher success rate, efficiency and complexity to not even classify it as such.

No real strategist in history has done anything like this btw, because having profiling of this level is unrealistic and also, you cannot really predict timings and behaviors of everyone like this.
MorrisHatesYou said:
You guys need to call PMFT asap, make the staff thread like witch said and let PMFT participate, I think you can secure win that way.
Click to expand...
Dax would likely dogwalk the entire thread in like 5-10 messages and put BOR allegations on everyone and quit silently lmao.


Though yes, I would agree that a staff-only thread should be made. Especially when we have this:
7MpOpzz.png

(This isn't MCH2, Aki is a popular character so it's not rare to have him as a PFP. It's a person who gave me all the right to use this message any way, though I removed the names of me and him both to prevent revelation. He is harmless though and only cares for jokes, so I don't even know how to use this but yeah, take it with a grain of salt lol.)
 
RoggerReggor said:
Nope. Kiyotaka planned all of it upon Nagumo and Ryuuen's supposed meeting.

He would require insane prediction ability to have his plan come in action, for example, the first impressive thing about the entire strategy (it is mostly a strategy btw, so nothing actually related to a lot of planning) is that Kiyotaka has never met Takuya, but still, he tries to infer Takuya's emotions from observing both Ichika and Tsukishiro's intentions, and inferred the treatment of generations after his generation (to be mentioned, without directly ever meeting any of these people), tried to set up Suzune to waste Takuya's time, to immediately have it timed with Takuya's arrival in the council. Perfectly judged that only Takuya would have the mental ability to decipher the text which he sent in the form of a love letter (he also used the love letter to get Takuya curious) and understand it, and would never be able to explain his presence in it.

Kiyotaka also filled Nagumo and Ryuuen's actions indirectly through both rumors and information filling, also irritated Takuya based on the fact that he himself never came there, judged it entirely that Takuya would cause a rampage in there, would hurt teachers, and would have an emotional breakdown.

And yes, all of this, he predicted and all of it happened just like he planned. It basically shows an insane level of profiling Kiyotaka has on his opponents and how he can set traps for them without meeting them for once (Takuya stayed for almost 7 volumes but never really had a proper meeting with Kiyotaka of the disclosure), and no, this CANNOT BE COMPARED to you planning your life steps in any way, there's just a much higher success rate, efficiency and complexity to not even classify it as such.

No real strategist in history has done anything like this btw, because having profiling of this level is unrealistic and also, you cannot really predict timings and behaviors of everyone like this.

Dax would likely dogwalk the entire thread in like 5-10 messages and put BOR allegations on everyone and quit silently lmao.


Though yes, I would agree that a staff-only thread should be made. Especially when we have this:
7MpOpzz.png

(This isn't MCH2, Aki is a popular character so it's not rare to have him as a PFP. It's a person who gave me all the right to use this message any way, though I removed the names of me and him both to prevent revelation. He is harmless though and only cares for jokes, so I don't even know how to use this but yeah, take it with a grain of salt lol.)
Click to expand...

Perfect explanation. Koji no diffing a Genius like Yagami should be a very good feat for him. The gap between him
and everyone else in the verse is just incomprehensible.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
I never actually deny that trought? I said the planning all that is atleast Genius, but tricking Yagami is not.

I not even gonna read what you said.
Click to expand...
I was mostly referring to the plan he did in the first place when I was talking about “tricking” but I should’ve probably been more clear
 
AyeZ2 said:
Perfect explanation. Koji no diffing a Genius like Yagami should be a very good feat for him. The gap between him
and everyone else in the verse is just incomprehensible.
Click to expand...
Thank you. 🙏 🗿

And agreed, though the diff is a very low diff imo. In general outsmarting however, the diff may be higher without adding much resistances.
Fezzih_007 said:
I never actually deny that trought? I said the planning all that is atleast Genius, but tricking Yagami is not.

I not even gonna read what you said.
Click to expand...
And I would completely deny that. Want to know why?

Because how Takuya got deceived comes under "Strategic Deception", meaning that if you look at it from the surface, it will look as if it is just some simple lying, but Takuya alone isn't just a single element in the entire deception setup, Kiyotaka had to take many measures just to Takuya doesn't find out about the deceit, meaning that it's much more complex than just lying or deceiving someone by words. He had to set an entire plan in motion just to not have Takuya find out.

Hard disagreement.
 
RoggerReggor said:
tried to set up Suzune to waste Takuya's time, to immediately have it timed with Takuya's arrival in the council.
Click to expand...
“I don’t know why Horikita and Ibuki were there to see him, but I’d say that too was another instance of Yagami playing with fire.”
Ayanokouji

“No, wait…perhaps that didn’t have anything to do with this. I was an outsider here, and so was Ibuki-san. Even if the two of us hadn’t been here, this sequence of events still would have played out.”
Horikita

No Horikita and Ibuki being there wasn’t a part of LL strategy and the plan would have succeeded had they not been there. They are outsiders to it. Yagami would have waited had they not been there.
RoggerReggor said:
Though yes, I would agree that a staff-only thread should be made. Especially when we have this:
Click to expand...
What’s even the point of this? It’s not like the side arguing for Genius hasn’t presented arguments. everyone has been arguing in good faith. Both sides have had their bad arguments debunked. And clearly, more people believe in G than EG.

(Also I confirm that’s not me in the photo).

Regarding a staff only thread, do we really need a 2nd thread after all this, just to decide on the rating? When all the information has already been presented and when most of the arguments have been thoroughly repeated? I understand there’s a lot of noise in this thread and unrelated tangents, but someone reading back can either ignore it or simply decide a rating based on the revised intelligence section alone.

Simply have a mod make a decision on the merits based on the information already presented. And please everyone, just wait in peace.
 
There should also probably be a Horikita downgrade thread, I don’t think she should be Genius but probably high end Gifted, but again that’s another thread in of itself


I think I’ll make a thread about that later though after this thread is finally wrapped up
 
MCH2 said:
“I don’t know why Horikita and Ibuki were there to see him, but I’d say that too was another instance of Yagami playing with fire.”
Ayanokouji

“No, wait…perhaps that didn’t have anything to do with this. I was an outsider here, and so was Ibuki-san. Even if the two of us hadn’t been here, this sequence of events still would have played out.”
Horikita

No Horikita and Ibuki being there wasn’t a part of LL strategy and the plan would have succeeded had they not been there. They are outsiders to it. Yagami would have waited had they not been there.
Click to expand...
Mis-wrote that, or should say wrote in a language which could be misinterpreted. It should have been "Tried to set Suzune in with the story." which can be confirmed from the fact that Kiyotaka also predicted Takuya's admission with playing with fire and confirmed it himself that the events would have still played out the same but just happened to get accelerated due to Suzune's presence there.

Though yes, I discussed it with Huntsman long before about this being called "Suzune's Theory Ayanokouji" and just to make it like Matsuda's Theory Near, even though both the characters happen to be clearly objecting a part of the theory themself, a topic for another day though.
MCH2 said:
What’s even the point of this? It’s not like the side arguing for Genius hasn’t presented arguments. everyone has been arguing in good faith. Both sides have had their bad arguments debunked. And clearly, more people believe in G than EG.

(Also I confirm that’s not me in the photo).

Regarding a staff only thread, do we really need a 2nd thread after all this, just to decide on the rating? When all the information has already been presented and when most of the arguments have been thoroughly repeated? I understand there’s a lot of noise in this thread and unrelated tangents, but someone reading back can either ignore it or simply decide a rating based on the revised intelligence section alone.

Simply have a mod make a decision on the merits based on the information already presented. And please everyone, just wait in peace.
Click to expand...
Not the stance, but I happen to think that more than majority of the people haven't even

The more points were acknowledged after 5-6 pages but a good part of them ignored.

Moreover, our own good part of the discussion and the points we discussed were never the point in the OP, so yeah, that was just wild than being related.

And the main point is "10 dudes coming in to make a message" rather than the thread having all the arguments/counter-arguments, which would only make the thread difficult to be read. There's a fair, or I would a major part of the slander in the thread, and it has been handled very poorly.
 
AyeZ2 said:
There should also probably be a Horikita downgrade thread, I don’t think she should be Genius but probably high end Gifted, but again that’s another thread in of itself


I think I’ll make a thread about that later though after this thread is finally wrapped up
Click to expand...
Which Horikita?
 
RoggerReggor said:
Which Horikita?
Click to expand...
Suzune. She’s much more in line with someone like Ryueen then other people who are listed as Genius like Arisu and Nagumo. Nothing in her Intelligence rating really suggests she gets past Gifted at most.

She COULD be Genius by Y3, since she obviously hasn’t hit anywhere near her full potential yet considering how Y2 V12 played out (and her potential is stated to be enormous inverse by Manabu and Kiyotaka all the way back in Y1 V7.5). It also wouldn’t make much narrative sense for her to be currently Genius considering how the whole point of the plot has been and currently is for Kiyotaka to build up his classmates abilities, leave the class, and then fight against his newly improved former class by himself to prove his father wrong on his ideals. Horikita just simply isn’t on any level to even give Kiyotaka any level of a threat, I mean, no one in the verse really is, but yeah getting beat by Ichinose 7-0 is just not a good look for a Genius rated character.
 
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