Downgrades for Polokus, The Bubble Dreamer?

[Mantidil]

Hello, this is my first post on this website. Basically, I disagree with how Polokus is presented stats-wise. I made a blog detailing why I think that if you want to read:

https://bromeliad13.blogspot.com/2019/09/are-rayman-characters-universal-part-1.html

For a quick summary, it is not stated anywhere that Polokus has created the entire universe. The evidence used on the page seems to be reading too much into plot statements and fails to take into account that it took more than just Polokus to create the entire future. I would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Absaddie]

when was it ever stated he had help with the universes creation

 

[Absaddie]

Also, here

 

[Absaddie]

The Raymanpc website also states he was talking to gods of "other worlds" implying there's other universes created by other gods anyway, I don't understand where him needing help came from to create the universe.

That blog makes sense to me.

 

[Absaddie]

Also a minor note that even Rabbids can react while being shot at massively ftl speeds and crash into the sun so hard they creat massive explosions https://youtu.be/GGO4k8Jsksk?t=229 https://youtu.be/GGO4k8Jsksk?t=348

Rayman in general really needs a revision

 

[Mantidil]

Thanks for your response. Honestly, applying the phrase "The creator of all that is and will be" to the universe is sketchy to me. I could easily also see that statement in meaning creating "all that is and will be" in the Glade of Dreams. I think we need take this statement in light of other statements and showings that appear in the series to qualify whether it could mean he created the entire universe (similarly to how we would treat databook statements for manga characters). Also, it may be a moot point, but this phrase is only found in the manual and not in the Knowledge of the World or any other in-game statements.

If I could ask, where is it ever stated that world equals universe in the Rayman series? I honestly don't see the connection. To me, the fact we've seen other gods (ex: Night god Leptys) in the Rayman series seems to show that Polokus isn't the only god that has influence in the universe

You are right about the Rabbids, though I did note at the end of the blog that Rayman characters are Multi-Solar System and MFTL (from the constellation shaking feat)

 

[Mantidil]

Also yeah, Rayman series needs revisions on this wiki.

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

Also a minor note that even Rabbids can react while being shot at massively ftl speeds and crash into the sun so hard they creat massive explosions https://youtu.be/GGO4k8Jsksk?t=229 https://youtu.be/GGO4k8Jsksk?t=348
Rayman in general really needs a revision

Hell ******* yes they do, I even added the whole magician laaunching feat from space passing and shaking a constellation feat in the calc board, Next I will apply the "Laser." Dodging feats that were listed to be much higher such as one involving the rabbids ship (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKMz34Sl09k&feature=youtu.be&t=7m28s), and one from Space Mama though its as weird looking laser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUaDsmdUQ1I&feature=youtu.be&t=1m44s).

 

[Mantidil]

Yeah the Space Mama laser is a bit weird. I definitely think the Rabbids' ship laser feat is legit though (considering it's depicted and stated to be a laser in related media)

 

[Absaddie]

Thanks for your response. Honestly, applying the phrase "The creator of all that is and will be" to the universe is sketchy to me. I could easily also see that statement in meaning creating "all that is and will be" in the Glade of Dreams. I think we need take this statement in light of other statements and showings that appear in the series to qualify whether it could mean he created the entire universe (similarly to how we would treat databook statements for manga characters). Also, it may be a moot point, but this phrase is only found in the manual and not in the Knowledge of the World or any other in-game statements.
If I could ask, where is it ever stated that world equals universe in the Rayman series? I honestly don't see the connection. To me, the fact we've seen other gods (ex: Night god Leptys) in the Rayman series seems to show that Polokus isn't the only god that has influence in the universe

You are right about the Rabbids, though I did note at the end of the blog that Rayman characters are Multi-Solar System and MFTL (from the constellation shaking feat)

This should suffice really

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

Yeah the Space Mama laser is a bit weird. I definitely think the Rabbids' ship laser feat is legit though (considering it's depicted and stated to be a laser in related media)

I hope the feat would not be hindered by GBA Graphics though.

 

[Mantidil]

Thanks for your response. Honestly, applying the phrase "The creator of all that is and will be" to the universe is sketchy to me. I could easily also see that statement in meaning creating "all that is and will be" in the Glade of Dreams. I think we need take this statement in light of other statements and showings that appear in the series to qualify whether it could mean he created the entire universe (similarly to how we would treat databook statements for manga characters). Also, it may be a moot point, but this phrase is only found in the manual and not in the Knowledge of the World or any other in-game statements.
If I could ask, where is it ever stated that world equals universe in the Rayman series? I honestly don't see the connection. To me, the fact we've seen other gods (ex: Night god Leptys) in the Rayman series seems to show that Polokus isn't the only god that has influence in the universe

You are right about the Rabbids, though I did note at the end of the blog that Rayman characters are Multi-Solar System and MFTL (from the constellation shaking feat)

This should suffice really

I still don't see how world=universe. In real life, I could say both "Gravity affects all mass in the universe" and "Gravity affects all mass in the world" and I wouldn't be saying world=universe for example.

 

[Mantidil]

Plus the Lums collectively are definitely universal, but the Lums in the Glade aren't all the Lums in the universe. I don't know why we should scale Polokus to all the Lums in the universe when he says he's weakened when he leaves the planet's surface because he is away from Lums.

 

[Absaddie]

That just makes his being the creator of all things more valid with talk of the universe, lums are reffered to as primordial beings and there's no mention of all lums being needed to create him, he's superior to them regardless. That should make him immeasurable too actually.

It's as simple as the lums created him and so he then created all things, likely including other types of lums.

 

[Mantidil]

That just makes his being the creator of all things more valid with talk of the universe, lums are reffered to as primordial beings and there's no mention of all lums being needed to create him, he's superior to them regardless. That should make him immeasurable too actually.
It's as simple as the lums created him and so he then created all things, likely including other types of lums.

Is he really superior to Lums though?

Plus talk of the universe does not disprove the idea that other gods had a hand in creating the universe. In fact, why would other gods take an interest in Rayman if they were from other universes? We know that Razorbeard's actions were affecting numerous planets in Rayman's universe so it would make sense if Rayman was the "chosen one of the gods" because of that.

 

[Absaddie]

The other gods are not mentioned in having a hand in creating the universe Rayman inhabits, they are mentioned in creating other worlds, aside from the one Polokus made.

Infact, them having a combined feat of making the future sounds like it could be a combined effort for a potential multiversal feat if anything.

 

[Mantidil]

The other gods are not mentioned in having a hand in creating the universe Rayman inhabits, they are mentioned in creating other worlds, aside from the one Polokus made.
Infact, them having a combined feat of making the future sounds like it could be a combined effort for a potential multiversal feat if anything.

I don't understand how you are getting worlds=universes, sorry. The Knowledge of the World mostly gives details of what Polokus did to Rayman's planet not the universe (mainly creating all of its inhabitants); it doesn't say 'and then he created the stars' or anything like that. When it does say something that could be potentially universal (or multiversal) with creating the future it said he needed other gods' help. Plus the word 'universe' is only stated once and it doesn't link it to Polokus (unless you want to count "universal knowledge"). Also, multiple gods were shown to be in Rayman's universe across the series , so why should we assume the Knowledge of the World is referring to a multiverse?

 

[Mantidil]

The closest thing I see that links worlds to universes is the fact that the Lum's knowledge is known as "The Knowledge of the World" and then it goes on to refer to this knowledge as "universal knowledge" but then it comes down to how you interpret the text. I don't think we have enough evidence to definitively say worlds=universes, especially since the series doesn't really go into the gods' relationship to each other all that much.

 

[Absaddie]

It doesn't mention specifically the planet in any sense. There are also creatures that don't live on the earth as shown in Legends.

"Creator of all and all that there will be" already implies its on a universal scale, that and he helped with the invention of time and the dreaming up of the future along with the other gods only help its case.

 

[Mantidil]

It doesn't mention specifically the planet in any sense. There are also creatures that don't live on the earth as shown in Legends.
"Creator of all and all that there will be" already implies its on a universal scale, that and he helped with the invention of time and the dreaming up of the future along with the other gods only help its case.

You're correct that the planet isn't mentioned in any sense, but it does seem to only mention creatures found on Rayman's planet when it talks about those created by Polokus. Bringing other universes in the argument seems a bit hasty to me especially since it the series never seems to bring up other universes, but it does acknowledge other planets (such as Earth in the Raving Rabbids games) and other gods in the same universe. A Rayman multiverse is based entirely on the premise that 'world' means 'universe' in the Knowledge of the World which I will concede is possible.

We seem to be arguing in circles though. I would bring up the definition of the word 'World' but there are many definitions it seems which makes this difficult: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/world .

 

[Absaddie]

Probably because there's no need to mention anything beyond Rayman's planet because you aren't likely to encounter anything beyond it tbh.

 

[Mantidil]

Probably because there's no need to mention anything beyond Rayman's planet because you aren't likely to encounter anything beyond it tbh.

What about Razorbeard and the Robo-Pirates?

 

[Absaddie]

Well it does say he created all creatures

You know what, let me look into the French version of the page since Rayman is of French origin

 

[Tonygameman]

Hell ******* yes they do, I even added the whole magician laaunching feat from space passing and shaking a constellation feat in the calc board,

Well, I'm actually trying to think about sharing my calculation of that feat onto a blog (afraid you guys wouldn't approve it).

 

[Absaddie]

I'd approve bro. Rabbids already have something insane that's still below that anyway. This is also from a Legends era Rayman who still isn't close to his peak yet as he gets given 'maximum power' from Polokus and then goes on to fight the Knaaren's champion (a race of beings already known for being nigh invincible) who was then gifted the power of their own worshipped deity.

 

[Tonygameman]

I'd approve bro. Rabbids already have something insane that's still below that anyway. This is also from a Legends era Rayman who still isn't close to his peak yet as he gets given 'maximum power' from Polokus and then goes on to fight the Knaaren's champion (a race of beings already known for being nigh invincible) who was then gifted the power of their own worshipped deity.

Just put on a evaluation board and waiting to get other users for a same mood (at least I tried).

 

[Mantidil]

I don't know enough about calcs to comment whether that's accurate or not. But I'd approve also, if people think its legit.

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

Hell ******* yes they do, I even added the whole magician laaunching feat from space passing and shaking a constellation feat in the calc board,

Well, I'm actually trying to think about sharing my calculation of that feat onto a blog (afraid you guys wouldn't approve it).

Actually in the calc board you might want to hurry up and check it out before it gets deleted as derailment is probably sure to happen but someone did say that this feat doesn't work apparently and the "Shaking a constellation." is just indicating that the Teensie is just landing on some planet/moon rather the shaking a constellation whole don't know about you... But the speed should be legit.

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

I'd approve bro. Rabbids already have something insane that's still below that anyway. This is also from a Legends era Rayman who still isn't close to his peak yet as he gets given 'maximum power' from Polokus and then goes on to fight the Knaaren's champion (a race of beings already known for being nigh invincible) who was then gifted the power of their own worshipped deity.

Thats some good info right there.

 

[Mantidil]

Another thing I would like to see addressed is if Polokus is universal, why wasn't he able to destroy Razorbeard's ship in the atmosphere in Rayman 2? He straight up states he needs the Lums in the Glade to maintain his power. I realize he was able to grant Rayman max energy to be able to defeat Razorbeard, but the idea that he needed Rayman's help at all strikes me as odd.

 

[Absaddie]

Another thing I would like to see addressed is if Polokus is universal, why wasn't he able to destroy Razorbeard's ship in the atmosphere in Rayman 2? He straight up states he needs the Lums in the Glade to maintain his power. I realize he was able to grant Rayman max energy to be able to defeat Razorbeard, but the idea that he needed Rayman's help at all strikes me as odd.

Considering all the other stuff in the verse, you could just say it's a very "powerful ship" and be done with it.

Or you could go along with the fact he said he couldn't effect things in the air. A bit inconsistent with him later floating around in Origins but he also has a different design there so it could just be a simple retcon and Origins is well over a hundred years before 2 could even be a thing. Rayman's not the most consistent with its lore.

 

[Mantidil]

Another thing I would like to see addressed is if Polokus is universal, why wasn't he able to destroy Razorbeard's ship in the atmosphere in Rayman 2? He straight up states he needs the Lums in the Glade to maintain his power. I realize he was able to grant Rayman max energy to be able to defeat Razorbeard, but the idea that he needed Rayman's help at all strikes me as odd.

Considering all the other stuff in the verse, you could just say it's a very "powerful ship" and be done with it.
Or you could go along with the fact he said he couldn't effect things in the air. A bit inconsistent with him later floating around in Origins but he also has a different design there so it could just be a simple retcon and Origins is well over a hundred years before 2 could even be a thing. Rayman's not the most consistent with its lore.

That brings up a few more questions. Like, is Rayman above universal for surviving the explosion that blew up the ship if that's true? Also, where is it stated Origins is before Rayman 2? Plus, technically Polokus was able to teleport Rayman onto the ship showing he can still perform some of his abilities in the sky.

You are correct about Rayman being inconsistent, though these statements and occurences do make me suspicious of universal Polokus.

 

[Absaddie]

The fact Origins is Rayman's origin story makes it the earliest point in the timeline.

 

[Genericstickman]

Doesn't Origins contradict what was said previously?

 

[Mantidil]

The fact Origins is Rayman's origin story makes it the earliest point in the timeline.

Mister Dark is referenced later in Rayman Origins. Also, the Magician (who was a character in the original game) is shown to be evil as a twist and it would be weird if they went back to trusting him in Rayman 1. It is true it was meant to be Rayman's origin story at first, but what I can see on Raywiki , that concept was scrapped by the creators.

 

[Absaddie]

The fact Origins is Rayman's origin story makes it the earliest point in the timeline.

Mister Dark is referenced later in Rayman Origins. Also, the Magician (who was a character in the original game) is shown to be evil as a twist and it would be weird if they went back to trusting him in Rayman 1. It is true it was meant to be Rayman's origin story at first, but what I can see on [[1]], that concept was scrapped by the creators.

That doesn't link to anything but I can guess it's to the Origins page, but you can also easily presume he existed long ago anyway. Rayman is still alive after sleeping for a century in Legends so no one really abides by typical lifespans in that universe.

What is this about a magician in Rayman 1 though?

 

[Mantidil]

The Magician is This guy. He was retconned to be a Teensie instead of a Rayperson. Also I was linking to This page

 

[Tonygameman]

Alright, KLOL506 has calced that constellation feat as High 4-C/Large Star level on this comment (I'll pit Rayman against Mario, but the latter will likely wi).

 

[Mantidil]

Awesome. Not Multi-Solar System like I hoped but it's cool that feat is finally calced.

 

[Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E]

Alright, KLOL506 has calced that constellation feat as High 4-C/Large Star level on this comment (I'll pit Rayman against Mario, but the latter will likely wi).

That's still awesome, Wonder how he will fare with Goku.