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Doom Eternal Revision Thread Part 4

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Firestorm808

Firestorm808

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Continued from https://vsbattles.com/threads/doom-eternal-revision-thread-part-3.81267/

vsbattles.fandom.com

Doom Feats

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Completed

Checklist:
  1. Classic Doomguy/Night Sentinels
  2. Demons
    1. General Abilities
    2. Fodder
    3. Heavy
    4. Super Heavy
    5. Bosses
  3. Doom Slayer
  4. Father, Seraphim, and Maykrs
  5. Dark Lord
 
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I'm still sorting out what's already been added to profiles since we left off.
 
Btw, is it just me or do the Maruaders look like they have Praetor Armor on in certain spots? Not sure if it actually is, it just looks like it.
 
Eyy was waiting for the Doom stuff to show up again.

Do we remember what we left the last thread on? We should probably just pick up where we left off.
 
Skimmed the previous thread:

I need to read the list more thoroughly later, but I would like Acausality Type 1 added, based on codex entries:

Within the infinite conscious-matrix of the all-seeing Maykr God-mind, there exists every potentiality - every predictive variable of possible future timeline - each one known to the Maykr collective with omniscient, inextricable clarity. The God-mind surveys these timelines, watching them form and expand exponentially like fractal patterns in the fabric of existence. Among these infinite possibilities, only one constant appears among them, unchanged by the flowing data of endless variability - that of the prophesied Destroyer - the one who would bring about the destruction of the Maykrs.

As the Argenta traversed the stars with gleaming war-fleets the Khan of the Maykrs approached King Roan on his throne.

He sensed his God restless by her disquiet manner. The King and Khan spoke, and the God revealed she had foreseen a schism in the blood of Argenta. A test would be required to identify its host among us. She spoke of a holy rite to be performed on the strongest of our warriors; only those that proved worthy would be tested, for the impurity could reside in only the most resilient of our legion. The Divinity Machine, a great tribute by Maykr Scolaris, would help us to cleanse any impurities from our flock, ensuring our continued prosperity in this world and in the Maykr realm that awaited in the afterlife. The Malicious One, if not exhumed from our ranks, would jeopardize our safe passage to the heavenly realm of Urdak.

The Dark One was not amongst them yet, nor would he be for many generations. Only the Mother God, through divination and Maykr-sight, would determine when he stood before them. The Maykrs were truth, and only their unclouded eyes could find the one who was marked. The prophecy of the unholy one was written, but through the ages the warning grew faint until only the Khan Maykr herself and the high priests of the Order Deag still whispered of He that would one day come to threaten their way of light.

By using high-level precognition and time/dimensional travel, it was impossible to affect the Doom Slayer. Furthermore, omniscience through infinite timelines was incapable of figuring out the identity of the Doom Slayer, so they used the Divinity Machine on the strongest Sentinels to test for him.
 
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I haven't fully seen through all of the new game, but I can agree with the classic Doomguy stuff
 
I played Eternal but am not caught up with DOOM on VSBW for personal reasons, but I suppose I can set those aside to offer my opinions. To do that, though, I'll need info. Keep in mind that I binged through the game the week it came out and haven't touched it since.

Why are some bosses scaled to 8-A while others are not?

Why is Icon of Sin scaled to storms? Generally these sorts of feats aren't accepted without some specific reason. I'm fine with Accelerated Development (since this seems like it wasn't accepted yet, which is weird given it's pretty much plainly stated), dunno where Space-Time Manip comes from.

I'm fine with Dimensional Travel and Time Travel for Khan Maykr, where does Cosmic Awareness come from and to what extent are you implying she has it?

I don't think we should consider cheat codes canon? Unless I'm missing something, those are purely mechanical.

I think scaling Doomguy in general to energy he absorbs is weird but I assume this is a majority vote already.

Icon of Sin's reality-warping probably either just has short-range or loses potency over range, e.g., it affected people closer to it moreso than people far away. I think making it lower ranged (couple hundred meters, probably) is the more conservative option.
 
@Mr._Bambu

Basically, if a demon can tank a BFG shot, it gets 8-A (some bosses are fought without access to BFG like the gladiator arena flashback). The BFG gets 8-A due to being the most powerful designed by the UAC, and thus more powerful than the 2 Megakelvin laser they tried to damage the Praetor Suit with.

The storm generated by the Icon of Sin's presence is assumed to be comparable to his energy attacks. Icon of Sin wraps reality, and if he stays too long, space-time will collapse and a black hole that will drag the entire dimension into hell will be created.
It would be more accurate for the ability to be something like: Limited Reality Warping (His presence warps reality and will eventually collapse space-time).

Within the infinite conscious-matrix of the all-seeing Maykr God-mind, there exists every potentiality - every predictive variable of possible future timeline - each one known to the Maykr collective with omniscient, inextricable clarity. The God-mind surveys these timelines, watching them form and expand exponentially like fractal patterns in the fabric of existence. Among these infinite possibilities, only one constant appears among them, unchanged by the flowing data of endless variability - that of the prophesied Destroyer - the one who would bring about the destruction of the Maykrs.

It is headcanon among some here that cheat codes are part of the blessings Doom Slayers had, but the main argument is that cheat codes are physically picked up (as floppy disks) like collectables, and collectables are canon and displayed in the Fortress of Doom.
 
I'm aware of where the BFG got 8-A from, no problem there. Can the Marauder really not take a BFG shot? Huh. I still think it's goofy to consider him lower in AP, given that he was a huge threat to Hayden's facility, and we're effectively giving people AP for their durability, but I digress.

Why is it assumed to be like that? I'm aware of his black hole, does it explicitly mention space-time shenanigans?

Regarding Maykr stuff, that's fine, then, though a source wouldn't go amiss if you wouldn't mind.

I find both of these arguments to be incredibly weak and thus cannot offer support for cheat codes being used.
 
Yep, the Marauder gets one-shot by the BFG, but can block the shots if they have their shields up. Unfortunately, there aren't mid-tier feats for demons, so the Marauder is upscaling heavily.

Much of the lore comes from the codex, which you can read here:
doom.fandom.com

Codex

The Codex is a series of entries for background information in Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal. Environments Database UAC Personnel Weapons Monsters Artifacts Codex/Story of Earth Codex/Story of the Sentinels Codex/Story of Hell Codex/Story of the Maykrs Codex/Book of the Seraphs Codex/Demons...
doom.fandom.com doom.fandom.com

A codex entry specifically mentions that the Icon of Sin will collapse spacetime:
The Icon's presence warps reality, damaging the intricate order of our dimension merely by existing within it. If the Icon is allowed to remain unchecked it would lead to the total devastation of Earth, followed by a breakdown of spacetime around the planet. The resulting black hole will eventually drag our entire universe down, casting it into the mouth of Hell as a conquest to be absorbed by the Dark Realm.

The codex entry the Maykr quote comes from can be found here.

Also, I am against Titans getting immortality, and for the Crucible getting immortality negation.

The Titans weren't described as immortal, only that they are too durable for conventional weapons to have an effect.
The Thrall, possessing superior resilience, proved indestructible by conventional weapons, thwarting all attempts by Armored Response Coalition defensive forces.

However we know that the Doom Slayer killed at least one titan with conventional weapons and his bare hands, and that the Night Sentinels regularly kill Titans with their Atlan mechs.
This is different from the Crucible which does not kill Titans permanently; the Titans will wake up if the Crucible's blade is removed. It was said that the Crucible was the only weapon reportedly strong enough to kill Titans, but this has been proven wrong with the Atlan mechs.

So a consistent explanation to the lore is: Titans require an immense amount of fire power to kill, but the 'easy way' to defeat them is to stab them with the Crucible's blade which will incap them as long as the blade sticks.
So 'immortality negation' should get replaced with Sealing for the Crucible.
 
This first bit still doesn't explain why you're using durability to justify AP.

I didn't read much of the codex admittedly, skimmed through a fair swathe of it since... well it's DOOM. I didn't come to DOOM for the words. Space-time manip seems fine then.

Your analysis of titan immortality makes sense- so that's a no from me as well. I don't know if that counts as Sealing though- perhaps more accurately Status Effect Inducement or Sleep Manipulation, assuming it just renders them dormant.
 
Bambu is right about eating energy out of a battery thing and I agree with that feat being scrapped. I never understood why I agreed with it in the first place. Terminators aren't Tier 7 for having a Hydrogen Bomb in their chest to fuel them. Same with having a Perpetual motion machine in your chest with an infinite pool of energy to draw from not being High 3-A. It's not evidence of someone being able to take a Kiloton punch to the face.

BFG is 100% fine for AP, but actually; the heat revisions Dargoo and I still have a lot to discuss eventually, might potentially downgrade the durability of some of the bosses depending on the outcome. It's agreed that just because someone can survive fevers; which is a 9-B thermal energy increase across the human body. That's not 9-B levels of blunt force trauma though. But that will be discussed in a lot more detail much later.

IIRC, the storm feat was formed using Argent energy, which various demons also use for striking strength purposes. But there are controversies surrounding that.

The game mechanics kind of complicate things also. And I also agree that canonizing cheat codes is super iffy.

Also, the speed of the plasma seems iffy. Just because the particles in matter move at X speed, you don't assume the body of matter does. Otherwise, every stream or flow of water will be assumed Supersonic just because that's how fast water molecules move in room temperatures. Plasma has extremely variable speed IRL; Flamethrowers don't move at Sub-Relativistic speeds, not even close.

There's other things to address, but this is all I can dump for now.
 
Yes

Because he can absorb Argent Energy through the Praetor armor

It's not implying he can just tank Tier 7 energy

Also the Icon of Sin should be nerfed

The damn thing is already accepted as having ED beyond it's physicals with the overtime world wiping so why does it scale physically to the storms it creates?

Also 8-A for Slayer is a bit... dodgy

The actual calculation used assumes two things

1) The proportions of the Titan are the same as the Cyberdemon despite the fact we see Titans in Eternal which look different

2) It seems to assume that's the energy of a full body slam from the Titan which isn't very likely to be what the Slayer tanked at all

This ignores stuff with the Crucible supposedly nullifying durability but we don't know if that's legit
 
The Titan should be recalculated using the GPE formula DontTalkDT proposed, and Doomslayer can still wrestle with Titans, so he scales from the GPE at least. Crucible negates Immortality, not durability. There's a difference. Not to mention, Doomslayer is still tougher than the Crucible's AP, so he'd scale regardless. The Catapult feat is still 8-A to Low 7-C and very solid though.
 
The catapult would only scale to Eternal Doomslayer not 2016 Slayer

Who is currently the one we scale to 8-A
 
I've had a titan calc that's pretty much ready for release for a while now but I couldn't upload it due to the forum move. It'll be much more accurate than what we have since I've got hold of the model from the game, and have an actual volume of the model.
I'll get to uploading it when I can.
 
Just over 700 tons of tnt.
If I can get a decent video for speed the KE would likely get into Low 7-C tho.
 
I know. I just need to actually compile it into a blog. I've got everything I need for it now so i'll be uploading later today.
 
Titan Strength Calc:

Generic Stone Density = 1.602 g/cm^3

Castle Height = 203.4 m

Castle Width and Length = 193.4 m

Stone % of Castle Rectangular Prism Volume = 10, 20, 30%

Castle Lift Height = 325.4 m

10% PE = mgh = (1.602*100^3*193.4^2*203.4*0.25) * 9.8 * 325.4 = 3.88e+15 J = High 7-C

20% PE = 7.77e+15 J = Low 7-B

30% PE = 1.16e+16 J = Low 7-B

Hell Castles would likely be made of common igneous rock like Basalt or Granite with densities of 2.9 g/cm^3 and 2.75 g/cm^3 respectively
 
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Oh yeah the building they carry...
However, buildings on average are closer to 80%, 85% and 90% hollow. It's probably safer to use your low end.
I'll add it to the blog if u want.

Edit: Are you sure that's right? I went through the calc again and got around 900 tons on the 10% end.
 
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Should the BFG Upscale from the catapult, it’s a literally stated that the BFG 9000 is the strongest weapon the UAC has created.
 
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If there is evidence that the UAC is the company that designed the Ion Catapult, then probably.

EDIT:
VEGA: The Ion Catapult is designed to use only approved UAC ammunition. Doom Slayer:

If it fits with the scaling then I support.
 
I'm unsure about the Ion Catapult scaling given BFG and Catapult are two widely different categories. And Ion Catapult isn't entirely considered a weapon more or less a space travel mechanism.
 
Also

The Ion Catapult was from Eternal when the UAC militarized to combat Hell

We see from their modifications with the BFG10000 that they have been pushing to create more powerful weapons so it’s not entirely possible the 9000 was the most powerful weapon but hasn’t since been replaced

Which imo makes sense
 
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So the DLC release trailer was supposed to drop tommorow but was accidently released early.


So any plans on how to go through the CRT? Do we just wait and gather new lore from the DLC?
 
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