- 2,252
- 385
The preface says it really. I imagine this is a pretty obvious point of contention and tbh I'd just be happy if someone commented and gave me some context.
Mind Manipulation is defined by this in it's page on the wiki: Mind Manipulation is the ability to manipulate and control the minds of others. It is associated with Telepathy and Mind Reading, and these powers are often possessed by the same characters. While basic mind manipulation can be used for psychic suggestion and simple manipulation, higher-level users of this ability can completely control others, drive them insane, plague them with illusions and hallucinations, and even rip their minds from their bodies.
Soul manipulation is defined as: Soul Manipulation is the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications. These appear to be quite similar fundamentally, with the distinguishing feature of one referring to the "mind" and the "soul".
But what is a mind as opposed to a soul? Well, in terms of modern philosophy the mind is most recognisably used by Descartes, who perceived the mind as kind of being the consciousness, even intellect and imaginative function of which basic biology cannot account for. The mind works by taking in inputs from the world around it, acquired through messages supplied in the cerebral cortex and then consciously comprehends them and creates thought based on them it is immaterial and that while provides imagination can not actually have such imagination comprehend unknown concepts that can't be derived via entailment like colour, for instance, this including itself. It is what is what we believe to be the agent, not a quality like ability, stature, number of limbs, etc. We do not necessarily "have a mind" but are a mind. In fact one thing quite interesting about it if we look at Descartes' meditations is that in some interpretations it can be considered "more real" than the body itself (although I'm not incredibly sure about this part since it has been a good amount of years since I read it and I can't really remember so much of it) considering how it ties to epistemology. And how, in a way, the idea of the mind is a sequitur from the "reality as an hallucination" idea (though it's up for discussion if this ties into the tiering system in anyway imaginable). Similarly, the soul is also a kind of immaterial structure that works as the agent to a physical form, and if we look at philosophers before Descartes they are kinds the same thing in principle, with Descartes possessing the epistemological distinction. Despite this, it is present in theological thinking to not present the soul as directly immaterial, but actually just a substitute for a brain in some respects (such as in some Shintoism, where Kappa fecking reach up people's asses and steal their shirikodoma and that weird, infamous farting concept in Pythagorian philosophy). Furthermore, in many uses of "mind manipulation" as categorised in VBW it actually has to do with manipulating electrical impulses in neurones, or manipulating weaknesses within the psychology to control thoughts like in hypnosis. When it comes to this idea the verse will deem Cartesian schools of thought as conjecture (which it debatably is, even somewhat pointed out by Descartes himself on numerous occasions) and prefer an entirely physicalist approach to existence.
So, in validating the differences between soul and mind manipulation we also validate the idea that the "mind" as usually consistently shown to be Cartesian in many verses should not be a baseline for others. Additionally there should be a greater look at types of mind and soul manipulation, and what verses qualify without arbitrarily presuming a baseline, or making an unspecific distinction that seems to be being applied by using the dualism of "natural" and "supernatural" (since brain control is somewhat different from psychological manipulation)- which I believe should follow a format similar to Conceptual Manipulation, by listing different schools of thought and then assigning verses to them.
Type 1 Mind Manipulation: these affect minds that are Cartesian in nature, immaterial and controlling of the body as well as the source of consciousness. They can not be visualised by nature via living epistemologically separate from the physical world presented to us.
Type 2 Mind manipulation: Almost all verses and characters possessing of a biology can be affected by these types of mind manipulation without resistance, as they hijack the cerebral cortex
Type 3 Mind Manipulation: These hack into someone's consciousness via psychological manipulation somewhat akin to Social Influencing, though using more subliminal and seemingly "supernatural" methods of control
Type 4 Mind Manipulation: These target unspecific consciousnesses via unspecific means, being capable of controlling those without human physiology or conventional, cartesian minds
The same applies to soul manipulation, although with only two categories- one assigned for the non physical (which is the same as usual mind manipulation but without the visualisation distinction) andthe physical like the shirikodoma or whatever
(I haven't exactly formatted myself well here (in both presentation and organisation of ideas), neither have I used very good grammar since I've been preoccupied for the whole day doing something else whilst quickly trying to rush through this so I'm quite sorry about that if you have enough mental constitution to force yourself through this mainly mindless- hyuk hyuk- blabbering.)
Mind Manipulation is defined by this in it's page on the wiki: Mind Manipulation is the ability to manipulate and control the minds of others. It is associated with Telepathy and Mind Reading, and these powers are often possessed by the same characters. While basic mind manipulation can be used for psychic suggestion and simple manipulation, higher-level users of this ability can completely control others, drive them insane, plague them with illusions and hallucinations, and even rip their minds from their bodies.
Soul manipulation is defined as: Soul Manipulation is the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications. These appear to be quite similar fundamentally, with the distinguishing feature of one referring to the "mind" and the "soul".
But what is a mind as opposed to a soul? Well, in terms of modern philosophy the mind is most recognisably used by Descartes, who perceived the mind as kind of being the consciousness, even intellect and imaginative function of which basic biology cannot account for. The mind works by taking in inputs from the world around it, acquired through messages supplied in the cerebral cortex and then consciously comprehends them and creates thought based on them it is immaterial and that while provides imagination can not actually have such imagination comprehend unknown concepts that can't be derived via entailment like colour, for instance, this including itself. It is what is what we believe to be the agent, not a quality like ability, stature, number of limbs, etc. We do not necessarily "have a mind" but are a mind. In fact one thing quite interesting about it if we look at Descartes' meditations is that in some interpretations it can be considered "more real" than the body itself (although I'm not incredibly sure about this part since it has been a good amount of years since I read it and I can't really remember so much of it) considering how it ties to epistemology. And how, in a way, the idea of the mind is a sequitur from the "reality as an hallucination" idea (though it's up for discussion if this ties into the tiering system in anyway imaginable). Similarly, the soul is also a kind of immaterial structure that works as the agent to a physical form, and if we look at philosophers before Descartes they are kinds the same thing in principle, with Descartes possessing the epistemological distinction. Despite this, it is present in theological thinking to not present the soul as directly immaterial, but actually just a substitute for a brain in some respects (such as in some Shintoism, where Kappa fecking reach up people's asses and steal their shirikodoma and that weird, infamous farting concept in Pythagorian philosophy). Furthermore, in many uses of "mind manipulation" as categorised in VBW it actually has to do with manipulating electrical impulses in neurones, or manipulating weaknesses within the psychology to control thoughts like in hypnosis. When it comes to this idea the verse will deem Cartesian schools of thought as conjecture (which it debatably is, even somewhat pointed out by Descartes himself on numerous occasions) and prefer an entirely physicalist approach to existence.
So, in validating the differences between soul and mind manipulation we also validate the idea that the "mind" as usually consistently shown to be Cartesian in many verses should not be a baseline for others. Additionally there should be a greater look at types of mind and soul manipulation, and what verses qualify without arbitrarily presuming a baseline, or making an unspecific distinction that seems to be being applied by using the dualism of "natural" and "supernatural" (since brain control is somewhat different from psychological manipulation)- which I believe should follow a format similar to Conceptual Manipulation, by listing different schools of thought and then assigning verses to them.
Type 1 Mind Manipulation: these affect minds that are Cartesian in nature, immaterial and controlling of the body as well as the source of consciousness. They can not be visualised by nature via living epistemologically separate from the physical world presented to us.
Type 2 Mind manipulation: Almost all verses and characters possessing of a biology can be affected by these types of mind manipulation without resistance, as they hijack the cerebral cortex
Type 3 Mind Manipulation: These hack into someone's consciousness via psychological manipulation somewhat akin to Social Influencing, though using more subliminal and seemingly "supernatural" methods of control
Type 4 Mind Manipulation: These target unspecific consciousnesses via unspecific means, being capable of controlling those without human physiology or conventional, cartesian minds
The same applies to soul manipulation, although with only two categories- one assigned for the non physical (which is the same as usual mind manipulation but without the visualisation distinction) andthe physical like the shirikodoma or whatever
(I haven't exactly formatted myself well here (in both presentation and organisation of ideas), neither have I used very good grammar since I've been preoccupied for the whole day doing something else whilst quickly trying to rush through this so I'm quite sorry about that if you have enough mental constitution to force yourself through this mainly mindless- hyuk hyuk- blabbering.)
