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Doflamingo vs Acnologia
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
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-Iwandesu
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And all this time everyone thought Doflamingo was faster...Acnologia blitzes lol
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iirc, this wiki accepted the mid-end of that calculation, which is like mach 400Melzalgald said:
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Acnologia's accepted feat is Mach 400, which isn't a low end calc.
Doflamingo's accepted LOW END calc is 637. He is likely to be much higher.
@Melzal Doflamingo IS faster
Doflamingo's accepted LOW END calc is 637. He is likely to be much higher.
@Melzal Doflamingo IS faster
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Dragons high end speed calc is 1200 Mach. Although it is not accpted. Also, Acno is much stronger than them. Igneel doesn't even have all of his power and he is way above any of the other dragons, besides Acnologia. Oh, and Acno is the reason behind them being much weaker than original and travelling to the future in hopes of somehow beating him. And they failed miserably at that. Acnologia didn't go all out and still butchered Igneel.Hfhfdgdg said:
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Then his arrogance would be his downfall since he was stupid enough to allow Igneel to damage him to such a severe degree.
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- see's FT manga 470* huh... Acnologia is possibly going to be Island level via powerscaling from human form to Dragon form which is going to be interesting. Powerscaling shouldn't be a factor, though, but it is very likely he will be at least low end 6-C in Dragon Form after this chapter.
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You saw it too, huh? Yeah, Acnologia will get new feats REALLY soon. Maybe Acno, if we scale him to Brandish will be at least 6C in human form, since he is WAY above her.Hfhfdgdg said:
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Brandish can only change the size of objects and people. Her power isn't of a 6-C DC, but simply because she reduced a island to the size of a rock in less than a second, she was placed 6-C. Remember, Cana one shot her with a karate chop. She'd likely be 8-C physically.
Still, Acnologia is VERY LIKELY to be 6-C since some calcs in his dragon form with his breath attack suggest that he is at least High 7-A and likely low end 6-C
Still, Acnologia is VERY LIKELY to be 6-C since some calcs in his dragon form with his breath attack suggest that he is at least High 7-A and likely low end 6-C
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Also, oh shit... the calculators suggest that Doflamingo and Luffy are going to be downgraded to City Level with a new KKG calc. I highly doubt they both would be that low considering both of their previous casual feats being City Level.
edit: nevermind -- the calc is currently being attacked (especially by me) and I'm trying so hard to get the calculator to look for a different time frame, etc... Doflamingo and Luffy both better be high 7-A by the end of this debate xD
edit: nevermind -- the calc is currently being attacked (especially by me) and I'm trying so hard to get the calculator to look for a different time frame, etc... Doflamingo and Luffy both better be high 7-A by the end of this debate xD
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Who said that the accepted mid end for 5 dragons + Acnologia calc is accepted at mach 400?
That's quite the assumption.
It's easy to do math to find out the actual mid end, high end is 1200, low end is 252.
http://www.alcula.com/calculators/statistics/median/
Insert the numbers there. "726." That's the actual mid end.
Which is higher than Doflamingo's. Also saying that Doflamingo's mach 637 was a low end is also wrong, there's just no way to get another end.
As for the KKG calc it's wrong because:
1. This is a calc of a punch 2. Dofla got hit by this punch head o 3. the Kinetic Energy of this punch is being calculated based on how far Dofla's body moved after being hit by said punch The higher the energy the faster Dofla is moving the higher the energy the faster Dofla is moving the higher the energy the faster Dofla is moving, etc. You can choose the numbers yourself.
it's an infinite loop because the calc is defining a variable essentially by itself. So you can't use KE basically.
That's quite the assumption.
It's easy to do math to find out the actual mid end, high end is 1200, low end is 252.
http://www.alcula.com/calculators/statistics/median/
Insert the numbers there. "726." That's the actual mid end.
Which is higher than Doflamingo's. Also saying that Doflamingo's mach 637 was a low end is also wrong, there's just no way to get another end.
As for the KKG calc it's wrong because:
1. This is a calc of a punch 2. Dofla got hit by this punch head o 3. the Kinetic Energy of this punch is being calculated based on how far Dofla's body moved after being hit by said punch The higher the energy the faster Dofla is moving the higher the energy the faster Dofla is moving the higher the energy the faster Dofla is moving, etc. You can choose the numbers yourself.
it's an infinite loop because the calc is defining a variable essentially by itself. So you can't use KE basically.
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Which KKG calc? New or Old (both are inaccurate either way)?
I'm saying that Acnologia's accepted speed as of now is Mach 400. It is obviously going to change in the future and he might be MHS+ (though that would require Natsu to have a severe speed boost since he is only border-line H+ and HH). That's the accepted mid-end (using calcs with numbers between the low end and high end) until further feats. He may be slower but he may be even faster
Doflamingo's Mach 637 speed was calculated via low end numbers which means that his speed at the bare minimum is Mach 637. He is likely FAR faster which is why this wiki has him placed at being "at least MHS".
Doflamingo's page is currently down so I am scared that he is being downgraded due to the new KKG calc which is still hiding a few outliers including the time frame and such.
I'm saying that Acnologia's accepted speed as of now is Mach 400. It is obviously going to change in the future and he might be MHS+ (though that would require Natsu to have a severe speed boost since he is only border-line H+ and HH). That's the accepted mid-end (using calcs with numbers between the low end and high end) until further feats. He may be slower but he may be even faster
Doflamingo's Mach 637 speed was calculated via low end numbers which means that his speed at the bare minimum is Mach 637. He is likely FAR faster which is why this wiki has him placed at being "at least MHS".
Doflamingo's page is currently down so I am scared that he is being downgraded due to the new KKG calc which is still hiding a few outliers including the time frame and such.
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But who said that the accepted speed is Mach 400? That doesn't make any sense at all...
How was Doflamingo's speed calculated via low end numbers?
You're not making any sense right now...
The mid end is the middle value of the lowest and highest number. The mid end can also be found using math (finding the median).
There is not always a low/high end in calculations if everything is exact and doesn't need assumptions such as a timeframe, if there was a possible high end in the Doflamingo calc it would have been done.
How was Doflamingo's speed calculated via low end numbers?
You're not making any sense right now...
The mid end is the middle value of the lowest and highest number. The mid end can also be found using math (finding the median).
There is not always a low/high end in calculations if everything is exact and doesn't need assumptions such as a timeframe, if there was a possible high end in the Doflamingo calc it would have been done.
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Acnologia.
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So basically my vote goes to Acnologia, here's why:
Acnologia has shown a wide range of feats in the manga now. All of them are clear god tier feats that can probably not be done in FT by anyone else.
1. Killed Igneel, the father of Natsu, and one of the strongest dragons
2. Half-Killed all of the dragons 400 years ago
3. Has a human and dragon form he can switch between
4. One-shotted God Serena who stomped the 4 gods of Ishgar
5. Fodderized Gildarts and Gildarts said Acnologia was playing
6. Scared August (strongest spriggan with more magic than Zeref) with just magic power.
He's Stronger
Unlike Doflamingo he has accepted calcs with higher numbers than anything anyone in OP has done that Doflamingo can get scaled to. For example mountain level Tenrou Destruction.
KKG calc is innacurate and so Doflamingo gets scaled back down to 11 MT Zoro feat.
He's Faster
I just stated why above
.
Acnologia has shown a wide range of feats in the manga now. All of them are clear god tier feats that can probably not be done in FT by anyone else.
1. Killed Igneel, the father of Natsu, and one of the strongest dragons
2. Half-Killed all of the dragons 400 years ago
3. Has a human and dragon form he can switch between
4. One-shotted God Serena who stomped the 4 gods of Ishgar
5. Fodderized Gildarts and Gildarts said Acnologia was playing
6. Scared August (strongest spriggan with more magic than Zeref) with just magic power.
He's Stronger
Unlike Doflamingo he has accepted calcs with higher numbers than anything anyone in OP has done that Doflamingo can get scaled to. For example mountain level Tenrou Destruction.
KKG calc is innacurate and so Doflamingo gets scaled back down to 11 MT Zoro feat.
He's Faster
I just stated why above
.
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so do we add the win to Acno? Or wait for Dofla profile to finish? Because all the stats are higher so idk tbh .
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I guess you're asking me to explain why Doflamingo is superior to Acnologia... okay
Before I get to that: What I meant by low end numbers is that, rather than the meteor that Doflamingo slashed being measured at a specific distance, the calculators guesstimated that it moved 1.5 meters by the time Doflamingo finished his attack. That's what got him the Mach 637+ low end speed. If they had used high end numbers (taking the meteor's speed into account... some suggest it moves at mach 1,948 when measuring the known atmosphere and guessing that the time in which the meteor traveled from the top of the atmosphere to Green bit was one minute (if it worked like a real meteor, it would have taken over 50 minutes, maybe over an hour to travel the distance, but it was being pulled in by Fujitora's power, so...) Doflamingo's high end speed would make him MHS+ if they measured the distance the meteor traveled between Doflamingo's swipes to be less than 1.2 meters or if the speed turned out to be as high as Mach 1,948--though that speed would be very unlikely. It is safe to say that Mach 637 is the lowest speed Doflamingo could be. He is likely much higher since he was easily able to evade 2nd gear strikes from post timeskip Luffy and was capable of keeping up with a 4th gear Luffy for a lengthy period of time (20 minutes+ in the manga).
Alright, so: Doflamingo one shot Smoker without him realizing it. Smoker is stated on this wiki to be faster than pre time-skip 2nd gear Luffy (pre timeskip Luffy in G2 was finalized as being Mach 441, so that supports Doflamingo casually having at least Mach 637 swiping speed). Doflamingo also blitzed Sanji, who is also faster than pre time-skip Luffy. The sad thing is that Sanji specializes in Observation haki and he still could not react to pentachromatic threads.
Unless Acnologia is much faster, there is going to be a problem.
Acnologia could obviously speed blitz God Serena, Gildartz and others of that caliber when his speed is calced to be somewhere in the middle of MHS and their speeds are H+/HH in terms of combat and reaction speeds. Also, August and Zeref are not Doflamingo.
Doflamingo has an ability that can easily limit the movements of Acnologia in Dragon form especially. His Bird Cage was capable of pushing Fujitora back (Why scale Doflamingo to Zoro when he can easily be scaled to Fujitora? the 10 MT KKG calc is also inaccurate so I don't see your point. The old one was hiding a single outlier while the new one was missing a timeframe and lacked PE). Doflamingo's threads were capable of holding down the likes of Sanji with little to no resistance and could hold down Diamond Jozu and Oars Jr--the latter losing his leg by the same threads.
Why don't you go see why Acnologia is listed as Mach 400 in combat speed? Doflamingo is clearly faster.
Doflamingo has passive regenerative capabilities. Who knows, he would have most likely stood back up minutes after taking KKG to the face if the marines didn't go and chain him up since only minutes passed since he connected to the ground. He survived a blast that destroyed multiple organs and muscle tissue and stood right back up and was still overpowering someone of Luffy's caliber--even connecting a kick that would have sent Luffy flying over several hundred meters at least given the angle he left the palace when Trebol caught him.
Doflamingo has a basic level of Observation haki, which boosts his combat reaction speed by a small degree, which allowed him to keep pace with G4 Luffy despite being lethargic.
Doflamingo has a proficient level of Armament haki, which boosts his durability and attack potency. He brushed off hawk strikes with minimal use of Armament haki, claiming that they felt like mosquito bites. His spider thread could stop Law's Tact and Luffy's 3rd gear strikes with out stressing. If Luffy's output was 10 megatons, that would be ridiculous considering that Doflamingo's spiderthread ALONE could stop Law and Luffy's previous attacks with little effort.
Doflamingo has conqueror's haki, and he is proficient enough with it to apply it to his physical strikes. The shock from his haki is strong enough to blast Law and Trebol away from the immediate area as well as make the entire palace along with the flower hill shake. Doflamingo's casual kick was capable of cutting through 3 palace towers with the force still going outwards, which applied at least a dozen MT of force given how high the towers were blasted upwards (the two outer towers being tilted over 60 degrees) and likely even higher since the force from the kick continued going horizontally off of the screen: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/745/5
Doflamingo has the ability to awaken his devil fruit, allowing him to convert objects into strings and he can apply his haki to them. I highly doubt that Acnologia can land his breath attack if Doflamingo suddently threw waves of threads over his body and applied his haki to them.
Acnologia's physical attacks are not that impressive and given how far his force went when clashing with Igneel over and over again, his physical power in Dragon form is not much higher than Doflamingo's own.
Doflamingo has the advantage no matter the environment (unless of course it is over an ocean with no clouds in the sky)
And no, you can not say that Acnologia wins and demand that it be put on the page when it is 9 to 4... lmao.
Before I get to that: What I meant by low end numbers is that, rather than the meteor that Doflamingo slashed being measured at a specific distance, the calculators guesstimated that it moved 1.5 meters by the time Doflamingo finished his attack. That's what got him the Mach 637+ low end speed. If they had used high end numbers (taking the meteor's speed into account... some suggest it moves at mach 1,948 when measuring the known atmosphere and guessing that the time in which the meteor traveled from the top of the atmosphere to Green bit was one minute (if it worked like a real meteor, it would have taken over 50 minutes, maybe over an hour to travel the distance, but it was being pulled in by Fujitora's power, so...) Doflamingo's high end speed would make him MHS+ if they measured the distance the meteor traveled between Doflamingo's swipes to be less than 1.2 meters or if the speed turned out to be as high as Mach 1,948--though that speed would be very unlikely. It is safe to say that Mach 637 is the lowest speed Doflamingo could be. He is likely much higher since he was easily able to evade 2nd gear strikes from post timeskip Luffy and was capable of keeping up with a 4th gear Luffy for a lengthy period of time (20 minutes+ in the manga).
Alright, so: Doflamingo one shot Smoker without him realizing it. Smoker is stated on this wiki to be faster than pre time-skip 2nd gear Luffy (pre timeskip Luffy in G2 was finalized as being Mach 441, so that supports Doflamingo casually having at least Mach 637 swiping speed). Doflamingo also blitzed Sanji, who is also faster than pre time-skip Luffy. The sad thing is that Sanji specializes in Observation haki and he still could not react to pentachromatic threads.
Unless Acnologia is much faster, there is going to be a problem.
Acnologia could obviously speed blitz God Serena, Gildartz and others of that caliber when his speed is calced to be somewhere in the middle of MHS and their speeds are H+/HH in terms of combat and reaction speeds. Also, August and Zeref are not Doflamingo.
Doflamingo has an ability that can easily limit the movements of Acnologia in Dragon form especially. His Bird Cage was capable of pushing Fujitora back (Why scale Doflamingo to Zoro when he can easily be scaled to Fujitora? the 10 MT KKG calc is also inaccurate so I don't see your point. The old one was hiding a single outlier while the new one was missing a timeframe and lacked PE). Doflamingo's threads were capable of holding down the likes of Sanji with little to no resistance and could hold down Diamond Jozu and Oars Jr--the latter losing his leg by the same threads.
Why don't you go see why Acnologia is listed as Mach 400 in combat speed? Doflamingo is clearly faster.
Doflamingo has passive regenerative capabilities. Who knows, he would have most likely stood back up minutes after taking KKG to the face if the marines didn't go and chain him up since only minutes passed since he connected to the ground. He survived a blast that destroyed multiple organs and muscle tissue and stood right back up and was still overpowering someone of Luffy's caliber--even connecting a kick that would have sent Luffy flying over several hundred meters at least given the angle he left the palace when Trebol caught him.
Doflamingo has a basic level of Observation haki, which boosts his combat reaction speed by a small degree, which allowed him to keep pace with G4 Luffy despite being lethargic.
Doflamingo has a proficient level of Armament haki, which boosts his durability and attack potency. He brushed off hawk strikes with minimal use of Armament haki, claiming that they felt like mosquito bites. His spider thread could stop Law's Tact and Luffy's 3rd gear strikes with out stressing. If Luffy's output was 10 megatons, that would be ridiculous considering that Doflamingo's spiderthread ALONE could stop Law and Luffy's previous attacks with little effort.
Doflamingo has conqueror's haki, and he is proficient enough with it to apply it to his physical strikes. The shock from his haki is strong enough to blast Law and Trebol away from the immediate area as well as make the entire palace along with the flower hill shake. Doflamingo's casual kick was capable of cutting through 3 palace towers with the force still going outwards, which applied at least a dozen MT of force given how high the towers were blasted upwards (the two outer towers being tilted over 60 degrees) and likely even higher since the force from the kick continued going horizontally off of the screen: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/745/5
Doflamingo has the ability to awaken his devil fruit, allowing him to convert objects into strings and he can apply his haki to them. I highly doubt that Acnologia can land his breath attack if Doflamingo suddently threw waves of threads over his body and applied his haki to them.
Acnologia's physical attacks are not that impressive and given how far his force went when clashing with Igneel over and over again, his physical power in Dragon form is not much higher than Doflamingo's own.
Doflamingo has the advantage no matter the environment (unless of course it is over an ocean with no clouds in the sky
)And no, you can not say that Acnologia wins and demand that it be put on the page when it is 9 to 4... lmao.
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A few problems with what you said.
1- He is scaled to Fujitora from pushing him back? Doflamingo is clearly scared of Fujitora. One time batman pushed back the spectre. Is Batman automatically as strong as the spectre? No, he's not, so that logic is wrong. He is not stronger than Acnologia.
2- Mach 441 to something higher that 637 is actually extremely hard to do, if you didn't realize it. I would be surprised if blitzing Smoker was over 200 mach above him. Also Bleach is a clear example that blitzing someone doesn't make them more mach higher than them unless they did a speed feat while blitzing the person.
3- So you're going to tell me nearly half of a human's body is unreasonable for the range of Doflamingo and the meteor? This is an extreme highball due to using a timeframe that low for a meteor, like you stated it would have taken much more time.
4- Birdcage is not going to hold someone over 40 meters tall down. And oars is not nearly as strong as Acnologia, so that's an NLF. (Oars is not over 40, I remember a Marineford calc in which he was like 20 meters)
5- And Acnologia has been alive for over 400 years and lost his arm, yet still fodderized God Serena. I have a feeling some tiny Regenerationn won't do anything for Doflamingo.
6- Observation Haki, once again, is not going to help him fight against someone over 100 mach above him.
Whoever honestly put Mach 400 for combat speed...lol...wow, that's a nice assumption. Nice downplay. So I'm just gonna assume he's the *math confirmed* mach I found.
7- You telling me that Doflamingo has that much superior speed to Acnologia doesn't work. 5 half dead dragons that Acnologia fought all together 5 years and was stomping performing a speed feat that came out to speeds higher than Doflamingo's. Acnologia's speed is FAR higher than the 5 of them.
8- I'm pretty sure it's been said multiple times that Conquerer Haki is not valid in debates using OP characters vs other verse characters.
9- Again, Acnologia doesn't have Haki here so that's invalid.
10- He just fodderized a solid large city level person with one arm in human form. Dragon Form will be enough for Doflamingo.
11- That was before people were aware of the downgrade to Dofla.
12- And Acnologia can easily fly to that area.
Also Doflamingo is cocky, Acnologia will let him hit him.
If the KKG calc is not even backing up Doflamingo then Doflamingo is done for 100%.
1- He is scaled to Fujitora from pushing him back? Doflamingo is clearly scared of Fujitora. One time batman pushed back the spectre. Is Batman automatically as strong as the spectre? No, he's not, so that logic is wrong. He is not stronger than Acnologia.
2- Mach 441 to something higher that 637 is actually extremely hard to do, if you didn't realize it. I would be surprised if blitzing Smoker was over 200 mach above him. Also Bleach is a clear example that blitzing someone doesn't make them more mach higher than them unless they did a speed feat while blitzing the person.
3- So you're going to tell me nearly half of a human's body is unreasonable for the range of Doflamingo and the meteor? This is an extreme highball due to using a timeframe that low for a meteor, like you stated it would have taken much more time.
4- Birdcage is not going to hold someone over 40 meters tall down. And oars is not nearly as strong as Acnologia, so that's an NLF. (Oars is not over 40, I remember a Marineford calc in which he was like 20 meters)
5- And Acnologia has been alive for over 400 years and lost his arm, yet still fodderized God Serena. I have a feeling some tiny Regenerationn won't do anything for Doflamingo.
6- Observation Haki, once again, is not going to help him fight against someone over 100 mach above him.
Whoever honestly put Mach 400 for combat speed...lol...wow, that's a nice assumption. Nice downplay. So I'm just gonna assume he's the *math confirmed* mach I found.
7- You telling me that Doflamingo has that much superior speed to Acnologia doesn't work. 5 half dead dragons that Acnologia fought all together 5 years and was stomping performing a speed feat that came out to speeds higher than Doflamingo's. Acnologia's speed is FAR higher than the 5 of them.
8- I'm pretty sure it's been said multiple times that Conquerer Haki is not valid in debates using OP characters vs other verse characters.
9- Again, Acnologia doesn't have Haki here so that's invalid.
10- He just fodderized a solid large city level person with one arm in human form. Dragon Form will be enough for Doflamingo.
11- That was before people were aware of the downgrade to Dofla.
12- And Acnologia can easily fly to that area.
Also Doflamingo is cocky, Acnologia will let him hit him.
If the KKG calc is not even backing up Doflamingo then Doflamingo is done for 100%.
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Also if a little less than half or a little over half of the people disagree then it's inconclusive.
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Look what I found:
http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1062319
Eletist people are saying that Acnologia stomps.
Island level and 4 digit mach over there.
I knew some down playing was happening.
http://www.narutoforums.com/showthread.php?t=1062319
Eletist people are saying that Acnologia stomps.
Island level and 4 digit mach over there.
I knew some down playing was happening.
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1- Doflamingo has never shown fear towards Fujitora or even Aokiji. He willingly clashed with each of them when they threatened him: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/699/3 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/735/18 -- he should be comparable in strength. Also, Fujitora was being shoved back despite being assisted by Zoro and others when trying to stop the bird cage. Doflamingo should at least be comparable to Fujitora, who has already shown casual small Island feats via his Class T lifting strength and casually fighting Sabo and Luffy back individually.
2- Lol... Smoker was on guard and didn't even have any time to react to Doflamingo flicking his wrist: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/698/11
3- The meteor stuff is hard to actually calculate, but given that he sent two swipes (his threads lag behind his actual swings), each swipe was at a 70 degree angle or around it. At the time it took the meteorite to travel 1.5 meters, Doflamingo already cut it apart, which is why the absolute low end for that calc is around Mach 637. The high end would be 980 (Mach 490 x 2, since he swiped two times, but that is pretty insane so they stuck with saying "make Doflamingo sit at being "At least MHS" with 637 as his low end"
4-Bird cage covered all of Dressrosa and Doflamingo could remotely control its size and shrink it down at whatever speed he could make it. It would be easy for him to make a Bird Cage that pretty much gave him enough room to fly around while Acnologia has to be careful due the the strings being extremely sharp.
5- Doflamingo is much more durable than Serena given their massive difference in stats--Doflamingo's durability also being enhanced by his haki. Serena is likely only high end 7-B and possibly low end 7-A given that he beat the 4 wizard saints (Who are all scaled via Laxus into being Low 7-B or 7-B) fairly easily once he went crazy
6- As I stated, Doflamingo's low end is 637 and he is likely to be at least Mach 900... higher reaction speed with Observation haki since he could react to Luffy in Gear 4th.
7-their low end and high end speeds are considered too vast in difference, but given the time that it took them to destroy Face, they are likely only MHS in speed anyways. Doflamingo blitzed people within the 500+ Mach range despite being caught off guard (Sanji had two openings to exploit but Doflamingo still easily blocked his attacks and countered: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/723/20 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/724/5)
Acnologia is currently accepted at Mach 400, but I still think he is at least towards the higher end of MHS, but it wouldn't make sense since a lot of high tiers are barely HH speeds.
How about we consider Doflamingo and Acnologia's speed to be equalized?
8- where is that stated? I thought that was only the case for soul crush... (which would not apply even if it were allowed for many reasons unless against weaker characters) Acnologia would not be KO'd by Doflamingo's conqueror's haki or even close. I'm saying that it would add on to Doflamingo's AP with his attacks. He'd hurt Acnologia with it.
9- Acnologia has magic Doflamingo has haki~
10-Doflamingo fodderized city level people as well, but we never saw him fight people who are large city (high end 7-B is still city. 7-A is Large City/Mountain) outside of Law and Luffy... he even stopped Jozu
11- The calc is still invalid.
12-What area?
13- Acnologia is just as arrogant if not more.
14- The old calc vs the new calc--both are still inaccurate. Also, what about my statement about Doflamingo's kick? His casual kick being stronger than KKG makes absolutely no sense
2- Lol... Smoker was on guard and didn't even have any time to react to Doflamingo flicking his wrist: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/698/11
3- The meteor stuff is hard to actually calculate, but given that he sent two swipes (his threads lag behind his actual swings), each swipe was at a 70 degree angle or around it. At the time it took the meteorite to travel 1.5 meters, Doflamingo already cut it apart, which is why the absolute low end for that calc is around Mach 637. The high end would be 980 (Mach 490 x 2, since he swiped two times, but that is pretty insane so they stuck with saying "make Doflamingo sit at being "At least MHS" with 637 as his low end"
4-Bird cage covered all of Dressrosa and Doflamingo could remotely control its size and shrink it down at whatever speed he could make it. It would be easy for him to make a Bird Cage that pretty much gave him enough room to fly around while Acnologia has to be careful due the the strings being extremely sharp.
5- Doflamingo is much more durable than Serena given their massive difference in stats--Doflamingo's durability also being enhanced by his haki. Serena is likely only high end 7-B and possibly low end 7-A given that he beat the 4 wizard saints (Who are all scaled via Laxus into being Low 7-B or 7-B) fairly easily once he went crazy
6- As I stated, Doflamingo's low end is 637 and he is likely to be at least Mach 900... higher reaction speed with Observation haki since he could react to Luffy in Gear 4th.
7-their low end and high end speeds are considered too vast in difference, but given the time that it took them to destroy Face, they are likely only MHS in speed anyways. Doflamingo blitzed people within the 500+ Mach range despite being caught off guard (Sanji had two openings to exploit but Doflamingo still easily blocked his attacks and countered: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/723/20 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/724/5)
Acnologia is currently accepted at Mach 400, but I still think he is at least towards the higher end of MHS, but it wouldn't make sense since a lot of high tiers are barely HH speeds.
How about we consider Doflamingo and Acnologia's speed to be equalized?
8- where is that stated? I thought that was only the case for soul crush... (which would not apply even if it were allowed for many reasons unless against weaker characters) Acnologia would not be KO'd by Doflamingo's conqueror's haki or even close. I'm saying that it would add on to Doflamingo's AP with his attacks. He'd hurt Acnologia with it.
9- Acnologia has magic
Doflamingo has haki~10-Doflamingo fodderized city level people as well, but we never saw him fight people who are large city (high end 7-B is still city. 7-A is Large City/Mountain) outside of Law and Luffy... he even stopped Jozu
11- The calc is still invalid.
12-What area?
13- Acnologia is just as arrogant if not more.
14- The old calc vs the new calc--both are still inaccurate. Also, what about my statement about Doflamingo's kick? His casual kick being stronger than KKG makes absolutely no sense
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Nah, people are saying that Acnologia stomps >_>... No matter how you look at it, if you take each of their low ends and high ends, it will be a hard fight but I simply say that Doflamingo wins via his Devil Fruit.
On OBD, Acnologia is Island while Doflamingo is City. On here, Acnologia is at least Mountain and Doflamingo is possibly Large Mountain. Each community has their own different calculations, but Doflamingo should at least be Mountain level anyways.
On OBD, Acnologia is Island while Doflamingo is City. On here, Acnologia is at least Mountain and Doflamingo is possibly Large Mountain. Each community has their own different calculations, but Doflamingo should at least be Mountain level anyways.
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K, Speed Equal.
1- Doflamingo has never fought against a serious Fujitora or Aokiji. Birdcage is massive and will clearly hold down regular people. Birdcage's DC or Durability is not equal to Doflamingo.
1-4- Skipped cuz speed equal
5- This isn't true because he get's scaled to CSK's 50 Megaton feat which, if KKG is not accepted, Doflamingo doesn't have the strength of. I can't say the same for durability.
6-7- Skipped cuz speed equal
8- Conquerors Haki only works on people with Haki. Even if it doesn't then I don't see it doing much damage to Acnologia.
9- k
10- Acnologia fodderized Gildarts, Makarov, Igneel, and now God Serena. That's a high-top tiers list right there.
11- skipped cuz speed equal
12- If they are in Marineford it's very likely that Acnologia grabs on to Doflamingo and brings him to the water.
13- When has he ever shown arrogance? He goes all out.
14- It's probably not as strong...
1- Doflamingo has never fought against a serious Fujitora or Aokiji. Birdcage is massive and will clearly hold down regular people. Birdcage's DC or Durability is not equal to Doflamingo.
1-4- Skipped cuz speed equal
5- This isn't true because he get's scaled to CSK's 50 Megaton feat which, if KKG is not accepted, Doflamingo doesn't have the strength of. I can't say the same for durability.
6-7- Skipped cuz speed equal
8- Conquerors Haki only works on people with Haki. Even if it doesn't then I don't see it doing much damage to Acnologia
.9- k
10- Acnologia fodderized Gildarts, Makarov, Igneel, and now God Serena. That's a high-top tiers list right there.
11- skipped cuz speed equal
12- If they are in Marineford it's very likely that Acnologia grabs on to Doflamingo and brings him to the water.
13- When has he ever shown arrogance? He goes all out.
14- It's probably not as strong...
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tbh this is inconclusive then.
Good?
Good?
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1- the point is that Doflamingo hesitated for a moment before striking at Smoker despite Aokiji being right behind him--ready to stop him. He also willingly attacked Fujitora when the only Executives around were Baby 5 and Buffalo, who would be stomped out by Fujitora without him even paying attention to them
5- The time span between KKG and Doflamingo hitting the underground port is very small given that Luffy fell arguably less than a meter (http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/16 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/791/2) (The perspective from each scan is at a different angle, so of course everyone is going to be having trouble calculating Luffy's free fall)... Doflamingo was also falling at a resting position (http://www.***********.net/one-piece/791/2) the new calc excluded PE so it is automatically invalid while the old calc left out a single outlier that could have calced KKG to be above 1 gigaton after being deminished
8- Conqueror's haki is defined as taking the user's willpower and projecting it outwards. If one's will is too weak, they will be stunned and incapacitated immediately. Doflamingo's is strong enough to destroy buildings on its own, shake the flower hill, and KO many marines within a wide radius (i know, they are fodder) and so it would make at least a minor increase on his strikes (he used conqueror's haki in conjunction with Ham-string and when he clashed with Luffy in chapter 783: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/8 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/783/13)
9- k
10 - didn't makarov hold him back even for a moment? We also don't know the circumstances of his fight with Gildarts, though it was obviously an easy win. He didn't fodderize Igneel. He struggled to actually full on beat him and even lost an arm in the process
12 - Doflamingo could retaliate by using his threads depending the situation and also, unless they have prep time and know the other's weakness, Acnologia wouldn't know to take Doflamingo to the water
13- He toyed with the FT guild. He also went up the Serena and defeated him without even considering him a threat. He is arrogant.
14- All I'm saying is that Doflamingo's casual kick being stronger than KKG is ridiculous.
5- The time span between KKG and Doflamingo hitting the underground port is very small given that Luffy fell arguably less than a meter (http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/16 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/791/2) (The perspective from each scan is at a different angle, so of course everyone is going to be having trouble calculating Luffy's free fall)... Doflamingo was also falling at a resting position (http://www.***********.net/one-piece/791/2) the new calc excluded PE so it is automatically invalid while the old calc left out a single outlier that could have calced KKG to be above 1 gigaton after being deminished
8- Conqueror's haki is defined as taking the user's willpower and projecting it outwards. If one's will is too weak, they will be stunned and incapacitated immediately. Doflamingo's is strong enough to destroy buildings on its own, shake the flower hill, and KO many marines within a wide radius (i know, they are fodder) and so it would make at least a minor increase on his strikes (he used conqueror's haki in conjunction with Ham-string and when he clashed with Luffy in chapter 783: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/8 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/783/13)
9- k
10 - didn't makarov hold him back even for a moment? We also don't know the circumstances of his fight with Gildarts, though it was obviously an easy win. He didn't fodderize Igneel. He struggled to actually full on beat him and even lost an arm in the process
12 - Doflamingo could retaliate by using his threads depending the situation and also, unless they have prep time and know the other's weakness, Acnologia wouldn't know to take Doflamingo to the water
13- He toyed with the FT guild. He also went up the Serena and defeated him without even considering him a threat. He is arrogant.
14- All I'm saying is that Doflamingo's casual kick being stronger than KKG is ridiculous.
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Doflamingo wins.
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No.
1. Another thread says Acnologia stomps.
2. Half of the votes say Acnologia wins.
3. I can keep on going.
1. Another thread says Acnologia stomps.
2. Half of the votes say Acnologia wins.
3. I can keep on going.
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I don't care about what other people are saying. Via feats and calcs, Doflamingo has the advantage due to his devil fruit. If this is blood lusted, he would be fighting in conjunction with his Awakening from the start and applying conqueror's haki. Acnologia in human form would be physically at least sup-par/close to Doflamingo, but Doflamingo has superior range due to his threads, being able to reach farther than the size of Dressrosa, which is at least the size of a Large Mountain on the surface. Acnologia's magic has only been shown going over a few kilometers in distance. Doflamingo is an expert at close quarters and would have little difficulty defending against Acnologia's onslaught via evading or blocking with threads/haki. Acnologia would be in Dragon form immediately after realizing that he can't so easily defeat Doflamingo and that's when Doflamingo would be applying his Bird Cage and Awakening to fight Acnologia back. He'd do everything in his power to wear Acnologia down and keeping himself from harm while Acnologia would be forced to use his Breath attack, which is scaled to be around Large Mountain level to low end Island level (the Island scaling for Tenrou is reaching pretty hard given Acnologia's size and the size of the crater). Doflamingo using his awakening can wrap the threads around his general area and he would simply have to apply some haki to the threads and the rest to his body to mitigate the damage. Unless Acnologia can spam it at least half a dozen times with the same power at a relatively quick pace, he wont be killing Doflamingo. He'd also be at risk hurting himself with his own attacks or even be shoved back into the bird cage.
Doflamingo wins.
Edit: since this is on Marineford, the island would likely be destroyed by Acnologia's breath attacks so Doflamingo would have to retreat via the skies until he finds land or even fight in the skies.
Doflamingo wins.
Edit: since this is on Marineford, the island would likely be destroyed by Acnologia's breath attacks so Doflamingo would have to retreat via the skies until he finds land or even fight in the skies.
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- facepalm*
You wanna use high ends? Alright.
Acnologia is Mach 1200 and the high end Tenrou was 3.5 Gigatons.
Doflamingo is Mach 900 (just for the fun of it) and he gets scaled to Zoro 11 Megatons.
Who wins?
Yeah, Acnologia.
A little arnament steel isn't going to stop island level attacks any time soon and haki wont evade anyone with an extra 300 mach.
Acnologia wins.
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By the way, i was looking at other OBD/Narutoforums stuff on Doflamingo and apparently... someone said Doflamingo is Mach 1900+ and someone else said 1984... erm... no...?
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I have proof that people said Mach 1200 so show me yours of 1900.
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I didn't read your last post... and i'm saying that it is gross that people suggest that Doflamingo is mach 1984 without evidence supporting that... he is likely only around Mach 1,100 at most...
by the way, Acnologia's high end at tenrou is actually 12 Gigatons (thank me later) with the low end being somewhere around 2 Gigatons when using high end size scaling to Tenrou <3.
Still, there are various strange scalings for character speeds and AP... take this for example (Luffy's speed in Gear 4th being Mach 1,500 as a low end...): https://plus.google.com/+NakulBaloni/posts/dW4Mao6hF3T
And how people suggested that Naruto was almost Mach 20,000 in the Last.
Back on topic: Acnologia's high end is around 1,200 Mach travelling speed while Doflamingo's is comparable.
I said that physically, Acnologia is probably slightly superior to Doflamingo, but if I take the high end (Which is wanked and the time frame is very compressed), then this would go to Acnologia, but with the gap between his low and high being so ridiculous, I don't accept it especially given the speed of the other dragons especially Igneel.
Acnologia's speed is not 1,200 Mach unless you want to resort to high end numbers. That means Doflamingo is faster if we take the BS Meteor calc and applied it to him on top of the high end for the other calc. He'd be much faster than Acnologia.
I'm just saying~
by the way, Acnologia's high end at tenrou is actually 12 Gigatons (thank me later) with the low end being somewhere around 2 Gigatons when using high end size scaling to Tenrou <3.
Still, there are various strange scalings for character speeds and AP... take this for example (Luffy's speed in Gear 4th being Mach 1,500 as a low end...): https://plus.google.com/+NakulBaloni/posts/dW4Mao6hF3T
And how people suggested that Naruto was almost Mach 20,000 in the Last.
Back on topic: Acnologia's high end is around 1,200 Mach travelling speed while Doflamingo's is comparable.
I said that physically, Acnologia is probably slightly superior to Doflamingo, but if I take the high end (Which is wanked and the time frame is very compressed), then this would go to Acnologia, but with the gap between his low and high being so ridiculous, I don't accept it especially given the speed of the other dragons especially Igneel.
Acnologia's speed is not 1,200 Mach unless you want to resort to high end numbers. That means Doflamingo is faster if we take the BS Meteor calc and applied it to him on top of the high end for the other calc. He'd be much faster than Acnologia.
I'm just saying~
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Unfortunately that's calc stacking and I said it in the post itself^^
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I change my vote. I give it to Acnologia mid-high dif. Way too much raw power even base and his dragon form is bound to be more powerful. His magic is on a whole different level than August, who is said to be in a different league than all the other Spriggans. Also, he always goes in for the kill, never wasting a second. He is way too experienced for Doflamingo.
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I just saw that Doflamingo has been downgraded to 7B. He ain't doing shit against Acno with that AP. It's highly possible that he will get "THE GILDARTS TREATMENT".
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Doflamingo is not at least Mountain+ anymore since a new calc came out and caused confusion. So now they are scaling Doflamingo to Zoro (when he should be scaled to Jozu, who is high 7-A, since he actually managed to hold him down with ease). This fight is officially lost . Though, Doflamingo being downgraded to 7-B instead of staying at 7-A is weird when Jozu is High 7-A but could not get out of Parasito.
. Though, Doflamingo being downgraded to 7-B instead of staying at 7-A is weird when Jozu is High 7-A but could not get out of Parasito.
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1. There's NO WAY one scales Doffy from Zoro. That's AWFUL.
2. KKG at Small Island even though was highly lowballed and potentially hiding an outlier considering Doffy was hit by such large force and 2.92 seconds timeframe doesn't make sense, there's no correct timeframe to calc it and we can't even factor how much velocity Doffy would lose after hitting such MASSIVE mass, the freefall calc by Ribs was the closest to being true. Birdcage over time destruction is Island level (Counts as his Environmental DC), I have the calc ready for it but doesn't really matter here
3. Jozu has physical strength much higher than that of Acnologia unless proven otherwise. There's no way Acno breaks through parasite.
4. Here Doffy is at Mach 650+ and Acno is 420+, In OBD Doffy is Mach 1900+ via reacting to Fujitora's meteor (accepted there in OBD) and Acno is Mach 1200 MAX from high end of the calc. Either way Doffy is faster.
5. Like I said in my original comment feats let Acno down here. To me he could obviously be stronger (I think he should be) but based on what we know and have? No.
2. KKG at Small Island even though was highly lowballed and potentially hiding an outlier considering Doffy was hit by such large force and 2.92 seconds timeframe doesn't make sense, there's no correct timeframe to calc it and we can't even factor how much velocity Doffy would lose after hitting such MASSIVE mass, the freefall calc by Ribs was the closest to being true. Birdcage over time destruction is Island level (Counts as his Environmental DC), I have the calc ready for it but doesn't really matter here
3. Jozu has physical strength much higher than that of Acnologia unless proven otherwise. There's no way Acno breaks through parasite.
4. Here Doffy is at Mach 650+ and Acno is 420+, In OBD Doffy is Mach 1900+ via reacting to Fujitora's meteor (accepted there in OBD) and Acno is Mach 1200 MAX from high end of the calc. Either way Doffy is faster.
5. Like I said in my original comment feats let Acno down here. To me he could obviously be stronger (I think he should be) but based on what we know and have? No.
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Doflamingo should honestly scale to Jozu or mildly to the Admirals. Doflamingo blitzed Sanji and one swipe left Sanji hurting pretty badly. Zoro should only be slightly superior to Sanji, but maybe he'd stand a better chance against Doflamingo since his Armament haki is superior to Sanji's (and that he is a better "warrior" and "fighter" + has likely superior reaction speed), but Doflamingo has proven strong enough to easily crush people at Sanji and Law's Caliber. Zoro being in between the two. He was charging at Doflamingo and was treated as though he was not there. Doflamingo would have stomped him just like he did to SMOKER.
Edit: Zoro's slash on Pica was calc'd at 11.5 MT of force--he was able to throw out several slashes immediately afterwards (each being comparable to the 11.5 MT slash) without the use of Asura. He is likely towards the higher 7-B tier range. Doflamingo should easily be 7-A if we scaled him to Zoro since he could tank Sanji's kicks without the use of haki and one casual attack was too quick and left Sanji hurting pretty badly. Law is scaled to be above Zoro and Doflamingo had little difficulty defeating him TWICE while only using his Pentachromatic threads and bullet threads. Law was only capable of dealing superficial damage to Doflamingo in their 2nd fight and he was easily put down the moment Doflamingo started putting effort into the fight: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/769/5 -- he stomped Sanji and defeated Law with little difficulty despite being surprised that Law was a "D".
1) being 7-B and pinning down a high 7-A does not add up, which is why i still persist with fighting the calc. He was not afraid of the Admirals and even clashed with two of them when none of his allies were there to support him at the time (especially with Aokiji). Standing on the battleground that shows Aokiji's power (Punk Hazard... on the snowy side) with his back turned to someone hundreds~thousands of times stronger than him and being able to resist his freezing and even thought of fighting him with no fear--it does not make sense. Doflamingo needs to return ASAP and slice an island in half
2) people suggest that Doflamingo did not fall at a resting position (he clearly did as shown in manga chapter 791) and that Luffy fell a dozen meters (his freefall clearly shows he fell less than a meter). If you have a calc, go right ahead and put it on your blog on your profile and link it to me.
3) Acno could break out of it in Dragon form relatively easily. Jozu vs Human form Acnologia--Jozu is superior in strength.
4) Mach 637 Doflamingo was stated as low end and Mach 1,900+ was considered too high since the timeframe was assumed to be a minute and there is no clear time frame. If the meteor was 1,984 and Doflamingo landed two attacks within the time it travelled between 1 meter and 1.5 meters.... well... you do the math... Acno being 1,200 Mach is also wanked.
5) His breath attack supports that he could be Small Island level or even potentionally Island level, but people keep wanking their favorite verses.
Doflamingo should still be at least 7-A even if we scaled him to Zoro given that he stomped Sanji--who is slightly weaker than Zoro and defeated Law twice with very little difficulty--who is scaled to be superior to Zoro and still couldn't deal any significant damage to Doflamingo without Gamma Knife.
Edit: Zoro's slash on Pica was calc'd at 11.5 MT of force--he was able to throw out several slashes immediately afterwards (each being comparable to the 11.5 MT slash) without the use of Asura. He is likely towards the higher 7-B tier range. Doflamingo should easily be 7-A if we scaled him to Zoro since he could tank Sanji's kicks without the use of haki and one casual attack was too quick and left Sanji hurting pretty badly. Law is scaled to be above Zoro and Doflamingo had little difficulty defeating him TWICE while only using his Pentachromatic threads and bullet threads. Law was only capable of dealing superficial damage to Doflamingo in their 2nd fight and he was easily put down the moment Doflamingo started putting effort into the fight: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/769/5 -- he stomped Sanji and defeated Law with little difficulty despite being surprised that Law was a "D".
1) being 7-B and pinning down a high 7-A does not add up, which is why i still persist with fighting the calc. He was not afraid of the Admirals and even clashed with two of them when none of his allies were there to support him at the time (especially with Aokiji). Standing on the battleground that shows Aokiji's power (Punk Hazard... on the snowy side) with his back turned to someone hundreds~thousands of times stronger than him and being able to resist his freezing and even thought of fighting him with no fear--it does not make sense. Doflamingo needs to return ASAP and slice an island in half
2) people suggest that Doflamingo did not fall at a resting position (he clearly did as shown in manga chapter 791) and that Luffy fell a dozen meters (his freefall clearly shows he fell less than a meter). If you have a calc, go right ahead and put it on your blog on your profile and link it to me.
3) Acno could break out of it in Dragon form relatively easily. Jozu vs Human form Acnologia--Jozu is superior in strength.
4) Mach 637 Doflamingo was stated as low end and Mach 1,900+ was considered too high since the timeframe was assumed to be a minute and there is no clear time frame. If the meteor was 1,984 and Doflamingo landed two attacks within the time it travelled between 1 meter and 1.5 meters.... well... you do the math
... Acno being 1,200 Mach is also wanked.5) His breath attack supports that he could be Small Island level or even potentionally Island level, but people keep wanking their favorite verses.
Doflamingo should still be at least 7-A even if we scaled him to Zoro given that he stomped Sanji--who is slightly weaker than Zoro and defeated Law twice with very little difficulty--who is scaled to be superior to Zoro and still couldn't deal any significant damage to Doflamingo without Gamma Knife.
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