Do electrical attacks ignore durability?

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I think what they're implying is increased amount of ohms.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am 100% in agreement with Assaltwaffle. Energy is energy. If it can be quantified it won't bypass durability, certainly not to the suggested extent.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'm not aaying it isn't Flesh, but it isn't the same Flesh we know. No flesh, in any circumstance, can survive what fictional characters do. What I'm arguing is, outside of a fundamental level we don't know what the properties of a character's physiology will be. Unless it effects something like the atoms themselves, I think the chemistry of the character's body can't be assumed.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I will say that if the majority agrees that character physiology is, by and large, the same as a normal human then it follows that electricity would ignore durability. My issue just lies with accepting their physiology as equal to normal humans.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Electricity isn't chemical either, it actually functions on the atomic scale if that's how you want to play it. You can argue that electricity isn't consistent with reality in fiction, but you're not telling me every superhuman character is biologically different on a cellular level.

Energy comes in many forms. For example, radiation bypasses durability conventionally speaking.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I am 100% in agreement with Assaltwaffle. Energy is energy. If it can be quantified it won't bypass durability, certainly not to the suggested extent.

I've given my sources as to how electricity ignores durability in real life. You can assume as much as you want about how you think energy works if you'd like. Sure, whether that's applicable in a fictional setting is up for debate, but how electricity functions isn't.

I agree with Wok, however, although I think Ant has a good point with Voltage and Amps being stated.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I agree with this as well.

 

[Kepekley23]

The OP is correct...sort of. Durability shouldn't change the effects of electricity in the human body too much. Resistance to currents is determined more by elasticity than anything. Steel is an excellent conductor, afterall.

Human skin is a really awful one though, so it's not like you're going to incapacitate people with strikes. You will need to hit them closer to the veins or the mouth (where there is water) to have anywhere near that effect you described.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I agree with Kep.

Plus, an 8-C character grabbing another character and eletricuting them right next to the head should by all means knock the other character out/paralyse them.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I agree with Kep as well.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Arguing for the effects on the flesh of humans has little to do with the flesh of people who endure planet-busting attacks. Arguing that Electro could kill Goku is what's being suggested here, basically.

 

[Kepekley23]

Electro couldn't, most of the time.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Arguing that Electro could kill Goku is what's being suggested here, basically.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

How would the flesh itself, in composition, be different because durability? Electricity goes through a material based on its conductivity, not its durability. See: Steel being a better conductor than human flesh; etc.

It would be a valid argument, actually. Comics Electro can already paralyze people through "overcharging bio-electrical transmissions".

If the electricity doesn't function realistically in-verse, it wouldn't in the battle. But realistic electricity should be treated for what it is. What I'm saying is that real electricity, ones that several verses have evidence for using, should function like real electricity.

 

[Antoniofer]

To be fair, there has been moments in fiction where real electricity has bypass characters durability including several instances in DC and Marvel, Roroa Zoro was hit with 10M V, Centipeed (although I personally think that gems are weak against electrical based attacks), several descriptions in Pokemon, and more. People will argue that is PIS, but in order to do that the character should have that same amount of current with minor damage to qualify as such.

 

[Antvasima]

It would likely cause us a lot of difficult work if we can no longer scale durability from withstanding lightning strikes, and will have to find all of the affected verses. Then again, we considerably more commonly tend to scale character speeds from that sort of thing.

 

[Kaltias]

Withstanding actual lightning strikes isn't a durability feat though. Real life people do that all the time, because it isn't durability based.

Unless you meant fictional lightning bolts that don't behave as regular ones, in which case you can ignore my comment

 

[Kepekley23]

Ant, we have never treated surviving a lightning bolt as durability. The electricity travels straight out of the body and onto the ground.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then.

 

[Antoniofer]

The impact of a lightning bolt is pretty low tho, like street level so counting it as durability or nor wouldn't change much; those are generally mortal due respiratory arrest or heart stop.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Just saying, a lightning too far above your dura will explode you.

Heat production when passing through an object approximately rises with AP.

 

[Kepekley23]

You need to only be, like, 9-B to survive the environment around you being heated to the thousands of degrees, though.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im also going to agree with the OP on this.

 

[DontTalkDT]

You need to only be, like, 9-B to survive the environment around you being heated to the thousands of degrees, though.

Assuming the voltage and current of lightning rises approximately equally for the lightnings power, the power (in J/s) released in you increases equally to the power of the attack. (see Joule heating)

As in, if power doubles the amount of energy you tank also doubles.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It seems there is much consensus about surviving lightning not being a dura feat if it's realistic cloud-to-ground lightning.

Can I get some more feedback on the 'realistic lightning/electricity ignoring durability' issue? Matt and Assault seem to be against it, whereas Kep, Myself, and a number of others agree with it. Of course, I'm only talking about lightning/electricity we consider as 'realistic', which would be lightning or electricity that meets our current standards for doging feats, which are already pretty strict and wouldn't apply to too many characters.

At best I'd like there to be edits to the electricity manipulation page, which has really poor clarifications on the properties of realistic and fictional electricity and is pretty misleading.

 

[Kepekley23]

Kal never said he was against it. He was replying to what Ant said

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oops, sorry. I mixed him up with Assault. Fixed the comment.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'm conditionally for it. The mechanics may work just fine but I personally don't want to assume the specific physiology of characters above humans.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It is often being overthinked in this thread.

 

[Kepekley23]

This thread also has overposting, lol.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Matt

I agree

@Assault

Would you agree with having the same stuff required for electricity dodging calcs to be required for applying characteristics of realistic electricity? I think we can also add that stuff like Volts or Amplitude has to be stated as well.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Dargoo

Yes, I think that stipulation would be needed no matter what, imo. My perosonal problem stems with assuming the physiology of the character to be sufficiently similar to a human's to allow for the electricry to what it does to comcentional organics.

However if the group agrees that even planet busters and beyond have the same physical properties to humans to allow for the effects you described to occur (I can't critically evaluate the science since I know next to nothing about how electricity works) then I will admit that such effects follow necessarily.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It's the same principle through which stuff like biology hax works, though.

It's fair to say that most fictional characters who we would argue that get affected by electricity have A) Brains which rely on electrical signals, B) Hearts and muscles that rely on electrical signals, C) Are made of flesh, which regardless of durability would conduct electricity.

And I don't think this will actually affect any profiles, I'm just asking for the clarification to be added to the electricity manip page so it can be looked at case-by-case.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I know they would opperate similarly, but it stands to reason that the electrical impulse needed to cross rhe neurons would need to be stronger depending on the character. I think this is true for large animals like elephants and whales, at least.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, for large sized characters, it's primarily because of the the massive size of the organs, and the larger distance said signals have to pass. I'd totally argue that a strong electrical shock in real life would do jack all to a building sized character.

It's just not durability that makes a difference here. As I've said time and time again, unless you want to assume the character is made of something other than flesh (which would mean that biohax, poision, etc. would be null), electricity should pass through fine, as flesh has its own defined conductivity.

And of course electricity hardly acts this way in fiction. For verses like that, of course we won't consider stuff like this. Just when we ca prove the electricity acts realisticaly, we should treat it as such.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

So about what strength of electricty would've required to deal significant damage to a human sized character?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html

^ This article does a good job explaining it ^

Amount of energy actually has very little to do with how fatal the electricity is, it's the strength of the current.

Which is why we'd need a statement of Amps before we can really say the electricity ignores durability.

 

[Antoniofer]

100 mA is pretty low tho, 120 mA is the value of nervious pulses (reason why a superior current than that cause paralysis), unless is refering to AC; I may post other tables tomorrow.

But yes, the bigger the animal or whatever, the major it is resistivity, and more voltage is needed, not sure about the current values if they change.

 

[AKM sama]

I'll have to agree with Assault here. There was even a thread about it where it was discussed that it only applies to humans. Fictional characters who have sufficient external and internal durability should not be affected by electricity if it doesn't have sufficient AP.

 

[Kepekley23]

As has been explained this entire thread, that's false for real electricity.