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Ain't got time for all those niceties. I amma solo. Gonna read the main arguements and create a bulk response at night.
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[DMC] Yamato/Nero Hax Removal
- Thread starter Deagonx
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Yeah not really seeing how your absorption refute with the demon world makes any sense when there's like 3 separate statements on the demon world consuming the entire human world in the link provided. As for the Nero Yamato stuff, I'm gonna wait for Gilver to respond before I make my vote.
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- #46
For two reasons:
1) The nature of this consumption is, per the description given in the scans, concretely portrayed as the demon world spreading out into the human world and taking it over.
2) The Demons aren't resisting it. It's not even happening to them. It's happening to the environment around them and they have no means to stop it.
So how is it resistance if they aren't resisting it? Even if we did consider it absorption it wouldn't given demon's resistance to absorption.
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Except we literally see in DMC 2 that the demon world itself is infesting the human world by warping it into being more and more like the demonic realm, if it was just demons spreading around then the warped environment wouldn't even happen in the first place. Also I'm refuting the fact that it's not absorption to begin with, whether or not the demons resist it I'm waiting for Gilver to elaborate on it.
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I'm sorry if I miscommunicated, this description is precisely what I believe is happening. My opinion is that it's very clearly not any form of "absorption." Infesting something or corrupting it with evil influence isn't absorption.
I truly don't see how the human world being infested by the demon world could confer any sort of resistance to demons regardless of how we characterize the event.
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From what I’ve read I’m in agreement with the OP.
Nero didn’t begin getting absorbed until after he was stabbed by Yamato because it was said they needed his blood first for the Statue. So even if Nero should have or have not resistance to absorption already, the statue hadn’t been trying to absorb Nero until after he was already stabbed by Yamato.
Nero didn’t begin getting absorbed until after he was stabbed by Yamato because it was said they needed his blood first for the Statue. So even if Nero should have or have not resistance to absorption already, the statue hadn’t been trying to absorb Nero until after he was already stabbed by Yamato.
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Remain where?
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For the Demon World itself, I mean.
Bastolan27
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Agree
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@Deagonx Except for the fact it’s stated numerous times it’s consuming the human world heavily implies absorption and the environments looking closer and closer to the demon world suggests that to be the case, actually refute the fact the demon world is stated numerous times to be able to consume the human world because you’re not really doing anything other than argue semantics.
Hence why I said we wait for Gilver to grant the context for the feat in the first place.
Hence why I said we wait for Gilver to grant the context for the feat in the first place.
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I strongly disagree given the context around it, but regardless this isn't something that Demons are resisting. Even if we consider the Demon World to be "absorbing" the Human World, that isn't a resistance feat for Demons.
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Saying you disagree because context isn't an argument, the statements from the novels and games back it up being an actual absorption of the human world. What part of "wait for Gilver to bring the arguments in regards to demon resistance" do you not understand? Do I need to spell everything out for you every time I make a post or can you actually bother to read the post I made instead of skimming it?
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Right, the argument is that corrupting a realm with demonic influence isn't absorption, I just truncated it to "context" since I'd already provided my full reasoning. Not sure how that was missed but okay.
If you bother to read the album of five scans attached to the feat in the OP in the first place you could assess the context for yourself. Surely Gilver is not required for you to spoonfeed you information readily available?
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@Deagonx And your reasoning makes zero sense with how the demon world consumes the human world with what we've seen.
I did read the 5 scans, and Gilver said he'd make a full response to this CRT to provide additional context for the resistance feat, hence why I'm not giving my opinion until I see everything that's there to offer.
I did read the 5 scans, and Gilver said he'd make a full response to this CRT to provide additional context for the resistance feat, hence why I'm not giving my opinion until I see everything that's there to offer.
- 7,887
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- Thread starter
- #59
By replacing it/overwriting it. As I said, I don't see that as being absorption.
Did he say that on Discord or something? All he said here was that he was going to make an argument. Nothing about providing additional context.
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So you're just going to ignore the numerous times on it flat out saying it consumes the human world as its main way of "replacing it" ok good to know this debate is going nowhere.
Yes he did, so again I'm gonna wait until he provides the full argument, no amount of repeating the same point you've made is gonna change that.
Yes he did, so again I'm gonna wait until he provides the full argument, no amount of repeating the same point you've made is gonna change that.
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Because you're hyperfixating on the presence of the word "consume" to ignore the entire rest of the practical information about what that actually means in this context, which is not absorption but infection. The human realm isn't being absorbed, it's being corrupted. The scan literally says the Demon World is spreading out from the nexus. It may as well be the Corruption/Crimson from Terraria.
I've already said that, but the only response I've gotten has been pointing out the word consume like that's overrides everything else.
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So just like how you're hyperfixated on the word "replacement" ignoring the context on how it's replacing the human world in the first place? Not a good argument to make since it can be used right back at you.
Gilver literally hasn't responded with anything beyond "I'm making a response" so that's not an excuse to just have votes come in before the opposition gives a full response.
Gilver literally hasn't responded with anything beyond "I'm making a response" so that's not an excuse to just have votes come in before the opposition gives a full response.
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Sorry, for being late, been busy with work and all day and night.
But as I have already told, I'd make a full comprehensive response which should be done by midnight, which is when I get free from work.
Let's not strike conclusions before hearing out the verse supporters/opposition completely.
But as I have already told, I'd make a full comprehensive response which should be done by midnight, which is when I get free from work.
Let's not strike conclusions before hearing out the verse supporters/opposition completely.
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Except, I'm not. My entire paragraph in the comment you're responding to doesn't even contain the word replacement.
I mean, it can be thoughtlessly and inaccurately regurgitated in my direction. I don't see why that would degrade the quality of the argument.
Gilver will be the third person making an argument against the CRT.
KingNanaya
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can people not argue?
- 7,887
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I didn't say he couldn't, I was just rebutting the notion that the opposition hadn't responded yet.
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So first and foremost lets address the easiest topic to debunk, that somehow DW and BH have a caveat of not choosing to absorb demons, which is just frankly insane take with zero evidence and reverses burden of proof.
But I guess I must debunk this hot take anyway cuz I committed to it.
Demon World Absorption shenanigans
Demon Resistance
Beastheads shenanigans
But I guess I must debunk this hot take anyway cuz I committed to it.
Demon World Absorption shenanigans
First and and foremost DW absorbing HW is the most unequivocal thing in the verse because it is literally the history of the lore.
Anyone who has bothered to check the Tier 2 Blog for DMC can attest to that. It's one of the main reasons DMC has 2C ratings,
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
Lets summarize them shall we...
1) Mundus fusing DW and HW 2000 years ago because he wanted things to be how they were originally before Pluto split the worlds, a.k.a co-existing as one.
2) Void Mundus doing the same in DMC2 Novel, fusing HW into DW.
3) Argosax warping HW and absorbing it into DW, returning it to the original state of the World of Darkness.
4) Qlipoth doing same thing overtime, pulling HW towards DW while it absorbs everything and anything untill they are united.
Aside from these there is the Gilver's nexus feat, which is also relevant because he summoned a powerful nexus which was capable of consuming HW and replacing it with a new DW.
I don't understand the twisted logic of excluding the various DW nexus/bridgehead feats from Volume 1 novel, in the context of novel each bridgehead was capable of warping, consuming and replacing their target locations with their demonic world counterparts, and in case of Gilver's nexus which was the most powerful one, capable of consuming and replacing HW with a new DW entirely. Not unlike the Thing from the famed horror movie doing same to it's human victims. I don't see how consumption and replacement have to be contrary to each other when latter can come after the former very nicely, and last time I checked consumption does require intake/absorption or assimilation because that's the textbook definition/synonyms.
Anyways the warping and absorption process is default in the abilities of DWE which exists everywhere in DW and especially the various Bridgeheads and Nexus, for example.
DMC2
DMC Vol 1, The Oz Club, The Asylum, and finally the Bob's Cellar at end of novel which is already mentioned above.
Anyone who has bothered to check the Tier 2 Blog for DMC can attest to that. It's one of the main reasons DMC has 2C ratings,
Devil May Cry: Feats Summarized and Explained
vsbattles.fandom.com
Devil May Cry - Cosmology Explanation Page
Currently, we accept the feat of Pluto (Demon King who preceded Mundus) splitting the original universe into two separate ones, as per this explanation page. The demon world and human world are noted to be two separate universal space times. We already accept both being separate universes. For...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Lets summarize them shall we...
1) Mundus fusing DW and HW 2000 years ago because he wanted things to be how they were originally before Pluto split the worlds, a.k.a co-existing as one.
2) Void Mundus doing the same in DMC2 Novel, fusing HW into DW.
3) Argosax warping HW and absorbing it into DW, returning it to the original state of the World of Darkness.
4) Qlipoth doing same thing overtime, pulling HW towards DW while it absorbs everything and anything untill they are united.
Aside from these there is the Gilver's nexus feat, which is also relevant because he summoned a powerful nexus which was capable of consuming HW and replacing it with a new DW.
I don't understand the twisted logic of excluding the various DW nexus/bridgehead feats from Volume 1 novel, in the context of novel each bridgehead was capable of warping, consuming and replacing their target locations with their demonic world counterparts, and in case of Gilver's nexus which was the most powerful one, capable of consuming and replacing HW with a new DW entirely. Not unlike the Thing from the famed horror movie doing same to it's human victims. I don't see how consumption and replacement have to be contrary to each other when latter can come after the former very nicely, and last time I checked consumption does require intake/absorption or assimilation because that's the textbook definition/synonyms.
Anyways the warping and absorption process is default in the abilities of DWE which exists everywhere in DW and especially the various Bridgeheads and Nexus, for example.
DMC2
DMC Vol 1, The Oz Club, The Asylum, and finally the Bob's Cellar at end of novel which is already mentioned above.
Demon Resistance
The claim that demons are somehow selectively ignored by DWE and selectively targets only humans and thus demons shouldn't have resistance is utter garbage. This is backed by no evidence and is a complete reversal of burden of proof. The fact that they live and thrive in a deadly environment saturated in DWE is proof enough that they resist. The fact that they absorb said energy and get amps from it without suffering any ill effects is another alarming proof. If the DWE was avoiding touching demons because apparently they are snowflakes, how the *** is they absorbing the energy shit and getting stronger by it?
With that logic Superman shouldn't have resistance against extreme heat and radiation because Sun amps him not hurts him.
The mutants/evolved etc in Prototype shouldn't have resistance to Blacklight virus because it amps them.
Hulk shouldn't have resistance to Gamma Radiation because it amps him.
Hell forget fiction, this is real life logic and common sense.
Why do you think dust allergies and food allergies exist? Peanut is an extremely nutrient dense food for humans, but some people get life threatening allergies if they eat peanuts. Some people cannot tolerate milk or eggs etc. Some people get extreme sneezing or asthama from dust while majority won't from breathing simple dusty air. Some people get skin rashes from wild bushes rubbing against their skin. I know, above two things used to happen to me, although I have overcome the dust allergy and bush allergy to an extent. Same applies to diseases amongst humans, some people have excellent immunity due childhood diseases or vaccines while some don't and suffer in adult age because of it.
Same principle also applies interspecies, we can eat chocolate just fine but it's toxic for canines, conversely plenty of animals can eat poisonous mushrooms without ill effects which would be straight up deadly for humans. Some diseases we suffer against won't afflict other animals vice versa plenty of human diseases don't affect animals or plants.
In none of the cases above is peanut, milk, eggs or dust or bushes discriminating between different human beings, favouring a majority over minority. It's just that some humans have low resilience or immunity against certain things while others have it normal, unless you purposefully immunise youself against those things
This is the best example for DWE, because what will be toxic waste for one one species is nutritious food for another, DWE serves in same capacity. Demons are resilient to DWE and thrive on it, but humans can't.
Hell, the toxic nature of DWE is the main reason demons get amped and not get shanked. Demons by their very nature absorb and consume everything whether it's positive, negative or neutral nature they will assimilate it for power. But this especially important for DWE because demons thrive on negative shit, whether it's negative emotions like fear or insanity, sins and evil morality, giving and recieving pain etc. it's in their very nature to subsist on and evolve on basis of negative stuff, which DWE gives them in droves.
But there is a limit to that, exceptionally potent variants of DWE can affect certain demons depending on the individual resistances unless they evolve, for example Nobodies needed to evolve to survive the harsh world of DW. Meanwhile Demon Generals in alternate universe drop like flies when they get to main nexus of Void Mundus due to energy overload and they drop unconscious from pain. So unless we are talking about uber potent Nexus, Demons resist DWE is just fine.
The fact that humans are also transmuted into stone and trees is a big deal because they are becoming absorbed to be part of the demonic realm, because it proves that they are not just turning into demons and therefore demons are unaffected, the fact that demons don't become trees or become petrified speaks a lot.
With that logic Superman shouldn't have resistance against extreme heat and radiation because Sun amps him not hurts him.
The mutants/evolved etc in Prototype shouldn't have resistance to Blacklight virus because it amps them.
Hulk shouldn't have resistance to Gamma Radiation because it amps him.
Hell forget fiction, this is real life logic and common sense.
Why do you think dust allergies and food allergies exist? Peanut is an extremely nutrient dense food for humans, but some people get life threatening allergies if they eat peanuts. Some people cannot tolerate milk or eggs etc. Some people get extreme sneezing or asthama from dust while majority won't from breathing simple dusty air. Some people get skin rashes from wild bushes rubbing against their skin. I know, above two things used to happen to me, although I have overcome the dust allergy and bush allergy to an extent. Same applies to diseases amongst humans, some people have excellent immunity due childhood diseases or vaccines while some don't and suffer in adult age because of it.
Same principle also applies interspecies, we can eat chocolate just fine but it's toxic for canines, conversely plenty of animals can eat poisonous mushrooms without ill effects which would be straight up deadly for humans. Some diseases we suffer against won't afflict other animals vice versa plenty of human diseases don't affect animals or plants.
In none of the cases above is peanut, milk, eggs or dust or bushes discriminating between different human beings, favouring a majority over minority. It's just that some humans have low resilience or immunity against certain things while others have it normal, unless you purposefully immunise youself against those things
This is the best example for DWE, because what will be toxic waste for one one species is nutritious food for another, DWE serves in same capacity. Demons are resilient to DWE and thrive on it, but humans can't.
Hell, the toxic nature of DWE is the main reason demons get amped and not get shanked. Demons by their very nature absorb and consume everything whether it's positive, negative or neutral nature they will assimilate it for power. But this especially important for DWE because demons thrive on negative shit, whether it's negative emotions like fear or insanity, sins and evil morality, giving and recieving pain etc. it's in their very nature to subsist on and evolve on basis of negative stuff, which DWE gives them in droves.
But there is a limit to that, exceptionally potent variants of DWE can affect certain demons depending on the individual resistances unless they evolve, for example Nobodies needed to evolve to survive the harsh world of DW. Meanwhile Demon Generals in alternate universe drop like flies when they get to main nexus of Void Mundus due to energy overload and they drop unconscious from pain. So unless we are talking about uber potent Nexus, Demons resist DWE is just fine.
The fact that humans are also transmuted into stone and trees is a big deal because they are becoming absorbed to be part of the demonic realm, because it proves that they are not just turning into demons and therefore demons are unaffected, the fact that demons don't become trees or become petrified speaks a lot.
Beastheads shenanigans
Honestly Beastheads is same situation as DWE as far as demons resistance go, so much in fact that they are practially the same thing.
But before that let's look at this,
The novel outright mentions demons having resistance to general abilities of demons, this alone kills any and all downplay. Second thing, just like DWE above as I explained, Beastheads acting as power transformers for Demons by converting humans to energy is in no way shape or form a proof that Beastheads are not designed to affect demon or actively do not hax demons, because it's not even a contradiction in the first place.
2nd thing, the energy is technically how the consumption is carried out by Beastheads, as seen here , Ducas a human was overrun by Beastheads energy, said energy is the actual reason Ducas was disintegrated and absorbed, same energy consumed by demons without any ill effects.
Also remember when I said DWE and Beastheads are same thing, that is literal. People would have found it if only they read Physiology page properly.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Also bonus
So that should bury all BH,DWE and Demon resistances downplay in 6 feet underground.
But before that let's look at this,
The novel outright mentions demons having resistance to general abilities of demons, this alone kills any and all downplay. Second thing, just like DWE above as I explained, Beastheads acting as power transformers for Demons by converting humans to energy is in no way shape or form a proof that Beastheads are not designed to affect demon or actively do not hax demons, because it's not even a contradiction in the first place.
2nd thing, the energy is technically how the consumption is carried out by Beastheads, as seen here , Ducas a human was overrun by Beastheads energy, said energy is the actual reason Ducas was disintegrated and absorbed, same energy consumed by demons without any ill effects.
Also remember when I said DWE and Beastheads are same thing, that is literal. People would have found it if only they read Physiology page properly.
Demon Physiology (Devil May Cry)
Demons are the most common enemies in the Devil May Cry game series, appearing in all media involving the title. Most demons are generally very selfish, power-hungry, and cruel; often seeking to increase their own power or influence at the expense of either other demons or humans. Very rarely do...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Beastheads literally and directly derive their powers from DWE, it's mechanism of working acts like portal to pull energy from Demon World for use, hence 9/10 hax and powers are same as DWE and hence we write it as same for resistance for demons on physiology page. No wonder demons have another proof and reason to resist Beastheads. The only unique powers Beastheads has which is impressive is busted BFR, Blursed Fate and uber Cosmic awareness.
Also bonus
So that should bury all BH,DWE and Demon resistances downplay in 6 feet underground.
Now tackling the original topic of OP
First of all the surface of Saviour's exterior is permeable, literally described as if it were incorporeal by Nero, which allows Saviour to absorb stuff freely. The notion that Sanctus has to manually activate said ability makes no sense when by default absorption properties are possessed by Saviour's skin, because as the scan says that's what allows him to move freely in and out of Saviour and same principle allows Kyrie to remain trapped in it, used as bait and switch constantly by Sanctus as shown in video.
Second, Nero is there stuck in Saviour's hand for long time even after Sanctus took Yamato, if Nero is truly helpless against absorption, Sanctus could have him digested at anytime, but he didn't.
Instead he chose stab Yamato into Devil Bringer.
Now some people say that getting Yamato spalshed with blood is somehow serving an external purpose which is why Sanctus did it. What the said purpose is, is not something justified by opposition here at all.
Let's steelman this point for arguements sake, what does that actually change for Yamato nulling Nero? Nothing! Like we have direct visuals of Nero getting power nulled. We don't need statements at that point.
It's a unequivocal fact as shown in the game that Yamato was used to negate Nero. His Devil Bringer lost it's glow and powers.
Another point I saw braught up was that Nero's blood was needed for Statue. Which makes no sense, Nero is already getting absorbed and assimilated there in body and soul. What purpose is removing extra blood doing?
If anything, it actually explicitly proves resistance for Nero. If drawing blood was explicit requirement for making Nero absorbable, then that means Nero was incapable of being absorbed prior to fullfilling this blood prerequisite. That automatically fullfills resistance requirements LMFAO.
And all of this is still extra compared to graphic showcase of power null done by stabbing Yamato into Nero. Which still stands unrefuted.
Another point that is being braught is this Yamato plus Nero's blood required for final stages of plan. And when asked what final stage of plan is, the answer given to us by OP is Hellgate opening.
At that point the only thing left to say is that OP and Co. has extremely limited knowledge of the game and it's lore.
The final stage of plan has always been using Saviour to play a false god and bring impress the people into worshipping the Order for world domination and recreation.
Saviour was made for literally that purpose.
Unfortunately when Saviour was created, it was inoperable despite it's immense power. Agnus had almost give up hope on it.
Up untill this point Yamato existed as broken pieces, being experimented on by Agnus. Which is what allowed Agnus to create false HellGates, which facilitated creation of Saviour in the first place by providing large amount of demons.
But Yamato still remains broken, unable of being fixed, and the plan to open true HellGate is a pipedream.
Then they find out Dante and Sparda sword exist, both together capable of supplying large power to Saviour and controll it successfully. Nevermind that any attempt to capture or outsmart Dante into Saviour would have been futile for obvious reasons, admitted by Agnus himself. And Yamato is still broken, which means it's still not a priority to open the main Hellgate.
It's only chance luck that Nero encounters Agnus and Yamato and ends up fixing the blade, proving he is descendant of Sparda. From then on the variables changed.
Opening of Main HellGate is actually possible now, and Nero serves as excellent substitute to replace Dante.
All that I have said is covered in novel, here.
All in all this blood connection thing with Yamato for Hellgate is completely nil. It has nothing to do with it.
Because ever since the Order found broken Yamato, they always wished to unlock main Hellgate, well before Nero ever came into picture. His blood wasn't prerequisite back then not is it now.
_--------x---------x-----
TLDR
Visuals of power null are blatant, and have no satisfactory counter.
There's no connection between Hellgate and Nero's blood with Yamato.
Blood being needed as a prerequisite to have Nero get absorbed actually proves he had resistance originally, otherwise Saviour cannot absorb him normally.
Saviour doesn't need actively absorb anything, his exterior by itself is permeable in nature, pretty much any demonic entity can get absorbed in it upon contact.
First of all the surface of Saviour's exterior is permeable, literally described as if it were incorporeal by Nero, which allows Saviour to absorb stuff freely. The notion that Sanctus has to manually activate said ability makes no sense when by default absorption properties are possessed by Saviour's skin, because as the scan says that's what allows him to move freely in and out of Saviour and same principle allows Kyrie to remain trapped in it, used as bait and switch constantly by Sanctus as shown in video.
Second, Nero is there stuck in Saviour's hand for long time even after Sanctus took Yamato, if Nero is truly helpless against absorption, Sanctus could have him digested at anytime, but he didn't.
Instead he chose stab Yamato into Devil Bringer.
Now some people say that getting Yamato spalshed with blood is somehow serving an external purpose which is why Sanctus did it. What the said purpose is, is not something justified by opposition here at all.
Let's steelman this point for arguements sake, what does that actually change for Yamato nulling Nero? Nothing! Like we have direct visuals of Nero getting power nulled. We don't need statements at that point.
It's a unequivocal fact as shown in the game that Yamato was used to negate Nero. His Devil Bringer lost it's glow and powers.
Another point I saw braught up was that Nero's blood was needed for Statue. Which makes no sense, Nero is already getting absorbed and assimilated there in body and soul. What purpose is removing extra blood doing?
If anything, it actually explicitly proves resistance for Nero. If drawing blood was explicit requirement for making Nero absorbable, then that means Nero was incapable of being absorbed prior to fullfilling this blood prerequisite. That automatically fullfills resistance requirements LMFAO.
And all of this is still extra compared to graphic showcase of power null done by stabbing Yamato into Nero. Which still stands unrefuted.
Another point that is being braught is this Yamato plus Nero's blood required for final stages of plan. And when asked what final stage of plan is, the answer given to us by OP is Hellgate opening.
At that point the only thing left to say is that OP and Co. has extremely limited knowledge of the game and it's lore.
The final stage of plan has always been using Saviour to play a false god and bring impress the people into worshipping the Order for world domination and recreation.
Saviour was made for literally that purpose.
Unfortunately when Saviour was created, it was inoperable despite it's immense power. Agnus had almost give up hope on it.
Up untill this point Yamato existed as broken pieces, being experimented on by Agnus. Which is what allowed Agnus to create false HellGates, which facilitated creation of Saviour in the first place by providing large amount of demons.
But Yamato still remains broken, unable of being fixed, and the plan to open true HellGate is a pipedream.
Then they find out Dante and Sparda sword exist, both together capable of supplying large power to Saviour and controll it successfully. Nevermind that any attempt to capture or outsmart Dante into Saviour would have been futile for obvious reasons, admitted by Agnus himself. And Yamato is still broken, which means it's still not a priority to open the main Hellgate.
It's only chance luck that Nero encounters Agnus and Yamato and ends up fixing the blade, proving he is descendant of Sparda. From then on the variables changed.
Opening of Main HellGate is actually possible now, and Nero serves as excellent substitute to replace Dante.
All that I have said is covered in novel, here.
All in all this blood connection thing with Yamato for Hellgate is completely nil. It has nothing to do with it.
Because ever since the Order found broken Yamato, they always wished to unlock main Hellgate, well before Nero ever came into picture. His blood wasn't prerequisite back then not is it now.
_--------x---------x-----
TLDR
Visuals of power null are blatant, and have no satisfactory counter.
There's no connection between Hellgate and Nero's blood with Yamato.
Blood being needed as a prerequisite to have Nero get absorbed actually proves he had resistance originally, otherwise Saviour cannot absorb him normally.
Saviour doesn't need actively absorb anything, his exterior by itself is permeable in nature, pretty much any demonic entity can get absorbed in it upon contact.
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Looks aite, but me being a CGM means my vote is useless.So first and foremost lets address the easiest topic to debunk, that somehow DW and BH have a caveat of not choosing to absorb demons, which is just frankly insane take with zero evidence and reverses burden of proof.
But I guess I must debunk this hot take anyway cuz I committed to it.
Demon World Absorption shenanigans
First and and foremost DW absorbing HW is the most unequivocal thing in the verse because it is literally the history of the lore.
Anyone who has bothered to check the Tier 2 Blog for DMC can attest to that. It's one of the main reasons DMC has 2C ratings,
Devil May Cry: Feats Summarized and Explained
Devil May Cry - Cosmology Explanation Page
Currently, we accept the feat of Pluto (Demon King who preceded Mundus) splitting the original universe into two separate ones, as per this explanation page. The demon world and human world are noted to be two separate universal space times. We already accept both being separate universes. For...
Lets summarize them shall we...
1) Mundus fusing DW and HW 2000 years ago because he wanted things to be how they were originally before Pluto split the worlds, a.k.a co-existing as one.
2) Void Mundus doing the same in DMC2 Novel, fusing HW into DW.
3) Argosax warping HW and absorbing it into DW, returning it to the original state of the World of Darkness.
4) Qlipoth doing same thing overtime, pulling HW towards DW while it absorbs everything and anything untill they are united.
Aside from these there is the Gilver's nexus feat, which is also relevant because he summoned a powerful nexus which was capable of consuming HW and replacing it with a new DW.
I don't understand the twisted logic of excluding the various DW nexus/bridgehead feats from Volume 1 novel, in the context of novel each bridgehead was capable of warping, consuming and replacing their target locations with their demonic world counterparts, and in case of Gilver's nexus which was the most powerful one, capable of consuming and replacing HW with a new DW entirely. Not unlike the Thing from the famed horror movie doing same to it's human victims. I don't see how consumption and replacement have to be contrary to each other when latter can come after the former very nicely, and last time I checked consumption does require intake/absorption or assimilation because that's the textbook definition/synonyms.
Anyways the warping and absorption process is default in the abilities of DWE which exists everywhere in DW and especially the various Bridgeheads and Nexus, for example.
DMC2
DMC Vol 1, The Oz Club, The Asylum, and finally the Bob's Cellar at end of novel which is already mentioned above.
Demon Resistance
The claim that demons are somehow selectively ignored by DWE and selectively targets only humans and thus demons shouldn't have resistance is utter garbage. This is backed by no evidence and is a complete reversal of burden of proof. The fact that they live and thrive in a deadly environment saturated in DWE is proof enough that they resist. The fact that they absorb said energy and get amps from it without suffering any ill effects is another alarming proof. If the DWE was avoiding touching demons because apparently they are snowflakes, how the *** is they absorbing the energy shit and getting stronger by it?
With that logic Superman shouldn't have resistance against extreme heat and radiation because Sun amps him not hurts him.
The mutants/evolved etc in Prototype shouldn't have resistance to Blacklight virus because it amps them.
Hulk shouldn't have resistance to Gamma Radiation because it amps him.
Hell forget fiction, this is real life logic and common sense.
Why do you think dust allergies and food allergies exist? Peanut is an extremely nutrient dense food for humans, but some people get life threatening allergies if they eat peanuts. Some people cannot tolerate milk or eggs etc. Some people get extreme sneezing or asthama from dust while majority won't from breathing simple dusty air. Some people get skin rashes from wild bushes rubbing against their skin. I know, above two things used to happen to me, although I have overcome the dust allergy and bush allergy to an extent. Same applies to diseases amongst humans, some people have excellent immunity due childhood diseases or vaccines while some don't and suffer in adult age because of it.
Same principle also applies interspecies, we can eat chocolate just fine but it's toxic for canines, conversely plenty of animals can eat poisonous mushrooms without ill effects which would be straight up deadly for humans. Some diseases we suffer against won't afflict other animals vice versa plenty of human diseases don't affect animals or plants.
In none of the cases above is peanut, milk, eggs or dust or bushes discriminating between different human beings, favouring a majority over minority. It's just that some humans have low resilience or immunity against certain things while others have it normal, unless you purposefully immunise youself against those things
This is the best example for DWE, because what will be toxic waste for one one species is nutritious food for another, DWE serves in same capacity. Demons are resilient to DWE and thrive on it, but humans can't.
Hell, the toxic nature of DWE is the main reason demons get amped and not get shanked. Demons by their very nature absorb and consume everything whether it's positive, negative or neutral nature they will assimilate it for power. But this especially important for DWE because demons thrive on negative shit, whether it's negative emotions like fear or insanity, sins and evil morality, giving and recieving pain etc. it's in their very nature to subsist on and evolve on basis of negative stuff, which DWE gives them in droves.
But there is a limit to that, exceptionally potent variants of DWE can affect certain demons depending on the individual resistances unless they evolve, for example Nobodies needed to evolve to survive the harsh world of DW. Meanwhile Demon Generals in alternate universe drop like flies when they get to main nexus of Void Mundus due to energy overload and they drop unconscious from pain. So unless we are talking about uber potent Nexus, Demons resist DWE is just fine.
The fact that humans are also transmuted into stone and trees is a big deal because they are becoming absorbed to be part of the demonic realm, because it proves that they are not just turning into demons and therefore demons are unaffected, the fact that demons don't become trees or become petrified speaks a lot.
Beastheads shenanigans
Honestly Beastheads is same situation as DWE as far as demons resistance go, so much in fact that they are practially the same thing.
But before that let's look at this,
The novel outright mentions demons having resistance to general abilities of demons, this alone kills any and all downplay. Second thing, just like DWE above as I explained, Beastheads acting as power transformers for Demons by converting humans to energy is in no way shape or form a proof that Beastheads are not designed to affect demon or actively do not hax demons, because it's not even a contradiction in the first place.
2nd thing, the energy is technically how the consumption is carried out by Beastheads, as seen here , Ducas a human was overrun by Beastheads energy, said energy is the actual reason Ducas was disintegrated and absorbed, same energy consumed by demons without any ill effects.
Also remember when I said DWE and Beastheads are same thing, that is literal. People would have found it if only they read Physiology page properly.
Demon Physiology (Devil May Cry)
Demons are the most common enemies in the Devil May Cry game series, appearing in all media involving the title. Most demons are generally very selfish, power-hungry, and cruel; often seeking to increase their own power or influence at the expense of either other demons or humans. Very rarely do...
Beastheads literally and directly derive their powers from DWE, it's mechanism of working acts like portal to pull energy from Demon World for use, hence 9/10 hax and powers are same as DWE and hence we write it as same for resistance for demons on physiology page. No wonder demons have another proof and reason to resist Beastheads. The only unique powers Beastheads has which is impressive is busted BFR, Blursed Fate and uber Cosmic awareness.
Also bonus
So that should bury all BH,DWE and Demon resistances downplay in 6 feet underground.
Now tackling the original topic of OP
First of all the surface of Saviour's exterior is permeable, literally described as if it were incorporeal by Nero, which allows Saviour to absorb stuff freely. The notion that Sanctus has to manually activate said ability makes no sense when by default absorption properties are possessed by Saviour's skin, because as the scan says that's what allows him to move freely in and out of Saviour and same principle allows Kyrie to remain trapped in it, used as bait and switch constantly by Sanctus as shown in video.
Second, Nero is there stuck in Saviour's hand for long time even after Sanctus took Yamato, if Nero is truly helpless against absorption, Sanctus could have him digested at anytime, but he didn't.
Instead he chose stab Yamato into Devil Bringer.
Now some people say that getting Yamato spalshed with blood is somehow serving an external purpose which is why Sanctus did it. What the said purpose is, is not something justified by opposition here at all.
Let's steelman this point for arguements sake, what does that actually change for Yamato nulling Nero? Nothing! Like we have direct visuals of Nero getting power nulled. We don't need statements at that point.
It's a unequivocal fact as shown in the game that Yamato was used to negate Nero. His Devil Bringer lost it's glow and powers.
Another point I saw braught up was that Nero's blood was needed for Statue. Which makes no sense, Nero is already getting absorbed and assimilated there in body and soul. What purpose is removing extra blood doing?
If anything, it actually explicitly proves resistance for Nero. If drawing blood was explicit requirement for making Nero absorbable, then that means Nero was incapable of being absorbed prior to fullfilling this blood prerequisite. That automatically fullfills resistance requirements LMFAO.
And all of this is still extra compared to graphic showcase of power null done by stabbing Yamato into Nero. Which still stands unrefuted.
Another point that is being braught is this Yamato plus Nero's blood required for final stages of plan. And when asked what final stage of plan is, the answer given to us by OP is Hellgate opening.
At that point the only thing left to say is that OP and Co. has extremely limited knowledge of the game and it's lore.
The final stage of plan has always been using Saviour to play a false god and bring impress the people into worshipping the Order for world domination and recreation.
Saviour was made for literally that purpose.
Unfortunately when Saviour was created, it was inoperable despite it's immense power. Agnus had almost give up hope on it.
Up untill this point Yamato existed as broken pieces, being experimented on by Agnus. Which is what allowed Agnus to create false HellGates, which facilitated creation of Saviour in the first place by providing large amount of demons.
But Yamato still remains broken, unable of being fixed, and the plan to open true HellGate is a pipedream.
Then they find out Dante and Sparda sword exist, both together capable of supplying large power to Saviour and controll it successfully. Nevermind that any attempt to capture or outsmart Dante into Saviour would have been futile for obvious reasons, admitted by Agnus himself. And Yamato is still broken, which means it's still not a priority to open the main Hellgate.
It's only chance luck that Nero encounters Agnus and Yamato and ends up fixing the blade, proving he is descendant of Sparda. From then on the variables changed.
Opening of Main HellGate is actually possible now, and Nero serves as excellent substitute to replace Dante.
All that I have said is covered in novel, here.
All in all this blood connection thing with Yamato for Hellgate is completely nil. It has nothing to do with it.
Because ever since the Order found broken Yamato, they always wished to unlock main Hellgate, well before Nero ever came into picture. His blood wasn't prerequisite back then not is it now.
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TLDR
Visuals of power null are blatant, and have no satisfactory counter.
There's no connection between Hellgate and Nero's blood with Yamato.
Blood being needed as a prerequisite to have Nero get absorbed actually proves he had resistance originally, otherwise Saviour cannot absorb him normally.
Saviour doesn't need actively absorb anything, his exterior by itself is permeable in nature, pretty much any demonic entity can get absorbed in it upon contact.
@Maverick_Zero_X @LordGriffin1000 @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus What do you think of this?
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This wasn't my argument. No one claimed the Demon World "chooses" not to absorb demons and only chooses to absorb humans. The Demon world, quite clearly, does not absorb humans or demons. The alleged "absorption" feat is corrupting the human world with Demon influence.
Neither human nor Demon can "resist" this because they are not the target, the environment around them is, and they cannot "resist" the world around them becoming demonic. That's not logical. The fact that the Demon world inflicts status debuffs to humans doesn't give demons "absorption resistance."
This is.... also not my argument? The Vicar needed to combine the sword with the blood of a descendant of Sparda. It wasn't something he needed to do to absorb Nero.
Neither the novelization nor the scene in the game actually suggest this. His hand stops glowing some time after he gets stabbed but it's never indicated that the sword took away his power.
Really weird to me that both of your arguments were directed that some Frankenstein version of my position.
This is plainly contradicted by the evidence. The Saviour is a solid statue, it only absorbs what the Vicar wants it to, and he didn't want to absorb Nero until he had gotten his blood on the sword to fulfill his plan (which is something he directly states.)
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1) The Asylum scene literally has Jessica become a tree, which is the main power source for that nexus, ya know clearly something which is part of environment. Which is in practicality just means getting absorbed into nexus.
2) You do realise demons or humans would still exist in said environment? If environment is getting absorbed, they will also get wrapped up in that consequence.
3) The DWE has multitude of hax, while debuff hax does exist, it doesn't stop the absorption from being a thing, like Beastheads is directly using said DW energy to breakdown human body and souls to energy to absorb them.
So you claim, but for what purpose does blood need to be combined?
The glow starts fading away literally after he gets stabbed, and he clearly presented to be powerless, earlier he was launching Devil Bringer ethereal hands to smack Sanctus, after getting stabbed he goes weak.
I never said statue was not physical or not solid, which has honestly nothing to do with absorption. Like plenty of solid materials in real world can absorb range of stuff.
A supernatural solid made from demon matter and souls being able to absorb more demonic/human material upon physical contact isn't far fetched.
Like the exterior is literally called as if it were incorporeal in context of absorption, same principle allowed Kyrie to move in and out of Saviour at Sanctus whim.
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There's no information that supports this being a passive effect on all humans who enter the Demon World and there's actually explicit information that contradicts that. All it says is that she was ensnared by Eldritch forces and reshaped into a mockery of life. Jessica specifically getting snatched up by a demon tree doesn't mean there's a passive "absorption" aura throughout the entire demon world.
And neither of them are resisting it. The environment changing around them is not something they can "resist."
Not playing this game. I didn't claim it, the vicar did himself:
This is direct from the novelization. The vicar literally looks at Yamato and says he needs to combine it with Sparda blood. Not "once I stab you and deactivate your resistance" or any such headcanon being written here. It is "once I combine your sparda blood with this sword."
That's the only reason Nero didn't get absorbed instantly, the vicar didn't want him to be absorbed right away, he needed to get some of Nero's blood.
Right, at Sanctus' whim. Similarly, Nero was absorbed at Sanctus' whim. He never had a resistance to this, Sanctus just didn't want to absorb him prior to getting his blood.
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Agree to disagree
You haven't understood then. I am asking for what purpose is blood needed to be combined with sword.
Get his blood for what?
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This is included in the vicar's quote:
When Yamato and the blood are combined they'll be able to proceed to the final stage of their ultimate goal.
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And what is that "final stage of ultimate goal" exactly if I may request a very accurate answer on that?
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Deagon already answered this, but you're kinda derailing from the point. Why he needs Nero's blood is irrelevant; The fact of the matter is, he needs it for whatever reason, and therefore would have no reason to absorb him until he's done taking his blood.
This is derailing. Address Deagon's points or don't post at all.
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The wiki will be judge of that Fuji, not you or Deagon.
This is clear cut deflection and denial.
Now answer my question.
This is clear cut deflection and denial.
Now answer my question.
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That is a discussion between him and Gilver, I don’t think someone needs a speaker to speak for themselves,it is not derailing when whatever Nero’s blood was needed is one of the points within the Op in order to conclude it.
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The novelization does not specify. All we are told is that he needs to combine the blood and Yamato to proceed with his plan. That is the reason Nero was not absorbed immediately.
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Translation
You have no idea. You are just spouting headcanons because you have little to zero meaningful knowledge about the source material. Just slinging mud on the wall and hoping something sticks.
You could have atleast said final plan was using Saviour for playing God lmfao.
Anyways, I have already handled the potential blood arguements.
So I am satisfied with my arguements.
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Why would I need to know? The fact remains that the vicar needing to combine Yamato with Nero's blood absolutely debunks your argument, as it explains the entire sequence without ever needing to write headcanon about Nero having a resistance or Yamato deactivating that resistance.
The vicar's plan required combining the sword with blood of a descendent of Sparda. That's all the information we need as it pertains to this CRT.
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