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if Dante was able to sense him he'll know that Vergil is alive post 1, which he didn't, and no Vergil's didn't take years to regenerate, his regen time is unknown and even it wasn't it could be down to regen neg again, him overcoming it through his RE (which we know could enhanced resistances, especially to regen neg) is the most likely explanation to whydo you have any scans whatsoever that proves Dante was unable to sense Vergil’s soul? Either way this doesn’t exactly help the sparda heritage demons when Vergil took a long ass time to come back. That same scene also has Vergil telling Dante to “heal his wounds” and get strong so the possibility that Urizen just was too weak to the point he can’t heal properly is an explanation as well
so you do agree the soul isn't being destroyed? so what the hell does this have to do with regen?No I said it only sucks your soul away as stated by Jester. Also it’s not just a game over screen. Idk how many times must I repeat myself but you literally have a cutscene of Dante being ****** over by the Neo Generator and Jester mocking him how it’s affecting him too and he doesn’t have much time. And Dante failing to do what jester tells him results in him dying in DT. No here’s the difference, we get actual statements on specific weapons being able to negate regeneration. Neo generator lacks said statement and just sucks your soul away. Why are we assuming regen neg as opposed to this being an actual weakness for Dante or anyone in sparda heritage level?
funny how you mention this when you didn't even post the enemy file anywhere here, so there wasn't anything for me to ignore in the first place. the saying "you need to escape from death" is very flowery & vague, its not proper ground for dismissing anythingAgain Lore matters here which you seem to ignore a lot when it doesn’t suit your end. It’s literally stated in the enemy files to rip one’s soul out and how you need to escape from death. If ripping Dante’s soul out can kill him, something already proven in 3, then he wouldn’t be able to regenerate on that level. Simple as that.
No. it isn't, the weapons that Dante uses are clearly physical objects, and they aren't souls, the non-physical aspect of them or what we see as a small shining light is the soul in this case.No it’s not an infinitesmal part of their being when it’s literally their own soul. Prove it right now that Devil arms are a small fraction of their soul and I’ll concede on that point. So we’re just gonna ignore the normal dealers Dante goes to whenever he dumps his Devil Arms away in lore? Normal ******* people that isn’t V? Ok.
The devil arm being the physical manifestation always was a thing since Deadly Fortune vol 2 novel and Before the NightmareNo Cerberus flat out saying “take my soul and go forth” only to shatter his entire body and turning into the weapon doesn’t prove that his body is the soul, that just proves his soul is the weapon itself. What kind of logic are you pulling here where you’re saying the body is also the soul? When was that a thing?
The first argument I have dropped so there is no need to discuss it anymore@Deadguy i don’t think you understand what my problem is. It’s not the demons losing their soul, it’s the demons dying by their soul being destroyed, the losing soul part is for the sparda heritage characters.
also Nero didn’t do that feat by himself, that was exclusively Yamato that did it for him so that’s not even a natural feat for Nero.
Mundus was in pieces the next time we see him so he doesn’t even do much regen in the first place. He’s literally crawling after getting the shit kicked out of him. Also Nelo’s feat is non combat applicable so it’s not really that useful.
Mr Glass:- The Fallen Priest's Existence Erasure and immortality type 5
- Morning Banshee's Immortality types 4 & 8
- The Angel of Damnation's Curse Manipulation, Negation, and Healing
- Kanigam's Clairvoyance
- 2-C Sparda Inheritance Resistance to EE & Curse Manipulation and Immortality Negation Type 5 (Types 4 and 8 Negation are under discussion)
- And finally the book of demons
As far as I know, Dante never lost his soul and had to heal it, the closest example of this could be Nelo Angelo's feat (Dante would scale), which, honestly, I'm not really sure myself what happened on that case anymore, but I remember some sources implying his soul went boom on that occasion. Even if it did, we know that said event did a massive damage on Vergil and he never fully healed of it, eventually needing Yamato, like we saw in DMC5Dante is NOT a full blood demon, he’s part human part demon. There’s a very distinct difference here, also the whole soul ending stuff he’s experienced, did he lose his soul in any of those instances and regenerate his soul? If so I’d like to see scans of that, if not then it’s going off of assumptions here especially when Sparda Heritage demons aren’t comparable.
so yeah neo generator being able to kill Dante is very questionable at best
About Low 1-C demon world
We can understand the Demon world is also envolved in the creation of demons, this fits perfectly if you consider the Demon world birthing around said Primordial chaos/darkness and like is stated here, the demon world becomes said primordial chaos/darkness in the second page.
Not only that, but we also have scans where Humans when they die, they also return to the demon world, with specific cases where souls of humans going to specific places of the demon world depending on the sin commited before death and
which also makes connection to this scan where souls returning to the demon world will turn into demons.
Not only that but V himself says this when killing demons:
Scan 1:
Scan 2:
Yes exactly what i have typed, they return to the demon world
Even game V when finishing enemies will say this
''return to the underworld'' Which again, they return to the demon world, not to some plane that exists beyond it.
From what i see, there's overwhelming proof that justifies 9th Dimension being the demon world itself or somewhere in the Demon world.
Read carefully, the context in the interview says when human dies in specific on DMC3 (while the ideia came from DMC2), so by all means the people that died in DMC3 turned into SIN demons also, the corruption thing also occours too there's sequence of events happening, either by returning to the demon world and not being able to overcome the demon world/ demonic energy/essence or just by interacting with those demons like i said, there's sequence of events happening; We take look at Msira's profile in dmc2, its basically a avatar of greed, looking at the graphic arts, it also says '' people who have been consumed by evil'', going with DMC 3 we see that Arkham turns into this mass of demonic form based on his heart after not being able to handle sparda's power, to note that he goes from sparda form to this mass of demonic body, which goes along with what its showed in the Deadly fortune novel vol 1 (basically DMC4's novel) where the shape of the demon form is based in the subconscious, the ascension tries to give people demonic energy/essence, which if the person fails at the ceremony, they will go berserk instead of retaining their conscious, which goes along with people turning into demons based on their unconscious desires, so yes people don't need to become Msira or Sin demons by default, its up to the subconscious desire of the individual. I could have answered this with less text, but i decided to give context.This is ******* wrong, as DMC2 shows they become demons because the demon world corrupts them, not because they naturally transition into demons.
The way he's tasked to manage the souls is up to interpretation, could be him taking the souls, him not having to physically interfere and just making sure the souls returns and if needed returns to specific places in the demon world (in the case of Hell sins).There is a demon (Hell Vanguard) who specifically manages souls and with this knowledge is easy to assume it is that demon who sends them to the hells where they are punished by the sins, not that they need to go there.
As a closing point I would like you to stay on track of the thread and what the OP is. AP isn't in debate anymore nor is the scaling of this dimension/chaos to the demon world.
The only thing i said about dimensions is the 9th dimension being the DW or somewhere in the DW.I going to ignore dimensionality stuff since that ain't my area of knowledge,.
The nero argument doesn't work, he only regenerated his melted body back, Yamato is the reason his soul and memories were restored. The whole debacle is here https://vsbattles.com/threads/this-...-of-sparda-devil-may-cry.118150/#post-3879766 but to summarize there is no more Nero inside the savior, there is no more demons, they all became the savior and nothing else. That's why Dante specifically needed the Yamato do save him.
The problem here that it will clearly create a contradiction here because the novels pretty much supports that nero is within the savior because dante said that he is hidden somewhere in the savior because if he totally merged with it then it wouldn't matter in which spot he is held by
I will argue that the gems in the savior is what stopping him from regenerating back because when dante destroyed one of them we immediately get to the scene of nero waking up and started to remember himself and other people as which we know the mind and memories are contained within the soul proofing that got melted with his body as well
Nero stated that when he woke up he tried to do something but couldn't because he didn't completely come back because(logically)there is still the other gems in the savior
Dante himself stated that he was sensing nero and his feelings inside there as well which is the reason why he start attacking the gem on the savior chest that leads to the core by using rebellion
and mind you this all happened before dante thinking to use yamato to free him so if nero lost his individuality none that would have happened and those statements honestly seems vague and more of a metaphorical especially alot of it comes from sanctus the guy have god complex and believes himself to be destined to rule and says high shit about himself and the savior so which do you pick as a strongor evidence?A flowery language vs an actual scene happening? it's pretty clear how things goes
The Mundus feat is too vague to be used to justify High Godly as its only stated he was "destroyed" which can mean a variety of things but to use it for HG needs more context. The only feat that supports this is Vergil/Nelo, a half demon who took 10 years to come back.
I don't see how it's vague you even have statements that dante final attack made mundus completely vanish
and it's not flowery at all that dante can completely eradicate someone if he wanted to just like how he did to nelo,argosax and echidna and also "he couldn't have destroyed his soul with it" argument wouldn't make sense at all because dante who can see souls believed that he actually killed mundus
While I'm neutral about the High-Godly regeneration as it has quite a lot of anti feats but if it somehow goes through the twins and anyone who follows (half/quarter demons) won't scale based on Vergil needing 10 years to come back from that.
I have one problem with this and it's more out of curiosity but from where did you get that vergil needed 10 years to regenerate because I'm pretty sure we treat that feat as unknown in time he took to come back
Also I want to address those two real quicki don’t see regen negation on his page so where is that exactly?
When the hell was the Neo Generator a man made demonic weapon?
No problem.@Antvasima
I honestly would like to thank you for your support with this mess of a thread and I'm sorry we are bothering you with it, hopefully we can finish it soon enough.
@Deadguy You do realize Sealing someone away has nothing to do with their regenerative factors right? Also again, even if we're taking this as a regen feat it's not natural for Nero as he needed Yamato to get out.
Again you need explicity proof that Mundus's entire body and soul and well... entire existence was gone to prove high godly, this is way too vague to justify high godly.
Ok, that again doesn't explain the regeneration negation for the neo generator when it doesn't have a statement on negging regen, just sucking away one's soul. Which is still capable of killing dante.
Okay. No problem.@Antvasima We just need to finish this discussion, after that we'll give the TL;DR of our points and you can call staff members.
Then you need to check demon physiology page in sparda inheritance section plus Abigail is a god tier in the verse meaning low high regeneration isn't his limits and scales to the god tiers regeneration level and I already addressed why it's not yamato feat in my response to tony so counter that first@Deadguy I'm 90% sure low high was scaling to Abigail's blood regeneration and not from Savior's melting feat. If it was the latter then it's flat out wrong as Nero needed yamato to come back.
No, you're arguing that he has the level of regeneration on a High Godly level. That's not something you can get with a random "destroy" statement as pieces of mundus can still remain despite being destroyed. Unless you have scans that he got erased down to his soul/name, it's a massive stretch to assume this from a vague destruction statement.
Lightning also agreed with me that we shouldn't disregard the Neo Generator as it's not a literal game mechanic and has lore showings of being harmful for dante, and again all it does is suck his soul away.
Wel meh doesn't matter if it was accepted by mistake or not what matters now if this nero feat which I provided in my response against tony argument so if you disagree then you need to address that as wellNo I’m talking about way before the major buffs for the series they capped at Low high just because of Abigail’s feat. Nero’s savior thing wasn’t applicable back then and it still isn’t now.
well Dante thought wrong because he was still alive. Sensing someone being gone doesn’t mean much when they can just warp somewhere else, and considering how Vergil kept warping around the island after the end of each fight until the final fight, Dante thought the fight was over each time.
Nero's feat is very much applicable, that is one of the reasons its accepted.No I’m talking about way before the major buffs for the series they capped at Low high just because of Abigail’s feat. Nero’s savior thing wasn’t applicable back then and it still isn’t now.
Proof?? I have never come accross any such notion let alone evidence for it.well Dante thought wrong because he was still alive. Sensing someone being gone doesn’t mean much when they can just warp somewhere else, and considering how Vergil kept warping around the island after the end of each fight until the final
Regeneration feat is performed after the separation tho....the scan outright mentions Nero recreating his own memories and body after Yamato has already reached the heart and into his hands.No Dante stating that he needed the sword that separated man from devil when saving Nero is what makes that not applicable for regen. It’s not a regeneration feat it’s a separation of man and devil feat for Yamato.
Mundus uses portals to travel around dimensions....none of that was shown.the fact Mundus disappeared into the void and Dante thinking it was over when it wasn’t as he clearly came back to fight Dante one last time. Again bring evidence Mundus’ soul was destroyed in that fight and I can see that be a thing.
Yes and why do you think that happened?it's literally says that dante final attack made him in pain and meant to kill him saying the this is the end of the battle and honestly nelo one is literally him flying away not teleporting as you can see that clear while mundus literally just vanishs and thanks for reminding me that the underworld was collapsing without mundus existence to sustains it sounds familiar? that's exactly what happened to void mundus with the difference that void mundus is completely dead while this mundus struggled a little bit to regenerated which makes sense because dmc2 dante is much superior to almost everything dmc1 dante can do including his reactive evolution so dmc2 regeneration negation should be superior to his dmc1 self so at end if he teleported away(which he doesn't have this ability btw)then the demon realm wouldn't have started collapsing after his disappearance just like to what happened when void mundus died@Deadguy The scan said he disappeared into the void, meaning he left when he got his ass kicked and came back in a crippled state when the underworld collapses.
You do realize they had 3 fights right? And the second one he just lost and vanished?
I already countered this point against tony argument so please address those points instead of repeating this argument@GilverTheProtoAngelo No Dante stating that he needed the sword that separated man from devil when saving Nero is what makes that not applicable for regen. It’s not a regeneration feat it’s a separation of man and devil feat for Yamato.
GnI'll respond to rest of stuff from earlier replies to me tomorrow..I need to sleep
He was kinda dead for like almost 5 minutes since he struggled a little bit to regenerate back and reason why he struggled? because two words "reaction evolution" it's not in dante page for nothing and unlike void mundus who never come back which void mundus faced a much superior dante and excuse me but what hell are you talking about?the underworld didn't explode and is still there so we still see it multiple times after that event the only thing that got exploded is the island but that's because it couldn't handle it's structure when the demon realm was collapsing as it started to fall on itself and what do you mean he wouldn't have said "I would return"?what does that have to do with anything I said?cuz this line is simply him saying that he will have his revenge on dante since he knows he will be sealed for a very long time he is just letting him know that he will still persist on his goal no matter how long it takes to achieve it but I still failed to see how is this relevant to our discussion tbh@Deadguy and Mundus never died in the end, Dante sealed him away but the underworld and island still exploded. If he died died then he wouldn’t have mentioned he would returned when Dante sealed him back into the demon world.
He exploded into electricity in the second fight and exploded into flames in the third, and thought Vergil died when he clearly wasn’t dead as he had to reform his body back.
your point against tony admit Nero only got his memories back but he couldn’t get himself back together. Hence why Dante needed to use Yamato in the first place.
I mean, some devil arms yesdemonic energy isn't their literal physical bodies dude, I'm talking about their actual bodies they take form in when they fight dante, not the devil arms themselves.
I mean thanks but my point is that nero didn't need yamato to regenerate you could possibly say that the yamato have fastened the process of his regeneration(even tho I believe more it's because he opened the core which is where nero is in and basically ruining the device) but this isn't exactly my main point and that's it doesn't take away that nero was already doing it by himself and was going to heal fully if not for the gems in the saviorAbout nero and savior
Just for clarification to help both sides
On page 221 Nero already started to remember his memories
On page 231 The moment Nero touched Yamato, his memories came back entirely and body regenerated.
The debate has not yet been concluded. Glass has already stated that he will post a summary when the debate is finished.Can somebody explain what we currently need to do here please?