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DMC PoC continued
- Thread starter Theglassman12
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alright I’m back
@Sevil Natas do you have any scans whatsoever that proves Dante was unable to sense Vergil’s soul? Either way this doesn’t exactly help the sparda heritage demons when Vergil took a long ass time to come back. That same scene also has Vergil telling Dante to “heal his wounds” and get strong so the possibility that Urizen just was too weak to the point he can’t heal properly is an explanation as well.
Not exactly given the constant back and forths we’ve been getting even offsite regarding these scans that none of us can agree entirely. So again I still propose we wait until we get more scans.
No I said it only sucks your soul away as stated by Jester. Also it’s not just a game over screen. Idk how many times must I repeat myself but you literally have a cutscene of Dante being ****** over by the Neo Generator and Jester mocking him how it’s affecting him too and he doesn’t have much time. And Dante failing to do what jester tells him results in him dying in DT. No here’s the difference, we get actual statements on specific weapons being able to negate regeneration. Neo generator lacks said statement and just sucks your soul away. Why are we assuming regen neg as opposed to this being an actual weakness for Dante or anyone in sparda heritage level?
Again Lore matters here which you seem to ignore a lot when it doesn’t suit your end. It’s literally stated in the enemy files to rip one’s soul out and how you need to escape from death. If ripping Dante’s soul out can kill him, something already proven in 3, then he wouldn’t be able to regenerate on that level. Simple as that.
No it’s not an infinitesmal part of their being when it’s literally their own soul. Prove it right now that Devil arms are a small fraction of their soul and I’ll concede on that point. So we’re just gonna ignore the normal dealers Dante goes to whenever he dumps his Devil Arms away in lore? Normal ******* people that isn’t V? Ok.
@GilverTheProtoAngelo i don’t see regen negation on his page so where is that exactly?
When the hell was the Neo Generator a man made demonic weapon? Also it’s not tearing apart the soul, FFS I’ve been saying the soul is being sucked away, there’s a difference between the two. Which is capable of killing Dante by merely ripping the soul out of his body.
You’re comparing a guidebook to an in game enemy file dude. One just elaborates on the gameplay stuff while the other just talks about what it’s moves are. False equivalency there, also the fact you have
first off Frost demons freezing the characters and them breaking out just helps solidify their resistance even more, second the frost demons lore doesn’t mention that they could kill Dante with their ice instantly, only normal victims. Third the soul rip is backed up by the Neo Generator scene where that threatens to kill Dante by ripping his soul out of his body. If that can kill Dante then a demon that has the capability to rip one’s soul out being a potential threat to Dante doesn’t contradict what’s shown, simple as that.
No Cerberus flat out saying “take my soul and go forth” only to shatter his entire body and turning into the weapon doesn’t prove that his body is the soul, that just proves his soul is the weapon itself. What kind of logic are you pulling here where you’re saying the body is also the soul? When was that a thing?
@Deadguy i don’t think you understand what my problem is. It’s not the demons losing their soul, it’s the demons dying by their soul being destroyed, the losing soul part is for the sparda heritage characters.
also Nero didn’t do that feat by himself, that was exclusively Yamato that did it for him so that’s not even a natural feat for Nero.
Mundus was in pieces the next time we see him so he doesn’t even do much regen in the first place. He’s literally crawling after getting the shit kicked out of him. Also Nelo’s feat is non combat applicable so it’s not really that useful.
@Sevil Natas do you have any scans whatsoever that proves Dante was unable to sense Vergil’s soul? Either way this doesn’t exactly help the sparda heritage demons when Vergil took a long ass time to come back. That same scene also has Vergil telling Dante to “heal his wounds” and get strong so the possibility that Urizen just was too weak to the point he can’t heal properly is an explanation as well.
Not exactly given the constant back and forths we’ve been getting even offsite regarding these scans that none of us can agree entirely. So again I still propose we wait until we get more scans.
No I said it only sucks your soul away as stated by Jester. Also it’s not just a game over screen. Idk how many times must I repeat myself but you literally have a cutscene of Dante being ****** over by the Neo Generator and Jester mocking him how it’s affecting him too and he doesn’t have much time. And Dante failing to do what jester tells him results in him dying in DT. No here’s the difference, we get actual statements on specific weapons being able to negate regeneration. Neo generator lacks said statement and just sucks your soul away. Why are we assuming regen neg as opposed to this being an actual weakness for Dante or anyone in sparda heritage level?
Again Lore matters here which you seem to ignore a lot when it doesn’t suit your end. It’s literally stated in the enemy files to rip one’s soul out and how you need to escape from death. If ripping Dante’s soul out can kill him, something already proven in 3, then he wouldn’t be able to regenerate on that level. Simple as that.
No it’s not an infinitesmal part of their being when it’s literally their own soul. Prove it right now that Devil arms are a small fraction of their soul and I’ll concede on that point. So we’re just gonna ignore the normal dealers Dante goes to whenever he dumps his Devil Arms away in lore? Normal ******* people that isn’t V? Ok.
@GilverTheProtoAngelo i don’t see regen negation on his page so where is that exactly?
When the hell was the Neo Generator a man made demonic weapon? Also it’s not tearing apart the soul, FFS I’ve been saying the soul is being sucked away, there’s a difference between the two. Which is capable of killing Dante by merely ripping the soul out of his body.
You’re comparing a guidebook to an in game enemy file dude. One just elaborates on the gameplay stuff while the other just talks about what it’s moves are. False equivalency there, also the fact you have
first off Frost demons freezing the characters and them breaking out just helps solidify their resistance even more, second the frost demons lore doesn’t mention that they could kill Dante with their ice instantly, only normal victims. Third the soul rip is backed up by the Neo Generator scene where that threatens to kill Dante by ripping his soul out of his body. If that can kill Dante then a demon that has the capability to rip one’s soul out being a potential threat to Dante doesn’t contradict what’s shown, simple as that.
No Cerberus flat out saying “take my soul and go forth” only to shatter his entire body and turning into the weapon doesn’t prove that his body is the soul, that just proves his soul is the weapon itself. What kind of logic are you pulling here where you’re saying the body is also the soul? When was that a thing?
@Deadguy i don’t think you understand what my problem is. It’s not the demons losing their soul, it’s the demons dying by their soul being destroyed, the losing soul part is for the sparda heritage characters.
also Nero didn’t do that feat by himself, that was exclusively Yamato that did it for him so that’s not even a natural feat for Nero.
Mundus was in pieces the next time we see him so he doesn’t even do much regen in the first place. He’s literally crawling after getting the shit kicked out of him. Also Nelo’s feat is non combat applicable so it’s not really that useful.
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I still have some things to say so give me some hours please.
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if Dante was able to sense him he'll know that Vergil is alive post 1, which he didn't, and no Vergil's didn't take years to regenerate, his regen time is unknown and even it wasn't it could be down to regen neg again, him overcoming it through his RE (which we know could enhanced resistances, especially to regen neg) is the most likely explanation to why
so you do agree the soul isn't being destroyed? so what the hell does this have to do with regen?
to address your other points. him getting affected by it means nothing. Frieza was affected by EE and still resisted it in DB, here's what you should be asking instead :
did Dante's soul get destroyed by the neo-generator in canon?
-no it didn't
did Dante himself die due to the neo-generator in canon?
-no he didn't
so yeah neo generator being able to kill Dante is very questionable at best
again all the above assumes that : it sucking his soul away = destroying it (which is a nonsensical idea to assume with no further evidence) otherwise this "anti-feat" has nothing to with regeneration.
"why are we assuming regen neg as opposed to this being an actual weakness for dante" because there's a clear blatant statement directly from the author that suggests the former? it being a regen weakness is backed by nothing? why are we assuming it's a weakness when that creates a needless contradiction?
funny how you mention this when you didn't even post the enemy file anywhere here, so there wasn't anything for me to ignore in the first place. the saying "you need to escape from death" is very flowery & vague, its not proper ground for dismissing anything
No. it isn't, the weapons that Dante uses are clearly physical objects, and they aren't souls, the non-physical aspect of them or what we see as a small shining light is the soul in this case.
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The devil arm being the physical manifestation always was a thing since Deadly Fortune vol 2 novel and Before the Nightmare
Before the Nightmare
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The first argument I have dropped so there is no need to discuss it anymore
No this isn't actually the case as nero is alive in a sense but sealed inside which was the literally the whole purpose of how the savior function and he himself comments in dmc4 novel deadly fortuna that he feels dante outside fighting the savior but also said that he couldn't do anything but waiting for him to free him because he is trapped in the core and dante makes the very same comment that he can sense nero inside so in another words it perverts him from regenerating completely which makes sense when you consider the fact that agnus the person who's have vast amount of knowledge on demons will of course know about their regeneration and will take countermeasures for a scenario like that by not letting them get freed
That's only his statue form which his true form resides in it like think of it more like an armor that he covers himself up with and the reason why he crawling is because of size of the place he came to fight dante barely fits him and I know nelo angelo feat is overtime and is combat unapplicable but it still counts after all we used the nelo feat argument for low godly and mid godly regeneration but we made it an as an overtime for the sparda inheritance in their base form so I don't see why we can't use it
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At this point we should summarize the Agrees and Disagrees
Also really sorry for taking so long to come back to the discussion, I was on exams (I'm still having them, kinda)
Anyway, like I said on the previous thread, I was okay with it, then went neutral on Tier 1 stuff, while still going in for the haxes, I remember Glass was against some of them, how are their current situation ?
I made this list on the old thread, about the accepted stuff:
Now, Nico does stated that Sparda's blood was stronger than normal demon blood, but maybe said quote wasn't about Regeneration ? We already actually don't scale Base Dante and Vergil to every demon in Regen, so it isn't that impossible, even more when considering the feats, or the lack of them
We don't consider something to be lethal or not for lacking feats of actually killing the target on canon, the NeoGenerator had a whole cutscene explaining why it was dangerous for Dante and by a knowledgeable source of info (Arkham), it being able to kill him, whatever the means, it's relevant and no mere game mechanic
Also really sorry for taking so long to come back to the discussion, I was on exams (I'm still having them, kinda)
Anyway, like I said on the previous thread, I was okay with it, then went neutral on Tier 1 stuff, while still going in for the haxes, I remember Glass was against some of them, how are their current situation ?
I made this list on the old thread, about the accepted stuff:
Mr Glass:
As far as I know, Dante never lost his soul and had to heal it, the closest example of this could be Nelo Angelo's feat (Dante would scale), which, honestly, I'm not really sure myself what happened on that case anymore, but I remember some sources implying his soul went boom on that occasion. Even if it did, we know that said event did a massive damage on Vergil and he never fully healed of it, eventually needing Yamato, like we saw in DMC5
Now, Nico does stated that Sparda's blood was stronger than normal demon blood, but maybe said quote wasn't about Regeneration ? We already actually don't scale Base Dante and Vergil to every demon in Regen, so it isn't that impossible, even more when considering the feats, or the lack of them
We don't consider something to be lethal or not for lacking feats of actually killing the target on canon, the NeoGenerator had a whole cutscene explaining why it was dangerous for Dante and by a knowledgeable source of info (Arkham), it being able to kill him, whatever the means, it's relevant and no mere game mechanic
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@Deadguy
@EFÍTÉ
@KLOL506
I would like if you please keep the "ultima said is only range" out as he hasn't said anything here or in the past thread and anything said in discord is mostly irrelevant to us, especially when we have an argument made and waiting for evaluation and further discussion.
@Antvasima
I honestly would like to thank you for your support with this mess of a thread and I'm sorry we are bothering you with it, hopefully we can finish it soon enough.
The nero argument doesn't work, he only regenerated his melted body back, Yamato is the reason his soul and memories were restored. The whole debacle is here https://vsbattles.com/threads/this-...-of-sparda-devil-may-cry.118150/#post-3879766 but to summarize there is no more Nero inside the savior, there is no more demons, they all became the savior and nothing else. That's why Dante specifically needed the Yamato do save him.
The Mundus feat is too vague to be used to justify High Godly as its only stated he was "destroyed" which can mean a variety of things but to use it for HG needs more context. The only feat that supports this is Vergil/Nelo, a half demon who took 10 years to come back.
While I'm neutral about the High-Godly regeneration as it has quite a lot of anti feats but if it somehow goes through the twins and anyone who follows (half/quarter demons) won't scale based on Vergil needing 10 years to come back from that.
Please don't, not only this thread isn't about that but they exist within the same dimensional level if you want to call it like that. The creation of the demon world made the world of darkness unstable enough that it was tearing itself apart until the horned demon god came in and separated them.
If the demon world was 1 dimension above it, there would be no concern about the creation of what is basically fiction to it and whatever chaos it brings upon itself and thus Pluto would not need to act. I said in my post it could be used to argue for L1C as there is an infinitely bigger/stronger difference but the problem lies with both of them still getting affected by it.
The Mundus feat is too vague to be used to justify High Godly as its only stated he was "destroyed" which can mean a variety of things but to use it for HG needs more context. The only feat that supports this is Vergil/Nelo, a half demon who took 10 years to come back.
While I'm neutral about the High-Godly regeneration as it has quite a lot of anti feats but if it somehow goes through the twins and anyone who follows (half/quarter demons) won't scale based on Vergil needing 10 years to come back from that.
Please don't, not only this thread isn't about that but they exist within the same dimensional level if you want to call it like that. The creation of the demon world made the world of darkness unstable enough that it was tearing itself apart until the horned demon god came in and separated them.
If the demon world was 1 dimension above it, there would be no concern about the creation of what is basically fiction to it and whatever chaos it brings upon itself and thus Pluto would not need to act. I said in my post it could be used to argue for L1C as there is an infinitely bigger/stronger difference but the problem lies with both of them still getting affected by it.
@EFÍTÉ
We already went over this in the last thread but if you want to bring lore and what goes with/against I recommend checking again because PoC retconed that.
Prior to PoC only the demon world existed as the primordial world but now there is a primordial chaos that spawned/created demons and then the demon world gave them form.
PoC clearly separates the two as 2 different locations/planes, as you quoted "spawned by the primordial chaos that preceded reality and formed by the demon world''
Moreover the quote directly states they originated in a higher dimension which is most likely this primordial chaos that spawned them and their names.
You are once again misunderstanding the cosmology and at this point im tired of repeating it over and over but since this is the wiki I will say it again.
The world that was born of darkness is the human world, the darkness is the demon world. It's so simple and yet you fail to understand time and time again.
Now you also said the demon world is the home of demons and their natural habitat, that's because the demon world gave them form as the quote says, it doesn't mean it creates them.
There is a demon (Hell Vanguard) who specifically manages souls and with this knowledge is easy to assume it is that demon who sends them to the hells where they are punished by the sins, not that they need to go there.
This is ******* wrong, as DMC2 shows they become demons because the demon world corrupts them, not because they naturally transition into demons.
Once again you are wrong, its because the demon world corrupts/transmutates/soul haxes them, not because they naturally become demons when they die.
this would be good and all but PoC already retconed that to be 2 different places but nice try, points for effort
Because you like to wank, that's why you can't see the reality of it seriously tho, I see nothing supporting this notion and neither does half of the guys at discord.
As a closing point I would like you to stay on track of the thread and what the OP is. AP isn't in debate anymore nor is the scaling of this dimension/chaos to the demon world.
Prior to PoC only the demon world existed as the primordial world but now there is a primordial chaos that spawned/created demons and then the demon world gave them form.
PoC clearly separates the two as 2 different locations/planes, as you quoted "spawned by the primordial chaos that preceded reality and formed by the demon world''
Moreover the quote directly states they originated in a higher dimension which is most likely this primordial chaos that spawned them and their names.
You are once again misunderstanding the cosmology and at this point im tired of repeating it over and over but since this is the wiki I will say it again.
The world that was born of darkness is the human world, the darkness is the demon world. It's so simple and yet you fail to understand time and time again.
Now you also said the demon world is the home of demons and their natural habitat, that's because the demon world gave them form as the quote says, it doesn't mean it creates them.
There is a demon (Hell Vanguard) who specifically manages souls and with this knowledge is easy to assume it is that demon who sends them to the hells where they are punished by the sins, not that they need to go there.
This is ******* wrong, as DMC2 shows they become demons because the demon world corrupts them, not because they naturally transition into demons.
Once again you are wrong, its because the demon world corrupts/transmutates/soul haxes them, not because they naturally become demons when they die.
this would be good and all but PoC already retconed that to be 2 different places but nice try, points for effort
As a closing point I would like you to stay on track of the thread and what the OP is. AP isn't in debate anymore nor is the scaling of this dimension/chaos to the demon world.
@KLOL506
I would like if you please keep the "ultima said is only range" out as he hasn't said anything here or in the past thread and anything said in discord is mostly irrelevant to us, especially when we have an argument made and waiting for evaluation and further discussion.
@Antvasima
I honestly would like to thank you for your support with this mess of a thread and I'm sorry we are bothering you with it, hopefully we can finish it soon enough.
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Read carefully, the context in the interview says when human dies in specific on DMC3 (while the ideia came from DMC2), so by all means the people that died in DMC3 turned into SIN demons also, the corruption thing also occours too there's sequence of events happening, either by returning to the demon world and not being able to overcome the demon world/ demonic energy/essence or just by interacting with those demons like i said, there's sequence of events happening; We take look at Msira's profile in dmc2, its basically a avatar of greed, looking at the graphic arts, it also says '' people who have been consumed by evil'', going with DMC 3 we see that Arkham turns into this mass of demonic form based on his heart after not being able to handle sparda's power, to note that he goes from sparda form to this mass of demonic body, which goes along with what its showed in the Deadly fortune novel vol 1 (basically DMC4's novel) where the shape of the demon form is based in the subconscious, the ascension tries to give people demonic energy/essence, which if the person fails at the ceremony, they will go berserk instead of retaining their conscious, which goes along with people turning into demons based on their unconscious desires, so yes people don't need to become Msira or Sin demons by default, its up to the subconscious desire of the individual. I could have answered this with less text, but i decided to give context.
But yes, for some odd reason i argued that they become demons no matter what, thanks for the heads up.
The way he's tasked to manage the souls is up to interpretation, could be him taking the souls, him not having to physically interfere and just making sure the souls returns and if needed returns to specific places in the demon world (in the case of Hell sins).
The only thing i said about dimensions is the 9th dimension being the DW or somewhere in the DW.
Please read carefully, my comment didn't refer to AP and Hax.
About the cosmology comments, look, i ain't debating about it, its up to staff to decide which side is right, we already debated on that and went nowhere and please stop acting like this stuff is already decided.
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Also I want to address those two real quick
He doesn't have in his page but that's because nobody cared enough
Maybe we don't have a direct statement that it is a man made weapon but it was confirmed that the temi ni gru tower was made by humans so they can summon demons into the human realm so logically almost everything there in the tower should have been made by them except the guardians we know sparda is the one who brought them there
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@Sevil Natas We literally have DMC 1 and DMC 5 be a 10 year gap, Vergil only shows up in 5 of all times to get his sword back when if we're going by this logic of him coming back before then why didn't he show up in Fortuna to get Yamato back from the Order? You're raising more questions than answers here.
You're ignoring my point, Dante was threatened to die as stated by Jester in canon cutscenes in DMC 3. Merely having his soul ripped out from his body is enough to kill him even when he was in DT. This contradicts any of the Sparda Heritage characters scaling to this level of regen, because if they can truly come back from their souls being destroyed then why the hell is that considered deadly to dante in cutscenes? On top of the mission description backing it up, as well as the entire mission literally being a time limit based on your health and you dying the moment your health is gone?
Did you actually bother to read this comment I made in the last thread? Because I linked this here where you find the Sin Scythe enemy files. Pay attention next time because I hate having to repeat myself.
Said physical objects are stated to be their souls. Cerberus literally says it himself so why are we going to assume otherwise?
@EFÍTÉ demonic energy isn't their literal physical bodies dude, I'm talking about their actual bodies they take form in when they fight dante, not the devil arms themselves.
@Deadguy You do realize Sealing someone away has nothing to do with their regenerative factors right? Also again, even if we're taking this as a regen feat it's not natural for Nero as he needed Yamato to get out.
Again you need explicity proof that Mundus's entire body and soul and well... entire existence was gone to prove high godly, this is way too vague to justify high godly.
Ok, that again doesn't explain the regeneration negation for the neo generator when it doesn't have a statement on negging regen, just sucking away one's soul. Which is still capable of killing dante.
@Antvasima We just need to finish this discussion, after that we'll give the TL;DR of our points and you can call staff members.
You're ignoring my point, Dante was threatened to die as stated by Jester in canon cutscenes in DMC 3. Merely having his soul ripped out from his body is enough to kill him even when he was in DT. This contradicts any of the Sparda Heritage characters scaling to this level of regen, because if they can truly come back from their souls being destroyed then why the hell is that considered deadly to dante in cutscenes? On top of the mission description backing it up, as well as the entire mission literally being a time limit based on your health and you dying the moment your health is gone?
Did you actually bother to read this comment I made in the last thread? Because I linked this here where you find the Sin Scythe enemy files. Pay attention next time because I hate having to repeat myself.
Said physical objects are stated to be their souls. Cerberus literally says it himself so why are we going to assume otherwise?
@EFÍTÉ demonic energy isn't their literal physical bodies dude, I'm talking about their actual bodies they take form in when they fight dante, not the devil arms themselves.
@Deadguy You do realize Sealing someone away has nothing to do with their regenerative factors right? Also again, even if we're taking this as a regen feat it's not natural for Nero as he needed Yamato to get out.
Again you need explicity proof that Mundus's entire body and soul and well... entire existence was gone to prove high godly, this is way too vague to justify high godly.
Ok, that again doesn't explain the regeneration negation for the neo generator when it doesn't have a statement on negging regen, just sucking away one's soul. Which is still capable of killing dante.
@Antvasima We just need to finish this discussion, after that we'll give the TL;DR of our points and you can call staff members.
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It seems that you missed the part that it melting down both the body and soul of others which is a process that nero pretty much gone through and we literally have this feat as justification for low high regeneration
and as for it being yamato feat look at my response to Tony comment
Just because we don't have a direct statement of complete destruction of him entirely doesn't mean we can dismiss the points that can connects to each other as dante is capable of seeing the souls of others but he was pretty confident that he killed mundus so unless you counter this very specific and supporting point then the whole "it's vague" doesn't work well because there is already a point that supports it
tbh I don't wanna touch the neo argument because that shit is a little bit complicated for me I was more or less addressing your point about it not being a man-made weapon but honestly I'm with gilver and lighting side with this point especially when we have a literal statement that there's materials from the demon realm that is capable of harming and killing them
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Okay. No problem.
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@Deadguy I'm 90% sure low high was scaling to Abigail's blood regeneration and not from Savior's melting feat. If it was the latter then it's flat out wrong as Nero needed yamato to come back.
No, you're arguing that he has the level of regeneration on a High Godly level. That's not something you can get with a random "destroy" statement as pieces of mundus can still remain despite being destroyed. Unless you have scans that he got erased down to his soul/name, it's a massive stretch to assume this from a vague destruction statement.
Lightning also agreed with me that we shouldn't disregard the Neo Generator as it's not a literal game mechanic and has lore showings of being harmful for dante, and again all it does is suck his soul away.
No, you're arguing that he has the level of regeneration on a High Godly level. That's not something you can get with a random "destroy" statement as pieces of mundus can still remain despite being destroyed. Unless you have scans that he got erased down to his soul/name, it's a massive stretch to assume this from a vague destruction statement.
Lightning also agreed with me that we shouldn't disregard the Neo Generator as it's not a literal game mechanic and has lore showings of being harmful for dante, and again all it does is suck his soul away.
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Then you need to check demon physiology page in sparda inheritance section plus Abigail is a god tier in the verse meaning low high regeneration isn't his limits and scales to the god tiers regeneration level and I already addressed why it's not yamato feat in my response to tony so counter that first
I'm not basing my argument only on "got destroyed" as you seems to keep dodging this point like let me compare this two scenarios
As you can see in this scan when dante killed that demon he was able to see it's soul so he knew he wasn't dead but with mundus he thought he killed him so this is what I heavily basing my argument for mundus regeneration feat on but if still you think otherwise then I have a question that I want you to answer it why did he thought he killed mundus despite going through pretty much the same scenario with other demons yet he believed otherwise cuz unless you deny his ability to see souls then the "it's vague" argument falls null because of this very specific point plus there is also the statement that dante attack made him vanish into nothingness so take that as you well but that's still isn't my main point here
Lighting didn't agree with sevil that it's a game mechanic yes but he didn't agree with you either that's it's an anti feat and he's more with gilver side in that argument and again I don't wanna argue for the neo generator debate I merely just addressed your argument for why it's man-made magical weapon only
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No I’m talking about way before the major buffs for the series they capped at Low high just because of Abigail’s feat. Nero’s savior thing wasn’t applicable back then and it still isn’t now.
well Dante thought wrong because he was still alive. Sensing someone being gone doesn’t mean much when they can just warp somewhere else, and considering how Vergil kept warping around the island after the end of each fight until the final fight, Dante thought the fight was over each time.
well Dante thought wrong because he was still alive. Sensing someone being gone doesn’t mean much when they can just warp somewhere else, and considering how Vergil kept warping around the island after the end of each fight until the final fight, Dante thought the fight was over each time.
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Wel meh doesn't matter if it was accepted by mistake or not what matters now if this nero feat which I provided in my response against tony argument so if you disagree then you need to address that as well
This is wrong firstly you have literally a scan that's says that dante final blow is the reason that made mundus vanish
and dante didn't know what the hell happened to nelo angelo in their first fight as when he was beating dante ass when he saw his amulet he got mental breakdown and warped away with dante not knowing what exactly happened but in their third fight the proof that he didn't warp and actually dante is the who did is because his amulet falls dow in their third encounter proofing that dante destroyed him unlike what happened in their first and second battle plus he never thought he killed him until their third encounter that's unless if you have evidence for that of course
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Nero's feat is very much applicable, that is one of the reasons its accepted.
LowHigh feat is for his Awakened Post DT physiology, while Nero who was trapped in Saviour had PreDT physiology because Yamato was stolen which is needed to maintain it and his power was nulled. There's stark differences between both physiology.
Anyways that feat scales to anyone above who has Awakened State/Post DT.
Proof?? I have never come accross any such notion let alone evidence for it.
Also he @Deadguy explicitly showed proof that Tony can see souls of his beaten victims if he doesn't kill them. Not sense...but see.
And Dante never saw Mundus' soul warping away. So unless you have proof that is headcanon.
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@Deadguy The scan said he disappeared into the void, meaning he left when he got his ass kicked and came back in a crippled state when the underworld collapses.
You do realize they had 3 fights right? And the second one he just lost and vanished?
@GilverTheProtoAngelo No Dante stating that he needed the sword that separated man from devil when saving Nero is what makes that not applicable for regen. It’s not a regeneration feat it’s a separation of man and devil feat for Yamato.
the fact Mundus disappeared into the void and Dante thinking it was over when it wasn’t as he clearly came back to fight Dante one last time. Again bring evidence Mundus’ soul was destroyed in that fight and I can see that be a thing.
You do realize they had 3 fights right? And the second one he just lost and vanished?
@GilverTheProtoAngelo No Dante stating that he needed the sword that separated man from devil when saving Nero is what makes that not applicable for regen. It’s not a regeneration feat it’s a separation of man and devil feat for Yamato.
the fact Mundus disappeared into the void and Dante thinking it was over when it wasn’t as he clearly came back to fight Dante one last time. Again bring evidence Mundus’ soul was destroyed in that fight and I can see that be a thing.
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Regeneration feat is performed after the separation tho....the scan outright mentions Nero recreating his own memories and body after Yamato has already reached the heart and into his hands.
Mundus uses portals to travel around dimensions....none of that was shown.
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Yes and why do you think that happened?it's literally says that dante final attack made him in pain and meant to kill him saying the this is the end of the battle and honestly nelo one is literally him flying away not teleporting as you can see that clear while mundus literally just vanishs and thanks for reminding me that the underworld was collapsing without mundus existence to sustains it sounds familiar? that's exactly what happened to void mundus with the difference that void mundus is completely dead while this mundus struggled a little bit to regenerated which makes sense because dmc2 dante is much superior to almost everything dmc1 dante can do including his reactive evolution so dmc2 regeneration negation should be superior to his dmc1 self so at end if he teleported away(which he doesn't have this ability btw)then the demon realm wouldn't have started collapsing after his disappearance just like to what happened when void mundus died
Yea and? My point is that you thought that dante thought (without providing evidence)that he killed nelo in all his encounters and nelo doesn't even disappear even he just flies away so I don't from where you got that he disappeared in his two first encounters and I don't know how you assumed that dante thought that nelo is dead after every encounters them
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I already countered this point against tony argument so please address those points instead of repeating this argument
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I'll respond to rest of stuff from earlier replies to me tomorrow..I need to sleep
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@GilverTheProtoAngelo so again, a Yamato feat and not an actual feat Nero can do by himself. You admit that it’s done after Yamato separated him, meaning this is something exclusive to Yamato unless there’s another instance of Nero doing the same regeneration.
Neither is it shown his soul was completely destroyed. Which again needs evidence since high godly isn’t something you get from a random destroy statement.
@Deadguy and Mundus never died in the end, Dante sealed him away but the underworld and island still exploded. If he died died then he wouldn’t have mentioned he would returned when Dante sealed him back into the demon world.
He exploded into electricity in the second fight and exploded into flames in the third, and thought Vergil died when he clearly wasn’t dead as he had to reform his body back.
your point against tony admit Nero only got his memories back but he couldn’t get himself back together. Hence why Dante needed to use Yamato in the first place.
Neither is it shown his soul was completely destroyed. Which again needs evidence since high godly isn’t something you get from a random destroy statement.
@Deadguy and Mundus never died in the end, Dante sealed him away but the underworld and island still exploded. If he died died then he wouldn’t have mentioned he would returned when Dante sealed him back into the demon world.
He exploded into electricity in the second fight and exploded into flames in the third, and thought Vergil died when he clearly wasn’t dead as he had to reform his body back.
your point against tony admit Nero only got his memories back but he couldn’t get himself back together. Hence why Dante needed to use Yamato in the first place.
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He was kinda dead for like almost 5 minutes since he struggled a little bit to regenerate back and reason why he struggled? because two words "reaction evolution" it's not in dante page for nothing and unlike void mundus who never come back which void mundus faced a much superior dante and excuse me but what hell are you talking about?the underworld didn't explode and is still there so we still see it multiple times after that event the only thing that got exploded is the island but that's because it couldn't handle it's structure when the demon realm was collapsing as it started to fall on itself and what do you mean he wouldn't have said "I would return"?what does that have to do with anything I said?cuz this line is simply him saying that he will have his revenge on dante since he knows he will be sealed for a very long time he is just letting him know that he will still persist on his goal no matter how long it takes to achieve it but I still failed to see how is this relevant to our discussion tbh
And you still didn't bring any evidence that dante believed that nelo is killed before their third encounter like you wouldn't find any statement of dante thinking he killed him before the third battle unlike mundus who have a direct statement that he was thought to be killed
One of my points was that the gems on the savior is what stops nero from coming back because when dante destroyed one of them nero started to get his consciousness back,recalling his memories and his name since he says he remember who he is tho you could say it's possibly more tied to his memories but it doesn't matter either away which as we know that the minds,memories and names is contained within their souls as it goes very well with what this scan says when the savior absorbs others
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I mean, some devil arms yes
But the shape they take to fight dante? Name concept based. Currenctly accepted.
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About nero and savior
Just for clarification to help both sides
On page 221 Nero already started to remember his memories
On page 231 The moment Nero touched Yamato, his memories came back entirely and body regenerated
About Mundus
Guide says he's supposed to be dead.
For some reason Imgur is not working here so i going to bring imgur stuff here just in case someone is having the same problem.
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You have Dante being able to see souls and sense souls and stuff (which currenctly has Tier 2 range)
along with not only Mundus disappearing along with the universe he made, but the demon world also started to collapse thanks to Mundus' death. (It says Mallet Island, but in game the demon world is also collapsing).
So the regeneration argument can be valid.
Just for clarification to help both sides
On page 221 Nero already started to remember his memories
On page 231 The moment Nero touched Yamato, his memories came back entirely and body regenerated
About Mundus
Guide says he's supposed to be dead.
For some reason Imgur is not working here so i going to bring imgur stuff here just in case someone is having the same problem.
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2
You have Dante being able to see souls and sense souls and stuff (which currenctly has Tier 2 range)
along with not only Mundus disappearing along with the universe he made, but the demon world also started to collapse thanks to Mundus' death. (It says Mallet Island, but in game the demon world is also collapsing).
So the regeneration argument can be valid.
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I mean thanks but my point is that nero didn't need yamato to regenerate you could possibly say that the yamato have fastened the process of his regeneration(even tho I believe more it's because he opened the core which is where nero is in and basically ruining the device) but this isn't exactly my main point and that's it doesn't take away that nero was already doing it by himself and was going to heal fully if not for the gems in the savior
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@EFÍTÉ also to help you in proofing that the demon realm was collapsing as well we have a direct statement here
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So just to make myself clear about nero and savior stuff since I worded my response to tony a little bit poorly so my apologies for that
But I don't necessarily disagree think that nero got merged with savior but more so that he can recover himself up making the merging useless so agnus(who's btw so knowledgeable about demons and studied them and their stuff for years and knows to use their power for his experiments)knowing that created those gems to prevent that from happening especially when we have to remember that they were originally aiming for dante who have a superior regeneration to nero to be the one to get in the savior
But I don't necessarily disagree think that nero got merged with savior but more so that he can recover himself up making the merging useless so agnus(who's btw so knowledgeable about demons and studied them and their stuff for years and knows to use their power for his experiments)knowing that created those gems to prevent that from happening especially when we have to remember that they were originally aiming for dante who have a superior regeneration to nero to be the one to get in the savior
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The debate has not yet been concluded. Glass has already stated that he will post a summary when the debate is finished.
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Take that question off of this thread and somewhere else please. Its irrelevant here.
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