DMC Novel 1 Scaling

[Mister6ame6]

Well, i put DMC3 and DMC3 manga on the same level tbh, the DMC3 manga by the art alone (UDT Dante is ******* nightmare fuel) and DMC3 (Dante awakening his DT for the first time is a epic moment for me).

Although if we are talking about feats alone, than every adaptation feat is good on his own. Although yeah, corrosion is not a impressive feat regardless.

In terms of number of feats, Vol 1 holds the cake as the winner (Maybe there is more feats on the raws that we don't know).

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I mean, considering that fodder demons can resist the Demon World's haxs, i think is just Dante getting affected once and eventually adapting to it, not exactly something that he need to be on his High 3-A key to be able to do it, since he can already go to the DW since DMC3 events, although Dante is post DT there, so maybe should go to 6-C Sparda Physiology.

Arkham can enter inside the Demon World, so he can get everything resistance from DWE and he also have some incomplete demonic power inside him, thanks to the ritual that he did when he killed his wife.

Lady can get Corrosion Inducement, illusion creation and maybe sleep hax too (Thanks Volume 1 for that) by being close to the Demon World in DMC3.

Demons resist Corrosion, cool

Dante has that extra Adaptation against the Corrosion stuff, that ability is already in their list so it's just one other feat, but we absolutely need to be more careful with Physiology abilities, that's why I believed it should be on High 3-A, I was wrong, but the message still stands

About Lady, yeah, she should resist everything the Nexus has

Arkham has the Physiology listed so in the end he'll just scale and we are fine

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Yes i agree with 8-C, but something came into mind.

While there's no direct connection for 8-A scalling, isn't possible to scale both gilver and Vol 1 dante to pre DMC 3 events dante or before he got DT ? Like Pre- DMC 3 or before DT Dante is already easily fodderizing every guardian demon on the tower before DT. Which even a version where Dante is equal to those guardian demons, both gilver and novel vol 1 dante still gets some scalling and the events between novel vol 1, DMC 3 Manga and game happens around in one year. So.. is quite possibly for a scalling, so i going to suggest three options for scalling

A: Novel vol 1 dante and Gilver at Peak scales to a Casual Dante from Pre DMC 3 events which is capable of casually fodderizing the demons guardian the tower. Reaching 7-B tier.

B: Similar situation to option A, but Gilver and Dante scales to 8-A since the novel, pre-dmc3 and dmc 3 happens in a year, being comparable to a more weaker version of Pre-DMC 3 events dante.

C: Dante and gilver remains a 8-C with a possibly 8-A.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Dante has that extra Adaptation against the Corrosion stuff, that ability is already in their list so it's just one other feat, but we absolutely need to be more careful with Physiology abilities, that's why I believed it should be on High 3-A, I was wrong, but the message still stands

Very understandable, stuff like physiology scaling needs to be considered and carefully analyzed (basically a case by case thing), specially since eventually, there is gonna be more feats from sacred tears to be discussed. So yeah, i can understands your message for us.

About Lady, yeah, she should resist everything the Nexus has

Agree.

Arkham has the Physiology listed so in the end he'll just scale and we are fine

Yeap, i forgot to type that, but adding the scan could be good to help prove why he scale to the Physiology page in the end.

Well, here is another argument about Beal's scaling from DMC discord server:

''So, Bael and Co are considered a common species in the Demon World, no one has been stated to be stronger or more notable than the other, every single one of them are equal, meanwhile. The Black Knights's are Mundus top fodder, specifically since they are made by machiavelli. Before I go in deep there.

Remember that Mundus can send his fodder to the Human World, such is the case with the ones that killed Eva, now BtN say how Mundus was sending all kind of demons to kill the twins, but because of the seal he couldn't send anything really powerful, instead he came up with the Angelos, among those one was special, a Demon with the data of the Sparda family. Gilver of course proved himself to be more than a handful for Dante, Bael as you remember is a common demon and despite that none forms part of the army Mundus has with Blitz being pretty much the top dog for fodder demons. This already should put him above a Demon that didn't make the cut for Mundus own army, basically, elite demons or commanders should pretty much scale above common demons that aren't part of Mundus army, now, In the novel Bianco Angelos and these Bianco Angelos are copies based on Nelo Angelo. Specifically his armor and that's all, Gilver is a special Angelo made with a very unique style and powerset meant to kill the Sparda seeds, He should obviously upscale a lot from the Bianco Angelos.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yes i agree with 8-C, but something came into mind.

While there's no direct connection for 8-A scalling, isn't possible to scale both gilver and Vol 1 dante to pre DMC 3 events dante or before he got DT ? Like Pre- DMC 3 or before DT Dante is already easily fodderizing every guardian demon on the tower before DT. Which even a version where Dante is equal to those guardian demons, both gilver and novel vol 1 dante still gets some scalling and the events between novel vol 1, DMC 3 Manga and game happens around in one year. So.. is quite possibly for a scalling, so i going to suggest three options for scalling

A: Novel vol 1 dante and Gilver at Peak scales to a Casual Dante from Pre DMC 3 events which is capable of casually fodderizing the demons guardian the tower. Reaching 7-B tier.

B: Similar situation to option A, but Gilver and Dante scales to 8-A since the novel, pre-dmc3 and dmc 3 happens in a year, being comparable to a more weaker version of Pre-DMC 3 events dante.

C: Dante and gilver remains a 8-C with a possibly 8-A.

I don't agree with those with 8-As for the same reasons

B U T

Maybe a "At most 7-B" could work, but we have different events happening in very short spaces of time (Anime - Novel 2 - DMC2), and we don't merge them since they are based on feats more than timeframes, personally I don't mind At most 7-B for Dante after he takes his name back, but a better way to do it could be fuse this Dante with Pre DT DMC3 Dante, and leave like this:

Attack Potency: At least Building level (Stronger than Blitz etc etc) | City level (Defeated Gilver and Cerberus etc etc)

Keys: "Tony" persona | Pre DT

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I already proposed Novel 1 and DMC3 Manga Merge since time and context difference is too low between them.

Like
Novel 1>1-2 Months>DMC3 Manga>1 year>DMC3 Game.

Novel 1 and PreDMC3 Manga can be merged.

As far as 7B stuff....gotta think on it personally.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I already proposed Novel 1 and DMC3 Manga Merge since time and context difference is too low between them.

Like
Novel 1>1-2 Months>DMC3 Manga>1 year>DMC3 Game.

Novel 1 and PreDMC3 Manga can be merged.

As far as 7B stuff....gotta think on it personally.

Also speaking of that, we should add Manga feats to his AP description, like the Sins and Alice

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also speaking of that, we should add Manga feats to his AP description, like the Sins and Alice

Yup right....
Holy shit, I remember now. During the Sin chapter Dante breaks through the large Sin Statue, Voilantly fragmenting it. Also The Sin manipulated/blood bended large pool of blood and drained into the large Nail.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Hmm, merging isn't a bad, considering the events of the novel and dmc 3 manga takes almost on the same month.
I can see a 8-C (or 8-A since we are considering 7-B): Dante and gilver at peak are closer to dmc 3 manga dante who in the future would easily fodderize 7-B Demon guardians. 8-A can fit the gap of power too.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Lets not forget Hell Vangaurd in M2 DMC3.
He was a bossfight in that, and narratively important to show that Dante couldn't beat it easily but Vergil could fodderise it.
Its literally beautiful use of gameplay and curscene to show narrative of Dante becoming strong to fight Vergil.
And Yet Cerberus is stronger than Hell Vangaurd. In later missions Hell Vangaurd becomes fodder for Dante, not even multiple of them can hold upto him.

What does that tell us? I have already explained him in my sandbox.
But tldr;
Accelerated Development.
Dante was Hell Vangaurd lvl in M2.
Dante become strong enough to casually stomp, Cerberus in M3.

aka Manga and M1 and M2 Dante are not 7B.
He is 7B during M3.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I...don't quite agree on that

The 8-A stuff is useless with 7-B now and remains with the same problems, no connection in power

And Dante isn't Hell Vanguard level, escaping a battle against Dante (Who never uses 100% against these demons) isn't proof to say they are equal, the same happened with the Generals multiple times, Bolverk, Beowulf, Jester, etc. Also, Vergil used Yamato on Beowulf and Vanguard, so I don't really think there is something beyond as Yamato bypasses durability by default

Aren't the Sins like super elite demons or something ? That...could be useful

 

[Mister6ame6]

I...don't quite agree on that

The 8-A stuff is useless with 7-B now and remains with the same problems, no connection in power

And Dante isn't Hell Vanguard level, escaping a battle against Dante (Who never uses 100% against these demons) isn't proof to say they are equal, the same happened with the Generals multiple times, Bolverk, Beowulf, Jester, etc. Also, Vergil used Yamato on Beowulf and Vanguard, so I don't really think there is something beyond as Yamato bypasses durability by default

You are right, with the exception of Beowulf, since Dante was visibly tired in his fight with him, he was not holding back on that one, he just got stronger when he fighting Beowulf.

Aren't the Sins like super elite demons or something ? That...could be useful

If my memory is not bad, yes they are, the Sins are also being used by Sparda to keep the sealing in the Temen-ni-gru tower, i'm going to check the manga later to confirm that.

 

[Thehunter077]

I...don't quite agree on that

The 8-A stuff is useless with 7-B now and remains with the same problems, no connection in power

And Dante isn't Hell Vanguard level, escaping a battle against Dante (Who never uses 100% against these demons) isn't proof to say they are equal, the same happened with the Generals multiple times, Bolverk, Beowulf, Jester, etc. Also, Vergil used Yamato on Beowulf and Vanguard, so I don't really think there is something beyond as Yamato bypasses durability by default

Aren't the Sins like super elite demons or something ? That...could be useful

Well Sins is a demon who got sealed by Sparda and their name get taken by him.

So I believe they are one of elites, considering they literally fodderized Dante until he accidentaly awaken his DT for a while

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Aren't the Sins like super elite demons or something ? That...could be useful

There's the SINS like dante and vergil encounters in the manga where they command and control each respective hell and sparda used them for the seal and... there's weaks ones which even lady fodderizes lol.
On hell vanguard case, he's feared in the entire Demon World, while being responsible for managing souls.

Lets not forget Hell Vangaurd in M2 DMC3.
He was a bossfight in that, and narratively important to show that Dante couldn't beat it easily but Vergil could fodderise it.
Its literally beautiful use of gameplay and curscene to show narrative of Dante becoming strong to fight Vergil.
And Yet Cerberus is stronger than Hell Vangaurd. In later missions Hell Vangaurd becomes fodder for Dante, not even multiple of them can hold upto him.

Disagree, Dante won with no problems and the file linked above also explains why Hell Vanguard shouldn't be weaker than Cerberus.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well we have some things to consider then

Being feared in the DW is actually one hell of a feat, because it goes into numbers (And that helps the connection with Bael), likely 8-A for Hell Vanguard is certainly possible, if not straight 8-A (I support both options), I would hold 7-B for it as the guardians are still a cut above them

Those first Sins should be around 7-B if they are chosen by Sparda for Sealing the Tower, which I guess makes everything solid, "Pre DT Dante" should be 7-B for defeating Gilver, Sins, Alice, Hell Vanguard, Cerberus and Agni/Rudra, while "Tony" should be 8-C scaling from the Angelos

To further improve our scaling logic, I'll create profiles for the Sins, Alice, Angelos and Hell Vanguards, since they are now a important part of Dante's scaling. And Bael as he has a good feat

 

[Thehunter077]

Is Alice scale kinda iffy though? She was forced Dante to use SDT but we know that time Dante is not even awaken his demonic power yet.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

That same Dante defeated Cerberus, she is a strong demon if she actually managed to force Dante into that "Sparda Power" mode

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Is Alice scale kinda iffy though? She was forced Dante to use SDT but we know that time Dante is not even awaken his demonic power yet.

Alice was no match for Dante, she attacked him by surprise

 

[Mister6ame6]

Dante mention that he institively transform when he is in the brink of death in BtN and the manga seems to support that since before he transform, Dante seems to not be full conciuneess when that happens (he even loses his pupils on his eyes when he is about to transform).

Considering Alice pushed him enough to go UDT, i would say that she was something to scale there, unless we treat she sucking his life force/soul there as only hax.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

After taking a second look, she does catches him by surprise, starts her hax and then Dante goes Whatever Trigger and lolstomps her by existing

So I dunno, I guess a Possibly 7-B can work, but even then she downscales

White Rabbit is also stronger than her, and is also getting a profile

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What about Gigapede? I think it could be used for higher rating in 8C via its lightning shenanigans.
Not only is it a mini-boss, it has some interesting moves.
For example there is one where it rains down from all its legs simultaneously lightning strike onto ground.
No, I am not talking about voilet homing balls, nor horizontal-vertical lightning pillars, nor the huge electric ball(which could be interesting). But rather a static discharge it does after rolling and discharging as self-defense.

So counting the legs and finding how many lightning strikes are discharged we can do.
1.6GJ × X.
Also this is quite casual self defense mechnic, with its ultimate attack( the mega electric ball) being way above such peanut.
In fact the mega-ball when discharged fills entire volume( yes volume not just area) of the room in dense electricity. And that room is pretty big.


Any other videos will also be appreciated.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

White Rabbit is also stronger than her, and is also getting a profile

Maybe entire Arkham band of demons based on fable characters should be on his profile? Makes life easy.

 

[Mister6ame6]

After taking a second look, she does catches him by surprise, starts her hax and then Dante goes Whatever Trigger and lolstomps her by existing

Yeah, i believe we should also decide what we should call that form either being DT or UDT, since there is no official information about what transformation it was (By the looks only, i would say that is UDT).

What about Gigapede? I think it could be used for higher rating in 8C via its lightning shenanigans.
Not only is it a mini-boss, it has some interesting moves.
For example there is one where it rains down from all its legs simultaneously lightning strike onto ground.
No, I am not talking about voilet homing balls, nor horizontal-vertical lightning pillars, nor the huge electric ball(which could be interesting). But rather a static discharge it does after rolling and discharging as self-defense.

So counting the legs and finding how many lightning strikes are discharged we can do.
1.6GJ × X.
Also this is quite casual self defense mechnic, with its ultimate attack( the mega electric ball) being way above such peanut.
In fact the mega-ball when discharged fills entire volume( yes volume not just area) of the room in dense electricity. And that room is pretty big.


Any other videos will also be appreciated.

Hmm

This indeed could lead to than being more higher in 8-C tier, we should try to calc that.

I tried to find any more videos with higher quality, but unfortunately, i didn't find anything better tho.

 

[Thehunter077]

UDT is just fan name, now that form are considered as SDT

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Using Lightning isn't 8-C, Natural Lightning is 8-C

When we look at the feats and features, some Lightning attacks can have the same speed, but only literal natural Lightning has the AP, that's why Blitz scales and Gigapede doesn't

That remembers me, Trish needs her Natural Lightning back (For obvious reasons lol) alongside Lady's High Hypersonic+ feat

 

[Mister6ame6]

Using Lightning isn't 8-C, Natural Lightning is 8-C

When we look at the feats and features, some Lightning attacks can have the same speed, but only literal natural Lightning has the AP, that's why Blitz scales and Gigapede doesn't

Hmm, fair enough than.

That remembers me, Trish needs her Natural Lightning back (For obvious reasons lol) alongside Lady's High Hypersonic+ feat

Agree, eventually another low tier scaling will come for this and other characters, so we fix there, unless people are fine to fix on this one.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Quite honestly it's a small fix, I wouldn't mind we adding it now but I understand if u guys want a separate CRT for it

 

[Mister6ame6]

Well, just like Blitz durability section, i'm fine with fixing rn, since is a minor thing anyway.

We also need to decide what we should call Dante's transformation in the DMC3 manga. Should we call Majin/UDT like DMC2 because of the similarites betweem both forms or just say is a "Sparda's released power"?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I believe "Released Power" is better, looking similar to other forms is expected as it is his true demonic power being released as temporary boost, but it isn't the actual transformation, so something like "Higher with released demonic power" should be better

His later forms (DT, UDT and SDT) should scale in abilities as they are also his demonic power

 

[Theglassman12]

I’m fine with the 8-C boost, don’t agree with the 8-A buffs.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So what is left and what is accepted?
I see at least physical stats have been applied.
But that is not where its over. Haxxes need to be separated among the keys properly, as I have outlined and explained in sandbox, and Gilver needs his fix too.

As I see it, Tony and Dante will be separated, with Dante from novel until Pre DT Dante in DMC3 will be merged since we collectively gave him 7B for that.......or is this 7B merger not yet accepted?
the moment when the OP himself is not aware of his thread content.