DMC Minor God Tier Revision

[Mister6ame6]

Bump

 

[Mister6ame6]

Bump this need to be finished.

So, are we good with merging Sparda pre and post Rebellion to 2-C along with Peak Sparda to one single key?

And PoC Dante being changed to comparable to Pluto in DT instead of inferior then him along with base Dante downscaling from 2-C too in PoC?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

idk what you guys will do to sparda but Dante should have something like " Low Multiverse level (Fought a casual Pluto for an extended period of time) higher with Devil Trigger (Much more stronger than before, fought a serious Pluto to a standstill making him retreat)" or something like that

 

[Mister6ame6]

Fair enougth for me.

Added Dante PoC to the OP and edited Sparda to mix his Pre Rebellion, Post Rebellion and Peak version in one single key.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

So, are we good with merging Sparda pre and post Rebellion to 2-C along with Peak Sparda to one single key?

Honestly, no

I'm fine with merging the first two into 2-C, higher after awakening to justice, but his later keys are too important to be left as just a power up from his previous form, some scaling from other characters is also based on the third version of Sparda and mixing it with his first two wouldn't be friendly with more casual viewers

Base and War | Prime | Weakened is the best bet for me

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Post Rebellion Sparda is Peak/Prime Sparda.
2 keys as we currently have is fine

Just mention....
First Key

Left and Right hand Man of Mundus, played major role in defeating Pluto, Faught with Mundus against Despair Embodied and his army which culminated in Bolverk becoming his Archenemy. Far stronger after awakening to justice and defeating Mundus at his prime.

2nd Key

After DW Rebellion Sparda found his powers growing uncontrollably, fearing this he divided his powers among 3 swords with majority of strength sealed into Force Edge inside DW. This severely weakens him below his prime, but was still capable of defeating Bolverk and survived long enough to seal Argosax away.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Post Rebellion Sparda is Peak/Prime Sparda.
2 keys as we currently have is fine

Basically this that Gilver typed, just add that Sparda sealed all the Demon Kings in the second part along with linking to the DMC blog and we are good to go.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

You guys are confusing me

Also no, Prime Sparda isn't the same as the one that fought Argosax and we know that for absolute sure, like I said before, the versions of Sparda are important for our scaling and leaving them as friendly as possible for viewers to understand is the most logical thing to do

His Base to Rebellion can be explained as "2-C, higher after Awakening to Justice" but his other two keys deserve a proper explanation on where he exactly stands scaling wise for the sake e Dante, Mundus and Chen scaling which may be a easy topic for us but it isn't for people outside the verse or not as nerd as we are

Three keys, still is the best option for everyone in terms of text and straightforward scaling

 

[Mister6ame6]

You guys are confusing me

Also no, Prime Sparda isn't the same as the one that fought Argosax and we know that for absolute sure,

You are forgetting that Mundus fought against Argosax for the control of the DW as stated in BtN, Bolverk was part of his army as Argosax's strongest general, Sparda fought against him at that time in the war as Mundus's general hence why Bolverk is stated to be a nemesis for Sparda, they fought in two different points in DMC history.

like I said before, the versions of Sparda are important for our scaling and leaving them as friendly as possible for viewers to understand is the most logical thing to do

His Base to Rebellion can be explained as "2-C, higher after Awakening to Justice" but his other two keys deserve a proper explanation on where he exactly stands scaling wise for the sake e Dante, Mundus and Chen scaling which may be a easy topic for us but it isn't for people outside the verse or not as nerd as we are

Three keys, still is the best option for everyone in terms of text and straightforward scaling

Well, personally for me, i'm fine with 2 or 3 keys, since its don't see to make a difference from my point of view, so i'm fine with both options tbh

Gonna wait for others opinios on this.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

You are forgetting that Mundus fought against Argosax for the control of the DW as stated in BtN, Bolverk was part of his army as Argosax's strongest general, Sparda fought against him at that time in the war as Mundus's general hence why Bolverk is stated to be a nemesis for Sparda, they fought in two different points in DMC history.

So ur point is that his first key and "post prime" key should be around comparable, with both having the same feat of fighting Bolverk ?

Gonna wait for others opinios on this.

Okay then

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So ur point is that his first key and "post prime" key should be around comparable, with both having the same feat of fighting Bolverk ?

Yes, if we do 3 keys, which I find unnecessary. They all share same abilities.

Only last key will have Yamato and Rebellion and not DSS after Temen Ni Gru events.

 

[Mister6ame6]

So ur point is that his first key and "post prime" key should be around comparable, with both having the same feat of fighting Bolverk ?

Yeap, since both times Sparda fought against Bolverk, he would have to be 2-C to contender with him, the only difference would be that in the time that Sparda still serves Mundus he lack Rebellion, Yamato and DSS.

That's why i'm said i fine with Sparda having 2 or 3 keys, since in the end is not going to change much in terms of scaling, Pre Rebellion Sparda, Sealed Sparda, Bolverk, PoC Dante and Pluto are on the same level of strength, since Medea scale to Sealed Sparda, which needed the help of the guardian familiy to seal her away.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Like I told you guys, make it 3 keys, those being: 1) War/Rebellion Sparda (fought and defeated Mundus and his army) 2) Prime/Post War Sparda (it's at his peak, his powers are growing and he is fearful of them) this key is right before he seals the tower along with his powers 3) Sealed Sparda.

We don't know what kind of support Sparda gave to Mundus but we have a ton of material saying Mundus created an army and that he killed the previous god to take the throne. If Sparda was there and was one of the reasons then good but we can't scale him to Pluto or Mundus without any direct statement. For all we know Sparda, as a general, rallied Mundus' armies against Pluto's, distracted the demons or something not directly related to fighting the king. We can't give scaling based on unknowns and possibilities.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

No. Big NO.
Your 2nd key in unnecessary. All it does is mentions growing power. Nothing new. We already mention it in other ways.

And Sparda absolutely helped fight Pluto, lets not bring fodder into this. Fighting/rallying against fodder is inconsequential. Same reason Sparda defeating army of hell isn't considered impressive.
We have pretty good contextual evidence for Sparda and Mundus fighting Pluto.

 

[KLOL506]

Just give Sparda a Pre-Simp Key and a Post-Simp key alongside his Power Sealed key. Easy.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Sparda also fought against Bolverk in the war betweem Mundus and Argosax, so him being 2-C as Mundus's general is fine, since he have feats to backin up.

No. Big NO.
Your 2nd key in unnecessary. All it does is mentions growing power. Nothing new. We already mention it in other ways.

I think the reason for Tony wanting a separete key is because that Peak Sparda scale to Dante, since he used DSS to fight Mundus, which contain a part of Sparda's power sealed in the sword along with him sealing the DW from the HW and the Temen-ni-gru tower.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Ehh.. fire away I guess.
3 keys.
1) Faught Pluto alongside Mundus, formed rivalry with Bolverk.
2) Peak Sparda, defeated Mundus, fears his growing power, split his powers into Swords, sealed Force Edge into DW which holds majority of his power.
3) Weak Sparda, defeated Bolverk, survived against Argosax until he was sealed, survived against Medea untill she qas sealed Keyenes family in snowfield.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Well, to not remove any content that was already on his profile maybe something like this could work:

''Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Before awakening to justice and helping the humans against the demons, Sparda was Mundus's right and left hand, and was also one of the very reasons of why Mundus became a Demon King in the first place. Fought against Bolverk in the great war alongside Mundus for the control of the Demon World) | Low Multiverse level after awakening to justice (With the entirety of his powers, Sparda's singlehandedly defeated Mundus at his full power and his Demon Army. Separated the Human World and the Demon World once more after they were fused by Mundus, and placed seals binding the Demon World to prevent the reoccurrence of such an event; said seals were maintained by his raw power. Massively superior than his previous self, grown stronger just by existing to the point that he feared his own powers that he decide to seal a very good portion of then, created and sealed a good portion of his powers on the Rebellion, Yamato and Devil Sword Sparda. With the power given by the Devil Sword Sparda, which holds a considerable portion of his powers, but not the entirety of it, Dante was capable to fought and eventually defeat Mundus, and also to seal him away in a gap betwem the Human World and Demon World when Dante was unable to permanently kill him). Can ignore durability with Yamato | Low Multiverse level (While weakened, he defeated and sealed Bolverk, who was his nemesis at that time, and also defeated and sealed Argosax the Chaos, albeit with help from the Vie de Marli clan of sorcerers. Fought and sealed Medea with the help of the Guardian Family. Fought and sealed all the Demon Kings). Can ignore durability with Yamato''

What you guys think?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Wow, we need to shorten that

 

[Mister6ame6]

Wow, we need to shorten that

Well, what you propose? We nned to maintain the part that links to the blog and the sealing part with the swords, since Dante scale to this in DMC1.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Before awakening to justice, Sparda was Mundus's right and left hand, and was also one of the very reasons of why Mundus became a Demon King in the first place. Fought against Bolverk in the great war alongside Mundus for the control of the Demon World), higher after awakening to justice (Singlehandedly defeated Mundus at his full power and his Demon Army. Separated the Human World and the Demon World once more after they were fused by Mundus, and placed seals binding the Demon World to prevent the reoccurrence of such an event; said seals were maintained by his raw power) | Low Multiverse level (Massively superior than his previous self to the point that he feared his own powers, sealing a very good portion of it, also created the Rebellion, Yamato and Devil Sword Sparda with another part of his powers. With the power given by the Devil Sword Sparda, Dante was capable to fight and eventually defeat Mundus, and also to seal him away in a gap between the Human World and Demon World). Can ignore durability with Yamato | Low Multiverse level (While weakened, he defeated and sealed Bolverk, who was his nemesis at that time, and also defeated and sealed Argosax the Chaos, albeit with help from the Vie de Marli clan of sorcerers. Fought and sealed Medea with the help of the Guardian Family. Fought and sealed all the Demon Kings). Can ignore durability with Yamato

It's a complicated scaling so we can't expect somethimg really short, but I made a few changes and erased repeated links, should be fine this way

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

We may need a Profile for Medea...

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And Sparda absolutely helped fight Pluto, lets not bring fodder into this. Fighting/rallying against fodder is inconsequential. Same reason Sparda defeating army of hell isn't considered impressive.
We have pretty good contextual evidence for Sparda and Mundus fighting Pluto.

I don't see any proof of that.

"one of the very reasons of why Mundus became a Demon King in the first place"

That line is vague as hell, what does it even mean? Did he fight alongside him? Did he get the fruit for Mundus? Did he take control of the army so Mundus could fight Pluto directly? Did he fight pluto directly? Did he do this or that? There are a ton of possibilities and reasons why Sparda was there but none are definitive or indicative or a specific action.

To say that Sparda directly fought Pluto or alongside Mundus is disingenuous, more so considering Sparda was a general, his purpose was to direct Mundus armies along with the other generals.

Hell the dmc1 scans directly say how Mundus rallied an army against the god of evil and then slew him, this supports the idea of sparda controlling the army rather than fighting Pluto.

Ehh.. fire away I guess.
3 keys.
1) Faught Pluto alongside Mundus, formed rivalry with Bolverk.
2) Peak Sparda, defeated Mundus, fears his growing power, split his powers into Swords, sealed Force Edge into DW which holds majority of his power.
3) Weak Sparda, defeated Bolverk, survived against Argosax until he was sealed, survived against Medea untill she qas sealed Keyenes family in snowfield.

1) No proof of that, the bolverk that he fought can't be compared to the one Dante encountered since the ****** survived 1 fight with him
3) We don't know how the fight with argosax went beyond the fact that a whole clan of half demons was erradicated and that they sealed argosax. We don't know how strong medea is and it again wasn't something sparda did on his own.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

1) No proof of that, the bolverk that he fought can't be compared to the one Dante encountered since the ****** survived 1 fight with him

So you want two keys for Bolverk ?

Also surviving a fight against Dante isn't proof of anything, Mundus generals survived even more against a 2-C Dante and that has nothing on their scaling, the main difference being that DMC2 Dante is way more serious/straight to the point

If we can't have Past Bolverk at 2-C, what Tier do you suggest ?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I'll tackle the Pluto thingy tomorrow morning.

I'll just debunk the DMC2 stuff real quick.

1) No proof of that, the bolverk that he fought can't be compared to the one Dante encountered since the ****** survived 1 fight with

Many bosses have survived against him in fight. That's not a feat for them at all. By this logic Argosax/Despair is weaker than Bolverk because he died in single fight, while Bolverk ""survived"" one encounter.
We know Dante can spare fodder bosses unlike Demon Kings. While Bolverk isn't exactly fodder....he is still treated as fodder to Dante...more so than Argo. It's quite clear Dante kick his ass and showed him mercy.

3) We don't know how the fight with argosax went beyond the fact that a whole clan of half demons was erradicated and that they sealed argosax. We don't know how strong medea is and it again wasn't something sparda did on his own.

We know Sparda faught against Argo, but failed to kill him and needed the clan's help to seal the king. We use this currently as reason to scale 2nd key Sparda.
I don't know why you are suddenly treating it as something different than usual.

Medea is literally same case as far circumstances of fight go. If Sparda was unable to kill her she must be strong. Also Pluto treats her as colleague... equal even.
He wouldn't go out of his way to free her if she wasn't important. She scales to him.

 

[Mister6ame6]

We may need a Profile for Medea...

Well, probably, since she is part of PoC story, Pluto even planed to release her as we see when Dante fougth agaist him, we may see more of her in the future.

1) No proof of that, the bolverk that he fought can't be compared to the one Dante encountered since the ****** survived 1 fight with him

Proof that he was waaaaay more stronger then his version that fougth Sparda? Dante was holding back and you know that, BtN already mentioned that Dante see the entire of DMC2 events as easy job, and only remembered Oranguerra because of his ''funny face'', so Bolverk don't scale to DMC2 Dante, since we don't know how much power Dante used to kill him and whitheout proof we can make him scale to him.

3) We don't know how the fight with argosax went beyond the fact that a whole clan of half demons was erradicated and that they sealed argosax. We don't know how strong medea is and it again wasn't something sparda did on his own.

He still was capable to keep up with Argosax and not get killed like the clan of haif demons, so he still should scale to him regardless, Medea is a Demon Queen, so she scale to Pluto and the others low tiers Demon Kings.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If we can't have Past Bolverk at 2-C, what Tier do you suggest ?

Why would we treat past Bolverk any different?? Do we have any proof he went under amplifications in 2000 years between his fight against Sparda??

If not there's no reason to assume he got weaker or stronger.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Why would we treat past Bolverk any different?? Do we have any proof he went under amplifications in 2000 years between his fight against Sparda??

If not there's no reason to assume he got weaker or stronger.

I asked because maybe that's what Tony's thinking

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Tony wrong ~~as usual~~

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Maybe, we'll see what he has on store for us

For now I do see logic on his Pluto Vs General Sparda arguments, but said Sparda key would be 2-C regardless thanks to his fight against Bolverk at that time

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

So you want two keys for Bolverk ?

Do we need them?

Also surviving a fight against Dante isn't proof of anything, Mundus generals survived even more against a 2-C Dante and that has nothing on their scaling, the main difference being that DMC2 Dante is way more serious/straight to the point

The difference is that DMC2 Dante wasn't playing in the game, he just steamrolled everything into dying.

If we can't have Past Bolverk at 2-C, what Tier do you suggest ?

Idk, unknown? We still need to get feats for Demon Lords which he would obviously scale to

Many bosses have survived against him in fight. That's not a feat for them at all.

If you are talking about other games then yeah, but this is a different version of Dante that doesn't give a flying ****.

By this logic Argosax/Despair is weaker than Bolverk because he died in single fight, while Bolverk ""survived"" one encounter.

Who said I'm against this? The fact that Dante kills Argosax and the ****** still manages to transform into a stronger form is proof for him scaling higher anyways.

We know Dante can spare fodder bosses unlike Demon Kings. While Bolverk isn't exactly fodder....he is still treated as fodder to Dante...more so than Argo. It's quite clear Dante kick his ass and showed him mercy.

Again, this is DMC2. This version of Dante just killed everything in his path, there is no reason for him to let it live. In the cutscene when he escapes he looks fine.

We know Sparda faught against Argo, but failed to kill him and needed the clan's help to seal the king. We use this currently as reason to scale 2nd key Sparda. I don't know why you are suddenly treating it as something different than usual.

Yeah, in case you forgot we scale sealed Sparda to Argosax, not to the despair. And again, he had the help of a clan of demons and even with that they only managed to seal him at the cost of the clan itself.

Medea is literally same case as far circumstances of fight go. If Sparda was unable to kill her she must be strong. Also Pluto treats her as colleague... equal even. He wouldn't go out of his way to free her if she wasn't important. She scales to him.

We literally don't have any information beyond Sparda helping the protector family seal Medea. We don't know if they fought or anything or if Sparda did just seal her without doing anything else. It's all speculation without any proof.

Being important =/= powerful, let alone equally powerful as the demon king.

Proof that he was waaaaay more stronger then his version that fougth Sparda? Dante was holding back and you know that, BtN already mentioned that Dante see the entire of DMC2 events as easy job, and only remembered Oranguerra because of his ''funny face'', so Bolverk don't scale to DMC2 Dante, since we don't know how much power Dante used to kill him and whitheout proof we can make him scale to him.

Refer to my response above. There is zero proof that Dante was holding back, it was an "easy job" because he literally killed everything in his path without any form of opposition, with the only exception being Bolverk and argosax, everything else got stomped in 1 round without the need to bat an eye.

He still was capable to keep up with Argosax and not get killed like the clan of half demons, so he still should scale to him regardless, Medea is a Demon Queen, so she scale to Pluto and the others low tiers Demon Kings.

Yes, I know, we scale Sparda to Argosax the Chaos but it shouldn't fully scale as we have no knowledge of how things went down except for Sparda and Matier being the only survivors and how they only managed to seal Argosax.

Being a demon queen doesn't immediately make her comparable to other demon kings, for all we know she could be weaker than Nightmare and would still qualify for the tittle of queen as there is no one else stronger to take it from her. In the wildest of theories she could even be Pluto's wife hence the demon queen.



TL;DR:

* Medea being a "demon queen" is vague as hell and she doesn't have any statements or feats to scale to literally anyone, Sparda along with the family sealed her with even less trouble than Argosax.

* ******* Bolverk survived against Dante no-*****-given the demon slayer, this dante is far from his other incarnations as he literally killed everything in his way.

* Sealed Sparda scales to Argosax the Chaos (who is pretty much baseline too) and that's with the help of a clan full of half demons of whom only 1 survived the fight and even then they only sealed him.

 

[Mister6ame6]

The difference is that DMC2 Dante wasn't playing in the game, he just steamrolled everything into dying.

He was to some extent, He let Agnus live one time and when he killed he still ressurect because of Argosax's powers despite being capable to neg ressurection like no tomorrow, so DMC2 being more serius don't help much here.

you are talking about other games then yeah, but this is a different version of Dante that doesn't give a flying ****.

Responded above.

Who said I'm against this? The fact that Dante kills Argosax and the ****** still manages to transform into a stronger form is proof for him scaling higher anyways.

So are you saying that Bolverk is stronger then Argosax the Chaos? Well, fine for me, he already scale to comparable to Sealed Sparda that fougth agaist Argosax the Chaos in the war with the Vila of Marli Clan, and demons have their own form of Reactive Evolution, since they are capable to gain more demonic power if their hits or take hits from their opponents.

Again, this is DMC2. This version of Dante just killed everything in his path, there is no reason for him to let it live. In the cutscene when he escapes he looks fine.

Check my fist comment i'm responded that.

Yeah, in case you forgot we scale sealed Sparda to Argosax, not to the despair. And again, he had the help of a clan of demons and even with that they only managed to seal him at the cost of the clan itself.

The facth he survived and not got destroyed with the clan is proof that he scale to Argosax to some point in his Chaos form.

We literally don't have any information beyond Sparda helping the protector family seal Medea. We don't know if they fought or anything or if Sparda did just seal her without doing anything else. It's all speculation without any proof.

Similar case to Sparda + The Vila of Marli Clan vs Argosax, Sparda fought against her when the others help him and eventually sealed her.

Being important =/= powerful, let alone equally powerful as the demon king.

We are talking about demons that have the title of ''Demon Kings'' do you really believe they are weaker then ******* Nightmare if they hold such title in their hands? Despite demons names being one of the most important things to then?

Refer to my response above. There is zero proof that Dante was holding back, it was an "easy job" because he literally killed everything in his path without any form of opposition, with the only exception being Bolverk and argosax, everything else got stomped in 1 round without the need to bat an eye.

Indeed he killed everything in his path without any form of opposition, including Bolverk and Argosax, BtN makes pretty clear about this, no demon in DMC2 was relevant enougth for Dante to remember their existance, the entire of DMC2 events was just a average day of job for Dante.

Yes, I know, we scale Sparda to Argosax the Chaos but it shouldn't fully scale as we have no knowledge of how things went down except for Sparda and Matier being the only survivors and how they only managed to seal Argosax.

Sparda still downscale to him, since he survived their fight.

Being a demon queen doesn't immediately make her comparable to other demon kings, for all we know she could be weaker than Nightmare and would still qualify for the tittle of queen as there is no one else stronger to take it from her. In the wildest of theories she could even be Pluto's wife hence the demon queen.

Responded above on the name and title comment.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

He was to some extent, He let Agnus live one time and when he killed he still ressurect because of Argosax's powers despite being capable to neg ressurection like no tomorrow, so DMC2 being more serius don't help much here.

He wasn't. Him letting Arius live is PIS, killing Arius would end the game right there which is obviously something they don't want and considering how easily Dante killed him before the last mission it brings into doubt why he didn't do it earlier which again brings out the PIS argument. But regardless of Arius, he literally killed everything else without giving it a second thought.

Responded above.

Responded above.

So are you saying that Bolverk is stronger then Argosax the Chaos? Well, fine for me, he already scale to comparable to Sealed Sparda that fougth agaist Argosax the Chaos in the war with the Vila of Marli Clan, and demons have their own form of Reactive Evolution, since they are capable to gain more demonic power if their hits or take hits from their opponents.

I said I'm fine with it. Argosax is still stronger tho.

Check my fist comment i'm responded that.

Again, letting Arius live is pure plot armor, at the end the plot doesn't need him anymore and Dante kills him immediately.

The facth he survived and not got destroyed with the clan is proof that he scale to Argosax to some point in his Chaos form.

I can survive a gun shot and others could die for it, doesn't mean I scale to the power of the gun or some other idea like that. Once again we lack information besides "he survived", we don't know if it was an easy fight for him, a hard one, if he just stomped Argosax or if he just barely made it out.

Similar case to Sparda + The Vila of Marli Clan vs Argosax, Sparda fought against her when the others help him and eventually sealed her.

Same as above, we have literally no info on how things went down and like I said before we don't even know how strong Medea is.

We are talking about demons that have the title of ''Demon Kings'' do you really believe they are weaker then ******* Nightmare if they hold such title in their hands? Despite demons names being one of the most important things to then?

Oh yeah, I definitively think so, unless you can bring feats or scaling for them that doesn't rely on "they are kings". Don't mistake things there, Names aren't titles. Just because you have the title of "demon god ultra slayer of calamities and terror" doesn't mean you are comparable to another person.

ndeed he killed everything in his path without any form of opposition, including Bolverk and Argosax, BtN makes pretty clear about this, no demon in DMC2 was relevant enougth for Dante to remember their existance, the entire of DMC2 events was just a average day of job for Dante.

How does that change anything of what I said? For Dante it was an easy job because everything got ******* stomped to hell and back. For the demons present it was the apocalypse and the worst time of their lives where none survived. Bolverk managed to escape from Dante and fight him again, that's a feat for him. For Dante its like stomping an ant and looking it survive and try to run away only to get stomped again.

Sparda still downscale to him, since he survived their fight.

I can survive a car crash, that doesn't mean I scale to the car crash.

Responded above on the name and title comment.

You didn't. A title is only that, a title. It is representative of power, yes, but in a time that there weren't any strong demons with the top dog being Pluto I very much doubt she has a leg there. And I already responded above too.

 

[Mister6ame6]

He wasn't. Him letting Arius live is PIS, killing Arius would end the game right there which is obviously something they don't want and considering how easily Dante killed him before the last mission it brings into doubt why he didn't do it earlier which again brings out the PIS argument. But regardless of Arius, he literally killed everything else without giving it a second thought.

Is the same case Bolverk here my boy, he lived agaist Dante because of plot, he literally killed Argosax in one sigle fight, are you goin to say that Bolverk>Argosax now?

I said I'm fine with it. Argosax is still stronger tho.

Ok

Again, letting Arius live is pure plot armor, at the end the plot doesn't need him anymore and Dante kills him immediately.

Same case of Bolverk, he only lived because of plot, BtN literally confirms that.

I can survive a gun shot and others could die for it, doesn't mean I scale to the power of the gun or some other idea like that. Once again we lack information besides "he survived", we don't know if it was an easy fight for him, a hard one, if he just stomped Argosax or if he just barely made it out.

We don't knwo the details in their fight sure, but is not hard to imagine that Sparda stood ground against him, since to seal him away someone would have to be able to fight him or otherwise they would been destroyed in mere seconds, there is only one guy in that time that could stand a chance against a Demon King in DMC.

Same as above, we have literally no info on how things went down and like I said before we don't even know how strong Medea is.

Responded above, same case as Argosax, and also one thing to mention here, Medea mention that she need to recover her powers despite being free of the seal whitheout needing to break out of it, guess we know who was the one responsible for her being weaker right?

Pluto also mentions that since Sparda is gone, ''they era is finally beginning'', that's literally confirm that Sparda was very responsible for their downfalll, and that he treats Medeas as comparable to him.

Oh yeah, I definitively think so, unless you can bring feats or scaling for them that doesn't rely on "they are kings". Don't mistake things there, Names aren't titles. Just because you have the title of "demon god ultra slayer of calamities and terror" doesn't mean you are comparable to another person.

Pluto statement kinda already confirm that.

How does that change anything of what I said? For Dante it was an easy job because everything got ******* stomped to hell and back. For the demons present it was the apocalypse and the worst time of their lives where none survived. Bolverk managed to escape from Dante and fight him again, that's a feat for him. For Dante its like stomping an ant and looking it survive and try to run away only to get stomped again.

The problem is that we don't know hou much power Dante used to somp the ''Ant'' and we can't assume he used alot of his powers because that would break scaling.

I can survive a car crash, that doesn't mean I scale to the car crash.

Responded above and again, Pluto already confirm that by seeing that ''they era was begun''

You didn't. A title is only that, a title. It is representative of power, yes, but in a time that there weren't any strong demons with the top dog being Pluto I very much doubt she has a leg there. And I already responded above too.

Pluto teatred her as someone comparable to him my boy, are you gonna still keep seeing that she is a weakening when the Demon King hinself already recognizes her as his comparable?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Sparda wouldn't seal Medea if he was capable of killing her. He only resorts to sealing when he can't kill or its some utilitarian purpose such as Sins. So yes she is comparable to Sparda this is clearly the "can't kill" case.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Sparda wouldn't seal Medea if he was capable of killing her. He only resorts to sealing when he can't kill or its some utilitarian purpose such as Sins. So yes she is comparable to Sparda this is clearly the "can't kill" case.

Yeap, not to mention that PoC retconed DMC1 and 5 that Pluto died in DMC by the hands of Mundus, he was sealed with the others Demon Kings, so the only guy in Mundus's army that know sealing is Sparda, so DF statement holds more weight with that too.

''After consuming the fruit of the Qliphoth, he killed the former king of the Underworld'' this part need to be removed from Mundus's profile.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I rather go with the "It was never directly stated that Mundus killed Pluto" version of the story, you guys use retcons too easy as if it was that simple, this could even put doubt in POC's canonicity, as it would show a blalant contradiction to the Lore, so hear me, be careful with this

Both DMC1 and DMC5 statements are about Mundus betraying him and using the Fruit to become king, such statements are very loose and other interpretations can be used, after all, an act of treachery would be Mundus taking the Fruit to himself in order to take the Throne, right ?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeap, not to mention that PoC retconed DMC1 and 5 that Pluto died in DMC by the hands of Mundus, he was sealed with the others Demon Kings, so the only guy in Mundus's army that know sealing is Sparda, so DF statement holds more weight with that too.

''After consuming the fruit of the Qliphoth, he killed the former king of the Underworld'' this part need to be removed from Mundus's profile.

We know Mundus killed Pluto.

I don't see any retcons. There's most likely 2 different events involving Pluto.
His fighting with Mundus and his mysterious appearance in PoC...

 

[Lightning_XXI]

We know Mundus killed Pluto.

I don't see any retcons. There's most likely 2 different events involving Pluto.
His fighting with Mundus and his mysterious appearance in PoC...

Yes yes, I talked about it on discord

It leaves POC with a homework, explain what Pluto is doing there, I really hope that happens cuz the threads for non canon POC may return if such contradiction is just left in the air

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I wouldn't fret over it too much. Its just like Vergil's case.
Besides we don't even know half the story of what is going on in the damn game. We still have a lot to discover.
We just have to keep patience about us as more information will be revealed.
It's natural we come along some loose ends when discussing PoC as it is now, but nothing to get worked up over. We just accept some stuff is missing and wait for future.