DMC Downgrades (the ones everyone expected)

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Or maybe just mannered.

If you think your CRT will be passed just like that , when the respected admins have at best given opinion at start of CRT and have yet to reaffirm their vote after significant discussions have happened afterwards, some of which you haven't even addressed, especially Sevil who has pretty much spear headed Tier 1 DMC crusade.

Lol this is a major Tier 1 CRT for an entire , not some random vs match, you are way too arrogant and presumptuous if you think you can bulldoze you CRT through on some ""technicality of grace"" while rest of us sit here twiddling our thumbs like addled school kids.

Cope. Won't change the fact 3 admins have agreed with the downgrade so far. I'll respond to Sevil's thing after work.

 

[Robo432343]

Ovens, DDM, and Mav all agree with downgrading 1-C. That's 3 admins.

Ovens shouldnt be used as support at all.

 

[God900]

Jesus christ can the peanut gallery please shut up and let Fujiwara and the DMC bois debate in peace please? If you cant write a full thesis against and for the DMC tiering then please shut up, youre not contributing to the ******* topic

Don't swear please

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

He... literally agrees that 9D is iffy though?

 

[Gasper]

Ovens shouldnt be used as support at all.

Why

 

[Robo432343]

He... literally agrees that 9D is iffy though?

so? he didnt even understand the most basic part of the scale last time

 

[God900]

so? he didnt even understand the most basic part of the scale last time

Basically this ^^

 

[Cyberblader90]

did we ever get someone fluent to check the raws

 

[Arceus0x]

Ovens shouldnt be used as support at all.

do that kind of stuff and you'll get your ass beat like Kukui did that one time

 

[Robo432343]

and if you're using darkdragon as support too....darkdragon literally said tier 1 isn't his expertise...
all i have to say

 

[Gasper]

so? he didnt even understand the most basic part of the scale last time

Oven absolutely knows how power system works. I've seen alot of his arguments as well. Don't act like everything he says is irrelevant.

 

[God900]

....darkdragon literally said tier 1 isn't his expertise...

Literally this.....I love how the OP wants to rush this as possible.

 

[First_Witch]

Who’s that?

Not going to drop names, this topic is hot enough. Just saying that if you have little to no real expertise on the topic to just be quiet and let it unfold. Things like prematurely agreeing or disagreeing, citing people like their word is god, its not helpful. It is stressful enough for people to solo debate a entire fanbase, the least basic courtesy is to keep the arguments concise and easy to reply to. Something really hard to do when multiple people keep posting inbetween arguments

 

[Robo432343]

Oven absolutely knows how power system works. I've seen alot of his arguments as well. Don't act like everything he says is irrelevant.

what? im saying that staff should be used as support if they are actually knowledgeable on the verse

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-poc-chronicles-tier-1-the-reckoning.137245/

in this thread, oven literally got debunked by OP and gilver regarding 9D DMC and was trying to debunk thinks that got accepted way back

Imma stop now.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I wish we had a discord command of slow mode here.

You guys can stop now. I am interested in what Fuji has to retaliate on Sevil's post.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

did we ever get someone fluent to check the raws

No unfortunately I believe your comments may have got drowned in the discourse but...

Spoiler: Raws

I also want to point out that the Darkness being infinite isn’t flavor text, or just a sketchy localization. The RAWs, official TL, and Fan TL by Red, and the Devil’s Lair TL, all share the same line, with the very Kanji being “Infinite/Endless Darkness,” or “果てなき闇.”

^ This exactly.

Bayonetta and KH follow the same principle, because the descriptions used illustrate the same example without being verbatim infinite.


Sevil literally quotes where the two are directly referenced against each other.

"Unending darkness. A crucible of chaos. But even to that primordial existence,”

This DIRECTLY refers to the Endless Darkness. The World BORN of Darkness. This same World that is repeatedly given infinite statements. (One of them being this very Manga). With two extra that are admittedly localizations.

“…there came a ray of light.”

To that PRIMORDIAL EXISTENCE, to that ENDLESS AND INFINITE DARKNESS, came a RAY. OF. LIGHT.

Let me emphasize the comparison words. “TO THAT.” According to the manga, TO THAT Endless Darkness, (which it describes as much before it compares them), the Human World was a Ray of Light.

We aren’t quoting something that isn’t there.

Reposting so it doesn't get buried.

 

[chosen]

Hol up how tf y'all made 3 pages worth of messages in 15 hours

 

[Gasper]

Hol up how tf y'all made 3 pages worth of messages in 15 hours

Constant back and forth arguments.

 

[DOOMSLAYER127]

Not going to drop names, this topic is hot enough. Just saying that if you have little to no real expertise on the topic to just be quiet and let it unfold. Things like prematurely agreeing or disagreeing, citing people like their word is god, its not helpful. It is stressful enough for people to solo debate a entire fanbase, the least basic courtesy is to keep the arguments concise and easy to reply to. Something really hard to do when multiple people keep posting inbetween arguments

I understand

 

[Bobsican]

Was KH not rated as 2-A for a while?

It was, then it was found out that by tiering semantics it'd actually be Low 1-C, as 2-A was reliant on the space between worlds (aka, the Ocean Between) being infinite in comparison to the universes it contains, let alone even called an hyperspace in relation to them too.

Looking at discussion, so far I'm starting to get more neutral, but I'm still unsure on tier 1 DMC.

 

[JED]

Agree with the OP

 

[Transcending]

It not being infinite would, and if you have evidence the human world is not temporally infinite, then sure. But until you can bring that, no, I did not shoot myself in the foot.

Since this discussion got pretty wild, I have to ask, did anyone address this?

 

[Cyberblader90]

since alot is open to interpretation regarding both tier 1 arguments, how does 2-C, possibly Low 1-C or 1-C sound

 

[CRYING_POTATO_55]

disagree with the op

 

[DaReaperMan]

since alot is open to interpretation regarding both tier 1 arguments, how does 2-C, possibly Low 1-C or 1-C sound

That sounds better then sex.

 

[CRYING_POTATO_55]

since alot is open to interpretation regarding both tier 1 arguments, how does 2-C, possibly Low 1-C or 1-C sound

2c likely low 1c possibly 1c sounds good to me

 

[Bobsican]

Also, if the cosmology is no longer qualitatively 9-D and instead just goes to Low 1-C (or lower), there'd be no 9-D smurfness as there'd be nothing to prove such 9 dimensions are all qualitatively superior on that level to begin with.
Mainly saying this as it seems some would push for this otherwise.

 

[Comicgyal]

Alright so I’m neutral on 9-D Chinese wank, but I’m leaning towards disagree with the entire Low 1-C arguments.

To me, the ray of light analogy doesn’t sound like it’s referencing the human world to the demon world, and the details of the entire event of the world splitting aren’t well known. I can agree with 2-C, likely 1-C. And I’ll leave the 1-C to whatever else comes up.

 

[Gasper]

Ya'll can't just say "would this be better" without any arguments or proof.

 

[Comicgyal]

Ya'll can't just say "would this be better" without any arguments or proof.

What do you mean?

 

[RedReaper616]

One thing I will say is I want the PoC Soul statement to have its lettering looked over like Cyber does, because if what Cyber found is true it would literally mean the intent in the very language is higher spatial dimensions.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I mean if you want an argument it's very clear that the description for the chaos Stone in peak of combat is a retelling of the origin story of the current worlds that exist from the beginning of the DMC 3 manga

It's a bit contradictory to an extent but you could also simply argue that it's a retroactive retcon or that since POC is the newest material there's debate to be on which one would take more precedence.

 

[Gasper]

What do you mean?

I'm referring to these comments:

since alot is open to interpretation regarding both tier 1 arguments, how does 2-C, possibly Low 1-C or 1-C sound

Also, if the cosmology is no longer qualitatively 9-D and instead just goes to Low 1-C (or lower), there'd be no 9-D smurfness as there'd be nothing to prove such 9 dimensions are all qualitatively superior on that level to begin with.
Mainly saying this as it seems some would push for this otherwise.

How can you still be possibly 1-C if 9-D points where already addressed and debunked?

 

[Sevil Natas]

i love how still no one responded to my reply btw.

 

[RedReaper616]

How can you still ne possibly 9-D if those point where already addressed and debunked?

Because the scan itself wasn’t? The only thing contested was the Low 1-C ray Vs endless darkness, and it’s largely agreed to be up to interpretation. The 9-D scan is explicit and apparently uses the word for spatial dimensions, so it’s meaning is absolute. (Until someone proves it wrong.)

 

[Transcending]

i love how still no one responded to my reply btw.

Same

 

[Gasper]

Because the scan itself wasn’t? The only thing contested was the Low 1-C ray Vs endless darkness, and it’s largely agreed to be up to interpretation. The 9-D scan is explicit and apparently uses the word for spatial dimensions, so it’s meaning is absolute. (Until someone proves it wrong.)

How many times do i need to say this? Spatial dimensions are NEVER superior to one another without further context.

 

[Sevil Natas]

How can you still ne possibly 9-D if those point where already addressed and debunked?

because they werent? i addressed it before. the DW is both 9D & is infinite in size. and it held the human world as a small subset of itself. that is more than enough to qualify

 

[Gasper]

because they werent? i addressed it before. the DW is both 9D & is infinite in size. and it held the human world as a small subset of itself. that is more than enough to qualify

Being infinite spatial dimension dosen't mean you are literally infinitely superior to the lower one.

 

[Regidian]

Because the scan itself wasn’t? The only thing contested was the Low 1-C ray Vs endless darkness, and it’s largely agreed to be up to interpretation. The 9-D scan is explicit and apparently uses the word for spatial dimensions, so it’s meaning is absolute. (Until someone proves it wrong.)

Being spatial dimmension doesnt you have qualitative superiority over the other spatial dimmension.