DMC Downgrades (the ones everyone expected)

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

CRTs like this just proves how much of a mess tier 1 has been becoming in just a couple of years and getting rid of high 2-A still remains a mistake.

Also keep in mind two very knowledgeable staff members @Agnaa and @DontTalkDT let 9D pass based on a site standards technicality (which @Sevil Natas already pointed out), so until if/when tier 1 standards are revised again such fun this CRT is just going to end up in perpetual circles until "outdated" tier 1 standards change or other staff disprove their peers.

 

[StekFence]

TO THAT Endless Darkness, (which it describes as much before it compares them), the Human World was a Ray of Light.

It sounds more like To that is used to explain where the Ray of light went. Rather then saying it was like a ray to the darkness

 

[Random-Helper323]

I know 0 things about this verse

It shows.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Sevil literally quotes where the two are directly referenced against each other.

"Unending darkness. A crucible of chaos. But even to that primordial existence,”

This DIRECTLY refers to the Endless Darkness. The World BORN of Darkness. This same World that is repeatedly given infinite statements. (One of them being this very Manga). With two extra that are admittedly localizations.

“…there came a ray of light.”

To that PRIMORDIAL EXISTENCE, to that ENDLESS AND INFINITE DARKNESS, came a RAY. OF. LIGHT.

Let me emphasize the comparison words. “TO THAT.” According to the manga, TO THAT Endless Darkness, (which it describes as much before it compares them), the Human World was a Ray of Light.

We aren’t quoting something that isn’t there.

k

Can you point to where it says the human world is infinitesimal in comparison? I know it's a ray of light, we agree on that, very nice, but you still haven't proven it's infinitely small.

^ This exactly.

Bayonetta and KH follow the same principle, because the descriptions used illustrate the same example without being verbatim infinite.

I'm pretty sure that's from having a space containing a 2-A structure, which is very different than a space containing a handful of low 2-C structures. You can be larger than low 2-C and not be tier 1, but being larger than 2-A is low 1-C. Hope this clears things up.

The real life universe is infinite, the human world is the real life universe represented, Mundus' dimension is stated to be infinitely expanding which actually denotes infinite size, and the director said it was the same size as the real life universe.

Just because the real life universe might be infinite (it's only one of several theories) doesn't mean every fictional universe is infinite. We differentiate between 3-A and high 3-A for a reason, you know.

Being infinitely expanding doesn't mean you are already infinite. It doesn't mean anything for the size of the realm, just mean it's continually getting bigger.

 

[Gasper]

It shows.

Should i be offended?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

CRTs like this just proves how much of a mess tier 1 has been becoming in just a couple of years and getting rid of high 2-A still remains a mistake.

Also keep in mind two very knowledgeable staff members @Agnaa and @DontTalkDT let 9D pass based on a site standards technicality (which @Sevil Natas already pointed out), so until if/when tier 1 standards are revised again such fun this CRT is just going to end up in perpetual circles until "outdated" tier 1 standards change or other staff disprove their peers.

No offense, but where did this happen? Because I read the thread where 9D was accepted, and I only remember Ultima commenting his approval.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Should i be offended?

No, but your lack of knowledge on the verse is why you don't know the subject matter.

 

[Transcending]

Doesn't the last sentence imply that the smaller space not being infinite would disqualify it? Nice job shooting yourself in the foot.

It not being infinite would, and if you have evidence the human world is not temporally infinite, then sure. But until you can bring that, no, I did not shoot myself in the foot.

 

[Gasper]

No, but your lack of knowledge on the verse is why you don't know the subject matter.

That's why you're here to help me understand it, ya know.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Nice, but you're now focusing on this while ignoring the fact that the demon world is stated to be higher dimensional (you keep accusing me of lying even though this is linked to the verse page) and is the origin of 9-D souls. You've been doing that a lot here, focusing on individual pieces of information and acting as if they're in a vacuum.

The only link for higher-dimensional demon world is the 9D souls bit from PoC, and yes, I've checked all the relevant blogs on the verse page. You said repeatedly, so again, I would like to know where these extra statements are coming from, because they're sure as hell not on the verse page.

 

[Maxeez]

WWIII ahh crt

 

[Sevil Natas]

No offense, but where did this happen? Because I read the thread where 9D was accepted, and I only remember Ultima commenting his approval.

ultima approved. agnaa & DT didnt participate directly. but they did clear up some shit about the standards in another thread that i linked above. like the fact that you dont need qualitative superiority inorder for your higher dimensions to be treated as tier 1. something which you seem to ignore going by your replies above.

 

[Robo432343]

The only link for higher-dimensional demon world is the 9D souls bit from PoC, and yes, I've checked all the relevant blogs on the verse page. You said repeatedly, so again, I would like to know where these extra statements are coming from, because they're sure as hell not on the verse page.

i see it everyhwhere

 

[RedReaper616]

k

Can you point to where it says the human world is infinitesimal in comparison? I know it's a ray of light, we agree on that, very nice, but you still haven't proven it's infinitely small.

It’s literally referring to the Endless Darkness it prefaced with. It prefaces with “Unending/Endless/Infinite Darkness.” So if you read it in such, it would read “To the endless darkness came a ray of light.” The Darkness is endless compared to the Ray, or the light is a ray compared to the endless darkness, but in either context it explicitly paints a difference between a world that is infinite and how the other is a ray, as well as finite, in comparison.

I'm pretty sure that's from having a space containing a 2-A structure, which is very different than a space containing a handful of low 2-C structures. You can be larger than low 2-C and not be tier 1, but being larger than 2-A is low 1-C. Hope this clears things up.

2-B structure in the case of KH. Which is still not a 2-A structure. The statement itself also isn’t indicative of a verbatim infinite difference. Just a difference of massive margin.

 

[Random-Helper323]

That's why you're here to help me understand it, ya know.

I told everyone things that are stated, and presumably someone will bring the scans again, as someone already posted some of them to this thread earlier.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The only link for higher-dimensional demon world is the 9D souls bit from PoC, and yes, I've checked all the relevant blogs on the verse page. You said repeatedly, so again, I would like to know where these extra statements are coming from, because they're sure as hell not on the verse page.

Repeatedly referred to as the higher world, and other such things hinting at some higher or infinite existence, and the PoC scan clarified this after twenty frigging years by saying the souls return to a higher dimensional world, and we already know they return to the demon world.

 

[Gasper]

This is just going in circles at this point.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

ultima approved. agnaa & DT didnt participate directly. but they did clear up some shit about the standards in another thread that i linked above. like the fact that you dont need qualitative superiority inorder for higher dimensions to be treated as tier 1. something which you seem to ignore going by your replies above.

Which means they didn't actually directly agree with the thread...

It’s literally referring to the Endless Darkness it prefaced with. It prefaces with “Unending/Endless/Infinite Darkness.” So if you read it in such, it would read “To the endless darkness came a ray of light.” The Darkness is endless compared to the Ray, or the light is a ray compared to the endless darkness, but in either context it explicitly pains a difference between a world that is infinite and how the other is a ray, as well as finite, in comparison.

It doesn't say the darkness is infinite in comparison to the ray of light; Just that it is infinite, end of sentence. So yes, there is an infinite realm, and there is a realm that is "a ray of light" that's right next to it. That doesn't equate to transcendence, because 1. We don't actually know the size of the ray of light, and it isn't something that has a set size to begin with, and 2. The difference would still be countably infinite, and not uncountably infinite, the latter of which is what you need for tier 1.

2-B structure in the case of KH. Which is still not a 2-A structure. The statement itself also isn’t indicative of a verbatim infinite difference. Just a difference of massive margin.

Was KH not rated as 2-A for a while?

Repeatedly referred to as the higher world, and other such things hinting at some higher or infinite existence, and the PoC scan clarified this after twenty frigging years by saying the souls return to a higher dimensional world, and we already know they return to the demon world.

Okay, so what is the source for these claims? Because like I said, they're not on the verse page.

 

[Robo432343]

Okay, so what is the source for these claims? Because like I said, they're not on the verse page.

i see it everywhere

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

No offense, but where did this happen? Because I read the thread where 9D was accepted, and I only remember Ultima commenting his approval.

ultima approved. agnaa & DT didnt participate directly. but they did clear up some shit about the standards in another thread that i linked above. like the fact that you dont need qualitative superiority inorder for your higher dimensions to be treated as tier 1. something which you seem to ignore going by your replies above.

Which means...

so until if/when tier 1 standards are revised again such fun this CRT is just going to end up in perpetual circles until "outdated" tier 1 standards change or other staff disprove their peers.

I rest my case. I don't even think 9D DMC is legit either but as long it fits the VSBW standards this CRT isn't going to change much without first changing the status quo and/or staff intervention.

This is just going in circles at this point.

Yup.

 

[Robo432343]

come back to this thread when you change the FAQ
coz tier 1 DMC is mostly based on the FAQ which no one has debunked yet

 

[Random-Helper323]

come back to this thread when you change the FAQ
coz tier 1 DMC is mostly based on the FAQ which no one has debunked yet

And Sevil seems to think there's another grounds for the tiering. Maybe Sevil should bring it forward as further proof, just to cement things, although admittedly hiding things from haters is often a good idea.

 

[Robo432343]

the tier 1 dmc blog is right there which is based on the FAQ and still no one debunked that

 

[Gasper]

come back to this thread when you change the FAQ
coz tier 1 DMC is mostly based on the FAQ which no one has debunked yet

It has been, people just don't want to listen. There are still quite a few comments made by me that nobody bothered to debunk.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I rest my case. I don't even think 9D DMC is legit either but as long it fits the VSBW standards this CRT isn't going to change much without first changing the status quo and/or staff intervention.

This is just going in circles at this point.

We do actually have 3 staff agreeing with downgrading the 1-C/9D stuff, so once the grace period is over we could actually nuke that and save the low 1-C stuff for another day.

 

[Robo432343]

lol oven disagreed last time, tried to refute it and didnt even understand the most basic parts of the scale

https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-poc-chronicles-tier-1-the-reckoning.137245/

would you look at that
this is why i think using staff who dont properly understand a scale shouldnt be used as support
use staff who are knowledgable on the verse

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

We do actually have 3 staff agreeing with downgrading the 1-C/9D stuff, so once the grace period is over we could actually nuke that and save the low 1-C stuff for another day.

I'm not contesting the current staff input but that's not gonna hold up since none of the staff that actually approved of 9D DMC (iirc) have commented on this CRT and depending on the priorities, they might prefer addressing the FAQ first (whenever they do decide to actually revise tier 1 standards).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It'd be 3 to 3 even if every staff who approved it last time disagreed here, so it'd be a stalemate at the very worst.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I'm not contesting the current staff input but that's not gonna hold up since none of the staff that actually approved of 9D DMC (iirc) have commented on this CRT and depending on the priorities, they might prefer addressing the FAQ first (whenever they do decide to actually revise tier 1 standards).

Someone should make a Tier revision staff discussion?

 

[Robo432343]

i am pretty sure everyone is fine with tier 1 stuff?
some ppl just disagree with 9D dmc

 

[Arceus0x]

I feel as though nobody has bothered to call up mods who know their way around tier 1 to evaluate that. So far there's 1 staff agreement with the downgrade though it seems to be a jokish one. You can banter all you want but your arguments just go in a circle of "yes it is - no it isn't". Call some staff and have them tell you whether it is or it isn't.

 

[First_Witch]

Jesus christ can the peanut gallery please shut up and let Fujiwara and the DMC bois debate in peace please? If you cant write a full thesis against and for the DMC tiering then please shut up, youre not contributing to the ******* topic

 

[Gasper]

That's so stupid how

i am pretty sure everyone is fine with tier 1 stuff?
some ppl just disagree with 9D dmc

I'm not fine with low 1-C

 

[Sevil Natas]

We do actually have 3 staff agreeing with downgrading the 1-C/9D stuff, so once the grace period is over we could actually nuke that and save the low 1-C stuff for another day.

woah back up there partner there isnt even a "grace" period for CRTS lmfao. and all those agreements, that was before all the discussion we had. and you still have to address my reply. also it's just 2 agreements. Glass wasnt being serious (shit i hope so) and for DDM he didnt give a straight up agreement only that he found it iffy.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

It'd be 3 to 3 even if every staff who approved it last time disagreed here, so it'd be a stalemate at the very worst.

No, or we would have to call all the Staff that participated on it.

Agna pointed out that this doesn't go out from standarts.

Obv, unless u want to change them.

So you first better gotta debate those Staff members, or create a Staff thread.

 

[Gasper]

I feel as though nobody has bothered to call up mods who know their way around tier 1 to evaluate that. So far there's 1 staff agreement with the downgrade though it seems to be a jokish one. You can banter all you want but your arguments just go in a circle of "yes it is - no it isn't". Call some staff and have them tell you whether it is or it isn't.

That's not how it works, staff are not omniscient and are not necessarily always right.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I feel as though nobody has bothered to call up mods who know their way around tier 1 to evaluate that. So far there's 1 staff agreement with the downgrade though it seems to be a jokish one. You can banter all you want but your arguments just go in a circle of "yes it is - no it isn't". Call some staff and have them tell you whether it is or it isn't.

Ovens, DDM, and Mav all agree with downgrading 1-C. That's 3 admins.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Stage 1: Denial.

Or maybe just mannered.

If you think your CRT will be passed just like that , when the respected admins have at best given opinion at start of CRT and have yet to reaffirm their vote after significant discussions have happened afterwards, some of which you haven't even addressed, especially Sevil who has pretty much spear headed Tier 1 DMC crusade.

Lol this is a major Tier 1 CRT for an entire , not some random vs match, you are way too arrogant and presumptuous if you think you can bulldoze you CRT through on some ""technicality of grace"" while rest of us sit here twiddling our thumbs like addled school kids.

 

[DOOMSLAYER127]

Jesus christ can the peanut gallery please shut up

Who’s that?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

woah back up there partner there isnt even a "grace" period for CRTS lmfao. and all those agreements, that was before all the discussion we had. and you still have to address my reply. also it's just 2 agreements. Glass wasnt being serious (shit i hope so) and for DDM he didnt give a straight up agreement only that he found it iffy.

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