DMC: A Rather Controversial Revision

[SuperSonicTL]

This is weird headcanon. The light is obviously the human, and even in the manga scan the light that is the human world precedes the split occurring, and there's no conceivable basis for a demon lord to be called the light.

Then go on and explain what that second light is? There is no second light in the entire series soo it raises numerous question what it is tbw.

And no, the manga doesn't says anything about another light, You can only make sense out of it if you assume Human World one day decided to randomly spawn outside of Underworld's infinite expense which leads into logical fallacy because Demon World clearly won't let it get away from it like that so something has to separate it and only Pluto is capable of such a feat at that point which is further supported by manga and Brady's guidebook

It just doesn't work no matter how you look at it.

 

[Ningenron]

It literally talks about separating heaven (demon world) and earth (Human world). Unless some mental gimnasticas are involved, it's hard to read the text and come to another conclusion.

So you just ignored the entirety of my argument regarding this? Cool.

There is evidence that the worlds were separated, this same book mentions how a demon god (named pluto in the eng localization) will be the one performing it

You're just repeating yourself; I already address these.

same with Arkham retelling of the story about the creation of the world.

He's retailing Sparda’s story.

I know you didn't even bother to read the manga so allow me to repeat myself, the ******* world was unstable after the human world was born, both worlds were being torn apart so he had to come in and do it.

You guys really focusing on the instability part; that shit is referring to how the human world and demon world were clashing over and over and the humans getting slaughtered, hence chaos was produced repeatedly.

It would be if Arkham wasn't talking about the literal genesis of the world when telling that story. Sparda and Mundus came in only 2k years prior to the main story and god knows how long after the genesis.

He wasn't talking about the genesis, what? Even then, that'd be irrelevant, because the statement of Sparda coming says 'At some point/For the umpteenth time'—which you just ignored—implying time passed since the previous panel.

You translated these and yet you are turning a blind eye to them.

It literally says there that the world was unstable from being born and both were suffering from this, during one of the many times both worlds were being torn apart a demon came in and struck a stake.

It's, as it says, during the times or close to the creation of the world.

Exactly what's ambiguous here? I can't spoon feed you everything.

"You're joking, right? 'During the birth of the earth and the heavens' and 'Heaven and earth were from birth/inherently unstable' aren't the same at all, like what? The former is speaking within the period, while the latter is talking in the past tense; completely different nuance.

And again, you guys are still focusing too much on the instability tidbits. The context is still about how the human world and demon world were clashing over and over, with humans getting slaughtered. That’s why Sparda came and struck the Earth so it wouldn’t be torn/split apart by the heaven. That’s the entirety of the context you keep ignoring while making stuff up instead. like, hes literally doing it for the sake of humans.

Exactly what's ambiguous here? I can't spoon feed you everything.

You pretty much know but turning an blind eye to it.

Ah yes, definitively talking about Mundus who's intentions and actions are the exact opposite, 100% him

You have yet, or anybody for that matters, address my nuances argument there. So yeah. It's him.

Unless now you think Mundus has black wings.

Even ignoring Kamiya's tweet it's clear to anyone who bothered to play the series this isn't about Mundus.

OP already address this.

What light? Ohh, you are talking about a non-existent PoC scan... well, sad for you because it doesn't exist nor is it canon

I don't care about PoC or whether some of its scans are nonexistent or not canon; that's y'all's game.

I'm arguing from the Manga: the light spawned, the world was eventually split into two, and Pluto is nowhere mentioned or said to have involvement, nor is there any reason for it.

Like, think about it: a single world existed, some new world came, and now there are two. Therefore, the original world is split. It's not hard to interpret.

Official PoC staff. He explicitly stated in that same stream that they got permissions from capcom and itsuno to do with the story as they please. Way more power than any of us here to state and claim stuff.

Thats not a direct evidence; provide some of him of having such authority to shape the main series lore however he likes.


Funny how you also ignore a couple points of my arguments, also.

 

[Deagonx]

Then go on and explain what that second light is?

No second light is mentioned. You extrapolated from a very dubious premise.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

No second light is mentioned. You extrapolated from a very dubious premise.

It says "First" light Deagon. You can't make this up.

However, even if I disregard this situation, I can still argue that the "splitting in halve" stuff is talking about it in poetic fashion as to how Human World coming into Demon World caused wide spread chaos inside the structure which is consistent according to how manga is depicting the event so it ultimately wouldn't mean anything at the end of the day.

 

[GarrixianXD]

After reading arguments from both sides and doing a bit of research on the Chinese side of the PoC content myself, I'm more inclined to agree with the OP.

 

[Agnaa]

I think the back and forth between Ningenron and SuperSonicTL has run it's course.

@Agnaa do you have any thoughts on the OP? And specifically this point?

引き裂く doesn't mean 'to separate'; it means 'to tear apart to pieces' or 'to disturb,' 'rent asunder', etc. It's just saying he's going to mess things up. 分離する is the term that actually means 'to separate.'

引き裂く kinda can mean "to separate", but only really in the context of interpersonal relationships, like divorce, or these sorts of examples:

だれも彼らの仲を引き裂けない。

No-one could tear apart their relationship.

その事件で彼と彼の友人の仲は引き裂かれてしまった。

That incident ended up ruining his relationship with his friend.

While 分離 is a much more general word for separation, which would be the term of choice for separating two currently merged worlds.

Although we can describe both in similar ways in English (leading to this confusion), this doesn't really seem like a confusion that would come up between native Japanese speakers. Or a case where using 引き裂く in reference to two worlds could mean either depending on the context; only one meaning really fits the context of worlds (EDIT: And that meaning is "to tear apart").

Apologies about the delay, I've been flat out at work the last few days.

 

[Ningenron]

Although we can describe both in similar ways in English (leading to this confusion), this doesn't really seem like a confusion that would come up between native Japanese speakers. Or a case where using 引き裂く in reference to two worlds could mean either depending on the context; only one meaning really fits the context of worlds.

While that's true, and nobody is denying that, the issue is that kanji is never used to mean such a thing specifically in the series, as I already elaborated here;

It's not referring to literal separation, based on the fact that the same/similar kanji has already been used in the series, and it wasn’t describing things being actually separated; the manga scan of DMC 3 uses 裂ける, the potential form of 裂く, which means to tear,and guess what;

In the past, the heavens easily flipped over, and the earth split greatly over and over. Heaven and earth were from birth/inherently unstable, and from their boundary, chaos was produced repeatedly. The panicking people, helpless, lost many lives every time heaven and earth fought.

At some point/For the umpteenth time, when heaven and earth flipped over again, a demon with black horns appeared; he drove a massive stake into the earth so that the earth would never split again. However, because the stake tried to escape on its own, he bound 'the undying one' to the stake, making it an eternal seal

As you can see, the context of the statement is clear: Heaven was constantly overturning the Earth (the Human Realm), splitting it apart repeatedly, leaving its people hopeless and dying. At some point, however, a black-horned demon appeared and struck the Earth with a massive spike, ensuring it would never be split apart again—essentially preventing it from being overturned or attacked in such a way ever again. (Note: I originally translated 裂ける here as "split" instead of "tear" to show how it doesn't work grammatically or fit the sentence and context.)

Now, you might be wondering where I'm going with all this. It's the fact that 引き裂く is what's used in the prophecy scan, and guess what? It's another form of 裂く, which means to tear up into pieces and the like.

TL;DR: The statement is just talking about him messing things up, nothing more, nothing less.

Not to mention, in the verse's creation myth sequences, the term used in reference to the world splitting is 分かれた, a completely different thing with the provided context.

Just a minor tidbits I feel would be relevant.

 

[GilverFortuna]

I once again ask why the hell would Sparda separate the two worlds if it went against his master's wishes? He was the most loyal and devoted servant before he woke up to justice, so, again, why the hell would he do something that directly meddled with Mundus's agenda?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

While that's true, and nobody is denying that, the issue is that kanji is never used to mean such a thing specifically in the series, as I already elaborated here;

Not to mention, in the verse's creation myth sequences, the term used in reference to the world splitting is 分かれた, a completely different thing with the provided context.

Just a minor tidbits I feel would be relevant.

Just because it's used before somewhere doesn't mean it will mean the same thing lmao

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Okay soo after I dived into the story again according to this revelation here, I think I uncovered the entire story behind world creation upto Sparda sealing the Underworld away. I concede here for now.

My only wish is to make Pluto's profile PoC exclusive because I've some doubts to clear later on the line for everyone here in another thread regarding the lore someday and it would be a waste of work to nuke his profile anyway.

 

[Ningenron]

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Don't get too happy, Pluto still separated the world and I'll explain later how, when and why.

 

[Deagonx]

What, if any, information can be gathered about "Pluto" exclusively from POC, if the actual DMC content was misinterpreted? @Ningenron

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

What, if any, information can be gathered about "Pluto" exclusively from POC, if the actual DMC content was misinterpreted? @Ningenron

Kamiya literally say that Pluto is not Mundus. And he didn't say that Pluto was a translation error.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Kamiya literally say that Pluto is not Mundus. And he didn't say that Pluto was a translation error.

This isn't a confirmation that there was a Pluto that split the worlds either. This was addressed in OP. It objectively was a translation error too.

 

[Deagonx]

Kamiya literally say that Pluto is not Mundus. And he didn't say that Pluto was a translation error.

It's not helpful to just rehash the same argument we just had. My question is: What information about Pluto exists solely within POC? What would a "POC-only" version of the profile actually look like?

 

[Ningenron]

What, if any, information can be gathered about "Pluto" exclusively from POC, if the actual DMC content was misinterpreted? @Ningenron

Well, to be honest, we can’t say much since the PoC story ends with only 14 chapters so far. But from what we know, he's most likely the Demon Lord that Matilda fought and sealed his power inside six different artifacts, which is why he refers to them as his own. on top of that, he's like, the only Demon Lord mentioned in PoC so far so it's doubtful it's referring to someone's else.

There's also his description card which says;

A frightening demon lord who has countless demons under his command; his sole purpose is to take over the world and reduce all living things to ashes, turning the living realm into another Underworld and enslaving all humans with suffering and pain.

But you probably already know about this tidbit.