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Geralt has knowledge on The World my friend, and he knows what time stop is.
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Dio vs Geralt
- Thread starter 00potato
- Start date
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Somehow missed that part, I feel like that wasnt there when the thread first started. Either way, what's that even mean? He knows about The World but that doesnt mean he knows about time stop. He just knows it exists, OP is going to have to clarify, even then knowing about time stop doesnt mean you can really work around it, you're a sitting duck no matter what you do.
Also, according to The Witcher Wiki, Quen takes energy to use (and as such only has so many uses being capable in succession, can be mitigated through other means but not exactly helpful if Geralt is being forced to apply it nonstop because of time stop+muda spam), only last so many hits (Except in Witcher 2, where it lasts half a minute), and dispells if Geralt himself attacks or uses another sign, although it doesnt clarify if that's the case Past Witcher 1. (Edit: It's no longer an issue past W1, but has another downside to compensate).
If even one, let alone all three are true, Quen really isnt much of a issue, like at all.
Also, according to The Witcher Wiki, Quen takes energy to use (and as such only has so many uses being capable in succession, can be mitigated through other means but not exactly helpful if Geralt is being forced to apply it nonstop because of time stop+muda spam), only last so many hits (Except in Witcher 2, where it lasts half a minute), and dispells if Geralt himself attacks or uses another sign, although it doesnt clarify if that's the case Past Witcher 1. (Edit: It's no longer an issue past W1, but has another downside to compensate).
If even one, let alone all three are true, Quen really isnt much of a issue, like at all.
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I mean, if Geralt uses Quen when DIO shouts "THE WORLD", it doesn't matter if it drains energy since in stopped time the energy drain is not active.
Also, I'm pretty sure knowledge on The World means he knows about time stop. Like, even the OP wasn't rejecting that.
Also, I'm pretty sure knowledge on The World means he knows about time stop. Like, even the OP wasn't rejecting that.
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Either way, what's that even mean? He knows about The World but that doesnt mean he knows about time stop. He just knows it exists, OP is going to have to clarify, even then knowing about time stop doesnt mean you can really work around it, you're a sitting duck no matter what you do.
Read again what Spooky said. Geralt knows what time stop is. He knows The World can use time stop, and know that his chance to survive is using Quen. Geralt's knowledge of time stop comes from Gaunter, who explains to Geralt that there are 3 dimensions of space, and a fourth dimension, which is time. While time was stoped, Gaunter demonstrates that he "taught himself" how to master time. Geralt saw that everyone stopped for time would be vulnerable, since Gaunter with a simple spoon can kill a man by sticking it in his eye and going through the brain. A perfect scenario to use Quen.
Also, according to The Witcher Wiki, Quen takes energy to use (and as such only has so many uses being capable in succession, can be mitigated through other means but not exactly helpful if Geralt is being forced to apply it nonstop because of time stop+muda spam), only last so many hits (Except in Witcher 2, where it lasts half a minute), and dispells if Geralt himself attacks or uses another sign, although it doesnt clarify if that's the case Past Witcher 1.
Like, 90% of what you said is game mechanics, only that. "only last so many hits" based on what? Quen being destroyed when a enemy is 10 levels above you? Obviously game mechanics, unless we can use it, then we can abuse of builds made in-game, then you can put all Jojo's main characters to see if the fight is fair.
Anyway, Quen drain Geralt's energy, yes. So what? Time will be stopped. No energy will be used during this. Quen only dispells because Geralt use his both hands to attack, and one of them was the using Quen. Want to know something? That's only happens in game.
Read again what Spooky said. Geralt knows what time stop is. He knows The World can use time stop, and know that his chance to survive is using Quen. Geralt's knowledge of time stop comes from Gaunter, who explains to Geralt that there are 3 dimensions of space, and a fourth dimension, which is time. While time was stoped, Gaunter demonstrates that he "taught himself" how to master time. Geralt saw that everyone stopped for time would be vulnerable, since Gaunter with a simple spoon can kill a man by sticking it in his eye and going through the brain. A perfect scenario to use Quen.
Also, according to The Witcher Wiki, Quen takes energy to use (and as such only has so many uses being capable in succession, can be mitigated through other means but not exactly helpful if Geralt is being forced to apply it nonstop because of time stop+muda spam), only last so many hits (Except in Witcher 2, where it lasts half a minute), and dispells if Geralt himself attacks or uses another sign, although it doesnt clarify if that's the case Past Witcher 1.
Like, 90% of what you said is game mechanics, only that. "only last so many hits" based on what? Quen being destroyed when a enemy is 10 levels above you? Obviously game mechanics, unless we can use it, then we can abuse of builds made in-game, then you can put all Jojo's main characters to see if the fight is fair.
Anyway, Quen drain Geralt's energy, yes. So what? Time will be stopped. No energy will be used during this. Quen only dispells because Geralt use his both hands to attack, and one of them was the using Quen. Want to know something? That's only happens in game.
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I don't know how you missed it, especially given you have been shown numerous examples by now but Dio doesn't need to shout The World, in fact quite literally over half of all usages of time stop did not have him saying it, now I know you're going to say well High Dio said the world, which while true completely ignores the fact that Dio doesn't shout The World, or make any hint towards what he's doing or what his power is if he doesnt think his opponent knows about his power. As far as Dio is concerned, he's in a fight and he, much like literally every Stand Villain ever, keeps their ability hidden and tries to keep their opponent from finding out (Hell, it's even pointed out by one of Dio's men that Stand User's dont tell or even hint at others about their powers unless they already won, it's even a thing in Part 8 still where doing that is a no go). There's a reason why Dio never said Za Warudo before a certain point, he not only didnt need to but keeping that information close or giving his opponents an unneeded edge is something he wants to prevent, Dio only began saying The World after Jotaro knew, prior to that he didn't do it, not even while we, the audience knew that he could stop time, he still refrained from saying it till Joseph explained he knew about time stop and yelled it at Jotaro. Now, why would Dio yell The World against Geralt if Dio is under the assumption Geralt doesn't know anything about him? Even if Geralt knows about time stop, Dio doesnt know that he knows, as such Dio's just gonna do what he always does in character, and that's shut the **** up and keep his powers hidden. Made even worse because while base Dio is cocky and while smart may **** around a bit if he thinks he can but High Dio is still as intelligent as base Dio, just more brutal and straight to the point, even using time stop more now that he has no hard limit.So no, in context, Dio won't be shouting The World.
So, assuming the most recent version of Quen shown is what's being used.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Quen only last so many hits (Kinda a issue against someone who can stop time and land a few thousand in a second), costs energy (While not much of a issue nomally, it becomes one when Geralt has to apply it again numerous times within seconds) also he doesnt heal while it's up.
So, assuming the most recent version of Quen shown is what's being used.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Quen only last so many hits (Kinda a issue against someone who can stop time and land a few thousand in a second), costs energy (While not much of a issue nomally, it becomes one when Geralt has to apply it again numerous times within seconds) also he doesnt heal while it's up.
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>Like, 90% of what you said is game mechanics, only that. "only last so many hits" based on what? Quen being destroyed when a enemy is 10 levels above you?
No by the fact every time Quen is hit it's meter decreases till it breaks, reading comprehension, I explained exactly what I meant. I never even mentioned Quen breaking in one hit, in fact I said the exact opposite in that it wouldn't break in one hit can is basically a free lol nope for the hits in which it says active.
>Obviously game mechanics, unless we can use it, then we can abuse of builds made in-game, then you can put all Jojo's main characters to see if the fight is fair.
You say obviously game mechanics but I'm not seeing what's so obvious about it, you have to actually explain why this clearly shown drawback is game mechanics. It would need to be hard contradicted elsewhere for it not to be gameplay mechanics, if you have an explicit contradiction then show it. Also fine by me I guess, GER and Act 4 exists mind you.
>Anyway, Quen drain Geralt's energy, yes. So what? Time will be stopped. No energy will be used during this. Quen only dispells because Geralt use his both hands to attack, and one of them was the using Quen.
Not entirely true, things Dio interacts with tend to be set in motion temporarily. If he punches the shield, it could possibly drain the energy for a split second. Regardless, the moment time stop ends it'd shatter assuming it can only take so many hits, and dio stopping time again is faster on the draw then reapplying Quen.
>Only happens in game.
Geralt of Rivia (Video Games) ƒñö
No by the fact every time Quen is hit it's meter decreases till it breaks, reading comprehension, I explained exactly what I meant. I never even mentioned Quen breaking in one hit, in fact I said the exact opposite in that it wouldn't break in one hit can is basically a free lol nope for the hits in which it says active.
>Obviously game mechanics, unless we can use it, then we can abuse of builds made in-game, then you can put all Jojo's main characters to see if the fight is fair.
You say obviously game mechanics but I'm not seeing what's so obvious about it, you have to actually explain why this clearly shown drawback is game mechanics. It would need to be hard contradicted elsewhere for it not to be gameplay mechanics, if you have an explicit contradiction then show it. Also fine by me I guess, GER and Act 4 exists mind you.
>Anyway, Quen drain Geralt's energy, yes. So what? Time will be stopped. No energy will be used during this. Quen only dispells because Geralt use his both hands to attack, and one of them was the using Quen.
Not entirely true, things Dio interacts with tend to be set in motion temporarily. If he punches the shield, it could possibly drain the energy for a split second. Regardless, the moment time stop ends it'd shatter assuming it can only take so many hits, and dio stopping time again is faster on the draw then reapplying Quen.
>Only happens in game.
Geralt of Rivia (Video Games) ƒñö
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>Only happens in game.
pretty much a point for game mechanics
pretty much a point for game mechanics
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>You just read a wiki. My dude, we're literally on a wiki. This wiki is the definition of taking wiki's as gospel, that's basically what vs matches are, taking the profiles and treating them as fact in a match to judge an outcome. I don't think you realize how ironic that is. And yes, I read a Wiki made by fans like you, I already gave an open invitation to prove it isnt game mechanics, it's up to you to prove that it's simply a game balance mechanic and in canon no such limitation exists by supplying a contradiction. Otherwise I really don't have a reason not to believe the wiki (or the ten different videos I watched featuring Quen and Quen strats).
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,349
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It's always Quen that causes issues, isn't it?
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aight
The all times Quen was used in cutscenes I guess
Geralt and Lambert protecting themselves from a meteor
Eskel using Quen against Caranthir's ice (sorry can't find it now)
Using it against Bruxa, and another time against Bruxa in the books when she shouted a sonic boom
Other times I can't remember, sorry, not everybody has such fresh memory and will to search through everything on the series like you
The all times Quen was used in cutscenes I guess
Geralt and Lambert protecting themselves from a meteor
Eskel using Quen against Caranthir's ice (sorry can't find it now)
Using it against Bruxa, and another time against Bruxa in the books when she shouted a sonic boom
Other times I can't remember, sorry, not everybody has such fresh memory and will to search through everything on the series like you
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But which one of those proves that Quen won't break after like 10 or so distinct attacks like it does in game? You linked examples of it tanking attacks, but we already know it can tank attacks, multiple even, the issue is that it seemingly has a limit. In fact the links you sent look exactly how it's potrayed in game as well, meaning from the looks of it, there isnt really a discrepancy.
>sorry, not everybody has such fresh memory and will to search through everything on the series like you
Why do you word that like it's a bad thing? Shouldn't looking through things to back up your claims or look through things to understand the opposition be the norm?
>sorry, not everybody has such fresh memory and will to search through everything on the series like you
Why do you word that like it's a bad thing? Shouldn't looking through things to back up your claims or look through things to understand the opposition be the norm?
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It does in the game because if it could be used eternally it would be FAR too overpowered as it sets opponent on fire, PROTECTS HIM FROM EVERYTHING, reflects 50% of damage and heals Geralt.
Now, Geralt just turned it off to attack his opponents with sword.
And where did you pull that from that I think it's a bad thing? I just don't have will to search through all of that, I just want to make some things clear.
Now, Geralt just turned it off to attack his opponents with sword.
And where did you pull that from that I think it's a bad thing? I just don't have will to search through all of that, I just want to make some things clear.
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Except you're just assuming that's the case, yet what we see contradicts your claim. You can't say oh it's game mechanics without proving it actually is. We have no reason to assume it's game mechanics, is it gameplay balanicing? Yeah probably, but that doesn't invalidate it.
If Quen is hown to break after 10 or so hits in game, then it breaks after ten or so hits. The only way that wouldn't be the case is if there exists a statement that says Quen lasts forever or Quen can take a fuckton of seperate hits, that or it's shown to, whether that be in a cutscene, a comic or something else, to take more hits in succession without it getting reapplied, than it can in game. If no such things exist then by all accounts, whether you like it or not, is a limitation of the spell. Andthe things you linked is how it's potrayed in game too, if it looks the same in both the games and cutscens and acts the same as well from what we see? Why cherry pick and say it's draw back doesnt actually exist when literally nothing contradicts it or says or even hints otherwise from what you've shown.
Hell, I'm pretty sure some of the benefits don't even appear in cutscenes, feels like double standards to me. I'm still open to evidence that it's game mechanics, but simply saying it isnt because it'd be strong doesnt automatically mean it isnt true.
>And where did you pull that from that I think it's a bad thing?
I said you worded it like it's a bad thing, which you did. Surely you've heard that phrasing before? Now whether or not you meant for it tobe read like that, well it's already done with, doesnt matter anyway.
If Quen is hown to break after 10 or so hits in game, then it breaks after ten or so hits. The only way that wouldn't be the case is if there exists a statement that says Quen lasts forever or Quen can take a fuckton of seperate hits, that or it's shown to, whether that be in a cutscene, a comic or something else, to take more hits in succession without it getting reapplied, than it can in game. If no such things exist then by all accounts, whether you like it or not, is a limitation of the spell. Andthe things you linked is how it's potrayed in game too, if it looks the same in both the games and cutscens and acts the same as well from what we see? Why cherry pick and say it's draw back doesnt actually exist when literally nothing contradicts it or says or even hints otherwise from what you've shown.
Hell, I'm pretty sure some of the benefits don't even appear in cutscenes, feels like double standards to me. I'm still open to evidence that it's game mechanics, but simply saying it isnt because it'd be strong doesnt automatically mean it isnt true.
>And where did you pull that from that I think it's a bad thing?
I said you worded it like it's a bad thing, which you did. Surely you've heard that phrasing before? Now whether or not you meant for it tobe read like that, well it's already done with, doesnt matter anyway.
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Aight. Sorry but I'm not responding to that, too tired. I could bring some scans but sorry, I'm not really the kind of man to go and do the thing I really don't care about anymore when I don't have to do it. Goodnight
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I'm kinda leaning towards Dio at the moment.
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well, I'm not even talking about the fact that he may just put DIO to sleep and make him wait until morning or that he could mindhax him sooner or later if he's too much of a threat, but I'm not interested anymore
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>when I don't have to do it.
But, you litterally do have to do it. You have to back up your claim. You can't just say no it's game mechanics and not provide evidence as to why. Hell, I went and compiled imgur albums for my claims when I really shouldnt of had to given it's listed on basically every profile. I can understand not wanting to do or being tired, but I can't accept your word against the wiki and the very game itself without evidence, which is all I'm asking, one example of that limitation not existing within canon, cutscene, comic, I dont care which, any is fine.
>putting Dio to sleep and waiting till morning.
Nice try but SBA clearly dictates that it's always night for Dio, and any character like him for that matter, unless otherwise specified. Also if The World is already summoned, there's a chance it could just wake Dio's ass up given The World is a sentient Stand (even if it aint obvious like Sex Pistols). Also why we assuming he'd even use that? Dude barely even used it in his own games, it's one of his least used spells. Quen, Axii and Somne are barely used in character unless against certain opponents or absolutely needed and honestly, thinking on it, I don't even think Geralt would use those, given he knows about The World, he doesn't know about Dio's weaknesses or the fact that thing's like Axii get negated if he inflicts enough damage to his foe, and Dio can definitely survive a bit of heavy damage (Actually Dio having Regenerationn above even the vamps in his series, that's applicable in a fight anywa, may open Geralt up to attack if he thinks Dio is dead or dying from a wound that actually isnt that much of an issue only for Dio to counter with time stop like he often does upon taking damage, plus Dio isnt weak to silver).
But, you litterally do have to do it. You have to back up your claim. You can't just say no it's game mechanics and not provide evidence as to why. Hell, I went and compiled imgur albums for my claims when I really shouldnt of had to given it's listed on basically every profile. I can understand not wanting to do or being tired, but I can't accept your word against the wiki and the very game itself without evidence, which is all I'm asking, one example of that limitation not existing within canon, cutscene, comic, I dont care which, any is fine.
>putting Dio to sleep and waiting till morning.
Nice try but SBA clearly dictates that it's always night for Dio, and any character like him for that matter, unless otherwise specified. Also if The World is already summoned, there's a chance it could just wake Dio's ass up given The World is a sentient Stand (even if it aint obvious like Sex Pistols). Also why we assuming he'd even use that? Dude barely even used it in his own games, it's one of his least used spells. Quen, Axii and Somne are barely used in character unless against certain opponents or absolutely needed and honestly, thinking on it, I don't even think Geralt would use those, given he knows about The World, he doesn't know about Dio's weaknesses or the fact that thing's like Axii get negated if he inflicts enough damage to his foe, and Dio can definitely survive a bit of heavy damage (Actually Dio having Regenerationn above even the vamps in his series, that's applicable in a fight anywa, may open Geralt up to attack if he thinks Dio is dead or dying from a wound that actually isnt that much of an issue only for Dio to counter with time stop like he often does upon taking damage, plus Dio isnt weak to silver).
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I said I don't have to respond, why do you have to already write so much text on that.
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I'll write one last thing, if that 10-20 hit breaking Quen is even lore good, he would know that he has a punching time stopping ghost, and he knows what time stop is since he have seen it in the series which I already linked, why wouldn't he just mindhax him in this actual case when he has prep and knowledge.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,349
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He wants to be thorough. I don't see any problems with being thorough.
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Because I was merely explaining why you should respond. I already said I understand if you dont wanna, but I'm still gonna, at least for a bit longer anyway.
And the latter half isnt even related to you saying that, it was in reference to something completely different with the addition of a few other points.
And the latter half isnt even related to you saying that, it was in reference to something completely different with the addition of a few other points.
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>why wouldn't he just mindhax him in this actual case when he has prep and knowledge.
Given Geralt almost never uses it, is listed as an actual weakness of his in that he doesnt use it and he's honorable and doesnt use it unless absolutely needed, even against opponents he should. There's a few reasons why. Also the fact that Geralt has to kill Dio, and sufficient damage breaks the target free from the spell according to the profile. How is Geralt gonna mindhax Dio and kill him at the same time? He cant. To kill Dio would absolutely mean breaking the spell, and Dio can walk off said amount of damage needed to break it with zero issue. Which would gurantee a time stop in retaliation, and if Geralt is inthe middle of attacking Dio trying to kill, that leaves him kinda open.
Why does Geralt even have prior info and prep anyway, especially a full day, like one or the other I can see maybe but both? Like if the dude needs a whole day of prep while knowing his opponent's secret ability he literally murders his most loyal men over, that kinda tells you the match is probably a mismatch if that much compensation is needed.
Given Geralt almost never uses it, is listed as an actual weakness of his in that he doesnt use it and he's honorable and doesnt use it unless absolutely needed, even against opponents he should. There's a few reasons why. Also the fact that Geralt has to kill Dio, and sufficient damage breaks the target free from the spell according to the profile. How is Geralt gonna mindhax Dio and kill him at the same time? He cant. To kill Dio would absolutely mean breaking the spell, and Dio can walk off said amount of damage needed to break it with zero issue. Which would gurantee a time stop in retaliation, and if Geralt is inthe middle of attacking Dio trying to kill, that leaves him kinda open.
Why does Geralt even have prior info and prep anyway, especially a full day, like one or the other I can see maybe but both? Like if the dude needs a whole day of prep while knowing his opponent's secret ability he literally murders his most loyal men over, that kinda tells you the match is probably a mismatch if that much compensation is needed.
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So how will Geralt win if he can't go on the offense without the risk of getting timestopped? He is supposed to have a plan from prep. Will he try to kill Dio between the World cooldown or maybe stop his Regenerationn?
Dio only needs to attack Quen once before he starts plotting to lure Geralt away from it. It is presumptuous to assume that damage reflection is instantaneous even during timestop, and it is not like Dio will keep standing in front of it by the time timestop ends.
Dio only needs to attack Quen once before he starts plotting to lure Geralt away from it. It is presumptuous to assume that damage reflection is instantaneous even during timestop, and it is not like Dio will keep standing in front of it by the time timestop ends.
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
He/Him- 955
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"Uh, pretty sure that's a fallacy, that or you're wording your point wrong. If a Stand can selectively interact with an object, doesnt mean that a forcefield can stop them. You're drawing a conclusion from two unrelated pieces of information."
That isn't fallacious i explained the reasons right after this sentence, no need to make ten extra wall texts for just this little detail
"Yes, I did prove Stands can phase through basically whatever they want despite your initial contradictory claims. Yes, except here's the issue with that. Stands arent wraiths, they may seem similiar on paper but Stands can even phase through what would be the JoJo equilavent of wraiths. stands arent just life energy or spiritual, not even the spiritual, like ghosts and revenants can interact with Stands, with one major exception (But said exception isnt a ghost nor revenant, in fact it's made quite clear it's neither but rather an inescapable law, we to this day do not know what it is). Just because something like a Wraith can't phase through it doesnt mean something with such potent intangibility that not even things similar in nature like Ghosts, which are also capable of phasing, can stop a Stand. The only way this wouldnt be true is if Wraiths have shown to be untouchable by things like ghosts."
Can you prove that stands can phase through quen which as i said it's not a normal shield that you can block a normal attack and have shown to block even intangible attacks by beings that can phase through physical objects
Your Reasioning: Stands intagibility isn't the same as Ghosts intagibility
Why? Because apperantly stands are not spiritual and what then... What difference does it make both things intangible, both can phase through things at their will what makes them so different
"That line has been retconned (And then murdered and burned Post Part 5), that line was said when Stands were meant to be an evolved form of a type of Hamon, which is what Hamon is, life energy. (It's also why the Kanji for Stands early on is literally Ghostly Ripple/Hamon, it was meant to be the next step above Hamon but was quickly changed). Using an out of date line from the first debut of a Stand before the rules were established fully isnt exactly making a case for yourself."
Does it matter if it's retconned? (i actually doubt it's retconned) because it was just that, life energy
in part 3 and it was not only shown jotaro not being able to use star platinum after magician red covered his mouth which was depleting his life energy
It's also been a literal common knowledge by the fandom that it's life energy that powers stand users because i don't think narancia can user her stand while dead
"Good for the Witcher then, if we were using Hamon you'd have a point, or a Stand like Hermit Purple which is based on Hamon, but we aren't. Also Like JJBA too? You still going on about Stands being used for prolonged periods of time drain a user's energy when that has literally never been the case unless using a super specific special power like Gently Wheeps (And even then it doesnt drain stamina, only Stand Power, making the Stand temporarily a bit weaker or needing a cool down of a few seconds) but rather the opposite has been shown to be true, with Stands being active for increasingly long periods of time with no visible or even implied hinderance. Unless you're talking about the damage to a Stand reflects onto a user. Which isnt why that's a thing, false analogy, not a comparable example between two different sets of power. Damage reflects onto the user because Stands are a facet of the soul, and in JoJo, damage to the soul reflects onto the body as well, it's an evolution of that. Stands just have the added benefit of, unlike ordinary souls in JoJo like Reimi or Yoshiro, are immune to nearly everything in their verse except other Stands and things imbued with Stand energy, like Mista's gun."
Excuse me a second i might go off road for now, you said that stands are not spiritual
Then why do stands present the facet of the soul? and why does it go directly to the soul then?
i'm not gonna reply to the wall text because the mista's gun isn't the same type of stand as the world
"Ignoring the false equilavence and how that isnt the case at all, not how it works. Stands are intangible to ghosts and normal souls, which is the proper comparison, if the things The Witcher has is analogous with things that Stands cant be harmed by, the result would be the opposite of your conclusion. Quen has stopped things that are equilavent to ghosts, now if Stands were equal with ghosts you'd have a point but no, not even intangible souls can harm a Stand, only Stands within JoJo, can harm a Stand, not even youkai, revenants or ghouls (all of which exist in JoJo). Also I'm not even sure that's entirely true either, given Diver Down has phased into a Stand before and contrary to popular belief, his ability is actually storing attacks and energy into objects and releasing it at a later time and treating the objects he phases into as malleable like a liquid (hence the dive part)."
Excuse me? Isn't a stand the facet of the soul? and how can a soul hurt a stand? What the hell are you even saying mate?
"Just because you say it doesn't mean you're right. Witcher magic and Stands don't have the same source of creation, Hamon is technically closer to life force than Stands are.You think Dio would never be able to is moot as well, Dio's faster on the draw here, he can get time stop out, especially in character (given while High it's the very first thing he does, it's also the first thing he does when trying to kill an opponent, he doesnt even hint that he's stopping time if his opponent isnt already aware of it as well), faster than Geralt can get Quen out which looking through all the footage I've found, always has him doing a bit of a hand motion. Not that it would matter, dont know if you picked up on this but given I said so as much as 4 times now, The World being capable of phasing through Quen or not is a 50/50, there's not enough info either or. Also I'm not even sure that's 100% true, looking through footage and walkthroughs, pretty sure I've seen Wraiths clip through Quen or fly through it immediatly after attacking, which I can't tell if it's a glitch, it being a matter of which state the Wraith is in (Given they have two explicit forms, physical and non-corporal) or something else entirely. I'd appreciate it if you could possibly supply an example of Quen blocking a Wraith in it's non-corporal state as well as it simply moving through/past Geralt in that form."
There are so many things wrong with this
Firstly, you literally said that hamon is closer the life force than a stand is which not only contradicts what you said but also means stands are in fact connceted to the life force
and you previously said the world phasing through quen is 50/50 but now you're saying it's not the case because there isn't enough info
and what they're most likely using is the body quen which is a one to a five hit protector and not the sphere quen which protects against even noonwraiths
I have a video of sphere quen blocking a noonwraith but it's on the PS4 files
"Although I've been looking into Wraiths there seems to be a bit of discrepancy between being non-corporal and manifesting physically, because they have two clearly defined states. Also why does the Witcher Wiki explicitly say Quen can't block physical damage from things like punches (Even citing a source, Last Wishes)? I'm just gonna assume it's wrong though given from what I've researched it clearly does, but one thing I did notice though is that Quen can only take so many hits. While it protects against hits with little to no issue, it can only deflect so many hits, it isnt a what can break it but rather how many can it take till it breaks, which is like what? Ten distinct hits? I dont know why nobody has bothered to mention that Quen while it would protect Geralt from basically any damage given the tier, it only does so so many times before being needed to reapply or recharged, and that's kinda a huge flaw against someone who can hit it countless times within a time stop or stop time the moment it wears out but before it can be recharged or reapplied. I also want to point out, according to the profile."
There are many types of wraiths, ingmae you for some reason can damage them without any need of extra help (It doesn't apply to noonwraiths/nightwraiths for some weird reason)
Quen breaking at one to five hits a is a game mechanic
if you want you could fully upgrade quen and be level 100 and go to a low level golem and it would take countless hits for the golem to break the quen or you could be under level and go to a high level drowner and he'll break quen and kill you at the same time (Trued it)
It's a game mechanic
"As well as his standard tatic section. Which explains that Quen usually only comes out in character against opponents with aoe or long ranged magic/attacks.
There's a huge chance Geralt may not even use Quen, at least not till he thinks he either absolutely needs to or thinks it would be extremely beneficial but that's the problem, High Dio leads with his wincondition, time stop (And given they start within eyesight range, that's extremely dangerous), if Geralt opts to not even use his best chance at survival then that's a pretty huge issue outlined directly on the profile and is even considered his weakness. And do note, Geralt isnt aware Dio can stop time or he has a Stand, as far as Geralt is concerned he's fighting a homoerotic buff dude with a banana hammock, he may be cautious but he's not gonna assume the worst and definitely not a fisticuff time stopping invisible buff dude. Although I still stand by my point of most Stands possibly being able to phase anyway. But that's a completey moot point if Quen may not even come out till it's to late or Quen being only able to protect so many times in one go. "
Geralt has prior knowledge
"I don't know how you missed it, especially given you have been shown numerous examples by now but Dio doesn't need to shout The World,"
Of course you're right
"Except you're just assuming that's the case, yet what we see contradicts your claim. You can't say oh it's game mechanics without proving it actually is. We have no reason to assume it's game mechanics, is it gameplay balanicing? Yeah probably, but that doesn't invalidate it.
If Quen is hown to break after 10 or so hits in game, then it breaks after ten or so hits. The only way that wouldn't be the case is if there exists a statement that says Quen lasts forever or Quen can take a fuckton of seperate hits, that or it's shown to, whether that be in a cutscene, a comic or something else, to take more hits in succession without it getting reapplied, than it can in game. If no such things exist then by all accounts, whether you like it or not, is a limitation of the spell. Andthe things you linked is how it's potrayed in game too, if it looks the same in both the games and cutscens and acts the same as well from what we see? Why cherry pick and say it's draw back doesnt actually exist when literally nothing contradicts it or says or even hints otherwise from what you've shown.
Hell, I'm pretty sure some of the benefits don't even appear in cutscenes, feels like double standards to me. I'm still open to evidence that it's game mechanics, but simply saying it isnt because it'd be strong doesnt automatically mean it isnt true."
Quen can tank an attack from multiple drowners and not break but can get one shotted by a nekker if you're low level enough
"Nice try but SBA clearly dictates that it's always night for Dio, and any character like him for that matter, unless otherwise specified. Also if The World is already summoned, there's a chance it could just wake Dio's ass up given The World is a sentient Stand (even if it aint obvious like Sex Pistols). Also why we assuming he'd even use that? Dude barely even used it in his own games, it's one of his least used spells. Quen, Axii and Somne are barely used in character unless against certain opponents or absolutely needed and honestly, thinking on it, I don't even think Geralt would use those, given he knows about The World, he doesn't know about Dio's weaknesses or the fact that thing's like Axii get negated if he inflicts enough damage to his foe, and Dio can definitely survive a bit of heavy damage (Actually Dio having Regenerationn above even the vamps in his series, that's applicable in a fight anywa, may open Geralt up to attack if he thinks Dio is dead or dying from a wound that actually isnt that much of an issue only for Dio to counter with time stop like he often does upon taking damage, plus Dio isnt weak to silver)."
There isn't anything said about there being always night for dio you're literally making all this thing up, and no every stand is unique to their own user, comparing sex pistols to the world is really idiotic and literally everyone would agree on that note
That isn't fallacious i explained the reasons right after this sentence, no need to make ten extra wall texts for just this little detail
"Yes, I did prove Stands can phase through basically whatever they want despite your initial contradictory claims. Yes, except here's the issue with that. Stands arent wraiths, they may seem similiar on paper but Stands can even phase through what would be the JoJo equilavent of wraiths. stands arent just life energy or spiritual, not even the spiritual, like ghosts and revenants can interact with Stands, with one major exception (But said exception isnt a ghost nor revenant, in fact it's made quite clear it's neither but rather an inescapable law, we to this day do not know what it is). Just because something like a Wraith can't phase through it doesnt mean something with such potent intangibility that not even things similar in nature like Ghosts, which are also capable of phasing, can stop a Stand. The only way this wouldnt be true is if Wraiths have shown to be untouchable by things like ghosts."
Can you prove that stands can phase through quen which as i said it's not a normal shield that you can block a normal attack and have shown to block even intangible attacks by beings that can phase through physical objects
Your Reasioning: Stands intagibility isn't the same as Ghosts intagibility
Why? Because apperantly stands are not spiritual and what then... What difference does it make both things intangible, both can phase through things at their will what makes them so different
"That line has been retconned (And then murdered and burned Post Part 5), that line was said when Stands were meant to be an evolved form of a type of Hamon, which is what Hamon is, life energy. (It's also why the Kanji for Stands early on is literally Ghostly Ripple/Hamon, it was meant to be the next step above Hamon but was quickly changed). Using an out of date line from the first debut of a Stand before the rules were established fully isnt exactly making a case for yourself."
Does it matter if it's retconned? (i actually doubt it's retconned) because it was just that, life energy
in part 3 and it was not only shown jotaro not being able to use star platinum after magician red covered his mouth which was depleting his life energy
It's also been a literal common knowledge by the fandom that it's life energy that powers stand users because i don't think narancia can user her stand while dead
"Good for the Witcher then, if we were using Hamon you'd have a point, or a Stand like Hermit Purple which is based on Hamon, but we aren't. Also Like JJBA too? You still going on about Stands being used for prolonged periods of time drain a user's energy when that has literally never been the case unless using a super specific special power like Gently Wheeps (And even then it doesnt drain stamina, only Stand Power, making the Stand temporarily a bit weaker or needing a cool down of a few seconds) but rather the opposite has been shown to be true, with Stands being active for increasingly long periods of time with no visible or even implied hinderance. Unless you're talking about the damage to a Stand reflects onto a user. Which isnt why that's a thing, false analogy, not a comparable example between two different sets of power. Damage reflects onto the user because Stands are a facet of the soul, and in JoJo, damage to the soul reflects onto the body as well, it's an evolution of that. Stands just have the added benefit of, unlike ordinary souls in JoJo like Reimi or Yoshiro, are immune to nearly everything in their verse except other Stands and things imbued with Stand energy, like Mista's gun."
Excuse me a second i might go off road for now, you said that stands are not spiritual
Then why do stands present the facet of the soul? and why does it go directly to the soul then?
i'm not gonna reply to the wall text because the mista's gun isn't the same type of stand as the world
"Ignoring the false equilavence and how that isnt the case at all, not how it works. Stands are intangible to ghosts and normal souls, which is the proper comparison, if the things The Witcher has is analogous with things that Stands cant be harmed by, the result would be the opposite of your conclusion. Quen has stopped things that are equilavent to ghosts, now if Stands were equal with ghosts you'd have a point but no, not even intangible souls can harm a Stand, only Stands within JoJo, can harm a Stand, not even youkai, revenants or ghouls (all of which exist in JoJo). Also I'm not even sure that's entirely true either, given Diver Down has phased into a Stand before and contrary to popular belief, his ability is actually storing attacks and energy into objects and releasing it at a later time and treating the objects he phases into as malleable like a liquid (hence the dive part)."
Excuse me? Isn't a stand the facet of the soul? and how can a soul hurt a stand? What the hell are you even saying mate?
"Just because you say it doesn't mean you're right. Witcher magic and Stands don't have the same source of creation, Hamon is technically closer to life force than Stands are.You think Dio would never be able to is moot as well, Dio's faster on the draw here, he can get time stop out, especially in character (given while High it's the very first thing he does, it's also the first thing he does when trying to kill an opponent, he doesnt even hint that he's stopping time if his opponent isnt already aware of it as well), faster than Geralt can get Quen out which looking through all the footage I've found, always has him doing a bit of a hand motion. Not that it would matter, dont know if you picked up on this but given I said so as much as 4 times now, The World being capable of phasing through Quen or not is a 50/50, there's not enough info either or. Also I'm not even sure that's 100% true, looking through footage and walkthroughs, pretty sure I've seen Wraiths clip through Quen or fly through it immediatly after attacking, which I can't tell if it's a glitch, it being a matter of which state the Wraith is in (Given they have two explicit forms, physical and non-corporal) or something else entirely. I'd appreciate it if you could possibly supply an example of Quen blocking a Wraith in it's non-corporal state as well as it simply moving through/past Geralt in that form."
There are so many things wrong with this
Firstly, you literally said that hamon is closer the life force than a stand is which not only contradicts what you said but also means stands are in fact connceted to the life force
and you previously said the world phasing through quen is 50/50 but now you're saying it's not the case because there isn't enough info
and what they're most likely using is the body quen which is a one to a five hit protector and not the sphere quen which protects against even noonwraiths
I have a video of sphere quen blocking a noonwraith but it's on the PS4 files
"Although I've been looking into Wraiths there seems to be a bit of discrepancy between being non-corporal and manifesting physically, because they have two clearly defined states. Also why does the Witcher Wiki explicitly say Quen can't block physical damage from things like punches (Even citing a source, Last Wishes)? I'm just gonna assume it's wrong though given from what I've researched it clearly does, but one thing I did notice though is that Quen can only take so many hits. While it protects against hits with little to no issue, it can only deflect so many hits, it isnt a what can break it but rather how many can it take till it breaks, which is like what? Ten distinct hits? I dont know why nobody has bothered to mention that Quen while it would protect Geralt from basically any damage given the tier, it only does so so many times before being needed to reapply or recharged, and that's kinda a huge flaw against someone who can hit it countless times within a time stop or stop time the moment it wears out but before it can be recharged or reapplied. I also want to point out, according to the profile."
There are many types of wraiths, ingmae you for some reason can damage them without any need of extra help (It doesn't apply to noonwraiths/nightwraiths for some weird reason)
Quen breaking at one to five hits a is a game mechanic
if you want you could fully upgrade quen and be level 100 and go to a low level golem and it would take countless hits for the golem to break the quen or you could be under level and go to a high level drowner and he'll break quen and kill you at the same time (Trued it)
It's a game mechanic
"As well as his standard tatic section. Which explains that Quen usually only comes out in character against opponents with aoe or long ranged magic/attacks.
There's a huge chance Geralt may not even use Quen, at least not till he thinks he either absolutely needs to or thinks it would be extremely beneficial but that's the problem, High Dio leads with his wincondition, time stop (And given they start within eyesight range, that's extremely dangerous), if Geralt opts to not even use his best chance at survival then that's a pretty huge issue outlined directly on the profile and is even considered his weakness. And do note, Geralt isnt aware Dio can stop time or he has a Stand, as far as Geralt is concerned he's fighting a homoerotic buff dude with a banana hammock, he may be cautious but he's not gonna assume the worst and definitely not a fisticuff time stopping invisible buff dude. Although I still stand by my point of most Stands possibly being able to phase anyway. But that's a completey moot point if Quen may not even come out till it's to late or Quen being only able to protect so many times in one go. "
Geralt has prior knowledge
"I don't know how you missed it, especially given you have been shown numerous examples by now but Dio doesn't need to shout The World,"
Of course you're right
"Except you're just assuming that's the case, yet what we see contradicts your claim. You can't say oh it's game mechanics without proving it actually is. We have no reason to assume it's game mechanics, is it gameplay balanicing? Yeah probably, but that doesn't invalidate it.
If Quen is hown to break after 10 or so hits in game, then it breaks after ten or so hits. The only way that wouldn't be the case is if there exists a statement that says Quen lasts forever or Quen can take a fuckton of seperate hits, that or it's shown to, whether that be in a cutscene, a comic or something else, to take more hits in succession without it getting reapplied, than it can in game. If no such things exist then by all accounts, whether you like it or not, is a limitation of the spell. Andthe things you linked is how it's potrayed in game too, if it looks the same in both the games and cutscens and acts the same as well from what we see? Why cherry pick and say it's draw back doesnt actually exist when literally nothing contradicts it or says or even hints otherwise from what you've shown.
Hell, I'm pretty sure some of the benefits don't even appear in cutscenes, feels like double standards to me. I'm still open to evidence that it's game mechanics, but simply saying it isnt because it'd be strong doesnt automatically mean it isnt true."
Quen can tank an attack from multiple drowners and not break but can get one shotted by a nekker if you're low level enough
"Nice try but SBA clearly dictates that it's always night for Dio, and any character like him for that matter, unless otherwise specified. Also if The World is already summoned, there's a chance it could just wake Dio's ass up given The World is a sentient Stand (even if it aint obvious like Sex Pistols). Also why we assuming he'd even use that? Dude barely even used it in his own games, it's one of his least used spells. Quen, Axii and Somne are barely used in character unless against certain opponents or absolutely needed and honestly, thinking on it, I don't even think Geralt would use those, given he knows about The World, he doesn't know about Dio's weaknesses or the fact that thing's like Axii get negated if he inflicts enough damage to his foe, and Dio can definitely survive a bit of heavy damage (Actually Dio having Regenerationn above even the vamps in his series, that's applicable in a fight anywa, may open Geralt up to attack if he thinks Dio is dead or dying from a wound that actually isnt that much of an issue only for Dio to counter with time stop like he often does upon taking damage, plus Dio isnt weak to silver)."
There isn't anything said about there being always night for dio you're literally making all this thing up, and no every stand is unique to their own user, comparing sex pistols to the world is really idiotic and literally everyone would agree on that note
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
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>That isn't fallacious i explained the reasons right after this sentence, no need to make ten extra wall texts for just this little detail There's more than one type of fallacy, fallacious is the wrong word but you were making a fallacy, anyway you really gotta word your points together.
>Can you prove that stands can phase through quen which as i said it's not a normal shield that you can block a normal attack and have shown to block even intangible attacks by beings that can phase through physical objects
Yes but has Quen stopped something intangible even to intangibles? That's the question that you should be asking.
>Your Reasioning: Stands intagibility isn't the same as Ghosts intagibility
Not my reasoning you should probably read a bit closer.
>Why? Because apperantly stands are not spiritual and what then... What difference does it make both things intangible, both can phase through things at their will what makes them so different
Dude, reading comphrehension is imprtant, yet you clearly lack it. You're strawmanning hard. I didn;t say Stands weren't spiritual? Learn to read, what I did say those is that they're more than that. Yes Stand's intangibility and the intagibility of ghosts are different, Stands can overcome the intagibility of a ghost and rip them apart, but a ghost can not harm a Stand. Stands have better intagibility and phasing. It'd do you good to actually read one's arguments properly, honestly. Then again what difference does it make if both are invisible? Both ghosts and Stands are invisible so what's the difference? That was sarcam, the difference is scroll up to Sir Ovens post.
>Why? Because apperantly stands are not spiritual and what then... What difference does it make both things intangible, both can phase through things at their will what makes them so different
Because certain powers can have differing levels of potency? This shouldnt be difficult to understand.
>Does it matter if it's retconned? (i actually doubt it's retconned) because it was just that, life energy. in part 3 and it was not only shown jotaro not being able to use star platinum after magician red covered his mouth which was depleting his life energy . It's also been a literal common knowledge by the fandom that it's life energy that powers stand users because i don't think narancia can user her stand while dead
Uh, yes actually? That's what a retcon is, it's no longer canon, outdated information, doesn't apply. You can doubt it's a retcon but all that tells me is you haven't actually read all of it, otherwise you'd know it's been retconned for decades. Uh, yeah because maybe you missed this part but Stands at the start of Part 3 were meant to be an evolution of Hamo, you know the thing that stops if the opponent can no longer breath? It was changed so early that breathing is never said to effect Stands in any shape way or form again, even showing Jotaro himself using Star Platinum underwater for like a full minute or two, even using Star Platinum to speak and hold conversations on the sea floor, and that's one example of many. Or later on, after having holes put through him, or his neck nearly slit yet SP wasnt effected at all. Hell there's even things like Stand User's having punctured lungs and using their Stands just fine. It isn't life energy, you're confusing Life Energy with Stand power, which are distinct within JoJo. Hamon is life energy, Stands are a facet of the soul. Aso I hope to god you calling Narancia a she is a joke. And actually some Stands can be used after death, there's literal ghosts that have Stands. Hell Bruno in that same part is literally undead and uses his Stand all the time.
>Excuse me a second i might go off road for now, you said that stands are not spiritual . Then why do stands present the facet of the soul? and why does it go directly to the soul then? i'm not gonna reply to the wall text because the mista's gun isn't the same type of stand as the world
To quote myself stands arent just life energy or spiritual. I what I said, you're trying to debate a point I never made, hence why reading comprhension matters. I didn't say Stands werent spiritual ased, I said they aren't just spiritual, as in there's more to it. Also do you even understand what you're trying to debate? I didn't compare The World with Mista, I was listing ff the things that can harm a Stand why certaing things can, using Mista's Gun as an example as he imbues it with Stand Power. No shit it isn't the same type of Stand, are you incapable of strawmanning for one paragraph?
>Excuse me? Isn't a stand the facet of the soul? and how can a soul hurt a stand? What the hell are you even saying mate?
Yes, I never said otherwise, as said, read properly. A soul can't hurt a Stand, that's the thing. If you can't understand what I'm saying then that's a bit of tough luck, I explained myself, if you don't get it, at that point that's a case of your lack of understanding not my inability to explain.
>Firstly, you literally said that hamon is closer the life force than a stand is which not only contradicts what you said but also means stands are in fact connceted to the life force
Yes, Hamon is closer to life force than a Stand because Hamon is life energy, a Stand isn't, this really shouldnt be hard to grasp dude. It doesn't contradict anything I said, not onlybecause you simply didn't read what I said properly, which is entirely on you, not me, then proceeded to construct arguments around a nonexistant claim and point but you're drawing conclusions from things that aren't connected, how is me saying Hamon is more closely related to life force mean Stands are now apart of life force? It doesn't.
>and you previously said the world phasing through quen is 50/50 but now you're saying it's not the case because there isn't enough info
Read literally the first post this was brought up i. Here, I'll quote it for you.
Well yes, but as said The World may or may not be capable of simply phasing through it and attacking directly. Not enough information to say he can phase through it, but at the same time there's not enough information to say he cant.
>and what they're most likely using is the body quen which is a one to a five hit protector and not the sphere quen which protects against even noonwraiths You're probably right, but ultimately doesn't effect the conversation a whole lot. But I'll look it up.
>I have a video of sphere quen blocking a noonwraith but it's on the PS4 files
Cool but doesn't really effect my point.
>Quen can tank an attack from multiple drowners and not break but can get one shotted by a nekker if you're low level enough
Yes, which implies it's reliant on Geralt's strength. But in the end, no matter how strong he or Quen is, in every example no matter at what point in the game it is, it will break eventually after taking a bunch of blows yet shatter a lot sooner if the blows are powerful enough, but regardless of how many, it will break eventually. Given how many times The World can punch in a second, it could be a million blows and it's still something The World can reach.
>There isn't anything said about there being always night for dio you're literally making all this thing up, and no every stand is unique to their own user, comparing sex pistols to the world is really idiotic and literally everyone would agree on that note
To quote SBA. Time: The time and date are chosen in such a fashion that all characters are at their strongest. Paradoxes like it being night for one character, while being day for another are acceptable here. If extreme advantages are generated via this regulation to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
I'm not making anything up, I've just bothered to read the SBA and partaken in threads where this has been a thing.
Also no, not all Stands are unique to their User. THe D'Arby brothers have extremely similar Stands due to being related. Jonathan and Joseph have the exact same Stand. Gyro and Johnny have nearly the same exact Stand, just visually different. Literally two The Worlds and two KQ's exist. The World and Star Platinum are literally the same Stand just with a different appearance. Why do you keep making claims like it's fact yet be so wrong at the same time, especially saying all Stands are unique when talking about The World, it's the most NONUNIQUE STAND in JoJo. Also missed my point, I said The World is sentient like Sex Pistols, because he's an obvious case of a sentient Stand. Don't like it despite it not effecting my point? Then fine, The World is a sentient Stand like Weather Report then.
>Can you prove that stands can phase through quen which as i said it's not a normal shield that you can block a normal attack and have shown to block even intangible attacks by beings that can phase through physical objects
Yes but has Quen stopped something intangible even to intangibles? That's the question that you should be asking.
>Your Reasioning: Stands intagibility isn't the same as Ghosts intagibility
Not my reasoning you should probably read a bit closer.
>Why? Because apperantly stands are not spiritual and what then... What difference does it make both things intangible, both can phase through things at their will what makes them so different
Dude, reading comphrehension is imprtant, yet you clearly lack it. You're strawmanning hard. I didn;t say Stands weren't spiritual? Learn to read, what I did say those is that they're more than that. Yes Stand's intangibility and the intagibility of ghosts are different, Stands can overcome the intagibility of a ghost and rip them apart, but a ghost can not harm a Stand. Stands have better intagibility and phasing. It'd do you good to actually read one's arguments properly, honestly. Then again what difference does it make if both are invisible? Both ghosts and Stands are invisible so what's the difference? That was sarcam, the difference is scroll up to Sir Ovens post.
>Why? Because apperantly stands are not spiritual and what then... What difference does it make both things intangible, both can phase through things at their will what makes them so different
Because certain powers can have differing levels of potency? This shouldnt be difficult to understand.
>Does it matter if it's retconned? (i actually doubt it's retconned) because it was just that, life energy. in part 3 and it was not only shown jotaro not being able to use star platinum after magician red covered his mouth which was depleting his life energy . It's also been a literal common knowledge by the fandom that it's life energy that powers stand users because i don't think narancia can user her stand while dead
Uh, yes actually? That's what a retcon is, it's no longer canon, outdated information, doesn't apply. You can doubt it's a retcon but all that tells me is you haven't actually read all of it, otherwise you'd know it's been retconned for decades. Uh, yeah because maybe you missed this part but Stands at the start of Part 3 were meant to be an evolution of Hamo, you know the thing that stops if the opponent can no longer breath? It was changed so early that breathing is never said to effect Stands in any shape way or form again, even showing Jotaro himself using Star Platinum underwater for like a full minute or two, even using Star Platinum to speak and hold conversations on the sea floor, and that's one example of many. Or later on, after having holes put through him, or his neck nearly slit yet SP wasnt effected at all. Hell there's even things like Stand User's having punctured lungs and using their Stands just fine. It isn't life energy, you're confusing Life Energy with Stand power, which are distinct within JoJo. Hamon is life energy, Stands are a facet of the soul. Aso I hope to god you calling Narancia a she is a joke. And actually some Stands can be used after death, there's literal ghosts that have Stands. Hell Bruno in that same part is literally undead and uses his Stand all the time.
>Excuse me a second i might go off road for now, you said that stands are not spiritual . Then why do stands present the facet of the soul? and why does it go directly to the soul then? i'm not gonna reply to the wall text because the mista's gun isn't the same type of stand as the world
To quote myself stands arent just life energy or spiritual. I what I said, you're trying to debate a point I never made, hence why reading comprhension matters. I didn't say Stands werent spiritual ased, I said they aren't just spiritual, as in there's more to it. Also do you even understand what you're trying to debate? I didn't compare The World with Mista, I was listing ff the things that can harm a Stand why certaing things can, using Mista's Gun as an example as he imbues it with Stand Power. No shit it isn't the same type of Stand, are you incapable of strawmanning for one paragraph?
>Excuse me? Isn't a stand the facet of the soul? and how can a soul hurt a stand? What the hell are you even saying mate?
Yes, I never said otherwise, as said, read properly. A soul can't hurt a Stand, that's the thing. If you can't understand what I'm saying then that's a bit of tough luck, I explained myself, if you don't get it, at that point that's a case of your lack of understanding not my inability to explain.
>Firstly, you literally said that hamon is closer the life force than a stand is which not only contradicts what you said but also means stands are in fact connceted to the life force
Yes, Hamon is closer to life force than a Stand because Hamon is life energy, a Stand isn't, this really shouldnt be hard to grasp dude. It doesn't contradict anything I said, not onlybecause you simply didn't read what I said properly, which is entirely on you, not me, then proceeded to construct arguments around a nonexistant claim and point but you're drawing conclusions from things that aren't connected, how is me saying Hamon is more closely related to life force mean Stands are now apart of life force? It doesn't.
>and you previously said the world phasing through quen is 50/50 but now you're saying it's not the case because there isn't enough info
Read literally the first post this was brought up i. Here, I'll quote it for you.
Well yes, but as said The World may or may not be capable of simply phasing through it and attacking directly. Not enough information to say he can phase through it, but at the same time there's not enough information to say he cant.
>and what they're most likely using is the body quen which is a one to a five hit protector and not the sphere quen which protects against even noonwraiths You're probably right, but ultimately doesn't effect the conversation a whole lot. But I'll look it up.
>I have a video of sphere quen blocking a noonwraith but it's on the PS4 files
Cool but doesn't really effect my point.
>Quen can tank an attack from multiple drowners and not break but can get one shotted by a nekker if you're low level enough
Yes, which implies it's reliant on Geralt's strength. But in the end, no matter how strong he or Quen is, in every example no matter at what point in the game it is, it will break eventually after taking a bunch of blows yet shatter a lot sooner if the blows are powerful enough, but regardless of how many, it will break eventually. Given how many times The World can punch in a second, it could be a million blows and it's still something The World can reach.
>There isn't anything said about there being always night for dio you're literally making all this thing up, and no every stand is unique to their own user, comparing sex pistols to the world is really idiotic and literally everyone would agree on that note
To quote SBA. Time: The time and date are chosen in such a fashion that all characters are at their strongest. Paradoxes like it being night for one character, while being day for another are acceptable here. If extreme advantages are generated via this regulation to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.
I'm not making anything up, I've just bothered to read the SBA and partaken in threads where this has been a thing.
Also no, not all Stands are unique to their User. THe D'Arby brothers have extremely similar Stands due to being related. Jonathan and Joseph have the exact same Stand. Gyro and Johnny have nearly the same exact Stand, just visually different. Literally two The Worlds and two KQ's exist. The World and Star Platinum are literally the same Stand just with a different appearance. Why do you keep making claims like it's fact yet be so wrong at the same time, especially saying all Stands are unique when talking about The World, it's the most NONUNIQUE STAND in JoJo. Also missed my point, I said The World is sentient like Sex Pistols, because he's an obvious case of a sentient Stand. Don't like it despite it not effecting my point? Then fine, The World is a sentient Stand like Weather Report then.
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Here's Dio using time stop without saying The World, except in one instance where he says it simutaneously, somehow. There's probably more too but that's what I got from a quick skim of the arc. There's way more if we decide to throw in sources other than the manga as well but those aren't explicitly canon.
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SHINE KAKYOINSchnee One said:
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
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"Yes but has Quen stopped something intangible even to intangibles? That's the question that you should be asking."
That doesn't even make sense, if something is intangible it is intangible there isn't a level for this type of thing it's just called intangibility and you can phase through things and interact if it wants there isn't a set of how intangible something can be it's just intangible
"Not my reasoning you should probably read a bit closer."
Your reason states that stand have a different intangbility than ghosts, there isn't anyway else you can put it
"Dude, reading comphrehension is imprtant, yet you clearly lack it. You're strawmanning hard. I didn;t say Stands weren't spiritual? Learn to read, what I did say those is that they're more than that. Yes Stand's intangibility and the intagibility of ghosts are different, Stands can overcome the intagibility of a ghost and rip them apart, but a ghost can not harm a Stand. Stands have better intagibility and phasing. It'd do you good to actually read one's arguments properly, honestly. Then again what difference does it make if both are invisible? Both ghosts and Stands are invisible so what's the difference? That was sarcam, the difference is scroll up to Sir Ovens post."
Let me get this straight, you're saying that stands are still spiritual (even tho you never implied) but they're more than that because they are invisible to ghosts and ghosts cannot harm them while they can (That doesn't make much sense because how come a ghost wants to hurt something they cannot see)
And that's That's Intangibility Bypassing you absolute moron
It doesn't mean it's greater intangibility, that's literally the worst and wrong mindset towards thinking somethings intangibility is superior to another and can you even give me an link that shows stands hurting a ghost?
You literally needed to have common sense for this shit
"Uh, yes actually? That's what a retcon is, it's no longer canon, outdated information, doesn't apply. You can doubt it's a retcon but all that tells me is you haven't actually read all of it, otherwise you'd know it's been retconned for decades. Uh, yeah because maybe you missed this part but Stands at the start of Part 3 were meant to be an evolution of Hamo, you know the thing that stops if the opponent can no longer breath? It was changed so early that breathing is never said to effect Stands in any shape way or form again, even showing Jotaro himself using Star Platinum underwater for like a full minute or two, even using Star Platinum to speak and hold conversations on the sea floor, and that's one example of many. Or later on, after having holes put through him, or his neck nearly slit yet SP wasnt effected at all. Hell there's even things like Stand User's having punctured lungs and using their Stands just fine. It isn't life energy, you're confusing Life Energy with Stand power, which are distinct within JoJo. Hamon is life energy, Stands are a facet of the soul. Aso I hope to god you calling Narancia a she is a joke. And actually some Stands can be used after death, there's literal ghosts that have Stands. Hell Bruno in that same part is literally undead and uses his Stand all the time."
So wait, you're trying to say that in every part everything gets retconned all the time like how Narciso changes gender or Kakyoin secret ability to apparently be able to cut people by just or how his stands legs changed, etc.
So yeah i realized what you're trying to ******* do, you're trying to play me like a fiddle to scale something some stands did in later parts which were universially shared between stands because of some bullshit retcoon and compare them to the 3rd part which still didn't have the idea of the thing
"To quote myself stands arent just life energy or spiritual. I what I said, you're trying to debate a point I never made, hence why reading comprhension matters. I didn't say Stands werent spiritual ased, I said they aren't just spiritual, as in there's more to it. Also do you even understand what you're trying to debate? I didn't compare The World with Mista, I was listing ff the things that can harm a Stand why certaing things can, using Mista's Gun as an example as he imbues it with Stand Power. No shit it isn't the same type of Stand, are you incapable of strawmanning for one paragraph?"
Why are you telling me this then?
"Yes, Hamon is closer to life force than a Stand because Hamon is life energy, a Stand isn't, this really shouldnt be hard to grasp dude. It doesn't contradict anything I said, not onlybecause you simply didn't read what I said properly, which is entirely on you, not me, then proceeded to construct arguments around a nonexistant claim and point but you're drawing conclusions from things that aren't connected, how is me saying Hamon is more closely related to life force mean Stands are now apart of life force? It doesn't."
Could've just said that stand power isn't life energy instead of saying that hamon is closer than stands
"Yes, which implies it's reliant on Geralt's strength. But in the end, no matter how strong he or Quen is, in every example no matter at what point in the game it is, it will break eventually after taking a bunch of blows yet shatter a lot sooner if the blows are powerful enough, but regardless of how many, it will break eventually. Given how many times The World can punch in a second, it could be a million blows and it's still something The World can reach."
No it doesn't rely geralt's strength it relies on geralts stamina which is nearly inexhaustible and yes and no
It will eventually break but it won't by punching it because it reflect the damage and geralt can instantly make a new one
"I'm not making anything up, I've just bothered to read the SBA and partaken in threads where this has been a thing."
Ignored my point, is there anything said about them in this thread because it isn't a rule
"Also no, not all Stands are unique to their User. THe D'Arby brothers have extremely similar Stands due to being related. Jonathan and Joseph have the exact same Stand. Gyro and Johnny have nearly the same exact Stand, just visually different. Literally two The Worlds and two KQ's exist. The World and Star Platinum are literally the same Stand just with a different appearance. Why do you keep making claims like it's fact yet be so wrong at the same time, especially saying all Stands are unique when talking about The World, it's the most NONUNIQUE STAND in JoJo. Also missed my point, I said he World is sentient like Sex Pistols, because he's an obvious case of a sentient Stand. Don't like it despite it not effecting my poin? Then fine, The World is a sentient Stand like Weather Report then."
Of course, Jotaro has the same stand as Highway to Hell
"Here's Dio using time stop without saying The World, except in one instance where he says it simutaneously, somehow. There's probably more too but that's what I got from a quick skim of the arc. There's way more if we decide to throw in sources other than the manga as well but those aren't explicitly canon."
Some of that was just for show off and and most of them is still dio yelling za warudo
That doesn't even make sense, if something is intangible it is intangible there isn't a level for this type of thing it's just called intangibility and you can phase through things and interact if it wants there isn't a set of how intangible something can be it's just intangible
"Not my reasoning you should probably read a bit closer."
Your reason states that stand have a different intangbility than ghosts, there isn't anyway else you can put it
"Dude, reading comphrehension is imprtant, yet you clearly lack it. You're strawmanning hard. I didn;t say Stands weren't spiritual? Learn to read, what I did say those is that they're more than that. Yes Stand's intangibility and the intagibility of ghosts are different, Stands can overcome the intagibility of a ghost and rip them apart, but a ghost can not harm a Stand. Stands have better intagibility and phasing. It'd do you good to actually read one's arguments properly, honestly. Then again what difference does it make if both are invisible? Both ghosts and Stands are invisible so what's the difference? That was sarcam, the difference is scroll up to Sir Ovens post."
Let me get this straight, you're saying that stands are still spiritual (even tho you never implied) but they're more than that because they are invisible to ghosts and ghosts cannot harm them while they can (That doesn't make much sense because how come a ghost wants to hurt something they cannot see)
And that's That's Intangibility Bypassing you absolute moron
It doesn't mean it's greater intangibility, that's literally the worst and wrong mindset towards thinking somethings intangibility is superior to another and can you even give me an link that shows stands hurting a ghost?
You literally needed to have common sense for this shit
"Uh, yes actually? That's what a retcon is, it's no longer canon, outdated information, doesn't apply. You can doubt it's a retcon but all that tells me is you haven't actually read all of it, otherwise you'd know it's been retconned for decades. Uh, yeah because maybe you missed this part but Stands at the start of Part 3 were meant to be an evolution of Hamo, you know the thing that stops if the opponent can no longer breath? It was changed so early that breathing is never said to effect Stands in any shape way or form again, even showing Jotaro himself using Star Platinum underwater for like a full minute or two, even using Star Platinum to speak and hold conversations on the sea floor, and that's one example of many. Or later on, after having holes put through him, or his neck nearly slit yet SP wasnt effected at all. Hell there's even things like Stand User's having punctured lungs and using their Stands just fine. It isn't life energy, you're confusing Life Energy with Stand power, which are distinct within JoJo. Hamon is life energy, Stands are a facet of the soul. Aso I hope to god you calling Narancia a she is a joke. And actually some Stands can be used after death, there's literal ghosts that have Stands. Hell Bruno in that same part is literally undead and uses his Stand all the time."
So wait, you're trying to say that in every part everything gets retconned all the time like how Narciso changes gender or Kakyoin secret ability to apparently be able to cut people by just or how his stands legs changed, etc.
So yeah i realized what you're trying to ******* do, you're trying to play me like a fiddle to scale something some stands did in later parts which were universially shared between stands because of some bullshit retcoon and compare them to the 3rd part which still didn't have the idea of the thing
"To quote myself stands arent just life energy or spiritual. I what I said, you're trying to debate a point I never made, hence why reading comprhension matters. I didn't say Stands werent spiritual ased, I said they aren't just spiritual, as in there's more to it. Also do you even understand what you're trying to debate? I didn't compare The World with Mista, I was listing ff the things that can harm a Stand why certaing things can, using Mista's Gun as an example as he imbues it with Stand Power. No shit it isn't the same type of Stand, are you incapable of strawmanning for one paragraph?"
Why are you telling me this then?
"Yes, Hamon is closer to life force than a Stand because Hamon is life energy, a Stand isn't, this really shouldnt be hard to grasp dude. It doesn't contradict anything I said, not onlybecause you simply didn't read what I said properly, which is entirely on you, not me, then proceeded to construct arguments around a nonexistant claim and point but you're drawing conclusions from things that aren't connected, how is me saying Hamon is more closely related to life force mean Stands are now apart of life force? It doesn't."
Could've just said that stand power isn't life energy instead of saying that hamon is closer than stands
"Yes, which implies it's reliant on Geralt's strength. But in the end, no matter how strong he or Quen is, in every example no matter at what point in the game it is, it will break eventually after taking a bunch of blows yet shatter a lot sooner if the blows are powerful enough, but regardless of how many, it will break eventually. Given how many times The World can punch in a second, it could be a million blows and it's still something The World can reach."
No it doesn't rely geralt's strength it relies on geralts stamina which is nearly inexhaustible and yes and no
It will eventually break but it won't by punching it because it reflect the damage and geralt can instantly make a new one
"I'm not making anything up, I've just bothered to read the SBA and partaken in threads where this has been a thing."
Ignored my point, is there anything said about them in this thread because it isn't a rule
"Also no, not all Stands are unique to their User. THe D'Arby brothers have extremely similar Stands due to being related. Jonathan and Joseph have the exact same Stand. Gyro and Johnny have nearly the same exact Stand, just visually different. Literally two The Worlds and two KQ's exist. The World and Star Platinum are literally the same Stand just with a different appearance. Why do you keep making claims like it's fact yet be so wrong at the same time, especially saying all Stands are unique when talking about The World, it's the most NONUNIQUE STAND in JoJo. Also missed my point, I said he World is sentient like Sex Pistols, because he's an obvious case of a sentient Stand. Don't like it despite it not effecting my poin? Then fine, The World is a sentient Stand like Weather Report then."
Of course, Jotaro has the same stand as Highway to Hell
"Here's Dio using time stop without saying The World, except in one instance where he says it simutaneously, somehow. There's probably more too but that's what I got from a quick skim of the arc. There's way more if we decide to throw in sources other than the manga as well but those aren't explicitly canon."
Some of that was just for show off and and most of them is still dio yelling za warudo
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How does geralt bypass dios regen
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
He/Him- 955
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Thebannanaworkshop said:
Igni
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Okay
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This seems to be incon
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>That doesn't even make sense, if something is intangible it is intangible there isn't a level for this type of thing it's just called intangibility and you can phase through things and interact if it wants there isn't a set of how intangible something can be it's just intangible
It doesn't have to make sense. That's how it is. Stands have better intagibility than standard ghosts and the like, don't like it? Take it up with the author. Then again I'm honestly surprised you find that doesn't make sense given how many characters on this wiki have insane levels of the most unassuming powers.
>Your reason states that stand have a different intangbility than ghosts, there isn't anyway else you can put it
My reasoning states they have better intangibility. Stands are intangible even to non-corporals and things that can interact with non-corporals. I'm going to repeat what I said again, this really isn't this hard to grasp.
>Let me get this straight, you're saying that stands are still spiritual (even tho you never implied) but they're more than that because they are invisible to ghosts and ghosts cannot harm them while they can (That doesn't make much sense because how come a ghost wants to hurt something they cannot see)
I never implied? I outright explicitly said so, I even quoted myself saying so in the very post you said i didn't, once again, reading comphrehension. Yes, Stands can not be seen nor harmed by a normal ghost vagabound, soul, etc yet a Stand is capable of seeing them and even destroying them in most cases. What does a ghost needing to see it have to do with it being able to or not being able to harm a Stand? Also that isn't even entirely true, Stand User's that are ghosts exist anyway.
>And that's That's Intangibility Bypassing you absolute moron
So we're throwing insults now? Yes, it is intangibility bypasing, because Stands have the power to interact with the supernatural, yet the supernatural (with one exception) doesn't have the ability to interact with Stands.
>It doesn't mean it's greater intangibility, that's literally the worst and wrong mindset towards thinking somethings intangibility is superior to another and can you even give me an link that shows stands hurting a ghost?
No, that's literaly what it means, if a noncorporal cant't **** with a Stand and it's like they arent even there, that's a greater intangibility. Here, I picked 3 examples, a Stand physically interacting with a soul as well as the Stand Arrow killing the soul, a Stand ability harming a ghost and the same ability but showing it's aftereffect. That's the last album I'm making, getting sick of gathering scans especially when this shit is on every profile just about.
>You literally needed to have common sense for this shit
Hello kettle.
>So wait, you're trying to say that in every part everything gets retconned all the time like how Narciso changes gender or Kakyoin secret ability to apparently be able to cut people by just or how his stands legs changed, etc.
Except Annasui's gender change while he initially was intended to be a female, it was quickly shot down for editorial reasons, as such instead of just ignoring it, it's alluded to in the follwing chapters, with F.F questioning if Annasui was even a dude (Due to previous encounters) and explaining it away with the implications that Annasui is capable of changing his body structure and biology, which is how he gets from the men's ward to the women's ward, he disguises himself as a women, which is why, in universe, he initially appeard as a female. And Kakyoin never had that power, holy shit that's annoying, he never could do shit like that, all it was was him sending out Hierophant Green's tendril to attack Jotaro's leg, the painting was just for dramatic effect, same with the puppet he carried around at the start to make a point that HG can puppet bodies. Also yes, designs change all the time, that's not a retcon, that's called not having a finalized design or art style shift, like how 90s Jotaro was buff as **** but modern Jotaro isn't in the slightest.
>So yeah i realized what you're trying to ******* do, you're trying to play me like a fiddle to scale something some stands did in later parts which were universially shared between stands because of some bullshit retcoon and compare them to the 3rd part which still didn't have the idea of the thing
I mean, you're wrong? I'm trying to tell you that not only was it retconned, but I also explained why it was like that in the first few chapters of Part 3, Stands were originally intended to be an evolution of Hamon. Not only that but I gave you multiple examples of it being proven false. And yes. things Stands do in later parts back scale to previous Stands, ignoring the fact said things apply to Stands as a whole, not just a select few. you do know that Part 3 Stands appear in later parts right? Star Platinum is in Parts 3, 4, 6. Chariot is in 3,5. The World is in 3, 7. Killer Queen is in 4, 8. So yeah, even ignoring the fact things apply to Stands from earlier parts (and in some cases earlier Stands are even used as an example) but the fact earlier Stands appear in later parts as well invalidates your claim. And yes, that idea wan't thought up at the start of Part 3, but it was later changed and kept that way to this very day, that's what makes it a retco. That or Abdul is full of shit, take your pick. Either way, don't like it? Not my issue, take it up with the author for changing shit more often than not, although really, it's been ike this for atleast 25 years.
>Why are you telling me this then?
Because it was relevant at the time but you somehow misintepreted one thing I said, proceeded to make a argument about a point I didnt actually make and now the info that was relevant then has been swept under the rug due to it derailing.
>It will eventually break but it won't by punching it because it reflect the damage and geralt can instantly make a new one
Yeah I have issues wih that, in game, no matter if it's from the weakest or strongest enemy, Quen will beak even if it's from a few to a few hundred blows. This matters because The World can punch more than just a few dozen times within one time stop, hell one second of casual puching is thousands at the absolute minimum. And Dio can break things within his time stop. Actually it's for that very reason, the fact he breaks things and deals damage in the moment within time stop, is why damage stacking in time stop isnt a thing for JoJo any longer I guess.
>Ignored my point, is there anything said about them in this thread because it isn't a rule
But, it is literally a rule. Standard Battle Assumptions. It's the default rule, it's only different unless specified by OP, if no specifications are made then that's the default state. I didn't ignore your point, your point is wrong because it is a rule and it applies here.
>Of course, Jotaro has the same stand as Highway to Hell
No but he has the same Stand as The World and Diego. And Gyro and Johnny have the same Stand technically (same power), Or Diego and Dr. Fern, or the D'Arby Brothers (Although Terence is more skilled with it), or Jonathan and Joseph, or the 11 men, etc. And that's not even mentioning the mess that is JJL Kira, who is funky as ****. My point is the yeah some Stands are unique, but that definitely isnt the case with all Stands, you saying all Stands are unique is a lie, it's wrong, and even then, there's classifications of Stands and Stands within that class share their base attributes have rules.
The classes are.
Power Types (Star Platinum, King Crimson, Purple Haze, Made in Heave, D4C, etc)
Long Range (HG, Echoes)
Automatic (SHA, Highway Star, Doobie Wah).
Bound (Strength, WOF, Oh Lonesome Me).
And the final category is those that dont fit anywhere, Stands that breaks rules like Requiem or B.I.G. Stands within a certai category all share traits, advantages and weaknesses (Although Power and Long Range tend to overlap, difference being long range tend to be weaker but can move further, automatic has the same as the above but isnt manually commanded but instead can function automatically but tend to be ******* stupid and exploitable).
Bound is where a bunch of rules are kinda broken like being corporal.
>Some of that was just for show off and and most of them is still dio yelling za warudo
Out of all those examples, only two had him say the world, and none were before stopping time. One was after. And showing off? Not quite showing off, some where like against the senator or Pol (although that was more a tatic to try and lure Pol over tos his side as he wanted to make use of Pol as his agent), some wheren't though, such as countering Pol, killing Joseph, killing the cops and taking control of one to scout if Jotaro is dead, killing Nukesaku, cutting Joseph to prevent his escape, etc. Either way, over half of Dio's time stops within the manga had no incantation. And the times there was any, we know why there was some (and even then I'm pretty sure there's like two more where he says the world, but only after time itself actually stops moving first). Actually pretty sure there is a few more earlier in the part as well, I could probably throw those into the album. Either way, no most aren't him yelling it, in fact over half aren't and it's made even worse when the anime changes scenes to where he says it when he canonically does not, like when he kills Joseph, the anime has him yell it but in the manga he did not.
Either way, I'm done for, getting late, idk if ill be checking back tonight, maybe morning if I dont.
It doesn't have to make sense. That's how it is. Stands have better intagibility than standard ghosts and the like, don't like it? Take it up with the author. Then again I'm honestly surprised you find that doesn't make sense given how many characters on this wiki have insane levels of the most unassuming powers.
>Your reason states that stand have a different intangbility than ghosts, there isn't anyway else you can put it
My reasoning states they have better intangibility. Stands are intangible even to non-corporals and things that can interact with non-corporals. I'm going to repeat what I said again, this really isn't this hard to grasp.
>Let me get this straight, you're saying that stands are still spiritual (even tho you never implied) but they're more than that because they are invisible to ghosts and ghosts cannot harm them while they can (That doesn't make much sense because how come a ghost wants to hurt something they cannot see)
I never implied? I outright explicitly said so, I even quoted myself saying so in the very post you said i didn't, once again, reading comphrehension. Yes, Stands can not be seen nor harmed by a normal ghost vagabound, soul, etc yet a Stand is capable of seeing them and even destroying them in most cases. What does a ghost needing to see it have to do with it being able to or not being able to harm a Stand? Also that isn't even entirely true, Stand User's that are ghosts exist anyway.
>And that's That's Intangibility Bypassing you absolute moron
So we're throwing insults now? Yes, it is intangibility bypasing, because Stands have the power to interact with the supernatural, yet the supernatural (with one exception) doesn't have the ability to interact with Stands.
>It doesn't mean it's greater intangibility, that's literally the worst and wrong mindset towards thinking somethings intangibility is superior to another and can you even give me an link that shows stands hurting a ghost?
No, that's literaly what it means, if a noncorporal cant't **** with a Stand and it's like they arent even there, that's a greater intangibility. Here, I picked 3 examples, a Stand physically interacting with a soul as well as the Stand Arrow killing the soul, a Stand ability harming a ghost and the same ability but showing it's aftereffect. That's the last album I'm making, getting sick of gathering scans especially when this shit is on every profile just about.
>You literally needed to have common sense for this shit
Hello kettle.
>So wait, you're trying to say that in every part everything gets retconned all the time like how Narciso changes gender or Kakyoin secret ability to apparently be able to cut people by just or how his stands legs changed, etc.
Except Annasui's gender change while he initially was intended to be a female, it was quickly shot down for editorial reasons, as such instead of just ignoring it, it's alluded to in the follwing chapters, with F.F questioning if Annasui was even a dude (Due to previous encounters) and explaining it away with the implications that Annasui is capable of changing his body structure and biology, which is how he gets from the men's ward to the women's ward, he disguises himself as a women, which is why, in universe, he initially appeard as a female. And Kakyoin never had that power, holy shit that's annoying, he never could do shit like that, all it was was him sending out Hierophant Green's tendril to attack Jotaro's leg, the painting was just for dramatic effect, same with the puppet he carried around at the start to make a point that HG can puppet bodies. Also yes, designs change all the time, that's not a retcon, that's called not having a finalized design or art style shift, like how 90s Jotaro was buff as **** but modern Jotaro isn't in the slightest.
>So yeah i realized what you're trying to ******* do, you're trying to play me like a fiddle to scale something some stands did in later parts which were universially shared between stands because of some bullshit retcoon and compare them to the 3rd part which still didn't have the idea of the thing
I mean, you're wrong? I'm trying to tell you that not only was it retconned, but I also explained why it was like that in the first few chapters of Part 3, Stands were originally intended to be an evolution of Hamon. Not only that but I gave you multiple examples of it being proven false. And yes. things Stands do in later parts back scale to previous Stands, ignoring the fact said things apply to Stands as a whole, not just a select few. you do know that Part 3 Stands appear in later parts right? Star Platinum is in Parts 3, 4, 6. Chariot is in 3,5. The World is in 3, 7. Killer Queen is in 4, 8. So yeah, even ignoring the fact things apply to Stands from earlier parts (and in some cases earlier Stands are even used as an example) but the fact earlier Stands appear in later parts as well invalidates your claim. And yes, that idea wan't thought up at the start of Part 3, but it was later changed and kept that way to this very day, that's what makes it a retco. That or Abdul is full of shit, take your pick. Either way, don't like it? Not my issue, take it up with the author for changing shit more often than not, although really, it's been ike this for atleast 25 years.
>Why are you telling me this then?
Because it was relevant at the time but you somehow misintepreted one thing I said, proceeded to make a argument about a point I didnt actually make and now the info that was relevant then has been swept under the rug due to it derailing.
>It will eventually break but it won't by punching it because it reflect the damage and geralt can instantly make a new one
Yeah I have issues wih that, in game, no matter if it's from the weakest or strongest enemy, Quen will beak even if it's from a few to a few hundred blows. This matters because The World can punch more than just a few dozen times within one time stop, hell one second of casual puching is thousands at the absolute minimum. And Dio can break things within his time stop. Actually it's for that very reason, the fact he breaks things and deals damage in the moment within time stop, is why damage stacking in time stop isnt a thing for JoJo any longer I guess.
>Ignored my point, is there anything said about them in this thread because it isn't a rule
But, it is literally a rule. Standard Battle Assumptions. It's the default rule, it's only different unless specified by OP, if no specifications are made then that's the default state. I didn't ignore your point, your point is wrong because it is a rule and it applies here.
>Of course, Jotaro has the same stand as Highway to Hell
No but he has the same Stand as The World and Diego. And Gyro and Johnny have the same Stand technically (same power), Or Diego and Dr. Fern, or the D'Arby Brothers (Although Terence is more skilled with it), or Jonathan and Joseph, or the 11 men, etc. And that's not even mentioning the mess that is JJL Kira, who is funky as ****. My point is the yeah some Stands are unique, but that definitely isnt the case with all Stands, you saying all Stands are unique is a lie, it's wrong, and even then, there's classifications of Stands and Stands within that class share their base attributes have rules.
The classes are.
Power Types (Star Platinum, King Crimson, Purple Haze, Made in Heave, D4C, etc)
Long Range (HG, Echoes)
Automatic (SHA, Highway Star, Doobie Wah).
Bound (Strength, WOF, Oh Lonesome Me).
And the final category is those that dont fit anywhere, Stands that breaks rules like Requiem or B.I.G. Stands within a certai category all share traits, advantages and weaknesses (Although Power and Long Range tend to overlap, difference being long range tend to be weaker but can move further, automatic has the same as the above but isnt manually commanded but instead can function automatically but tend to be ******* stupid and exploitable).
Bound is where a bunch of rules are kinda broken like being corporal.
>Some of that was just for show off and and most of them is still dio yelling za warudo
Out of all those examples, only two had him say the world, and none were before stopping time. One was after. And showing off? Not quite showing off, some where like against the senator or Pol (although that was more a tatic to try and lure Pol over tos his side as he wanted to make use of Pol as his agent), some wheren't though, such as countering Pol, killing Joseph, killing the cops and taking control of one to scout if Jotaro is dead, killing Nukesaku, cutting Joseph to prevent his escape, etc. Either way, over half of Dio's time stops within the manga had no incantation. And the times there was any, we know why there was some (and even then I'm pretty sure there's like two more where he says the world, but only after time itself actually stops moving first). Actually pretty sure there is a few more earlier in the part as well, I could probably throw those into the album. Either way, no most aren't him yelling it, in fact over half aren't and it's made even worse when the anime changes scenes to where he says it when he canonically does not, like when he kills Joseph, the anime has him yell it but in the manga he did not.
Either way, I'm done for, getting late, idk if ill be checking back tonight, maybe morning if I dont.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,349
- 9,022
Yeah, I'm siding with Chariot here.
- 15,654
- 13,163
You know Dio can just like, dodge it right? He can stop time (And it gets longer each time he uses it). Also putting your hand in Dio's face is a good way to lose that hand. And fyi, if that's the sun spell, that spell from what I read isnt actual sunlight, it's basically a flashbang with a fancy name and Dio is only weak to concentrated UV light (And he seemingly has grown a bit adept against anything but super high amounts, he shrugged off an Overdrive from Joseph in Part 3), not light as a whole.ThaTSayMarine said:Thebannanaworkshop said:
Igni
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 21,349
- 9,022
No, Igni is the Fire Blast.
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
He/Him- 955
- 229
"It doesn't have to make sense. That's how it is. Stands have better intagibility than standard ghosts and the like, don't like it? Take it up with the author. Then again I'm honestly surprised you find that doesn't make sense given how many characters on this wiki have insane levels of the most unassuming powers."
It isn't better intangibility, i repeat it doesn't matter
it's soul ******* manipulation that is only managed to be done by a few stands
"My reasoning states they have better intangibility. Stands are intangible even to non-corporals and things that can interact with non-corporals. I'm gping to repeat what I saig again, this really isn't this hard to grasp. "
And that doesn't make sense, it's not better intangibility it's intanbility bypassing
"I never implied? I outright explicitly said so, I even quoted myself saying so i the very post you said i didn't, once again, reading comphrehension. Yes, Stands can not be seen nor harmed by a normal ghost vagabound, soul, etc yet a Stand is capable of seeing them and even destroying them in most cases. What does a ghost needing to see it have to do with it being able to or not being able to harm a Stand? Also that isn't even entirely true, Stand User's that are ghosts exist anyway."
Oh i'm sorry i might've misread it due to how much writting because in the reply below i gave you a reason why
"No, that's literaly what it means, if a noncorporal cant't **** with a Stand and it's like they arent even there, that's a greater intangibility. Here, I picked 3 examples, a Stand physically interacting with a soul as well as the Stand Arrow killing the soul, a Stand ability harming a ghost and the same ability but showing it's aftereffect. That's the last album I'm making, getting sick of gathering scans especially when this shit is on every profile just about."
You literally just went 360 with your arugement
Do you think i don't read JJBA do you? because that ability is only reserved to killer queen and black sabboth and here's the thing when black sabboth tires to take the soul of giorno out he instead takes his stand out which tells you a lot
In general, most stands users aren't even born with it and those who do have inherit it by their forefathers due to the meteor and it essentailly makes your soul a fighting stand or essentailly the life force or soul
"Except Annasui's gender change while he initially was intened to be a female, it was quickly shot down for editorial reasons, as such instead of just ignoring it, it's alluded to in the follwing chapters, with F.F questioning if Annasui was even a dude (Due to previous encounters) and explaining it away with the implications that Annasui is capable of changing his body structure and biology, which is how he gets from the men's ward to the women's ward, he disguises himself as a women, which is why, in universe, he initially appeard as a female. And Kakyoin never had that power, holy shit that's annoying, he never could do shit like that, all it was was him sending out Hierophant Green's tendril to attack Jotaro's leg, the painting was just for dramatic effect, same with the puppet he carried around at the start to make a point that HG can puppet bodies. Also yes, designs change all the time, that's not a retcon, that's called not having a finalized design or art style shift, like how 90s Jotaro was buff as **** but modern Jotaro isn't in the slightest."
You just red herring out of my point
My point was that you said that things in JJ BA retconned a lot and you were using things that still haven't even happened in part 3 as a justification that for some reason the world can go through quen because some stand with the ability to manipulate souls can too
**** no mate
Because it was relevant at the time but you somehow misintepreted one thing I said, proceeded to make a argument about a point I didnt actually make and now the info that was relevant then has been swept under the rug due to it derailing.
Well it's really easy to misinterpreted things when you write down 20 words per seconds and probably write something you didn't intend too
Yeah I have issues wih that, in game, no matter if it's from the weakest or strongest enemy, Quen will beak even if it's from a few to a few hundred blows. This matters because The World can punch more than just a few dozen times within one time stop, hell one second of casual puching is thousands at the absolute minimum. And Dio can break things within his time stop. Actually it's for that very reason, the fact he breaks things and deals damage in the moment within time stop, is why damage stacking in time stop isnt a thing for JoJo any longer I guess.
That's a game mechanic and damage stacking isn't thing because you can't expect for steely dan to have 7-B durability because he survived a rush down of star platinum
But, it is literally a rule. Standard Battle Assumptions. It's the default rule, it's only different unless specified by OP, if no specifications are made then that's the default state. I didn't ignore your point, your point is wrong because it is a rule and it applies here.
It's not in the OP's Post and that doesn't apply
No but he has the same Stand as The World and Diego. And Gyro and Johnny have the same Stand technically (same power), Or Diego and Dr. Fern, or the D'Arby Brothers (Although Terence is more skilled with it), or Jonathan and Joseph, or the 11 men, etc. And that's not even mentioning the mess that is JJL Kira, who is funky as ****. My point is the yeah some Stands are unique, but that definitely isnt the case with all Stands, you saying all Stands are unique is a lie, it's wrong, and even then, there's classifications of Stands and Stands within that class share their base attributes have rules.
The classes are.
Power Types (Star Platinum, King Crimson, Purple Haze, Made in Heave, D4C, etc)
Long Range (HG, Echoes)
Automatic (SHA, Highway Star, Doobie Wah).
Bound (Strength, WOF, Oh Lonesome Me).
And the final category is those that dont fit anywhere, Stands that breaks rules like Requiem or B.I.G. Stands within a certai category all share traits, advantages and weaknesses (Although Power and Long Range tend to overlap, difference being long range tend to be weaker but can move further, automatic has the same as the above but isnt manually commanded but instead can function automatically but tend to be ******* stupid and exploitable).
Bound is where a bunch of rules are kinda broken like being corporal.
Joseph has hermit purple a thing with thorns that doesn't resemble anything to star platinum
Out of all those examples, only two had him say the world, and none were before stopping time. One was after. And showing off? Not quite showing off, some where like against the senator or Pol (although that was more a tatic to try and lure Pol over tos his side as he wanted to make use of Pol as his agent), some wheren't though, such as countering Pol, killing Joseph, killing the cops and taking control of one to scout if Jotaro is dead, killing Nukesaku, cutting Joseph to prevent his escape, etc. Either way, over half of Dio's time stops within the manga had no incantation. And the times there was any, we know why there was some (and even then I'm pretty sure there's like two more where he says the world, but only after time itself actually stops moving first). Actually pretty sure there is a few more earlier in the part as well, I could probably throw those into the album. Either way, no most aren't him yelling it, in fact over half aren't and it's made even worse when the anime changes scenes to where he says it when he canonically does not, like when he kills Joseph, the anime has him yell it but in the manga he did not.
Dio and polneraff was show off
Dio putting a corpse was show off
Dio getting behind hol horse was a show off because he didn't kill but intimidate him
It isn't better intangibility, i repeat it doesn't matter
it's soul ******* manipulation that is only managed to be done by a few stands
"My reasoning states they have better intangibility. Stands are intangible even to non-corporals and things that can interact with non-corporals. I'm gping to repeat what I saig again, this really isn't this hard to grasp. "
And that doesn't make sense, it's not better intangibility it's intanbility bypassing
"I never implied? I outright explicitly said so, I even quoted myself saying so i the very post you said i didn't, once again, reading comphrehension. Yes, Stands can not be seen nor harmed by a normal ghost vagabound, soul, etc yet a Stand is capable of seeing them and even destroying them in most cases. What does a ghost needing to see it have to do with it being able to or not being able to harm a Stand? Also that isn't even entirely true, Stand User's that are ghosts exist anyway."
Oh i'm sorry i might've misread it due to how much writting because in the reply below i gave you a reason why
"No, that's literaly what it means, if a noncorporal cant't **** with a Stand and it's like they arent even there, that's a greater intangibility. Here, I picked 3 examples, a Stand physically interacting with a soul as well as the Stand Arrow killing the soul, a Stand ability harming a ghost and the same ability but showing it's aftereffect. That's the last album I'm making, getting sick of gathering scans especially when this shit is on every profile just about."
You literally just went 360 with your arugement
Do you think i don't read JJBA do you? because that ability is only reserved to killer queen and black sabboth and here's the thing when black sabboth tires to take the soul of giorno out he instead takes his stand out which tells you a lot
In general, most stands users aren't even born with it and those who do have inherit it by their forefathers due to the meteor and it essentailly makes your soul a fighting stand or essentailly the life force or soul
"Except Annasui's gender change while he initially was intened to be a female, it was quickly shot down for editorial reasons, as such instead of just ignoring it, it's alluded to in the follwing chapters, with F.F questioning if Annasui was even a dude (Due to previous encounters) and explaining it away with the implications that Annasui is capable of changing his body structure and biology, which is how he gets from the men's ward to the women's ward, he disguises himself as a women, which is why, in universe, he initially appeard as a female. And Kakyoin never had that power, holy shit that's annoying, he never could do shit like that, all it was was him sending out Hierophant Green's tendril to attack Jotaro's leg, the painting was just for dramatic effect, same with the puppet he carried around at the start to make a point that HG can puppet bodies. Also yes, designs change all the time, that's not a retcon, that's called not having a finalized design or art style shift, like how 90s Jotaro was buff as **** but modern Jotaro isn't in the slightest."
You just red herring out of my point
My point was that you said that things in JJ BA retconned a lot and you were using things that still haven't even happened in part 3 as a justification that for some reason the world can go through quen because some stand with the ability to manipulate souls can too
**** no mate
Because it was relevant at the time but you somehow misintepreted one thing I said, proceeded to make a argument about a point I didnt actually make and now the info that was relevant then has been swept under the rug due to it derailing.
Well it's really easy to misinterpreted things when you write down 20 words per seconds and probably write something you didn't intend too
Yeah I have issues wih that, in game, no matter if it's from the weakest or strongest enemy, Quen will beak even if it's from a few to a few hundred blows. This matters because The World can punch more than just a few dozen times within one time stop, hell one second of casual puching is thousands at the absolute minimum. And Dio can break things within his time stop. Actually it's for that very reason, the fact he breaks things and deals damage in the moment within time stop, is why damage stacking in time stop isnt a thing for JoJo any longer I guess.
That's a game mechanic and damage stacking isn't thing because you can't expect for steely dan to have 7-B durability because he survived a rush down of star platinum
But, it is literally a rule. Standard Battle Assumptions. It's the default rule, it's only different unless specified by OP, if no specifications are made then that's the default state. I didn't ignore your point, your point is wrong because it is a rule and it applies here.
It's not in the OP's Post and that doesn't apply
No but he has the same Stand as The World and Diego. And Gyro and Johnny have the same Stand technically (same power), Or Diego and Dr. Fern, or the D'Arby Brothers (Although Terence is more skilled with it), or Jonathan and Joseph, or the 11 men, etc. And that's not even mentioning the mess that is JJL Kira, who is funky as ****. My point is the yeah some Stands are unique, but that definitely isnt the case with all Stands, you saying all Stands are unique is a lie, it's wrong, and even then, there's classifications of Stands and Stands within that class share their base attributes have rules.
The classes are.
Power Types (Star Platinum, King Crimson, Purple Haze, Made in Heave, D4C, etc)
Long Range (HG, Echoes)
Automatic (SHA, Highway Star, Doobie Wah).
Bound (Strength, WOF, Oh Lonesome Me).
And the final category is those that dont fit anywhere, Stands that breaks rules like Requiem or B.I.G. Stands within a certai category all share traits, advantages and weaknesses (Although Power and Long Range tend to overlap, difference being long range tend to be weaker but can move further, automatic has the same as the above but isnt manually commanded but instead can function automatically but tend to be ******* stupid and exploitable).
Bound is where a bunch of rules are kinda broken like being corporal.
Joseph has hermit purple a thing with thorns that doesn't resemble anything to star platinum
Out of all those examples, only two had him say the world, and none were before stopping time. One was after. And showing off? Not quite showing off, some where like against the senator or Pol (although that was more a tatic to try and lure Pol over tos his side as he wanted to make use of Pol as his agent), some wheren't though, such as countering Pol, killing Joseph, killing the cops and taking control of one to scout if Jotaro is dead, killing Nukesaku, cutting Joseph to prevent his escape, etc. Either way, over half of Dio's time stops within the manga had no incantation. And the times there was any, we know why there was some (and even then I'm pretty sure there's like two more where he says the world, but only after time itself actually stops moving first). Actually pretty sure there is a few more earlier in the part as well, I could probably throw those into the album. Either way, no most aren't him yelling it, in fact over half aren't and it's made even worse when the anime changes scenes to where he says it when he canonically does not, like when he kills Joseph, the anime has him yell it but in the manga he did not.
Dio and polneraff was show off
Dio putting a corpse was show off
Dio getting behind hol horse was a show off because he didn't kill but intimidate him
AngeronTheSkyHighAnger
He/Him- 955
- 229
The speed is equalized and geralt has set on fire higher vampires who are faster than geralt and completely immune to normal fireChariot190 said:You know Dio can just like, dodge it right? He can stop time (And it gets longer each time he uses it). Also putting your hand in Dio's face is a good way to lose that hand. And fyi, if that's the sun spell, that spell from what I read isnt actual sunlight, it's basically a flashbang with a fancy name and Dio is only weak to concentrated UV light (And he seemingly has grown a bit adept against anything but super high amounts, he shrugged off an Overdrive from Joseph in Part 3), not light as a whole.ThaTSayMarine said:Thebannanaworkshop said:
Igni
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