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Dies Irae Revisions

I could just argue that none of that is even real because it takes place in a non-canon work, but that's ridiculous so I won't.

Except when it is referring to things that are directly and blatantly contradicting the work that is actually canon.

When the non-canon work and the canon work say different, contradictory things, I'm inclined to go with the canon work as the priority
 
DI doesn't say different it just goes over the aposotis thing because masada likely didn't think of this until KKK < I know this may be stupid but we can't ignore KKK

Much like the Taikyoku count much like the Gudo Gods and many other things ....
 
iirc at first Marie was canon then KKK then masada rectoned that and said NOPE made Rea and that became canon
 
^Point is DI's games is canon and all the routes did happen in the canon but Snake reset the universe every dam time, Rea is canon in term of being the canon ending not the canon route, Rea route itself show you glimpse of Marie route because it happened in the past

KKK didn't happen in canon in the first place, KKK came in 2011 and Act es fabula came in 2009, it was never canon
 
The reason why the spear hit Schreiber is because it was allowed to. Otherwise it would just bend right out of the way.

And, honestly, this part I am rather unsure about myself. In Kei's route, we see a "regular" bayonet harm Reinhard. But before all that, we see Eleonore not being capable of harming Reinhard's body. Only Machina can do so due to how his Ber'iah works.

And this is rather important to note: The narration explicitly said that Kei's sword lacked the POWER to do so. And then you have Valeria's comment about the Legion having some ridiculous attack power. But for the sake of consistency, it is most likely for the best to simply chalk it up to indeed be a weakness of Reinhard. Or maybe there is an argument to be made for either side.

KKK is a what-if route that happens after Marie. It IS canon though that Hajun VS Dies Irae happened though as far as I am aware. It is just that Snake made it impossible for Hajun to appear after whatever shenanigans ensued that let them survive by removing any and all possibilities that led to him existing.

And the funny thing about Reinhard's own power destroying him? It is also mentioned that this is due to him attacking Mercurius. The whole "cancer cannot live without its host" thing.

And the whole resurrection/Regenerationn thing? Yeah. I agree that Reinhard doesn't do it instantaneously. But from what I could tell? Solely because of the Swastika limiting him. Might be stretching a bit, but it did apply to his lance sooo YEAH.

And no, Wilhelm doesn't literally consume the concept of escape. What it is really saying? You are now surrounded by a fuckton of stakes. Where in the bloody hell are you supposed to go without being skewered?

Cue Schreiber roaring and solving the problem.

But I do find DI's speed ratings to be ridiculously inflated at the moment, so I wouldn't mind seeing yet another revision on that front.

Or we can toss our hands up and just say that DI is full of inconsistency. I'll have to rustle my memories and see what else I can bulls-- I mean, figure out. :p
 
EvilMegaCookie said:
Or we can toss our hands up and just say that DI is full of inconsistency. I'll have to rustle my memories and see what else I can bulls-- I mean, figure out. :p
Click to expand...
It Is though lol
 
SchroKatze said:
Hajuns law actually causes complete erasure at death. There is no afterlife.

And Rindou came back.

DI plot is full of PIS, so It's obvious that Reinhard would die/lose in every route.

Reinhard died when he killed Merc in Rea Route, proofing that his very existence is sustained by Merc's.
Click to expand...
He only lose in Marie route and that was because of PIS
 
I think some things are fine, except the spear thing. I agree way more with EMC and Zero. We should also get Alfredo here.
 
I was wondering why Ren is 7-A, despite the fact that he defeated Reinhard and traded blows with him, and Reinhard at his weakest is about 6-A. Can someone explain this to me?
 
because it's PIS and reinhard held back with all 8 swastikas hell Ren wasn't on his level at all only machina and cain's at best. Reinhard was no where near his full power with the 8 swastika sealed which is right before he became a hadou (ren can only match him as a hadou)
 
Muhammedmco said:
I was wondering why Ren is 7-A, despite the fact that he defeated Reinhard and traded blows with him, and Reinhard at his weakest is about 6-A. Can someone explain this to me?
Click to expand...
PIS and Reinhard ridiculously holding back, Ren is Cain\Bey level at best

Also Ren never defeated Reinhard, the only time he won was in Marie route near the end with BIG help from Marie and Rea and that was in his 1-A status
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
because it's PIS and reinhard held back with all 8 swastikas hell Ren wasn't on his level at all only machina and cain's at best. Reinhard was no where near his full power with the 8 swastika sealed which is right before he became a hadou (ren can only match him as a hadou)
Click to expand...
Ren lost to Machina like 2-3 times though, he can only keep up because he's super fast
 
what i meant was he can SOMEWHAT contend with machina and managed to tango with cain so there is that somewhat too. All in all he is comparable in some sense
 
Fully agree about most things around here, except with Reinhard being wound-able by people of his own Legion. As EMC put it out, "And, honestly, this part I am rather unsure about myself. In Kei's route, we see a "regular" bayonet harm Reinhard. But before all that, we see Eleonore not being capable of harming Reinhard's body. Only Machina can do so due to how his Ber'iah works". Fully agree with him, and not only that, I'm inclined to say that is because Reinhard was directly using and empowering said Legions. As his offense exceeds his defense, it's only logical he'd get weakened. I do not think it is impossible for that weakness to exist, mind you, but highly unlikely considering how Reinhard's potrayed in the story, alongside with Eleonore and Kei being unable to harm him, and Machina being stated to only be able to wound him due to how his Briah works.
 
Shirou is not tied to ren, he does not gain an immortality by being tied to something until Ren reaches the Atziluth level.

That's why he died en 3 Routes before Ren.

Reinhard it's diferent and i still want a explanation, if KKK is a "what if" of Marie Route, en in M R Reinhard is "dead", how he return and fights Hajun? the only thing is as soon as Merc it's Alive, Reinhard too and sooner or later he will return, this or the Law or Merc that can return Bings even if they are erreased from creation itself and beyond that in every level/forms/etc of existence and non-existence.
 
Um...can anyone tell me why is Reinhard listed as 6-A for one-shotting Meth with hax based weapon?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't see wilhelm there.
 
it's clearly said in Kei route that the spear/Reinhard's power was weakened beacause only 7 swastika were opened
 
EvilMegaCookie said:
And the funny thing about Reinhard's own power destroying him? It is also mentioned that this is due to him attacking Mercurius. The whole "cancer cannot live without its host" thing.
Click to expand...
Weakness_of_hadou_reinhard3.png


Actually, it's both. The quote says "not only because his body couldn't withstand his overwhelming prowess", then states the "cancer without host thing"
 
EvilMegaCookie said:
The reason why the spear hit Schreiber is because it was allowed to. Otherwise it would just bend right out of the way.
Click to expand...
Why was it allowed to and when was this stated?
 
I'm inclined to agree with most of this stuff, save for, you guessed it, the spear stuff. I can't give much input though, given that I don't know shit about Dies Irae. The Type 8 stuff should definitely be removed, though.
 
Promestein said:
I'm inclined to agree with most of this stuff, save for, you guessed it, the spear stuff. I can't give much input though, given that I don't know shit about Dies Irae. The Type 8 stuff should definitely be removed, though.
Click to expand...
This.

ALRF is currently busy in real life, but we definitely need his input.
 
>Presents arguments against the justification for the spear ignoring distance

>Presents many examples showing the spear clearly not ignoring distance

> Spear ignoring distance is never mentioned nor implied in DI

>Everyone still disagrees because "Reinhard wasn't at full power"

Ugggghhhh.... whyyyyy
 
We need Trex input too.

Also, I disagree with the Type 8 removal, since Reinhard's existence remained as "Golden Apoptosis" even when Marie's Law take over the world and he reincarnated.

His body/soul aren't truly immortal by being an Apoptosis, but his very existence is immortal.
 
He can clearly still be killed, and he only reincarnated because of Marie's Law

Maybe if not for her Law someone else would have become the Apoptosis. Maybe not. We can't say for sure, so we go on what we can see, which is that Reinhard died, and Marie was the one who reincarnated him.
 
SchroKatze said:
We need Trex input too.
Also, I disagree with the Type 8 removal, since Reinhard's existence remained as "Golden Apoptosis" even when Marie's Law take over the world and he reincarnated.

His body/soul aren't truly immortal by being an Apoptosis, but his very existence is immortal.
Click to expand...
Don't even bother with Trex he rarely if ever make edits here

Reinhard can still be killed even if he comes back sometime later and tbh we never saw him doing that, Reinhard will always have that potential in him yes but it's something he choose to do and he only grow this part of his when he is around Snake

All in all I don't really care about Reinhard immortaly tbh I mean it just there .... It Also look like It's something Masada came with in KKK only
 
Well, I'm not fully sure about the spear stuff. Whatever the people who know more agree on
 
Monarch Laciel said:
>Presents arguments against the justification for the spear ignoring distance
>Presents many examples showing the spear clearly not ignoring distance

> Spear ignoring distance is never mentioned nor implied in DI

>Everyone still disagrees because "Reinhard wasn't at full power"

Ugggghhhh.... whyyyyy
Click to expand...
He never threw the spear when he was at full status and missed and it said multiple times it only works if he at full power

Which is stupid if you think about it considering Trifa can actually use the spear at full power anyway but for some reason the GODLY Reinhard can't pull it full power unless he is at full status

Ren's fights with Beast are full of PIS and CIS I won't use it as examples
 
The narration and Ren said the only reason he could doge Reinhard is because he's not at full power, Reinhard was so nerfed in Kei route it's not even funny and he still stomped the hell of Ren\Shirou\Kei

Ren fighting Reinhard in Marie is plain PIS
 
The spear's properties of never missing and always one shotting are stated not to work at full power.

No mention is EVER made to the spear ignoring distance, at full power or not, in the entirety of Dies Irae

And @ZERO, if you accept that Valerian can use the spear at full power, I kindly ask you to look at the screenshots where stuff still happens inbetween Trifa firing it and it actually hitting
 
He and Ren said.

Ren stated that the spear only missed and didn't have all of its properties because Reinhard wasn't at full power.
 
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