Did Marx survive the first Nova's explosion?

[Somelatinguy]

On a recent thread , discussing why Adeleine is stronger in Star Allies than in The Crystal Shards implied discussing whether Marx survived the first Nova's explosion or he was killed by it and reincarnated or revived by the Dream Rod, and these are arguments:

1) "He's stated to have absorbed the comet's power voluntarily in the what-if scenario."

a. That statement is a mistranslation: "ÒâÄÒâ┤ÒéíÒü«ÕèøÒéÆÒüìÒéàÒüåÒüùÒéàÒüåÒüùÒÇüÒüìÒéçÒüéÒüÅÒü«ÒüƒÒü¥ÒüùÒüäÒüîÒéêÒü┐ÒüîÒüêÒéï …" ("With the power of Nova, the spirit of evil revives…").

b. And even if it weren't, "to bring back his evil soul" would still mean his soul had left him and "He absorbed a Nova's power" would read like "The corpse absorbed the sun's rays."

2) "He appears in 'Kirby Brawl Ball', and spin-offs such as Mass Attack are canon if they're not proven non-canon."

a. On the contrary, they're canon if they're proven canon, and the only proven one is Dream Collection Special Editio, which was proven canon on a Miiverse post.

b. For starters, this is about "Kirby Brawl Ball", a mini-game of Mass Attack, and only Extra Modes and True Arenas were proven to be what-if scenarios.

3) "His past is mentioned in his descriptions, so the Star Allies one isn't a reincarnation."

a. Nintendo heroes' pasts are mentioned in their SSB counterparts' descriptions, too.

b. He was included as a Dream Friend because there wasn't a better character from Super Star (Ultra).

4) Lastly, he couldn't have survived the explosion; he's defeated by Kirby, who…

a. Can't destroy the comet; the villain stops and flashes for a second prior to flying to its core as a result of the link between them.

- The portion of the crust protecting the core detaches prior to the battle, which would be pointless if the core weren't hit later, so while depicted as instantaneous, it's a chain reaction.

b. Can't even destroy the columns creating the barrier protecting the core without the Starship, and the special Warp Star's appearance and role would be pointless if he didn't need to go to the nucleus.

c. Can't stop the moon-sized sun and moon and needs to summon the comet they struggle to stop.

As a conclusion, other moments in the series should scale to this.

 

[Chianli]

my smol brain cant handle this

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I have made my points already, I'm not expecting you to agree.

The new point is the fourth one. Kirby launched Marx into Nova hard enough to make the whole thing explode. I know you are going to say he launched Marx into the opening of Nova as like a weak point, but Nova explodes all at once, so this is not a chain reaction, it's at least a moon level feat. It also means that Kirby didn't actually need to go to the core if he could just yeet something to it at one point to just destroy it all.

Kirby's other feats that I have also made my points to already have you failing to understand that we don't look for what's more consistent, just what is consistent, then see how the character is portrayed. He is portrayed as the stronger feats being valid. Then actually completely reading pages like Plot-Induced Stupidity will give you a better idea of how VS debate works.

I am not planning to reply further.

 

[Somelatinguy]

a. Marx stops and flashes for a second prior to flying away, and while this occurs in gameplay, it doesn't increase or decrease any challenge, so it's not a game mechanic.

- The portion of Nova's crust protecting its core detaches prior to the battle, which would be pointless if the core weren't hit later, so while depicted as instantaneous, it's a chain reaction.

b. The Starship's appearance and role would be pointless if Kirby didn't need to go to the core.

c. Again, he needs to summon the comet because he can't stop the sun and moon from fighting.

- - - - -

a. As for "the stronger feats being valid", that's completely wrong; it's as if I said "the weaker feats being valid", but no, verses can have both low-end outliers and high-end outliers.

b. That being said, saying that low-end moments are automatically PIS ones is petitio principii.

c. No further reply? Too bad, the readers won't be given the "truth."

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Nice, now wait for someone else to reply.

 

[Somelatinguy]

I will wait for someone to refute what you couldn't.

Point 1 alone proves Marx was killed by that explosion.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Ugh... I can tell you are trying to find a way to talk to me. ƒÿÆ You were questioning me agreeing with something you said a while ago like you wanted me to disagree or something, and now you are saying that only one point proves something as oppose to my other points that I am not going to repeat.

"I will wait for someone to refute what you couldn't." I could if I had all the time I wanted to, and if I were as devoted to prove a point as you are, but I'm not. Seeing the other debates you've had goes to show that I'm not going to get anywhere. All I've seen is them ending cause the other is tired of debating, just like mine. It's not even just Kirby of the Stars, you've said you expect us to change other series, as many profiles as needed. We are definitely not going to do that, multiple smart minds and lessers getting debunked by one user that doesn't want to waste weeks or months of wall level feat research and will stop at nothing to prove that Kirby who can do this is wall level. That makes no sense, I don't want to see denial, those four are clearly bare minimum moon level feats, I'm one-hundred percent sure the first three are not powerscaling feats, and those aren't the only feats. The only reason you are saying the Dream Rod has almighty powers that are in no way directly demonstrated, is because you want to find a reason for Kirby to not scale to Marx surviving the Nova's explosion. He is back in Kirby Star Allies, no need to make this a research expedition to find out the truth of the universe.

They don't specify who did what in the Japanese version, they do in the English version. He is now back and they provided a reason for it. I don't want to use my time to explain it when it's not my job, and I don't find it fun. I like VS debate cause it's fun, not to go over this stuff for as long as we have fingers to type reasons to prove each other wrong when it has already been proven, and you don't want to agree. I don't need you to agree anyway. Eficiente is the best VS debater I know and he gave up not cause he ran out of reasons, because he has grown tired of using his time to debate with you when there will be no conclusion.

For the second b point, it just goes to show that you only read the Fallacy page, and don't actually know how plot-induced stupidity works, unless you are still ignoring Kirby's other feats. One of the main reasons the plot-induced stupidity factor exists is to prevent people from thinking that weak feats that are even way more conststent than other consistent feats that characters have and are portrayed as having those valid, be invalid. In simpler terms, all feats of Kirby being comparable to a wall, and not being able to move faster than wind can blow, is completely plot-induced stupidity or game mechanics as I've said many times, because he can consistently do better too. Especially since he is portrayed as it, being wall level is out of the question. Debating whether Kirby is planet level or multi-solar system level is considered a reasonable debate at most, so don't think that wall level is ever going to happen.

You're lucky I'm nice, cause if I were speaking my mind, I have a lot to say about how you take having credibility for granted, as just one thing. In short, only inconveniences happen with you commenting on other people's threads. Why do you think you have been told to "make your own thread" plenty of times? Why do you think Eficiente closed his 2-C Kirby theory thread as soon as you commented? Your contribution history shows only commenting on this subject, so I know you do nothing else. I try my best to stay with Battle for Dream Island instead of my favourite series (Kirby of the Stars) cause I don't want to get myself spending an hour just to comment once. I would I could go on, but just like lots of things with you, it's a waste of time, it really is. Just face that being an extremist to want change an entire wiki, no, an entire genre, when we have told you you are wrong is not going to happen.

I'm bored, I know I will naturally ignore your reply cause it's going to be very long, so don't bother wasting your time.

 

[Somelatinguy]

- I just want to correct people I think are wrong, it's nothing against you.

- I've explained those feats, the first two in this thread's point 2b, and that return as well.

- You didn't read point 1 carefully; and Eficiente stopped debating me because he's intolerant.

- Begging the question again.

- I comment on other people's threads with the same right they comment on my threads.

- Reply only six lines long.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

It's good that it's short, but now it's a bit off topic, I should just let you wait for someone else if that's going to happen. If we keep replying, it'll become very long, and inconvenient to get to the most recent post. I don't know what else to say to just get out of the conversation on a good note like I always try to do with others, so bye.