Now let's talk about
this one.
Third Disagreement: Kyo Takashi
"You starts off telling that it was nonsense to use the quote from Kamiya himself because it was short"
A one-word answer shows disinterest and is super vague.
"Kamiya could have answered "Building", "Planet", "Multiverse", or "Omniverse" and the answer would make as much connective sense, but answering universe implies that he is saying it is a Universe, so people accepted it. --- Wich clearly contradicts what is said in the last text that you brought from the Editing Rules"
No I didn't, dude. ANY one word response would make as much connective sense as saying "Universe". He didn't even directly answer the question directly. In terms of logical progression, if he said "Banana" or "Cat", it would make as much connective tissue.
But you jump into thinking it's right because you want Universal DMC, pure and simple.
"And then after you picked up some of the thousands of the trolling fans questions and Kamiya's answer to make your point about him not being reliable about his own work shine more"
Yes, because Kamiya trolls people and makes it abundantly clear he hates Vs Question and has been trolling people who ask Who Would Win questions to him since 2009. I'm sorry, but it's the fact.
"So, as you can see, Hideki Kamiya is a human who gets frustrated when fans ask him about things he already pleaded and raged them not to question or already answered, not taking very lightly when people ask him who would win in a fight against two characters that he created instead of asking something NEW AND PRODUCTIVE ABOUT THEM AS CHARACTERS, or even about their universe in particular"
And asking if Mundus can create a universe
isn't a new and productive questio, it's a dumb VsDebating question which gets troll answers.
"It would be easy to fend off things about Kamiya's statements here, but you made the favor to contradict yourself once more and had given us an answer to the problems"
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
"I would point bias, since your statement goes with a nonsensical random answer so people could leave him alone when the feat is already there (and frankly we all know what it is) and he simply clarifies what we already know, but meh, let me continue (as this would take more than needed) "
The feat isn't there, and only a wanker would look at something so vague and jump at the conclusion that Mundus is creating a universe. He didn't clarify anything, he is trolling the fanboys by giving them what they want to hear, knowing that they will embrace it regardless of how illogical it is.
If a Superman writer on twitter says that Superman has the power of the Big Bang, will you believe it? No, it's pure nonsense. Same thing here.
"Oh, and there is the point that he hates Battles between his characters, but he do not hate to clarify what happens in his games. He clarified what happend in his games more than just a few times, while i can chopp my head off if you found him saying which characters wins against wich in some Troll Question. But nah, you can't find it, because this is what you want to happen, not what Kamiya wants"
Yes, he doesn't mind answering normal questions, but
asking if Mundus created a universe is a Vs Question. I'm sorry.
"The former is indeed the most valid one."
No it's not. Nothing clarifies it as such.
"You can't just simply come and say a Franchise that has a set number of Dimensions, and that take the Dimension topic seriously as **** (to the point any enemy that has any power following that line, Nightmare for example, has a larger role to play in the games)"
Nightmare uses nightmare illusions, dude.
"The main plot of ALL games is about the fights between Human World (One Dimension) and the Demon World (Another Dimension) - The Mirror World (Another Dimension) is simply the friggin passage to Hell - Nightmare's Dimension (Another Dimension) is a space created by Mundus (who created Nightmare) guarded by creatures that travels freely between both main dimensions (Human and Demon) (The Sargasso) that makes the victim revive his darkest fears and traumas"
Holy Non-Sequitur, man. So the Verse having other dimensions means that Mundus is creating a dimension? What sort of logic is this, what you said makes no connective sense. You are just appealing to instances where there are dimensions to insist that this scene with 0 clarification is a dimension creating feat when there is
0 evidence that it is.
"Yes, yes, yes. Forget the fact that Mundus had showed before 'Universe Level rating' by separating and then going to reunite The Human World and the Demon World and goes for the it proves nothing. Forget the Name = Power statement from Arkham too (that we know what you think about that statement ''
vagueness... but when it comes from his daughter's statements, oh gosh, it is sacred stuff when she says about Abigail right?)"
All things I debunked, but you can't deal with that, can you?
"It is more likely, when we never saw in any DMC game a Character FORCING Dimensional Transportantion into another? Transporting yourself is other thing, but you are almost saying Mundus has Meta-Teleportantion man (are you sure you are trying to downgrade?)"
Meta-Teleportation doesn't exist, and we see demons creating portals and using teleportation in Devil May Cry, what's your point?
"'So, let's go to the putrid Overral Scaling...'"
Okay, listen. You are continuously throwing shade and being incredibly arrogant / rude in your post. This adds absolutely nothing to your argument and just makes you look like an angry biased fanboy. I would much rather appreciate you discuss peacefully as that would actually give credence to your arguments.
"No. You picked feats from Mid Tiers of the verse and said Hey, the verse has this powers. The Top and the God tiers should have no powers above this for the reason that i want it to be that way, even if backstory puts the god tiers lightyears above that. Seriously:"
I LITERALLY WATCHED ALL CUTSCENES FROM ALL DMC GAMES AND LISTED EVERY SINGLE FEAT.
THERE IS NOTHING ABOVE TIER 6 IN DMC.
Also, you also wank the notion of a God-Tier equating being "Lightyears ahead"
"Mundus, sealed in another Dimension and not using any avatar creating a storm"
He wasn't sealed anymore, dude. Nor was he weakened, and it is still one of the only two feats Mundus has.
"Mundus, sealed in another Dimension, never was stated to create Mallet Island, but his Defeat IN ANOTHER DIMENSION threatened to destroy it as backfire of his loss"
Mundus wasn't sealed anymore, and it is very likely he created it because Mundus dying led to it being destroyed.
"Human Arius, using a friggin summoning ritual to bring to the human world a God Tier of DMC, creating a large vortex of clouds"
It shows that the main villain of DMC 2 can't create storms by himself. "so over time that Nero, that is constantly in missions over there, because it's the way to the HQ, didn't have noticed before. Because you want it to be that way"
It is over-time, we have 0 STATEMENTS ABOUT THE TIMEFRAME, and it is likely it was over a period of time.
"It was Sid, a minor weaker demon that could not control Abigail's powers, that made a Multi-Continental level feat"
Nobody has proven to me that Current Abigail is weaker. This is a headcanon to try and hide the 3-A outlier.
"The Saviour starting a storm - I don't even remember that one (not that it really matters)"
It does matter,
the only feat from a God Tier is Tier 7, how is it irrelevant?
"In reality, the strongest characters have their own considerations (like the fact that Argosax before it was even completely summoned was distorting the Human World, as Arius said, but i would have to pick that up later)."
A distortion which is never clarified and shown and which amounted to demons invading.
But yes, the strongest characters have the strongest feats, which are
Mundus collapsing an island and
Abigail doing continental clouds.
These are THE best reliable feats in all of DMC.
"The only humongous outlier that grossly contradicts the scale of the series as a whole was one made by yourself saying that Prime Abigail is as strong as Mundus, wich put him at 3-A on this wiki (wich a HIGHLY Disagree), going by a statement of Lady that is basically There was this guy that summoned Demons, and he could not control Abigail, wich i heard was as strong as the Demon King, so yeah, he is strong people (and, of course, your '
interpretatio of the narrative) "
No, she says that Abigail is comparable to Mundus, no reason to say he isn't. You once again deny it to hide the actual outlier which is Mundus being 4-A or 3-A.
"Can you believe that i actually agree in part with you right there? Who would have tough whu? I am saying about the part of the scale of course, because God Tiers in EVERY Fiction Work are supposedly Godly above another characters. They are MADE to be lightyears above the other ones in power"
Wow, you missed my point entirely. So I will reiterate.
None of the God Tiers other than Mundus show anything greater than Tier 7 or 6.
There.
"Dante before Prime and without Sparda's powers is in fact a Top Tier. He could One-Shot 'Sidgail' (another Top Tier) with ease using Devil Trigger, while with all HIS power alone he couldn't even scratch Mundus "I remember like it was yesterday, the post where you were trying to downgrade Mundus by using Lady's statement (The one that actually boosted Abigail to Universe Level, ugh)."
Dante in the Anime is stronger than Dante in DMC 1 since it takes place after. That only shows that Dante got strong enough to beat up Mundus level entities easily.
Abigail isn't Universal, man. Neither is Mundus.
"I talked about Pluto's, and you said something like Ugh, but the official translation has nothing to do with it."
Because there is 0 proof that Pluto = Mundus and actual evidence that he isn't.
"And it is no random scanlation, it is the official one, the one that counts and bla bla bla. So, when it is of your interest, you pick the scanlation one (''''
that is more accurate to the japanese version'''') and when is of your interest, you pick the official one."
I changed my mind, but
both translations debunk Universal Mundus. It doesn't matter.
"Interest to know more about the kind of person you are Matt. But let's not be stucked on personal affairs, shall we?"
Are you going to descend to Ad-Hominens now? Thank you.
"is outright stated to be allegorical - This doesn't matter at all... really '-'. It is HIS name. It is HIS power. It literally don't contradict in any point"
Do you know what an allegory means? Mundus has that name because of the evocative imagery and meaning, and to represent that he rules the Demon World. It
doesn't mean that he is a Universe or Universal, that is literally the most absurd interpretation of his name possible.
"If you studied more Matt, you would see that Agni means Fire in Hindi, while Rudra means Wind"
Oh wow, don't act like you're a genius and I'm ignoring. I am 100% sure I know more about religions and mythology than you. But this is besides the point.
The point, which apparently you missed, is that Agni and Rudra in DMC
are not the Hindu Gods, they are just demons with Fire and Wind powers. The names indicate their nature but are not literal.
Also, btw, what does the name
Neva have to do with Succubi and Lightning? Absolutely nothing. So the supposed rule that Demon Names = Their nature and power isn't even consistent.
"So yeah, they are to be taken literally, your opinion on the matter can't change that. Specially when it has clear bias. When Arkham says a Demon's Powers depend on the Name, you say NO. When Arkham says The Human World was already there, and after some war the Underworld was born you say YES. *cough* BIAS BIAS BIAS *cough*"
Stop screaming and personally attacking me. The fact of the matter is we know Mundus and other Demon Names are allegorical but you want to use a character's name to say they are Universal when they have 0 Universal feats.
"No. From all we know he was born Mundus, and for what the Guidebook tells us (in the page you yourself showed us) it is stated that, and i quote: ...a dark prince of the Underworld mustered a great army of evil and slew the former God of Evil. He is named Mundus because he's powers extend to the meaning of that, not what you want to "
And this proves what exactly? I meant it is allegorical for the audience cause it evokes imagery and ideas to us.
"No. He said Mundus meaned Universe in Latin (So, an official interview that Kamiya states, albeit indirectly this time, that Mundus have Universe level of power. Cool)."
Wow, Mundus meaning Universe = Mundus being Universal?
I guess I am literally God's gift to the world cause
this is what Matthew means.
"The rest is He is the ruler of the Underwolrd / We DESIGNED him God-Like instead of Devil-Like for the player to feel his Dignity and We choose because it gave him a good look. So, nothing contradicts the fact that he has more than one Universal Level Feat and that he's name, wich is akin to his power, Means Universe"
No, dude. It is saying that he
Rules a Universe, not that he is Universal. The Queen of England isn't Country level.
"That was a bad joke you did there Akin to Its power no Akin to what he is"
Yes, the Ruler of the Demon World, not an Universal.
"Mundus fused the Demon World and the Human World. Wich are two halves of the universe - Should i explain that half of a Universe is still infinite? I think not"
The universe is finite, you need proof that the universe is infinite in DMC, when we don't have we use the size of the Observable Universe as a minimum.
"By the same reason that he do not simply appear in front of Dante the first moment he sets his feet on Mallet Island. HE WAS SEALED. Stuck in another Dimension"
HE WASN'T, AS EVIDENCED BY THE END OF THE GAME. He needed Preparation to open a Gate to invade the Demon World, and had resurrected and regained his power.
"only could send insignificant beings (close to him) that powers were so weak that the Seal, made for Stronger beings, couldn't contain."
What logic is this.
>Seal contains Mundus
>Seal can't contain foddders
???
"The smaller ones phased trough the wholes on the fence, while the bigger one couldn't."
Pure headcanon.
"It is so simple that is laughable how you simply ignore to get what you want."
The only thing which is laughable is insisting that a supposed Universal Reality Warper needs Prep-Time to open a portal.
"Two words: Human Creation. Temen-Ni-Gru was created by HUMANS, who divined DEMONS and wanted DEMON POWER, but, as the Underworld was sealed, they needed to build up a GATEWAY, so they could PASS TROUGH and gain their so desired DEMON POWER."
And it was through this gate that Demons invaded Earth, as evidenced
By Sparda sealing Temen-Ni-Gru to stop demons from invading.
"Want me to expalin the rest of DMC 3 Plot or did you gathered what was needed?"
No need, I watched all the cutscenes and I think the story is fresher in my memory than yours.
"I expect the former, please. It is not cool to keep stating such obvious trivialities"
I'm glad you understand my side of things.
"No, Sparda needed. Sparda need after sealing basically ALL HIS POWER inside de Underworld"
NO, He sealed all of his power
DURING THIS RITUAL, you are literally inverting the order of events and outright lying now.
"Man, i have to beg to stop the obvious trivialities? It's in the game!! You only need to play it"
You need to play it, since you are misremembering stuff now.
"You use only the things that favour your opinion."
I used literally everything.
"The scanlation thing made me go speechless when i read, to go from i have reason because my sources are official when you needed to i have reason because my sources are not official, but closely to japanese when it was suited for you."
Because I am not arrogant enough to be incapable of admiting I was wrong and changing my mind. The Scanlation is likely more faithful and literal to the Japanese Original.
"Don't need to talk anymore about the subversion of both Hideki Kamiya and his words, nor the contradictions on your on texts"
Subversion? I just analyzed the pattern of Hideki Kamiya and concluded that he isn't reliable.
You added nothing new to the table.