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Devil May Cry Revisions

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tbf @mat Dante was stated to surpass sparda in power in DMC 2 but i don't think it goes to base Dante Majin may have 3-A because of it being an improvised version of the sparda DT idk if that statment was for base dante as well
 
Actually Dante is stated to have surpassed Sparda in DMC 1, but I would argue that by DMC Anime he is stronger than Sparda with the Devil Trigger and by DMC 4 he is on Sparda's level period.
 
"We have DBS at 3-A tbf for one feat"

No, there is the Universal Punches, the Beerus Energy blast and multiple statements about GoDs being casually Universal. Also, Dragon Ball has a logical progression of power that literally starts at Wall level and climbs all the way to Solar System level before the Universal stuff hits.

"Savior was used by the priest again goes to the first point about arkham he lacked sparda's blood"

Savior was powered by the Sparda Sword + Nero's blood, and Nero is Vergil's son meaning he has Sparda's blood.
 
If you mean about griffon well idk really Dante was stated to be that strong in 2's lore while griffon...he may fought sparda but idt its sparda's full power (idk how to take that one tbh i need to replay a bit)
 
The problem I have with this wiki is simple: we either take things way out of context, or we wank a feat to death.

For the record, I am somewhat in the middle. I think Matts point about author statements make sense, but as for Mundus creating a supposed universe with stars, I am skeptical of.

But I am also still skeptical of many more verses that use the same scaling and we have different logic for.

For example, we accepted 2-C castlevania, we havent accepted 4-A garland from FF1.

We accepted 3-C P5, but now we are not accepting 3-A dmc, not even 4-A dmc.

So because the 'best feat' we have seen is now to be dismissed, because it can be an outlier?\

Okay, fine.

Then I think the only person from my list who would stay in their tier is Dracula via consistency.

And even setting this aside right, this street cannot go one way.

IE: The Strongest feats say an entire tier is now to be dismissed as an outlier because it has only happened once.

I will be honest, I even think we should just dismiss the feat like the plague.

I propose if it is a so called outlier, not to just downgrade straight up to 'High 6-A', but to add 'Possibly 4-A for both.'

or at the very least 'Possibly Far Higher'.

As far as I remember, Mundus is also an outlier in the verse in general. since he was also the previous ruler in Demon World. Just by sheer position, we should be inclined to accept his feats are going to be beyond most people in the series.

Just my thoughts with my problems what this seems to be is a one way street with creation feats in general.
 
"For example, we accepted 2-C castlevania"

Because it has painfully obvious Tier 2 feats, deal with it.

"we havent accepted 4-A garland from FF1"

Don't know much about FF, maybe @The_Everlasting can shed light on this.

"We accepted 3-C P5"

Because of stuff like Ultimate Attacks involving moving constellations, destroying galaxies, and Okumura's Palace being 4-A in size.

"but now we are not accepting 3-A dmc, not even 4-A dmc."

I wrote a 3.350 word essay of a post explaining why, please don't act like this is being done arbitrarily.

"IE: The Strongest feats say an entire tier is now to be dismissed as an outlier because it has only happened once."

Because the feat itself is very vague and uncertain and not even people on Mundus' level replicate the feat.

"I will be honest, I even think we should just dismiss the feat like the plague."

Nobody is doing it, we just concluded it is unreliable and an outlier.

"As far as I remember, Mundus is also an outlier in the verse in general. since he was also the previous ruler in Demon World. Just by sheer position, we should be inclined to accept his feats are going to be beyond most people in the series."

No, because several characters are on his level and higher and they don't get feats on this level.
 
What? The problem here is he likely didn't create a universe of any kind, if he did itd be different and the author statement here is more along the lines of Kamiya telling someone to piss off than giving an answer.
 
YES! DESTROY THE OUTLIERISH STATMENT! DESTROY IT ALLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
@Matthew

It isnt an issue I have with nuance Matt, it is more so an overaching problem I have with this wiki on this issue. If someone were to create say a pocket dimension with stars, we include this as 4-A under our system unless there is more context given.

Also, the strongest feats dont have to be dismissed as an outlier, in fact going through them all.

Abigal, 'surpasses Mundus, has a High 6-A feat'

This is pretty vague, where was it stated she surpassed Mundus Matt. I want a source.

'We accepted 2-C because we have painfully obvious tier 2 feats, deal with it.'

I am dealing with it, but you saying to just 'deal with it' is dismissive of my point.

We accept this, which is more logical and has like, 4-5 games backing this up.

We accept 3-C P5 because...one guy has a galaxy as his dimensional sphere. and yet not even the final villain, the villain before or even Akechi had similar feats of this level. I ask for consistency here Matt.

We don't accept 5-A garland ff1, but we also stated on his profile it is likely higher. Sure, I am fine with that, it gets the feat across, so seems fine to me.

But now, we arent even accepting a 'possibly higher' because it is an outlier?

What is an outlier to you matt because in my eyes, many profiles on this wiki use imo outliers as main justifications for stats

If you said 'I think we should downgrade to At Least High 4-A, Possibly 4-A, then it would be fine.

But no, you didnt. You just called it an outlier because it is inconsistent.

Again, I dont care if you downgrade it to High 6-A, but all I ask is consistency from you Matt.

I still think the feat should be listed as a 'Possibly 4-A' imo.

We accept way more outlandish things on this wiki then this, so I see no harm.


Edit: This post is admitedly messy but a tldr version is we should accept Possibly 4-A dante with the caveat that this feat has not been replicated or At Most 4-A'

Similar to how we rank Percedel from Wakfu currently, Hulk speed on marvel etc etc.
 
I go by a case by case basis usually, in this case it's likely not a legitimate showing.

Of course Matt likely is typing write now and he can debate this better than I can.
 
"If someone were to create say a pocket dimension with stars, we include this as 4-A under our system unless there is more context given."

We don't know if he created it. There's 0 context.

"Also, the strongest feats dont have to be dismissed as an outlier, in fact going through them all."

We generally accept the strongest feats as lost as they aren't completely absurd and irreconcilable with the rest of the series. In this case, it is.

"This is pretty vague, where was it stated she surpassed Mundus Matt. I want a source."

Never said that Abigal > Mundus, just that Abigail is comparable.

"We accept 3-C P5 because...one guy has a galaxy as his dimensional sphere. and yet not even the final villain, the villain before or even Akechi had similar feats of this level. I ask for consistency here Matt."

The final villain has the combined power of all 7 Sins rather than just one, there are multiple Tier 4 feats, etc.

"But now, we arent even accepting a 'possibly higher' because it is an outlier?

What is an outlier to you matt because in my eyes, many profiles on this wiki use imo outliers as main justifications for stats"

I don't think you get what Outlier means. Outlier doesn't simply mean "Best feat", Outlier means a feat which is impossible to match with the rest of the setting, like GT Trunks getting hurt with a car or Dr. Strange being a threat to Pre-Retcon Beyonder.

I'm not accepting 4-A because it is ridiculously higher than everything else, is super vague, and I'm not putting an incorrect Tier on a profile simply to appease fans.

Also:

"Again, I dont care if you downgrade it to High 6-A, but all I ask is consistency from you Matt."

I generally try my hardest to be unbiased with how I analyze Verses.
 
DMUA said:
We shouldn't accept these things though.
Click to expand...
I think you indirectly get my point lol

I get it, we will have different opinions on this. Some people disagree with our Naruto pages, our pokemon pages etc etc.

We work hard to have our democratic, yet substantied opinion to the world as an index of how strong a character is.

But from my perspective, some things in particular have to be brought up because of this.

Sure, lets downgrade DMC .

But we should also then talk about P5, and perhaps FF1, maybe castlevania? (probably not this one but ehh)

Wakfu maybe?

My point is this, either we accept this as an outlier and fix so many other verses for only having a feat being replicated once (Many, many jrpgs will unfortunately suffer as casualties in such a revision...)

Or we dont and we find better standards for our rules on pocket realities, as detailed perhaps as our rules for scaling with marvel and how tony isnt 4-B because hulkbuster or thorbuster armor.


We already determined what are outliers in many verses, most I agree with, but here it seems to make me forget about the many times we accepted more crazy things in the past.

/coughs Tier 6 Jojo characters


Edit: It is midnight here, so I will check back to this post later in depth when I am more awake and possibly making more sense with less ranty comments.
 
"We already determined what are outliers in many verses, most I agree with, but here it seems to make me forget about the many times we accepted more crazy things in the past."

DMC Verse =/= Other Verses.
 
Woah wait a second there man, the only characters in all of the jojo media is Novel Kars and Ultimate DIO who are completely and utterly insanely above everything else in raw stats.

If you're talking about time stop stacking ya got me there.
 
My point being Matt is that we accept this as an outlier, we should probably have better standards on dimension creation anyway since some people in that category only have 1-2 feats as well to back it up.
 
Well, I don't see what new thing he could bring to the table, but sure.

Still, literally everyone else is agreeing with me.
 
I agree with ya too but he could pull some completely unknown or obscure piece of info or some odd pieces of Japanese text to support his side.

Who knows, I mean things get upgraded and downgraded all the time due to stuff like that. See Digimon.

Do I think it'll happen? No, but I'd rather give him benefit of the doubt instead of not giving him a chance, at least that's my view.
 
well if just transported its either space or demon world from what i understand unless that's some unexplored world he did flap his wings and the space engulfed them both idk how else to say other than creating though again i'm in the thin line atm
 
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