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Devil May Cry Revisions

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Just a minor suggestion for Dante

DMC4 Dante': 'Multi-Continent level (Defeated The Savior, which has Sparda's power) --> (equal to The Saviour, which has imperfect Sparda's power)

Dante couldn't defeated it, they were equal, if you remember last moment of the battle before Nero destroyed Sanctus Diabolica, Dante was so tired that he was unable to dodge the incoming punch from the Saviour, and The Saviour was also so damaged that it couldn't fly anymore. Dante was unable to defeat it without Nero's aid from the inside.

and The Saviour on DMC4 was imperfect, Sanctus originally needed Dante (or maybe Vergil if he's still alive) to unlock its full potential, but he was unable to do so, so he just took Nero for the substitution, and I think the fully powered Saviour will be stronger than DMC4 Dante (without his DT Sparda).
 
Skylietz said:
Just a minor suggestion for Dante
DMC4 Dante': 'Multi-Continent level (Defeated The Savior, which has Sparda's power) --> (equal to The Saviour, which has imperfect Sparda's power)

Dante couldn't defeated it, they were equal, if you remember last moment of the battle before Nero destroyed Sanctus Diabolica, Dante was so tired that he was unable to dodge the incoming punch from the Saviour, and The Saviour was also so damaged that it couldn't fly anymore. Dante was unable to defeat it without Nero's aid from the inside.

and The Saviour on DMC4 was imperfect, Sanctus originally needed Dante to unlock its full potential, but he was unable to do so, so he just took Nero for the substitution, and I think the fully powered Saviour will be stronger than DMC4 Dante (without his DT Sparda).
Click to expand...
Are you implying that Nero should be upgraded from High 7-C?
 
> No I didn't, dude. ANY one word response would make as much connective sense as saying "Universe". He didn't even directly answer the question directly. In terms of logical progression, if he said "Banana" or "Cat", it would make as much connective tissue <

- Yeah, here you just ignore what i said and just goes to say the same stuff you've said before like it is a proper answer. They asked to clarify the feat, he clarified, you want him to elaborate on something he answered a million times? Please, if you going to do things this way, at least consider that more than 80% of the questions simply go and said **** the rules that you put on your twitter we are trolls

> But you jump into thinking it's right because you want Universal DMC, pure and simple. <

- If i want Universal DMC, you want Continental DMC. Simple as that

> Yes, because Kamiya trolls people and makes it abundantly clear he hates Vs Question and has been trolling people who ask Who Would Win questions to him since 2009. I'm sorry, but it's the fact. <

- Put it in a decent way. People troll Kamiya less ******* for the rules he puts, wich make him get pissed off. And you didn't get the point, as the Mundus Feat isn't a Vs Question, is a clarification about what happened on his game. That is why he answered clarifying. Until trolls came and questioned the same thing non-stop. Consider him a troll just because he is constantly attack by the same trolls is stupidity

> And asking if Mundus can create a universe isn't a new and productive questio, it's a dumb VsDebating question which gets troll answers. <

- Of course it ins't new. Thousands of idiots keeped questioning him. But it was enough for him to reply: Universe. He never, NEVER, answered an VS Question about who would win a fight between this characters: because it doens't matter. So why he answered to the clarification question? Because mattered at some point, and he would answering if people weren't stupid, so he redirects. He FRIGGIN Redirect, if he didn't care at all, he would leave to the nothingness. But he redirects to another question. C'mon man, it is not possible that you REALLY think Universe has the SAME value as Go ask your mother or Go ask Mundus, because it doensn't. Universe is clarification. Ask your... is trolling trolls

> The feat isn't there, and only a wanker would look at something so vague and jump at the conclusion that Mundus is creating a universe. He didn't clarify anything, he is trolling the fanboys by giving them what they want to hear, knowing that they will embrace it regardless of how illogical it is. <

- Mundus flaps his Wings and that surges. But of course, with context, with clarification and with God Tier powers being that level, it is not because you want it not to be. And you suddenly knows what Kamiya thinks to, because he has SO MUCH TIME, that he redirects the guys who ask him things to that post because he keeps laughing at them since 2009... make sense in your head, somehow

> If a Superman writer on twitter says that Superman has the power of the Big Bang, will you believe it? No, it's pure nonsense. Same thing here. <

- More ignorant impossible. If Superman punch is shown crippling the whole universe and a thousand characters said he had power to destroy the universe, and a Superman writter said he had the power of the big bang, you wouldn't believe because, supposedly, it's pure nonsense

> Yes, he doesn't mind answering normal questions, but asking if Mundus created a universe is a Vs Question. I'm sorry. <

- No, it doesn't. Unless you see the other entity that is fighting Mundus when the question What Mundus created there, and i should advise you that if you do, you are the only one

> No it's not. Nothing clarifies it as such. <

- And you ignore the clarifications. As always, showing how interested in downgrading DMC you are

> Nightmare uses nightmare illusions, dude. <

- No. Sometimes i wonder if you played the game or read the archives or if you just searched for Downgrade. Quote When you are surrounded on its gel-like form, you will be teleported into an evil dimension. It will not be illusions just because you want them to be

> Holy Non-Sequitur, man. So the Verse having other dimensions means that Mundus is creating a dimension? What sort of logic is this, what you said makes no connective sense. You are just appealing to instances where there are dimensions to insist that this scene with 0 clarification is a dimension creating feat when there is 0 evidence that it is. <

- Oh, almighty lord of knowledge. If you can simply pass by with no regard for anything i've said and generalizing everything, than you must know everything, don't you? Than tell me:

1 - What dimension, never mentioned before was the one that Mundus teleported than?

2 - Why Mundus could teleport simply like that to other dimension if he was sealed on the Underworld?

3 - Why that dimension simply vanished as Mundus vanished, leaving Dante in the very same place he wore before Mundus ''''''''Teleported''''''''''' him?

4 - Why did Mundus teleported them there if he could dealt with Dante there where they were? (If you find another random motive i can laugh)

5 - Why that dimension was never mentioned, even if every single dimension on the game was important and relevant?

6 - Why Kamiya stated Universe about it, when the questions were asking clarification and NEVER suggestive ones?

> All things I debunked, but you can't deal with that, can you? <

- If you debunked, why the stats haven't changed?

> Abigail isn't Universal, man. Neither is Mundus. <

- Yeah, in your conception, the one that ignores Kamiya, The Games and the Guide, neither of the two are

> Meta-Teleportation doesn't exist, and we see demons creating portals and using teleportation in Devil May Cry, what's your point? <

- The point that we see Demons using portals and you still think they need a gateway to access the Human World. In other words, the interpretation that suits your opinion

> I LITERALLY WATCHED ALL CUTSCENES FROM ALL DMC GAMES AND LISTED EVERY SINGLE FEAT.

THERE IS NOTHING ABOVE TIER 6 IN DMC.

Also, you also wank the notion of a God-Tier equating being "Lightyears ahead" <

- In other words, you are saying that DMC only have THOSE feats. Ok, but what happened to literally ALL the others? And yes, there is. Mundus, like it or not, it doens't make any sense he teleporting then to another random dimension. DMC is 3-A. And the thing about God Tiers is to illustrate the fact that God Tiers are MEANT to be ahead of everyone in the verse

> He wasn't sealed anymore, dude. Nor was he weakened, and it is still one of the only two feats Mundus has. <

- Yes, he were. It's a major plot point, you can't just ignore that. And i never said he was weakened. Can you show why do you say that he wasn't sealed anymore, when the first thing important Trish says is that he is trying to escape?

> Mundus wasn't sealed anymore, and it is very likely he created it because Mundus dying led to it being destroyed. <

- The timeframe on that wouldn't make any sense for it to be created on the Human World while Mundus is sealed

> It shows that the main villain of DMC 2 can't create storms by himself. "so over time that Nero, that is constantly in missions over there, because it's the way to the HQ, didn't have noticed before. Because you want it to be that way"

It is over-time, we have 0 STATEMENTS ABOUT THE TIMEFRAME, and it is likely it was over a period of time. <

- Arius stated the Human World was being Warped. Unless you think it is because of HIS powers, it is Argosax's powers. And about the Echdina, yes, it's probably under a period of time, but not as you put it in words (as it lingered for a long time). Nero was a Saint Knight of the Order, one of the most powerful ones, he needed to go and came back from the Headquarters with speed. It was fast

> Nobody has proven to me that Current Abigail is weaker. This is a headcanon to try and hide the 3-A outlier. <

- If the post was to prove to YOU that Current Abigail was weaker, then you would always win. Current Abigail is weaker because it was Sid using it's power. Unless you think a Mighty and Powerfull Demon controlled his powers as good as a random thug could control. Not that matters, because Abigail is a Top Tier, not a God Tier

> It does matter, the only feat from a God Tier is Tier 7, how is it irrelevant? <

- Because Savior is not a God Tier. Trish could deal with him.

> A distortion which is never clarified and shown and which amounted to demons invading. <

- The Human World is completely Warped is only a statement of Arius about what was happening even before Argosax was being summoned totally to the Human World. It's context, to show Argosax powers

> But yes, the strongest characters have the strongest feats, which are Mundus collapsing an island and Abigail doing continental clouds. <

- Wich is Mundus creating a universe and a random thug using an overlord body doing continental clouds***

> These are THE best reliable feats in all of DMC. <

- In the context of The creator is a troll / The stuff that say that it's Universal is not reliable and The things that confirm it's 3-A stat is nonsensical. Yeah, very good

> No, she says that Abigail is comparable to Mundus, no reason to say he isn't. You once again deny it to hide the actual outlier which is Mundus being 4-A or 3-A. < - Why in-universe mythology only matters to you when it is to support inconsistency? >None of the God Tiers other than Mundus show anything greater than Tier 7 or 6. <
- Yeah, of course. Ignore Pluto. Ignore Arius saying that the Human World was already warped (because of Argosax mere presence). Ignore Sparda sealing the Underworld (and stay with with portals). Keep up with only your interpretation

> Dante in the Anime is stronger than Dante in DMC 1 since it takes place after. That only shows that Dante got strong enough to beat up Mundus level entities easily. <

- Yes. Anime Dante is stronger than DMC 1 Base Dante. But if you say that Anime Dante is stronger than Sparda Trigger Dante, than the discussion can end here, because i would give up on taking seriously something like that. Anime Dante, just like DMC 1 Dante, would not scratch Mundus. That is the reason Sparda (Sword) is powerful, that is why Dante taking on Sparda's form on the final boss is important. That is why he couldn't use trigger with Sparda (Sword). And there is no single evidence that Anime Dante is strongest than Sparda Trigger Dante (In reality, it contradicts everything from top to bottom)

> Because there is 0 proof that Pluto = Mundus and actual evidence that he isn't. < - Really? 0 Proof? Than it's just coincidence that Pluto and Mundus are governors of the Underworld, coincidence that both are powerful, coincidence the description about both trying to dominate the Human World, coincidence that both are defeated by a Demon of Black Wings of Treachery, coincidence that the Castellans worshipped both like equals... We have 0 proof? Really? > I changed my mind, but both translations debunk Universal Mundus. It doesn't matter. < - Nop. Official one supports. And some parts of the scanlation too > Oh wow, don't act like you're a genius and I'm ignoring. I am 100% sure I know more about religions and mythology than you. But this is besides the point. < - Good for me that this is a question of Linguistic and not about religions and mythology. How i am lucky, don't i? > The point, which apparently you missed, is that Agni and Rudra in DMC are not the Hindu Gods, they are just demons with Fire and Wind powers. The names indicate their nature but are not literal.
Also, btw, what does the name Neva have to do with Succubi and Lightning? Absolutely nothing. So the supposed rule that Demon Names = Their nature and power isn't even consistent. <

- Agni means Fire. Rudra means Wind. Where you are trying to get at saying something obvious? They have the power of Wind and Fire because their names MEANS Wind and Fire, and not because Humans Worshipped Hindu gods like that. And about Nevan, she is based (and her name is a transliteration) of an Irish Godess of Havoc. I don't see your point, Nevan doens't contradict in nothing the Name=Power thing, nor can be used as argument

> Stop screaming and personally attacking me. The fact of the matter is we know Mundus and other Demon Names are allegorical but you want to use a character's name to say they are Universal when they have 0 Universal feats. <

- I'm trying to undestand you, just that. Because about the Heaven War story that Arkham told, you supported, but you goes against when he says that a demon has the power based on the name. I'm simply trying to undestand why the random choices

> And this proves what exactly? I meant it is allegorical for the audience cause it evokes imagery and ideas to us. <

- This one was about him being named Mundus is because he reigns the Underworld. I'm showing that it is not that, since he only rules the Underworld because he made an Army and Defeated the old leader

> Wow, Mundus meaning Universe = Mundus being Universal? <

- Nah and Yah. The Arkham (that you supported) said that names are the demon's powers. So Mundus meaning Universe = Mundus being Universal

> No, dude. It is saying that he Rules a Universe, not that he is Universal. The Queen of England isn't Country level. <

- Yeah. Can you show me where in He rules the underworld, Kamiya says that he is not Universal?

Nor the Queen of England is a Demon

> The universe is finite, you need proof that the universe is infinite in DMC, when we don't have we use the size of the Observable Universe as a minimum. <

- Yeah. It is Universe. Point to me. And the Scanlation says it in different form if i remember correctly, so it would be good to check that out

> HE WASN'T, AS EVIDENCED BY THE END OF THE GAME. He needed Preparation to open a Gate to invade the Demon World, and had resurrected and regained his power. <

- The end of the game he BROKE the seal. That was the meaning of all his doings to begin with. He needed preparation to recover his powers. He needing preparation to open de Gate on Mallet Island is a fanfic, as he was completely defeated and just destroyed the Seal by itself. And, following your logic, if the demons can simply teleport to Human World, why Mundus would not do it if the seal was broken...?

> What logic is this. <

- The reason to why DMC 1 happens in the first place, to why Mundus did not appeared in front of Devil May Cry and killed Dante. And the reason to weaker demons being capable of passing to the Human World but bigger ones needing to broke the seal (if he could simply teleport to the Human World, what you said earlier would have no meaning)

> >Seal contains Mundus
>Seal can't contain foddders

???

"The smaller ones phased trough the wholes on the fence, while the bigger one couldn't."

Pure headcanon. <

- Following your logic, every Demon on DMC is free to roam trough Human World without anything to be taken care on its pass. Following this logic, the strongest demons, that only can appear when part of any seal of the underworld is destroyed, Choose to not do anything until the seal is broken to look like he couldn't go out

> The only thing which is laughable is insisting that a supposed Universal Reality Warper needs Prep-Time to open a portal. <

- In your conception of the game, not Hideki's, he needed

> And it was through this gate that Demons invaded Earth, as evidenced By Sparda sealing Temen-Ni-Gru to stop demons from invading. <

- Sparda sealed a portal, a big one in the middle of a bazzilion portals created by humans who wanted Demon Power (like the Original Hellgate on Fortuna). And...? He sealing Temen-Ni-Gru to stop demons from invading don't even mean the way that Mundus had to enter the Human World was trough Temen-Ni-Gru (to tell the truth this is a very hard assumption). There was a lot of others Hellgates created by humans too. Sparda simply shuts them. Where's your point?

> No need, I watched all the cutscenes and I think the story is fresher in my memory than yours. <

- Should be, as i don't remember Mundus ever being mentioned to enter the Human World trough Temen-Ni-Gru

> NO, He sealed all of his power DURING THIS RITUAL, you are literally inverting the order of events and outright lying now. <

- In wich part i am lying? You are using a in-universe mythology wich contradicts itself. Lady says Sparda's power's ended up trapped on the other side because he was a demon. Game says Sparda did it on purpose so he could not become evil. One says he put effort on it, other that it wasn't even on purpose. But let me help you: The only way to unlock Sparda (Sword) is trough Force Edge + The Two Medallions. The Two Medallions were Sparda's powers, it would be impossible he use them BEFORE sealing his powers, as or you use Sparda or you use Force Edge + Two Medallions

> I used literally everything <

- Minus some Arkham, Lady and Game statements

> Because I am not arrogant enough to be incapable of admiting I was wrong and changing my mind. The Scanlation is likely more faithful and literal to the Japanese Original. <

- Why do you think? It is a official cannon version and a fan-made translation. You don't even need to put a balance to see what weights more. Scanlators do amazing jobs, but we are working here with official cannon material

> Subversion? I just analyzed the pattern of Hideki Kamiya and concluded that he isn't reliable. <

- In other words, you analyzed the pattern of a man tormented by troll fans who don't care about what he says and considered that is ALL he is. He redirected questions to a single answer man, he loses his time doing this, of course it wouldn't be just for trolling some fans

> You added nothing new to the table. <

- Devil May Cry 1 released 16 years ago. You wanted anyone to bring anything new?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
But both the lore and the Enemy File states that Savior at 100% has Sparda's power.
Click to expand...
Wich part of it?

It would make sense if Sanctus maintained Sparda on Savior, but Savior still fights against Dante and doens't care in the slightest when Sancuts is not fused with him (and for consequence, Sparda too)
 
"Are you implying that Nero should be upgraded from High 7-C?"

I am not implying anything regarding Nero, to upgrade him or not, it's up to you.

"Nero being above Vergil sounds hilarious."

No, his Judgement Cut End's energy output was likely larger than any of Nero's techniques lol (I know, it might be just a gameplay mechanic xD), so I'm not implying anything about Nero / Vergil, the powerscaling on DMC is a bit confusing.

"But both the lore and the Enemy File states that Savior at 100% has Sparda's power."

Yeah, Sparda's power, Dante or Nero are both had Sparda's blood (with Nero implied to be a blood-related to Vergil), I just said that The Saviour with Nero was not as strong as if he used Dante as a core, both are 100%, but different in power.
 
Dante was 6-A only before and changed to 3-A after

It can change again. What matters is resolving doubts about the franchise, not seeing who stays more time with the stats changed
 
"Yeah, Sparda's power, he absorbed Dante or Nero are both had Sparda power (with Nero implied to be a blood-related to Vergil), I just said that The Saviour with Nero was not as strong as if he used Dante as a core, both are 100%, but different in power."

Nero is outright confirmed to be Vergil's son in an artbook and in DMC 4 Special Edition.
 
Since the changes have been applied and 95% of people agree with the thread, shouldn't this be closed?

The ammount of support is ten times greater than the opposition and includes a significant number of staff members and regular users.

Further discussion sounds rather irrelevant at this point.
 
If you read the text would see that it has more than insults

You are still debating about changes, so i guess is still isn't concluded, right?

And why would Sparda's will of heart change anything?

Like i said, the post is to solve doubts. It makes no sense consider Savior having 100% Sparda's powers, when it's most powerful form has Nero fused with it, and Nero is at max a Quarter Demon
 
Since when does the series establish that Human x Demon hybrids are weaker? Going by Dante, it's the exact opposite. And Vergil states that Nero has a greater potential than himself, Dante and Sparda.
 
Being a Demon-Human hybrid is not the thing

The thing is being 3 parts human and 1 part demon. Where that Vergil statement come from?
 
It comes from his ending in DMC 4 Special Edition. He states that Nero will have more potential than all who came before, or something.
 
We should close this thread, yes.

If somebody wants to assemble all of the insults, we can see if they warrant a block, and how long it should be.
 
He is talking about Nero, and if you look at his shadow you can see it's in the shape of Nero's devil trigger.
 
Antvasima said:
We should close this thread, yes.
If somebody wants to assemble all of the insults, we can see if they warrant a block, and how long it should be.
Click to expand...
Okay, I think everything's concluded anyway. Nero being 6-A is probably too uncertain.
 
The ending scene was so vague, considers Vergil's personality, he doesn't care about anything but power for himself, and yeah, I think he talked about himself.

and the shadow is possibly Vergil's upgraded DT design himself and manifested as a soul in Yamato, as Vergil's voice was echoed inside Nero's head "Power, more power!!" or something like that,

and if you paid attention to the fighting style of the DT spirit with Yamato, it was different than Nero's, as the spirit will use more of a Iado / battou-jutsu technique-esque which was Vergil's signature style. A good example is on Nero vs Berial, banish the flame, turn on DT, use Buster on Berial, the DT's spirit will use Vergil's Yamato Combo C (speedy slashes of repeatedly battou-jutsu.)

but yeah, what you are grasped from the ending is also a possibility.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
He is talking about Nero, and if you look at his shadow you can see it's in the shape of Nero's devil trigger.
Click to expand...
But if Nero is his son, why he talks about a son of Sparda? And to be fair, Nero's Devil Trigger and Vergil's are quite similar. Even if Nero's resemble more Nelo Angelo
 
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