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Destiny: Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation and Nonduality

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This one is a small CRT. The next big one will come out at a later date. Let's get into it.

Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation


More specifically for Deathsongs and the like. After taking another look at the explanation we're given for Deathsongs, it seemed to me that it fits the criteria for Type 1:

The song is death. To hear it is to die. To know the words is mortal. Oh, good point, Eriana, death is just a word, isn't it? A catch-all term for the failure to go on, nothing spiritual, nothing with its own quiddity. We all died once, and it did not prove insurmountable.

But what if what if what if, shhh listen, what if death were reified, described in its totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition? What if She could invoke the ending of anything? - source

This would affect anyone who can use Deathsongs, anyone who resists them, and I guess anyone who can affect those with resistance.

Nonduality for Light and Darkness


After the Type 5 Acausality revisions, I figured I might as well get this one out of the way. I believe the Light and Darkness qualify for Type 1, Aspect 2 Nonduality.

"A special new rule. Something to…" The gardener threw up their hands in exasperation. "I don't know. To reward those who make space for new complexity. A power that helps those who make strength from heterodoxy, and who steer the game away from gridlock. Something to ensure there's always someone building something new. It'll have to be separate from the rest of the rules, running in parallel, so it can't be compromised. And we'll have to be very careful, so it doesn't disrupt the whole game…" - source
"And thus we two became parts of the game, and the laws of the game became nomic and open to change by our influence. And I had only one purpose and one principle in the game. And I could do nothing but continue to enact that purpose, because it was all that I was and ever would be." - source

For the game that is existence, the Light and Darkness are separate from the rest of the rules and can't be compromised by them. This is further shown in the fact that Sword Logic, another flavor of Darkness, isn't bound by, and can kill, axioms that determine reality.

"You have written eleven axioms describing the ascendant places, our throne world. You have announced that you will kill one of these axioms, as Akka would kill the truth, and in mantling Akka you will become a God, as I am." - source
"Listen, Anûk
Anûk, who favors bitter things

Of the eleven axioms, choose one
Of the chosen, spare none
Upon Eir’s attendance, say
Come, Eir, look
This truth is dead" - source

And the Deathsongs I mentioned earlier were derived from the Song of Life, which in turn is merely a fragment of the song of the Traveler (the Gardener), an agent of the Light.

"SONG OF LIFE

The Song was not always a corruption. It began as a gift, stolen from the Gardener. In efforts to understand the unknowable realities of the orb's incredible gifts, a signal was found—a repeating tune, the Song of Creation. Its frequencies were heard across the stars, wherever life's promise took hold. Some among the Ammonites worshipped it. Some among the Hive did the same. Still others sought to understand it that they might cage it, that they might control it—for to control life is to control death. Such ambition was not new; such ambition was as old as understanding. The melody was captured and studied. The frequencies replicated.

But the orb's mysteries were not so easily brought to light. The Song, for all its beauty, did not alone grant life. It was theorized that the Song was not a song at all, but many. That within its refrain, untold rhythms spoke their own truths, free and clear of the whole.

Centuries passed. The Song remained untamed. Life moved on.

SONG OF DEATH

The Choir formed in celebration of the Song. Performances marked the passage of seasons. But the Song's lie eventually began to corrupt the spirit of those who heard its tune. The melody was a reminder. The orb was a catalyst. And the Song was of the orb. Yet, those who embraced the Song were merely instruments and nothing more. Life remained beyond their grasp, while they remained ever in death's. Those of the Choir had given all of themselves. All was not enough.

The First Conductor was assassinated by one who sang an Aria of her own making. She, whose name has been stricken, had found notes hidden in the frequencies. Reversed and mirrored in pitch, she weaved them together and sang her beautiful abomination, until the Conductor wept and bled and screamed and fell. The Stricken fled, fearful of her crime. But others found promise anew in her art. The Stricken was captured and subjected to inquisition so that her song might be understood. This was before Understandings—before most things—when the first notes of a new Song were written." - source

Conclusion


  • Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation for characters that use the power of Deathsongs, Resistance to this for the appropiate characters, and Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation for characters that can affect those with Resistance.
  • Nonduality Type 1, Aspect 2 for the Light and Darkness.

Thank you for your time.

Agree: @deonment, @ShakeResounding, @Setsuna_tenma, @Eseseso, @G33kedzinx, @Iamunanimousinthat, @Planck69, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Spectra_Schiffer, @Theglassman12

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
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Wow a rare Destiny post

Who do scale to Light/Darkness being Nondual since they got no profiles?

Is Sword Logic still a flavor of Darkness given Lucent Brood still practice it (they abandoned Darkness for Light?) and Savathun invented her own version of it that breaks the whole thing?
 
Wow a rare Destiny post

Who do scale to Light/Darkness being Nondual since they got no profiles?

Is Sword Logic still a flavor of Darkness given Lucent Brood still practice it (they abandoned Darkness for Light?) and Savathun invented her own version of it that breaks the whole thing?

No one scales to Nonduality, but there are those that can interact with it.

It is yeah. The Lightbearer members of the brood seem to only practice it as a philosophy though. Savathûn didn't invent her own version, she just created a personal system under the Sword Logic, from which she gained power.
 
It does the opposite. It induces finality via the concept of death. Or is that not what you're referring to?
 
That is addressed in the excerpt itself.

"Oh, good point, Eriana, death is just a word, isn't it? A catch-all term for the failure to go on, nothing spiritual, nothing with its own quiddity. We all died once, and it did not prove insurmountable."

The part after that is why I'm proposing Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation.
 
That is addressed in the excerpt itself.

"Oh, good point, Eriana, death is just a word, isn't it? A catch-all term for the failure to go on, nothing spiritual, nothing with its own quiddity. We all died once, and it did not prove insurmountable."

The part after that is why I'm proposing Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation.
I don’t think this is enough to prove a type 1 concept. That sounds more nominal.
 
'Quiddity' refers to the very essence of something. That's not something you can just write off as nominal.

"But what if what if what if, shhh listen, what if death were reified, described in its totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition? What if She could invoke the ending of anything?"

You also haven't addressed this part. For further context, the ones discussing this are characters with type 1, 3, 4, 7 and 8 immortality and low-godly regeneration. Normal death inducement would never cut it. Especially since other forms of death manipulation are already a thing, but don't get these kinds of descriptions.
 
'Quiddity' refers to the very essence of something. That's not something you can just write off as nominal.

"But what if what if what if, shhh listen, what if death were reified, described in its totality, made autonomous and universal, separate from any context or condition? What if She could invoke the ending of anything?"

You also haven't addressed this part. For further context, the ones discussing this are characters with type 1, 3, 4, 7 and 8 immortality and low-godly regeneration. Normal death inducement would never cut it. Especially since other forms of death manipulation are already a thing, but don't get these kinds of descriptions.

You know what, you are right. That would be enough evidence for death being type 1 concept. And invoking it, would count as a form concept manipulation. Perhaps even “death manipulation via concept manipulation (type 1)”
 
Quick question, is there any other dualities that Light and Darkness itself governs beyond just that one? Because wouldn't it just be Type 1 Aspect 1 given it's just the one Duality it governs?
 
"It'll have to be separate from the rest of the rules, running in parallel, so it can't be compromised. And we'll have to be very careful, so it doesn't disrupt the whole game…"

It's this part that gives Aspect 2. These rules determine all of reality and are superior to even the axioms that govern the Ascendant Plane.
 
They do. For example, the Deathsong was discovered from the Song of Life, which in turn is merely a fragment of the Traveler's Song of Creation.
 
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